Digital BW, The Print

Sorry the first line should have read "Robert and others..."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] will all the beta testers please stand up??


> Robert - don't take this the wrong way - but there seem to be a herd
> (correct collective noun??) of beta testers for various products around,
I'm
> aware of most of the piezo ones, but are you receiving any freebies or
'beta
> tests' from IP? I'm only asking because I know at least one company who
has
> made offers of discounts and freebies to folk for favourable list reviews
> ...
>
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert G. Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Imageprint was Epson Printers was Re: [Digital BW]
2200Printer
>
>
> > Yes, I'm using the mac version with a 1270, 1280 and 7000.  Review
coming
> > shortly.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > On 7/16/02 2:20 PM, "Jeff Magidson" <jeffm@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Shire,Stanley" wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand. Our IP has been excellent (both on the 10000CF and
> > >> the 3000). I have heard from other folks that the Mac version is rife
> > >> with problems but the Win version performs flawlessly. The speed gain
> > >> over the Epson driver is something to behold.200+ MB files begin
> > >> printing in under 10 seconds.
> > >
> > > How about the Desktop versions..... especially for the Mac.. Any out
> > > there tried it yet?? any reports??
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:12 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] will all the beta testers please stand up??


(snip)

> I'm only asking because I know at least one company who has
> made offers of discounts and freebies to folk for favourable list reviews

Julian,

Can you tell us who and what company? It would be nice to know who to beware
of.

Martin

> Julian,
>
> Can you tell us who and what company? It would be nice to know who to
beware
> of.
I was told in confidence - but the company is well-known. The person in
question however, wanted to keep some semblance of  an 'ethical' stance so
that s/he would be able to offer an honest critique.

I'm not trying to be critical, but having hung out on lists for a while and
spent a fortune on inks/papers I'm aware of the power of the internet for
misinformation. I know now for instance that when Jerry says a print is cool
or neutral, for me it is blue. I know this because I've seen his prints. I
know that certain people will praise IJM regardless, whilst others will be
critical. Others will sing the praises of MIS in a similar fashion. I lost a
lot of faith over the infamous greenies/clogs issue. Whilst in person IJM
was very supportive and replaced inks and a cis (i had to bear the cost of
new heads though), the public internet posts were 'no problem etc etc' and
this was matched by a host of folk wading in. It wasn't until this list
started that we started seeing the scale of the problem. Newbies often post
here saying 'what is the best...' and the answers vary widely. Robert, for
instance has said that Hahnemuhle is of a consistent low quality - whilst in
my tests PR is simply the best. All in all there is enough confusion around
and 'differences of aesthetic vision' without hidden commercial interests as
well.

Julian

You must be special, when I called IJM about clogging in one of my 
1160's I was given no help at all, no offer to replace inks, just 
a "Sorry, we can't find any trace of your purchase. 
I use MIS inks on my other printers and will stay with them since 
their customer service is excellent and their prices excellent as 
well.
Are the Beta testors likely to spoil their privilaged postion by not 
saying good things about their IJM inks?

Barry
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > Julian,
> >
> > Can you tell us who and what company? It would be nice to know 
who to
> beware
> > of.
> I was told in confidence - but the company is well-known. The 
person in
> question however, wanted to keep some semblance of  an 'ethical' 
stance so
> that s/he would be able to offer an honest critique.
> 
> I'm not trying to be critical, but having hung out on lists for a 
while and
> spent a fortune on inks/papers I'm aware of the power of the 
internet for
> misinformation. I know now for instance that when Jerry says a 
print is cool
> or neutral, for me it is blue. I know this because I've seen his 
prints. I
> know that certain people will praise IJM regardless, whilst others 
will be
> critical. Others will sing the praises of MIS in a similar 
fashion. I lost a
> lot of faith over the infamous greenies/clogs issue. Whilst in 
person IJM
> was very supportive and replaced inks and a cis (i had to bear the 
cost of
> new heads though), the public internet posts were 'no problem etc 
etc' and
> this was matched by a host of folk wading in. It wasn't until this 
list
> started that we started seeing the scale of the problem. Newbies 
often post
> here saying 'what is the best...' and the answers vary widely. 
Robert, for
> instance has said that Hahnemuhle is of a consistent low quality - 
whilst in
> my tests PR is simply the best. All in all there is enough 
confusion around
> and 'differences of aesthetic vision' without hidden commercial 
interests as

> well.
> 
> Julian

No, but I think it would help if we know who is getting discounts etc...

J
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyfishingusa2002" <tflyfish@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] will all the beta testers please stand up??


> You must be special, when I called IJM about clogging in one of my
> 1160's I was given no help at all, no offer to replace inks, just
> a "Sorry, we can't find any trace of your purchase.
> I use MIS inks on my other printers and will stay with them since
> their customer service is excellent and their prices excellent as
> well.
> Are the Beta testors likely to spoil their privilaged postion by not
> saying good things about their IJM inks?
>
> Barry
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas"
> <julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > > Julian,
> > >
> > > Can you tell us who and what company? It would be nice to know
> who to
> > beware
> > > of.
> > I was told in confidence - but the company is well-known. The
> person in
> > question however, wanted to keep some semblance of  an 'ethical'
> stance so
> > that s/he would be able to offer an honest critique.
> >
> > I'm not trying to be critical, but having hung out on lists for a
> while and
> > spent a fortune on inks/papers I'm aware of the power of the
> internet for
> > misinformation. I know now for instance that when Jerry says a
> print is cool
> > or neutral, for me it is blue. I know this because I've seen his
> prints. I
> > know that certain people will praise IJM regardless, whilst others
> will be
> > critical. Others will sing the praises of MIS in a similar
> fashion. I lost a
> > lot of faith over the infamous greenies/clogs issue. Whilst in
> person IJM
> > was very supportive and replaced inks and a cis (i had to bear the
> cost of
> > new heads though), the public internet posts were 'no problem etc
> etc' and
> > this was matched by a host of folk wading in. It wasn't until this
> list
> > started that we started seeing the scale of the problem. Newbies
> often post
> > here saying 'what is the best...' and the answers vary widely.
> Robert, for
> > instance has said that Hahnemuhle is of a consistent low quality -
> whilst in
> > my tests PR is simply the best. All in all there is enough
> confusion around
> > and 'differences of aesthetic vision' without hidden commercial
> interests as
> > well.
> >
> > Julian
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> No, but I think it would help if we know who is getting discounts etc...

Hmmm...

If anyone cares to give me free or discounted product, I'll be more than
happy to let everyone know.

me too!
j
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moreno Polloni" <mp@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] will all the beta testers please stand up??


> > No, but I think it would help if we know who is getting discounts etc...
>
> Hmmm...
>
> If anyone cares to give me free or discounted product, I'll be more than
> happy to let everyone know.
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> I was told in confidence - but the company is well-known. The person in
> question however, wanted to keep some semblance of  an 'ethical' stance so
> that s/he would be able to offer an honest critique.

Well, if your source is reading this list... I think the only way to "keep
some semblance of an 'ethical' stance" would be to share what they know
about the company of unethical means.

Todd