Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2002-07-11 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 7/11/02 11:39:29 AM, jerryolson@... writes: >If anybody has the new 2200 printer, would they give some first >impressions, and especially let us know the size and price of the >individual inktanks? The only people who have it yet that I know of are testers and reviewers, and they aren't in much of a position to know prices. C. David Tobie Design Cooperative CDTobie@...
2002-07-11 by Bob Frost
Jerry, In the UK the listed price of inktanks for the 2200/2100 is \ufffd8.00 each (~$12), but I don't know the volume. Bob Frost. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > To the group: > > If anybody has the new 2200 printer, would they give some first > impressions, and especially let us know the size and price of the > individual inktanks?
2002-07-11 by Jerry Olson
That would be about $9 here, at Atlex. $63 for the 7 of them. This would be doable for me IF the cartridges were in the one ounce range. If it's the 1/2 ounce as per usual, I would not be interested. jerry Bob Frost wrote:
> > Jerry, > > In the UK the listed price of inktanks for the 2200/2100 is \ufffd8.00 each > (~$12), but I don't know the volume. > > Bob Frost. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > > > To the group: > > > > If anybody has the new 2200 printer, would they give some first > > impressions, and especially let us know the size and price of the > > individual inktanks? > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-12 by jimhayes361
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...> wrote: > That would be about $9 here, at Atlex. $63 for the 7 of them. This > would be doable for me IF the cartridges were in the one ounce range. If > it's the 1/2 ounce as per usual, I would not be interested. > > jerry > I thought the tssphoto folks said that the 2200 would be released tommorow. Epson might tell you more then. Just a guess. Jim H.
2002-07-12 by Larry Roohr
Jerry, The Epson spec's for ink coverage of the 2200 vs the C80 are: black - 628 pages vs 1240 pages and color - 440 pages vs 420 (5% coverage). The C80 black cartridge is $32.99 list and the color is $11.99. Since there are two black cartridges in the 2200 that makes the ink capacity about the same and $60 a set is probably about right if you can buy at a bit better than list price. Larry
-----Original Message----- From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:23 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer That would be about $9 here, at Atlex. $63 for the 7 of them. This would be doable for me IF the cartridges were in the one ounce range. If it's the 1/2 ounce as per usual, I would not be interested. jerry Bob Frost wrote: > > Jerry, > > In the UK the listed price of inktanks for the 2200/2100 is \ufffd8.00 each > (~$12), but I don't know the volume. > > Bob Frost. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > > > To the group: > > > > If anybody has the new 2200 printer, would they give some first > > impressions, and especially let us know the size and price of the > > individual inktanks? > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint Please follow these basic guidelines: - Include your full name with your message. - Include the address of your website, if you have one. - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." - Complete your Yahoo profile. - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-12 by Jerry Olson
Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also? In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so. Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more than a ripoff, they're outrageous. Jerry
2002-07-12 by lrryr@attbi.com
Jerry, Yup, the C80 has individual carts. I know it's expensive, but if Epson can get the going rate, more power to 'em. The C80 does a fantastic job with digital neg printing on pictorico, if the 2200 inks behave the same way I'll just have to belly up to the bar and pay Epson for thier product (for a change, <g>). It seems clear they make thier money on ink, not printers. Larry
> Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also? > > In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so. > Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint > of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more > than a ripoff, they're outrageous. > Jerry > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them > short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2002-07-12 by Robert Morrison
On 7/12/02 9:13 AM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote: > Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also? > > In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so. > Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint > of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more > than a ripoff, they're outrageous. Epson pays for their printer/ink R&D and subsidizes the cost of their printers with their "outrageous" consumable pricing (actually EAM $$$ seems pretty unoutrageous to me!). If they charged you $36 a pint for ink...you wouldn't have a printer to use in 3 years. Robert
2002-07-12 by Jerry Olson
What is the ink capacity of the C80 cartridges????? Thanks, Jerry lrryr@... wrote:
> > Jerry, > > Yup, the C80 has individual carts. I know it's > expensive, but if Epson can get the going rate, more > power to 'em. The C80 does a fantastic job with digital > neg printing on pictorico, if the 2200 inks behave the > same way I'll just have to belly up to the bar and pay > Epson for thier product (for a change, <g>). It seems > clear they make thier money on ink, not printers. > > Larry > > Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also? > > > > In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so. > > Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint > > of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more > > than a ripoff, they're outrageous. > > Jerry > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them > > short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > > "flames." > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > > resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-12 by Steadman Uhlich
very little (wINK) Steadman
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 2:04 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer
What is the ink capacity of the C80 cartridges?????
Thanks, Jerry
lrryr@... wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> Yup, the C80 has individual carts. I know it's
> expensive, but if Epson can get the going rate, more
> power to 'em. The C80 does a fantastic job with digital
> neg printing on pictorico, if the 2200 inks behave the
> same way I'll just have to belly up to the bar and pay
> Epson for thier product (for a change, <g>). It seems
> clear they make thier money on ink, not printers.
>
> Larry
> > Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also?
> >
> > In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so.
> > Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint
> > of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more
> > than a ripoff, they're outrageous.
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them
> > short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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ADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2002-07-12 by Jerry Olson
Just went to atlex to check prices of C80 printer. It apparently does NOT use individual cartridges. Jerry Steadman Uhlich wrote:
> > very little (wINK) > > Steadman > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 2:04 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer > > What is the ink capacity of the C80 cartridges????? > > Thanks, Jerry > > lrryr@... wrote: > > > > Jerry, > > > > Yup, the C80 has individual carts. I know it's > > expensive, but if Epson can get the going rate, more > > power to 'em. The C80 does a fantastic job with digital > > neg printing on pictorico, if the 2200 inks behave the > > same way I'll just have to belly up to the bar and pay > > Epson for thier product (for a change, <g>). It seems > > clear they make thier money on ink, not printers. > > > > Larry > > > Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also? > > > > > > In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so. > > > Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint > > > of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more > > > than a ripoff, they're outrageous. > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other > > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > > - Include your full name with your message. > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them > > > short. > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > > > "flames." > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various > > > resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-12 by Moreno Polloni
> Just went to atlex to check prices of C80 printer. It apparently does > NOT use individual cartridges. Perhaps you should mention this to Epson. They seem to think the C80 has individual carts. But then again, what do they know. They only make the printers :)
2002-07-12 by Steadman Uhlich
I have one and it uses individual carts for all colors. They are small...though maybe a bit bigger than you would have in a combo unit (color cart) for similar sized printer. Also relatively expensive. I needed to buy some and it was about $80 for the set at Office Depot (as I recall). I only use this printer because it is fast and produces good prints on CD labels with a "smudgeproof" ink. I occasionally print other things with it such as a document or two and it is very quick. I also printed some thumb pages on HWM paper but did not like the look (using the fast mode). Perhaps others like the print quality... Steadman
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 2:31 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer
Just went to atlex to check prices of C80 printer. It apparently does
NOT use individual cartridges.
Jerry
Steadman Uhlich wrote:
>
> very little (wINK)
>
> Steadman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 2:04 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer
>
> What is the ink capacity of the C80 cartridges?????
>
> Thanks, Jerry
>
> lrryr@... wrote:
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > Yup, the C80 has individual carts. I know it's
> > expensive, but if Epson can get the going rate, more
> > power to 'em. The C80 does a fantastic job with digital
> > neg printing on pictorico, if the 2200 inks behave the
> > same way I'll just have to belly up to the bar and pay
> > Epson for thier product (for a change, <g>). It seems
> > clear they make thier money on ink, not printers.
> >
> > Larry
> > > Larry, the 2200 has individual carts, does the C80 also?
> > >
> > > In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or
so.
> > > Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a
pint
> > > of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem
more
> > > than a ripoff, they're outrageous.
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls
> and other
> > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> keep them
> > > short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > > "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> resources on the homepage.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
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"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2002-07-12 by rubalong
The C80 DOES use individual cartridges, though not terribly big ones. We have it here and use it for making archives reference pritns, because it's fast and cheap! (used for ID'ing images in the collection - they get written all over). add up the three colour cartridges and they are probably slightly bigger in volume than a similar consumer sized 3in1 on the 870. I don't particularly like it for other work - tend to use the 870 instead for that tim
2002-07-12 by GLewis4457
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Moreno Polloni" <mp@d...> wrote: > > Just went to atlex to check prices of C80 printer. It apparently does > > NOT use individual cartridges. > > Perhaps you should mention this to Epson. They seem to think the C80 has > individual carts. But then again, what do they know. They only make the > printers :) I have one sitting on my desk here, and I can assure you that it DOES have 4 seperate and individual cartridges, one black, one cyan, one magenta, one yellow. Works beautifully. Jerry in Houston
2002-07-12 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 7/12/02 12:09:36 PM, jerryolson@... writes: >In any art store you can get a pint of black india ink for $7 or so. That is about like comparing the price of water to the price of single malt scotch... >Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint >of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more >than a ripoff, they're outrageous. Well, at least you are now comparing it to a blended whiskey... C. David Tobie Design Cooperative CDTobie@...
2002-07-12 by Jerry Olson
Hi Moreno, You're correct... I just went there again. there's 2 places on the site to get the cartridges. In one place they group them, and I thought it was 3 colors in one cartridge. Sorry. But what's more disturbing is the price at Atlex. They have very good prices on anything epson, and THEIR price is $9.00 each, which would probably be $63 for the 6 color cartridges for the 2200, and $26 for the black one. That's $90 for a set of cartridges, plus shipping. WAY too much for me. I'll be ordering the 1280 today. Jerry Moreno Polloni wrote:
> > > Just went to atlex to check prices of C80 printer. It apparently does > > NOT use individual cartridges. > > Perhaps you should mention this to Epson. They seem to think the C80 has > individual carts. But then again, what do they know. They only make the > printers :) > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
CDTobie@... wrote: >In a message dated 7/12/02 12:09:36 PM, jerryolson@... writes: > > > > >>Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint >>of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more >>than a ripoff, they're outrageous. >> >> > >Well, at least you are now comparing it to a blended whiskey... > > > > Come come, Dave... That's not analogous.. We ALL know that EPSON overprices their inks at a level WELL beyond what it costs to produce and market them. They are cost-shifting to recover the real costs of the printer you buy. the 7600, 9600, and 10000 have significantly less per oz prices for ink, not because the ink is cheaper but because EPSON hasn't played the silly cost-shifting game.. It's as if EPSON offered you a single malt scotch for $1 a shot, and then told you "BTW the glass is $10 and can only be used for one shot" It makes people think they are getting a cheap printer when they aren't.. I can quote some old numbers on ink costs per oz. for the 1270 and siblings if you'd like, (with inks that wre cheaper than those in the 2200, estimates on cost of the 1270 inks were between $9600 and $12,000 per gallon - to hell with oil, gold, drugs, or weapons, let's hijack a tanker of Ultrachromes!) but suffice it to say that EPSON charges a minimum of 10 times what others do.. AND BTW: before you say it all goes to R&D some of that "well spent" R&D money goes into designing ways to prevent users from utilizing 3rd party consumables.. Keith [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-07-12 by Richard Sintchak
Friday, July 12, 2002, 4:14:39 PM, Jerry Olson wrote: JO> Hi Moreno, JO> You're correct... I just went there again. there's 2 places on the site JO> to get the cartridges. In one place they group them, and I thought it JO> was 3 colors in one cartridge. Sorry. JO> But what's more disturbing is the price at Atlex. They have very good JO> prices on anything epson, and THEIR price is $9.00 each, which would JO> probably be $63 for the 6 color cartridges for the 2200, and $26 for the JO> black one. That's $90 for a set of cartridges, plus shipping. WAY too JO> much for me. JO> I'll be ordering the 1280 today. JO> Jerry If what Jerry is saying here is true and the output is not so much then I too am worried that this is too much $$$$ when Epson inks are factored in. So let me ask: What good pigment based alternatives are there than the 2000P? Can you buy a 1270/1280, a CIS and some kind if pigment-based color inks that work well? Anyone done this or have suggestions? Best regards, Richard mailto:richard@...
2002-07-13 by Robert Morrison
The last time I checked you can buy the same single malt scotch at Costco in a bigger bottle for about 1/3 the price/oz as you would pay for a smaller bottle at the liquor store. In addition epson gets a lot more money upfront for a 7600 or 9600 than they will for a 2200. It's obvious for the new printers that epson has decided to shift the balance from printer cost to ink cost. Remember at how amazed we were when we heard a 7600 was going to cost $3000 instead of the $5000 they were getting for a 7500 last year? And on the R&D front...it takes a hell of a lot of money to lead in technology...I used to make polymer inks for a living and it was very expensive, time consuming work with someone right behind you trying to rip off your technology at every turn. And remember, Epson isn't out there as a service to us...it has shareholders that expect to get dividend payments. Robert On 7/12/02 4:15 PM, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
> > > CDTobie@... wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/12/02 12:09:36 PM, jerryolson@... writes: >> >> >> >> >>> Makes you wonder about epsons ink prices even more. You can get a pint >>> of MIS inkjet black ink for around $36 or so; epson's prices seem more >>> than a ripoff, they're outrageous. >>> >>> >> >> Well, at least you are now comparing it to a blended whiskey... >> >> >> >> > Come come, Dave... > > That's not analogous.. > > We ALL know that EPSON overprices their inks at a level WELL beyond what > it costs to produce and market them. They are cost-shifting to recover > the real costs of the printer you buy. > > the 7600, 9600, and 10000 have significantly less per oz prices for > ink, not because the ink is cheaper but because EPSON hasn't played the > silly cost-shifting game.. > > It's as if EPSON offered you a single malt scotch for $1 a shot, and > then told you "BTW the glass is $10 and can only be used for one shot" > It makes people think they are getting a cheap printer when they aren't.. > > I can quote some old numbers on ink costs per oz. for the 1270 and > siblings if you'd like, (with inks that wre cheaper than those in the > 2200, estimates on cost of the 1270 inks were between $9600 and $12,000 > per gallon - to hell with oil, gold, drugs, or weapons, let's hijack a > tanker of Ultrachromes!) but suffice it to say that EPSON charges a > minimum of 10 times what others do.. AND BTW: before you say it all > goes to R&D some of that "well spent" R&D money goes into designing ways > to prevent users from utilizing 3rd party consumables.. > > > Keith > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2002-07-13 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Robert Morrison wrote: >\ >And on the R&D front...it takes a hell of a lot of money to lead in >technology...I used to make polymer inks for a living > EPSON doesn't make the pigments or hadn't ever done so AFAIK Robert.. They simply design the carrier and printer engine, etc.. So, they are padding the costs for the parts they don't really make and working hard to prevent consumers from using those same consumables direct from the original manufacturer or other 3rd parties.. I'm not saying they don't have a right to make money. I'm just saying that it would be MORE upfront, more honest, and less anti-competitive if the costs lay where they fell.. Cost-shifting, BTW, or moving decrementing entries from one column to another is EXACTLY the practice WorldCom and other large firms have gotten caught doing. The moving of costs from periodical to capital expenses doesn't change revenue, it just boosts perceived profits... Not much different ethically from making a printer appear much cheaper than it is by artificially depressing the initial purchase price and artificially increasing consumable costs (certainly though EPSON does not hurt as many interests as our new Robber Barons have - EPSON just soaks users for costs that most never even dreamt of).. AND the current EU investigation into pricing and anti-competitive practices by EPSON, HP, and Lexmark proves that others (some with a lot of legal and market clout) agree.. EPSON makes great products which I use happily. They have driven the digital printing prosumer market. That doesn't make every move, even if justifiable, the best ethical choice. Keith [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-07-13 by Robert Morrison
On 7/13/02 2:00 AM, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...> wrote: > > > Robert Morrison wrote: > >> \ >> And on the R&D front...it takes a hell of a lot of money to lead in >> technology...I used to make polymer inks for a living >> > > EPSON doesn't make the pigments or hadn't ever done so AFAIK Robert.. No, but they pay for it...that's how it happens...the person making the ink needs to do the R&D and protect it...whoever uses it, pays for it...in this case Epson...and then the people buying the ink. > They simply design the carrier and printer engine, etc.. > > So, they are padding the costs for the parts they don't really make and > working hard to prevent consumers from using those same consumables > direct from the original manufacturer or other 3rd parties.. That is their business model...and they have every rite to do it that way if they like. > I'm not saying they don't have a right to make money. I'm just saying > that it would be MORE upfront, more honest, and less anti-competitive > if the costs lay where they fell.. Cost-shifting, BTW, or moving > decrementing entries from one column to another is EXACTLY the practice > WorldCom and other large firms have gotten caught doing. The moving of > costs from periodical to capital expenses doesn't change revenue, it > just boosts perceived profits... > Not much different ethically from > making a printer appear much cheaper than it is by artificially > depressing the initial purchase price and artificially increasing > consumable costs (certainly though EPSON does not hurt as many interests > as our new Robber Barons have - EPSON just soaks users for costs that > most never even dreamt of).. This is a completely ridiculous charge. There is absolutely no cost shifting here in the Worldcom or Enron sense. Those cases involved actually accounting fraud (saying things were capital when they were just expenses). Epson sells two products: printers and inks...they decide which way they can best make money...its a simple as that...an incredibly common and LEGAL practice in business. > AND the current EU investigation into > pricing and anti-competitive practices by EPSON, HP, and Lexmark proves > that others (some with a lot of legal and market clout) agree.. > EPSON makes great products which I use happily. They have driven the > digital printing prosumer market. That doesn't make every move, even if > justifiable, the best ethical choice. > Of course in the end this is kind of a ridiculous charge because in the end most of on these lists regularly use 3rd party inks with our Epson printers...I guess the the EU investigators don't know about us. The chip in the end is just an attempt to buy some time to make some money before they are ripped off. If they shifted their pricing structure to the printers...my guess is that none of us would be doing quad printing because a 9000 class printer would be in the Iris price range and we would be stuck trying to use service bureaus to do our printing...I did that for 8 years and I'm really happy that Epson decided to use the pricing structure that they did so that I could afford to put quad inks in a cheap printer. Robert
2002-07-13 by Moreno Polloni
> So, they are padding the costs for the parts they don't really make and > working hard to prevent consumers from using those same consumables > direct from the original manufacturer or other 3rd parties.. > > I'm not saying they don't have a right to make money. I'm just saying > that it would be MORE upfront, more honest, and less anti-competitive > if the costs lay where they fell.. Just out of curiosity, would you or others be willing to pay twice as much for the printer (say $1000 for a printer that currently sells for $500), in order to be able to buy Epson ink for half price? I'd venture a guess that perhaps 90% of Epson's printer sales are to a market segment that doesn't do a whole lot of printing, therefore won't be spending a lot on ink cartridges (maybe two or three cartridge sets per year, and two to three years before printer replacement). This means Epson's current marketing strategy of cheap printers and expensive ink works out well for both Epson and consumers. We've all heard of instances where new low-end printers are being sold for less than the cost of a set of replacement cartridges. With the new 7600/9600 printers, they're priced low enough that a lot of photographers will be able to purchase them. Most photographers are selling their prints, and the cost of consumables would normally be factored into the sale price of the prints. The cost of 220ml ink carts for the 9600 printer aren't too bad. The target audience for the 7600/9600 seems to be oriented to photographers and the like, where print quality is more important than speed. The Epson 10000, on the other hand, is still quite a bit faster than the new series of printers, but it costs almost twice as much. For high volume printers, the cost of inks for the 10000 is lowest of all the Epson printers. I'm not too happy about Epson's high ink prices either, but in all fairness, it seems that they are trying to accommodate all of the different market segments. If you buy one of their consumer printers, you'll be able to buy it cheap, but expect to pay a lot more for ink. For the low print volume consumer market, the high consumable pricing is probably necessary in order for Epson to turn a profit. As you go up the printer scale, you pay proportionately more for the printer, and less for the inks.
2002-07-13 by Moreno Polloni
> But what's more disturbing is the price at Atlex. They have very good > prices on anything epson, and THEIR price is $9.00 each, which would > probably be $63 for the 6 color cartridges for the 2200, and $26 for the > black one. That's $90 for a set of cartridges, plus shipping. WAY too > much for me. > > I'll be ordering the 1280 today. At this point, it's hard to say what the 2000's cost per print will be, when compared to the 2200. There must be some economy gained by using individual carts (vs. the 1280's two cart setup), but that will vary widely with the nature of the images printed. From the initial reports, it looks like the 2200's print quality will be noticeably better than the 1280's. On the other hand, if you want to print with dye inks on the 1280, you can get a CIS and buy dye inks for $8 a bottle. This means a set of six 4oz dye bottles for the 1280 will cost quite a bit less than a single set of 7 colour carts for the 2200. That will bring the 1280 ink costs down to the point where it's not much of a factor, compared to the cost of paper. It will probably be some time before we see a CIS for the 2200.
2002-07-13 by Moreno Polloni
> At this point, it's hard to say what the 2000's cost per print will be, when > compared to the 2200. Oops!! That should read: "At this point, it's hard to say what the 2200's cost per print will be, when compared to the 1280."
2002-07-13 by Jerry Olson
Moreno, Do you know of a third party ink that equals the life of the 1280 Epson inks? This inkset does have very good fading ratings. Also, Does ANYBODY know the exact amount of ink the 2200 or 2100 holds? For certain? If they are one ounce cartridges, that wouldn't be so bad. But if they are 1/2 ounce cartridges, I wouldn't be interested. jerry Moreno Polloni wrote:
> > > But what's more disturbing is the price at Atlex. They have very good > > prices on anything epson, and THEIR price is $9.00 each, which would > > probably be $63 for the 6 color cartridges for the 2200, and $26 for the > > black one. That's $90 for a set of cartridges, plus shipping. WAY too > > much for me. > > > > I'll be ordering the 1280 today. > > At this point, it's hard to say what the 2000's cost per print will be, when > compared to the 2200. There must be some economy gained by using individual > carts (vs. the 1280's two cart setup), but that will vary widely with the > nature of the images printed. > > >From the initial reports, it looks like the 2200's print quality will be > noticeably better than the 1280's. On the other hand, if you want to print > with dye inks on the 1280, you can get a CIS and buy dye inks for $8 a > bottle. This means a set of six 4oz dye bottles for the 1280 will cost quite > a bit less than a single set of 7 colour carts for the 2200. That will bring > the 1280 ink costs down to the point where it's not much of a factor, > compared to the cost of paper. It will probably be some time before we see a > CIS for the 2200. > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-14 by Bob Frost
Jerry, I doubt if they are 1/2 ounce cartridges, since the rest of the world measures volume in litres and millilitres! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Bob Frost. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > But if they are > 1/2 ounce cartridges, I wouldn't be interested.
2002-07-14 by Wendel White
Looking at Epson site the 2200 carts seem to be about the same as C80. The C80 covers 420 pages at 5% and the 2200 covers 440 pages at 5% - the 2200 cart is $1 cheaper at list than the C80. Looks like Epson is lowering the price by about 10%. Wendel
On 7/14/02 5:42 AM, "Bob Frost" <bobfrost@...> wrote: > Jerry, > > I doubt if they are 1/2 ounce cartridges, since the rest of the world > measures volume in litres and millilitres! Sorry, I couldn't resist. > > Bob Frost. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > > >> But if they are >> 1/2 ounce cartridges, I wouldn't be interested.
2002-07-14 by Jerry Olson
Ok, Ok! 30 Milliliters? Nothing smaller!! Jerry > I doubt if they are 1/2 ounce cartridges, since the rest of the world > measures volume in litres and millilitres! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Well, I'm sure glad I don't live in the rest of the world. I'm perfectly contented with our ounce/pound/ton system.
2002-07-14 by Jeff Magidson
Jerry Olson wrote: > > Ok, Ok! 30 Milliliters? Nothing smaller!! > Jerry Jerry.. Jerry.. Jerry... We all love you on here BUT how many times are you going to post a message quibbling, debating and speculating whether the price that Epson charges for ink for the printer you might buy some day is above what you (Jerry Olson) are willing to pay? -Jeff
2002-07-14 by Martin Wesley
Jerry, It is on the same scale as the 1280. 10 to 15ml of usable ink per chamber or cartridge. this is not a high volume printer. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer > Ok, Ok! 30 Milliliters? Nothing smaller!! > Jerry > > > > I doubt if they are 1/2 ounce cartridges, since the rest of the world > > measures volume in litres and millilitres! Sorry, I couldn't resist. > > Well, I'm sure glad I don't live in the rest of the world. I'm perfectly > contented with our ounce/pound/ton system. > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2002-07-15 by Jerry Olson
Jeff you must be new. I'm a tightwad, remember? :) But you are right, I'll drop it.
2002-07-15 by Jerry Olson
Thanks Martin! I ordered another 1280 yesterday. Someday, I hope epson will listen and give the photographers what they really want, but I sincerely doubt it. Jer Martin Wesley wrote:
> > Jerry, > > It is on the same scale as the 1280. 10 to 15ml of usable ink per chamber or > cartridge. this is not a high volume printer. > > Martin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 Printer > > > Ok, Ok! 30 Milliliters? Nothing smaller!! > > Jerry > > > > > > > I doubt if they are 1/2 ounce cartridges, since the rest of the world > > > measures volume in litres and millilitres! Sorry, I couldn't resist. > > > > Well, I'm sure glad I don't live in the rest of the world. I'm perfectly > > contented with our ounce/pound/ton system. > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-15 by Bob Frost
Jerry, OK, but didn't one of 'your' spaceprobes crash into Mars or somewhere because one group of workers were using your old-fashioned system of units, while the others were using the internationally-agreed system? Different units in different countries can cause serious problems, as well as putting the cost of manufacture up! All your scientists use metric units, and although our conversion to metric in the UK is taking some time (waiting for the old generation to die off), eventually it will be simpler. Our 'ounces' were different to your 'ounces'; what a nonsense! The main reason for having two versions of Epson printers (1280/1290, 2100/2200), is just because of the difference in standard paper sizes (back on-list). Bob Frost. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > > Well, I'm sure glad I don't live in the rest of the world. I'm perfectly > contented with our ounce/pound/ton system.
2002-07-15 by Jerry Olson
Bob Frost wrote: > > Jerry, > > OK, but didn't one of 'your' spaceprobes crash into Mars or somewhere > because one group of workers were using your old-fashioned system of units, > while the others were using the internationally-agreed system? Exactly! So if the rest of the world were in our measurement system, it wouldn't have crashed. It's all their fault. :)
2002-07-15 by Julian Thomas
> > So if the rest of the world were in our measurement system, it wouldn't > have crashed. It's all their fault. :) > US foreign policy in a nutshell. (joke, JOKE!) Julian
2002-07-15 by Truman Prevatt
In the early days of satellite programs they tended to use earth radii as a unit distance and seconds as the unit of time. These units resulted in numbers not to small and not too large which gave much less numerical error in the orbital propagation programs on the available computers of the time. Martin built the this particular space craft that crashed in to Mars. They also build satellites for programs that use feet and seconds, kilometers and seconds and earth radii and seconds. In this world there really isn't a standard. Of course there was the British program that wanted to use furlongs and fortnights as the units. And of course the units for velocity would be furlongs per fortnight :-). Truman Jerry Olson wrote:
> > > Bob Frost wrote: > > > > Jerry, > > > > OK, but didn't one of 'your' spaceprobes crash into Mars or somewhere > > because one group of workers were using your old-fashioned system of > units, > > while the others were using the internationally-agreed system? > > Exactly! > > So if the rest of the world were in our measurement system, it wouldn't > have crashed. It's all their fault. :)
2002-07-16 by Bob Frost
Hi Jerry, Lets continue the fun! I seem to remember that the Greeks, Romans, Persians, etc were measuring things accurately long before the US of A was invented. And the measurement system you adopted seems to have been borrowed from us in any case! It's basically our old English system, isn't it? Being a far-sighted, cosmopolitan race, we're moving on and adopting the far-more logical (most people can cope with dividing and multiplying by ten), internationally-agreed system, that will enable Epson printers made in Japan to be used in Japan and most of the world without modification. That's progress!! Perhaps that is why the 2200 is not available in the States yet, but was apparently released here at the beginning of June. Bob Frost. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > Exactly! > > So if the rest of the world were in our measurement system, it wouldn't > have crashed. It's all their fault. :)
2002-07-16 by Jerry Olson
Hi Bob, I ordered another 1280 Sunday. Printing costs are way too much for the 2200. We'll see in a year or so if a CIS is made for the 2200. I can't imagine the prints getting a lot better than the 1280 can make. Jerry Bob Frost wrote:
> > Hi Jerry, > > Lets continue the fun! > > I seem to remember that the Greeks, Romans, Persians, etc were measuring > things accurately long before the US of A was invented. And the measurement > system you adopted seems to have been borrowed from us in any case! It's > basically our old English system, isn't it? > > Being a far-sighted, cosmopolitan race, we're moving on and adopting the > far-more logical (most people can cope with dividing and multiplying by > ten), internationally-agreed system, that will enable Epson printers made in > Japan to be used in Japan and most of the world without modification. That's > progress!! Perhaps that is why the 2200 is not available in the States yet, > but was apparently released here at the beginning of June. > > Bob Frost. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > > > Exactly! > > > > So if the rest of the world were in our measurement system, it wouldn't > > have crashed. It's all their fault. :) > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-07-16 by Robert Morrison
The main advantage of the 2200 is that inks are significantly more light stable than 1280 inks...probably less than ten years for the 1280 vs. 90 years for the 2200 on the fine art matte papers that you would like to print on. I believe that Epson claims that the gamut is about the same. Blacks will be better with 1280 on matte papers. The other major advantage of the 2200 is variable droplet technology...this is what makes toned BW possible without quad inks...but it remains to be seen how the print quality compares to a MIS VM/Roark option. I think you are wise to wait until more of the details emerge, however. A cracked chip, CIS and 3rd party ultrachromes certainly would be helpful. Robert
On 7/16/02 9:18 AM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote: > Hi Bob, > > I ordered another 1280 Sunday. Printing costs are way too much for the > 2200. We'll see in a year or so if a CIS is made for the 2200. > > I can't imagine the prints getting a lot better than the 1280 can make. > > Jerry > > > > > Bob Frost wrote: >> >> Hi Jerry, >> >> Lets continue the fun! >> >> I seem to remember that the Greeks, Romans, Persians, etc were measuring >> things accurately long before the US of A was invented. And the measurement >> system you adopted seems to have been borrowed from us in any case! It's >> basically our old English system, isn't it? >> >> Being a far-sighted, cosmopolitan race, we're moving on and adopting the >> far-more logical (most people can cope with dividing and multiplying by >> ten), internationally-agreed system, that will enable Epson printers made in >> Japan to be used in Japan and most of the world without modification. That's >> progress!! Perhaps that is why the 2200 is not available in the States yet, >> but was apparently released here at the beginning of June. >> >> Bob Frost. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> >> >>> Exactly! >>> >>> So if the rest of the world were in our measurement system, it wouldn't >>> have crashed. It's all their fault. :) >>
2002-07-17 by Bob Frost
Jerry, I'm sure you are right. I'm still using two 1270's and most people can't tell the difference between my A3 (11.7 x 16.5 inches or 297 x 420 mm !!!) prints and those done on a 1280/90. If I had the spare cash, I'd upgrade to a 1290 or 2200 or even a 7600, but there seems little point in throwing away perfectly good printers just for the sake of 'keeping up with the Jones's" (or whatever your equivalent saying is in the States). Bob Frost. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> > Hi Bob, > > I ordered another 1280 Sunday. Printing costs are way too much for the > 2200. We'll see in a year or so if a CIS is made for the 2200. > > I can't imagine the prints getting a lot better than the 1280 can make.
2002-07-17 by Richard Sintchak
Wednesday, July 17, 2002, 3:03:32 AM, Bob Frost wrote: BF> Jerry, BF> I'm sure you are right. I'm still using two 1270's and most people can't BF> tell the difference between my A3 (11.7 x 16.5 inches or 297 x 420 mm !!!) BF> prints and those done on a 1280/90. If I had the spare cash, I'd upgrade to BF> a 1290 or 2200 or even a 7600, but there seems little point in throwing away BF> perfectly good printers just for the sake of 'keeping up with the Jones's" BF> (or whatever your equivalent saying is in the States). BF> Bob Frost. Bob, Feel even better about keeping your 1270. I attended a workshop taught by George Lepp and John Shaw earlier this year. They mentioned that the main difference between the 1270 and the 1280/90 was that the 1280/90 could print at 2880dpi and that it could print to the edges. Now the latter could be something someone wants which could justify the "upgrade" to the later printers, however, both George and John said that the minuscule difference between printing at the 2880dpi to the 1440dpi was barely detectable and certainly not worth the price of upgrading. In fact George still recommended printing at 1440dpi even if you have the 1280/90 as he felt the slower printing time did not justify the tiny difference in print quality. They did extensive testing and unless you got out the magnifying glass felt no difference could be seen. I'm sure some people (especially 1280/90 owners) will say they can see a difference, and I'm not trying to start a flame war. Just stating what I heard from two very reputable and talented pros. Best regards, Richard mailto:richard@...
2002-07-17 by Peter Lindman
I have a 1270 in addition to a couple of 1280s. In trying to keep my system as flexible as possible regarding inksets I'd like to be able to use the 1270 with the Piezo driver, even though it is not officially supported. Has anyone had success renaming a 1270 so that the Piezo plugin recognizes it? I'm on a Macand I've read Nij's explanation for doing this on a PC. But that doesn't seem to offer much help for the Mac folks. Thanks Peter Lindman
2002-07-17 by Todd Flashner
on 7/17/02 3:55 PM, Peter Lindman wrote: > I have a 1270 in addition to a couple of 1280s. In trying to keep my system > as flexible as possible regarding inksets I'd like to be able to use the > 1270 with the Piezo driver, even though it is not officially supported. Has > anyone had success renaming a 1270 so that the Piezo plugin recognizes it? > I'm on a Macand I've read Nij's explanation for doing this on a PC. But > that doesn't seem to offer much help for the Mac folks. > Thanks > Peter Lindman Though not in the context of the Piezo driver per se, I have heard of people using the 1280 driver (free download from Epson) to drive a 1270, so it might work in this case too. Todd