Digital BW, The Print

I currently print b&w with an epson 1200 using MIS VM (epson driver) 
inks with awesome results (Paul, latest curves are GREAT!). I've been 
printing a lot lately on 13x19 EAM but find that i am fighting the 
size. I end up with approx 12x16 from my 6x7 negs. I like the idea of 
printing on 16x20 -- so i guess that leaves the epson 3000.  So can i 
get similar printing quality as my 1200? Do i need to use piezo 
software? What about paper, is EAM available in 16x20?

Thanks for any advice.

Cheers,
Peter
www.pixelmapper.com

If you get a good 3000, it's an exceptional printer.  My two have been more
than realizable, and the Piezo images from them are superb, but slow...  I
have no intention of changing printers for a while, and yes, the 17x22 image
size from this printer can be simply nothing short of amazing.

Austin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: petervongaza [mailto:pvg@...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 12:05 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 3000 opinions
>
>
> I currently print b&w with an epson 1200 using MIS VM (epson driver)
> inks with awesome results (Paul, latest curves are GREAT!). I've been
> printing a lot lately on 13x19 EAM but find that i am fighting the
> size. I end up with approx 12x16 from my 6x7 negs. I like the idea of
> printing on 16x20 -- so i guess that leaves the epson 3000.  So can i
> get similar printing quality as my 1200? Do i need to use piezo
> software? What about paper, is EAM available in 16x20?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
> www.pixelmapper.com

Austin,

I recently purchased a new Epson 3000 and, like you, I appreciate the quality 
of its prints using the Piezo software.  Slow yes, but the quality is worth the 
wait, particularly if you are not pressed by production demands.

For the most part, I have been using Epson Archival (Enhanced) Matte 
192gsm paper and H. Photo Rag 188gsm.  

Have you tried using a heavier fine art paper such as the Somerset Photo 
Enhanced 225gsm or maybe the H. Photo Rag 308gsm?  My understanding 
is that the printer would have trouble using heavier papers such as these, 
although I haven't heard that directly from anyone using the printer.

Any thoughts or recommendations based on your experience would be 
appreciated.

Jerry Campbell




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Austin Franklin" <darkroom@i...> 
wrote:

> If you get a good 3000, it's an exceptional printer.  My two have been more
> than realizable, and the Piezo images from them are superb, but slow...  I
> have no intention of changing printers for a while, and yes, the 17x22 image
> size from this printer can be simply nothing short of amazing.
> 
> Austin
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: petervongaza [mailto:pvg@y...]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 12:05 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 3000 opinions
> >
> >
> > I currently print b&w with an epson 1200 using MIS VM (epson driver)
> > inks with awesome results (Paul, latest curves are GREAT!). I've been
> > printing a lot lately on 13x19 EAM but find that i am fighting the
> > size. I end up with approx 12x16 from my 6x7 negs. I like the idea of
> > printing on 16x20 -- so i guess that leaves the epson 3000.  So can i
> > get similar printing quality as my 1200? Do i need to use piezo
> > software? What about paper, is EAM available in 16x20?
> >
> > Thanks for any advice.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> > www.pixelmapper.com

You should't have any problem with the 225 Sumerset Enhanced. I've run a 
couple hundred 17x22 through my 3000.  The 308 photo rag I would have to say 
probably won't fly. But the 188 Photrag should be fine.
Steven Meyers
In a message dated 8/24/2002 1:03:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
impact4u@... writes:


> Have you tried using a heavier fine art paper such as the Somerset Photo 
> Enhanced 225gsm or maybe the H. Photo Rag 308gsm?  My understanding 
> is that the printer would have trouble using heavier papers such as these, 
> although I haven't heard that directly from anyone using the printer.
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,

Thanks for your response.  Sounds like Somerset Enhanced does a good job 
for you.  I'll give it a try to see if it works with my current project.  

One more point.  Do you use Piezo software with Somerset Enhanced?  The 
new PiezoTone inks?  If so, do you find the profiles to be satisfactory when 
moving from one paper to another.  I am finding that  with PiezoTone ST the 
same file prints with significant  differences in the output, i.e., the print, 
depending on whether I use Archival Matte, H. Photo Rag, or Museo ( Museo 
prints are much too heavy, although the paper can be made to look as good 
as the other two -- EAM and Photo Rag are much more consistent, although 
Photo Rag seems a little more contrasty).  

I was under the impression that the profiles were suppose to narrow the 
differences between the papers much more than they actually do.  Perhaps I 
am expecting too much.  But it would be nice if it were possible to go from one 
paper to the next without too much additional difficulty.  

I have no quarrel with the final output, however.  I agree with Austin.  The 
results on the Epson 3000 can be very stunning indeed with the Piezo 
system.

Jerry Campbell



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., sdmey4@a... wrote:
> You should't have any problem with the 225 Sumerset Enhanced. I've run a 
> couple hundred 17x22 through my 3000.  The 308 photo rag I would have 
to say 
> probably won't fly. But the 188 Photrag should be fine.
> Steven Meyers
> In a message dated 8/24/2002 1:03:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> impact4u@m... writes:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried using a heavier fine art paper such as the Somerset Photo 
> > Enhanced 225gsm or maybe the H. Photo Rag 308gsm?  My 
understanding 

> > is that the printer would have trouble using heavier papers such as these, 
> > although I haven't heard that directly from anyone using the printer.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jerry,

> Have you tried using a heavier fine art paper such as the Somerset Photo
> Enhanced 225gsm or maybe the H. Photo Rag 308gsm?

No, I stick to EHWM only.

> My understanding
> is that the printer would have trouble using heavier papers such
> as these,
> although I haven't heard that directly from anyone using the printer.
>
> Any thoughts or recommendations based on your experience would be
> appreciated.

I have heard that rear feeding those works fine.  Set the printer up far
enough from something that you can add a board in the rear to support the
paper...  Check the archives.

Regards,

Austin

> I have no quarrel with the final output, however.  I agree with
> Austin.  The
> results on the Epson 3000 can be very stunning indeed with the Piezo
> system.

Jerry,

I have tried Piezo on an 1160, that I specifically bought for Piezo when the
3000 had banding problems...before the driver was updated to eliminate
them...and I really hated the 1160.  The 3000 gave me FAR better output.

Regards,

Austin

Yes I do use Piezo software but with the original sundance Inks. I did take a 
file over to a friends Piezotone Warm neutral 3000 and even with these two 
inks there where some minor differances. My files also print with minor 
differances on My MIS FS 7000 vs the original piezo inks.  My 3000 doesn't 
get much use anymore, and , I can add I ran 100's of sheets of 310gsm Orwell 
through before it started a skewing problem(top slight different than the 
bottom in size) I think I strethched the transport mechanism running all that 
thick paper through it. I plan to put the new Selinium toned inks in the 3000 
but so far have avoided it, as I'm not in the mood for tweaking my files 
again. But then again I plan to set it up for new work only, so that won't be 
a problem. I have not heard of anyone getting a great match using the same 
profiles and different cone inksets.
Steve Meyers
n a message dated 8/24/2002 3:22:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
impact4u@... writes:


> Thanks for your response.  Sounds like Somerset Enhanced does a good job 
> for you.  I'll give it a try to see if it works with my current project.  
> 
> One more point.  Do you use Piezo software with Somerset Enhanced?  The 
> new PiezoTone inks?  If so, do you find the profiles to be satisfactory 
> when 
> moving from one paper to another.  I am finding that  with PiezoTone ST the 
> 
> same file prints with significant  differences in the output, i.e., the 
> print, 
> depending on whether I use Archival Matte, H. Photo Rag, or Museo ( Museo 
> prints are much too heavy, although the paper can be made to look as good 
> as the other two -- EAM and Photo Rag are much more consistent, although 
> Photo Rag seems a little more contrasty).  
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry,

I am unable to use the Photo Rag 308 in my 3000. It just won't feed properly
because of its thickness. This results in banding problems and a shortened
image.

The 188 and its cousin, the Duo version, work just fine in this printer.
Museo works pretty well once it's loaded, but getting it to load properly is
often a problem of late. It may be time for me to clean the feed rollers
again.

Tom Keesling
Intelligent Design, Inc.

Peter,

My serious printing is with a 3000, PC, and the MIS VM-sepia inkset.  I have
the Piezo software, but prefer the variable-tone/mix inkset and the Epson
driver. I feed EAM into the machine (sliced from a roll) and never have
problems.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_______________________________________

  -----Original Message-----
  From: petervongaza [mailto:pvg@...]
  Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:05 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 3000 opinions


  I currently print b&w with an epson 1200 using MIS VM (epson driver)
  inks with awesome results (Paul, latest curves are GREAT!). I've been
  printing a lot lately on 13x19 EAM but find that i am fighting the
  size. I end up with approx 12x16 from my 6x7 negs. I like the idea of
  printing on 16x20 -- so i guess that leaves the epson 3000.  So can i
  get similar printing quality as my 1200? Do i need to use piezo
  software? What about paper, is EAM available in 16x20?

  Thanks for any advice.

  Cheers,
  Peter
  www.pixelmapper.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jon Zax <lotus@i...> wrote:
snip
> One can very successfully print on heavy papers, I regularly print on 
> 310 GEB and 308 photorag with no problems.

You are a lucky man. I have 2 3000's, neither will take those papers no matter how fed. Actually, in my case, skewing was 
worse without the pizza wheels. Experience seems to vary a lot with this problem.
Uh, wanna trade?
Tyler

My 3000 has been dutifully printing quad B&W prints for a long time, and 
I have two observations.

the "paddle" does tell the printer that the ink is out, not just that 
there is a cartridge in place.
Ink consumption in quad printing is significantly different than the 
color ink use that the printer was designed for
I have pulled carts that the printer thought was low, shook them to feel 
that there was still significant amount
of ink, reinserted the cart, fooling the printer into believing there 
was a new cart, and having the indicator light come
on when the cart was actually empty.

One can very successfully print on heavy papers, I regularly print on 
310 GEB and 308 photorag with no problems.
Feed in from the manual feed slot, not even necessarily the "straight" 
in through the back path, but you must
pull the "pizza wheels" to do so.

no "through the hat" theory here, just actual experience.


J.Z.

Hi Jon,

> the "paddle" does tell the printer that the ink is out, not just that
> there is a cartridge in place.

I agree that it doesn't tell it the cartridge is in place, that is a
separate sensor, but I do not agree it tells the printer the ink is out.  I
believe it tells the printer the ink is low.

> Ink consumption in quad printing is significantly different than the
> color ink use that the printer was designed for
> I have pulled carts that the printer thought was low, shook them to feel
> that there was still significant amount
> of ink, reinserted the cart, fooling the printer into believing there
> was a new cart, and having the indicator light come
> on when the cart was actually empty.

I don't believe that (ink level indication) is ink type dependant (quad vs
color), since the printer really doesn't know what cartridge is in there, it
simply knows what the sensor tells it on the side, as well as what it has
used as far as number of droplets goes...

BTW, are you talking about a 3000, and if so, was the light blinking or
solid?  I've printed quite a bit after the light has come "on" (without
removing the cartridge), now, whether that was blinking or solid, I don't
remember...but will pay attention next time.

Austin