Digital BW, The Print

Jon,

Like you I favor 4x5 with a goodly amount of MF (6x7) and 35mm. I jumped in
almost 2 years ago. My own opinion is that it arrived awhile back. Will it
get better and easier, you bet. Is it a tough and uncomfortable transition?
It is for many and was for me. Remember it is a new and different medium
from silver prints and it does not look the same. If you like silver stay
with silver. If you want to try something different give digital B&W prints
a try.

Will it ever be a no-brainer where you just push the button and get an Ansel
Adams quality print? No way! Will you need to align your printer like you
aligned your enlarger? Yep. Can things go wrong, make bad prints, have
computer problems? Without a doubt. Will you still need a year or two to get
your digital printing skills up to matching you darkroom work? Very likely.
How long did it take you to develop a level of darkroom skills you were
proud of? Are you willing to go through some of that process all over that
again?

The near future probably does not hold anything from the big companies
beyond the Espon 2200, 5600 and 9600 until the next product cycle in say 18
months. All the big money is in color printing though, so it is doubtful
that Epson or one of the other big companies will do a dedicated B&W
printer. In the meantime there will probably be some new inks and software
before Christmas. Should see aftermarket grayscale inks for the 2200, etc.
once the cartridge chips have been copied. This is a tiny market at this
point and what gets done will be more a function of economics rather than
what is technically possible.

The hard part is that this is so small you have little chance to walk into a
gallery or museum to see examples of the incredible work that is being
produced.

I think that you need some sense of adventure and an expectation of hard
work if you want to take this road.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "nedbuntline2002" <jon.judson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?


> I've had a darkroom for quite some time, and I'm rather proficient at
> the old techniques.  But I'm getting shoved (mostly by publications)
> into thinking about digital.  I've made the decision that I would
> like to give it a try, I'm just not sure if now is the time.
>
> It seems that printing is not quite there yet for black and white.
> Even the latest Epson 2200 line is still just a little bit away from
> perfection.  I do almost all 4X5, with some 35mm thrown in -- and
> nearly all of it is black and white.
>
> I guess my question is this.  With the technology advancing rapidly,
> and the latest equipment still just slightly behind the curve, would
> it make more sense to wait a year?  Are there any rumors about
> perfecting digital printing for black and white?  What do you think
> is on the near horizon in this realm?
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Martin Wesley wrote:

 >The hard part is that this is so small you have little chance to walk 
into a
 >gallery or museum to see examples of the incredible work that is being
 >produced.
 >
 >
 >
 >
Which is a VERY STRONG argument to participating in one of the print
exchanges making the rounds.  In the case of those not ready to make the
leap UNTIL they see some prints..  We have created a travelling
portfolio / flying gallery that will be composed of prints from the 13 x
19  (Super A3/B3+) print exchange the x7xGroup is hosting in conjunction
with InkjetGoodies..  (shameless plug mode off)

Unfortunately, the 13 x 19 exchange is NOT solely B&W work...  If you
would prefer to review ONLY B&W imagery, I'd strongly recommend
participating in Tom O'Connell's A4/8x10/8.5x11 B&W print exchange..


Keith


</div>

The problem with inkjet v. silver is that inkjet really needs a matte paper
and this causes problems. Before giving up - try a semimatte paper (Kodak
Ultima) with a BW pig inkset and then spray using a fixative. This is the
closest i've come.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "nedbuntline2002" <jon.judson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 5:11 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?


> I've had a darkroom for quite some time, and I'm rather proficient at
> the old techniques.  But I'm getting shoved (mostly by publications)
> into thinking about digital.  I've made the decision that I would
> like to give it a try, I'm just not sure if now is the time.
>
> It seems that printing is not quite there yet for black and white.
> Even the latest Epson 2200 line is still just a little bit away from
> perfection.  I do almost all 4X5, with some 35mm thrown in -- and
> nearly all of it is black and white.
>
> I guess my question is this.  With the technology advancing rapidly,
> and the latest equipment still just slightly behind the curve, would
> it make more sense to wait a year?  Are there any rumors about
> perfecting digital printing for black and white?  What do you think
> is on the near horizon in this realm?
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

In a message dated 9/2/02 11:12:13 PM, jon.judson@... writes:

>I guess my question is this.  With the technology advancing rapidly, 
>and the latest equipment still just slightly behind the curve, would 
>it make more sense to wait a year?

You are jumping from the tortoise-years of photography to the mayfly-years of 
digital. There will always to something newer and better, and it won't take 
even a year for it to get here. But you have to jump in and get your feet wet 
at some point, or the world will pass you by.

  Are there any rumors about 
>perfecting digital printing for black and white?

Sure, and there have been for years,  and there will be in the future. Even 
as someone who sometimes gets to work with the rumors, its impossible to know 
what the practical value of a new product will be in the marketplace until 
well after its released. Various applications, RIPs, drivers, and devices 
were going to be the answer to these issues, and they have answered some of 
the issues, as well as asking new questions in the process. Keep in mind that 
digital won't stop at replacing your darkroom; it moved immediately into 
stuff the darkroom never dreamed of.

  What do you think 
>is on the near horizon in this realm?

More, better, faster, cheaper, and bigger; for starters... but the person who 
started out with an Epson 3000 four years ago, and the PressReady RIP for it 
three years ago, and Small Gamut inks for it two years ago, and a Piezo 
driver and Cone inks last year, and learned a lot about scanning, processing, 
and the assorted printing methods in the process, is way ahead of you, and 
just hoping it will all become pushbutton for you so you won't have to learn 
any of it is not a good attitude if you really want to work with the new 
medium. If you just want to think of it as the old medium, then you've missed 
the point, and it will all continue to pass you by. 

So sign up for a 2200, jump in, and start swimming.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., CDTobie@a... wrote:

"just hoping it will all become pushbutton for you so you won't have 
to learn any of it is not a good attitude if you really want to work 
with the new medium."

A couple of the responses have reflected on this.  This is not at all 
what I'm refering to with my inquiry.  I spend many hours making my 
darkroom prints right, and I don't expect digital to be any less work 
intensive.

My main issue here is the comparison of the technologies.  I don't 
want to make the leap to digital unless I can get prints of 
comparable quality to the black and white silver ones I'm producing 
now.  Since I do have a darkroom already, I have the luxury of 
waiting.  So to my question: Is digital there yet?  And if not, how 
close is it really to being there?

In a message dated 9/3/02 8:35:04 AM, jon.judson@... writes:

>Since I do have a darkroom already, I have the luxury of 
>waiting.  So to my question: Is digital there yet? 

Digital will never be "there"; it will always be some place else... but that 
someplace else has surpassed the darkroom in many areas and is fast matching 
it in many others.

 And if not, how 
>close is it really to being there?

Close enough to get involved now. Since the learning curve will require some 
time, now is definately the time.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

Ned,

With the right software, curves and inksets, digital printing has
already surpassed darkroom printing in sharpness, highlight detail,
shadow detail and all around quality.

There are so many things available now, you might want to start looking
into them.

jerry

Join one of the many print exhanges and you'll see what is possible.

nedbuntline2002 wrote:

> 
> I've had a darkroom for quite some time, and I'm rather proficient at
> the old techniques.  But I'm getting shoved (mostly by publications)
> into thinking about digital.  I've made the decision that I would
> like to give it a try, I'm just not sure if now is the time.
>

You can already get better prints than you ever could in the darkroom.
Digital is here.  Why not try a print exchange?

Jerry

> My main issue here is the comparison of the technologies.  I don't
> want to make the leap to digital unless I can get prints of
> comparable quality to the black and white silver ones I'm producing
> now.  Since I do have a darkroom already, I have the luxury of
> waiting.  So to my question: Is digital there yet?  And if not, how
> close is it really to being there?
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

----- Original Message -----

From: "nedbuntline2002" <jon.judson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., CDTobie@a... wrote:
>
> "just hoping it will all become pushbutton for you so you won't have
> to learn any of it is not a good attitude if you really want to work
> with the new medium."
>
> A couple of the responses have reflected on this.  This is not at all
> what I'm refering to with my inquiry.  I spend many hours making my
> darkroom prints right, and I don't expect digital to be any less work
> intensive.

Jon,

Good, you won't be disappointed in the hard work department. <G> It takes me
just about as long to get to a finished print with inkjet as it does in the
darkroom. This will probably get shorter as I continue to develop my
Photoshop skills.
>
> My main issue here is the comparison of the technologies.  I don't
> want to make the leap to digital unless I can get prints of
> comparable quality to the black and white silver ones I'm producing
> now.  Since I do have a darkroom already, I have the luxury of
> waiting.  So to my question: Is digital there yet?  And if not, how
> close is it really to being there?

Inkjet will never be silver. Inkjet does equal silver printing as an
excellent photographic medium both in its results and the power of digital
editing surpasses traditional darkroom work by an immense margin. (Apologies
to C.D. but I think the 2200 is second string quality based on the results I
have seen so far when it comes to inkjet B&W but maybe I will see something
to change my mind.)

However, if you do want silver and digital, there are workflows to get you
there. The first is Dan Burkholder's method of generating digital contact
prints. You can see examples of this from the special edition prints sold by
Lens Work. I have two and I cannot distinguish them from enlarged prints.
You can also have your digital files output to systems like LightJet for
color silver output. There are film recorders that will make you an
enlarging negative from your digital file.

The main drawback is that these methods involve working with a service
bureau since some of the equipment needed is not affordable. Burkholder's
method using chromogenic negatives from inkjet might be workable now but I
have not seen any results with silver to be able to judge.

Martin Wesley

Hi I'm a newbie to the group and I'm interested in printing in b&w.
There seems to be a lot of things that I need to catch up with in terms
of information.  Would you be willing to make recommendations on how to
get started?   Create a list of "Option 1" and "Option 2" etc.  Option
1: Beginners; low cost.  Option 2: Intermediate; good upgrade to
beginners list.  Option 3: Professional: High quality, medium to deep
pockets.  Get the idea?  How does one get started?  I understand that
there will plenty of opinions on what is good and what is not.  But that
is what the group is for right?  May be our group caretaker "Modulator"
can post a library of information like this so new members can have a
way of catching up.  Also have our hard core guru's post tips (do's and
don'ts or "white papers") that support the list on file.  Also look into
having a monthly or quarterly "Class session" that continues to support
what on the list.  Perhaps this can spur a yearly photo contest within
the group.

I'm just thinking out loud, it would be great to have a group generating
a lot of ideas to help people enjoy their hobby or craft rather than
just answering problems.  At least I think so!

New to DigitalB&WThePrint,
Graywolf

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:10 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?

Ned,

With the right software, curves and inksets, digital printing has
already surpassed darkroom printing in sharpness, highlight detail,
shadow detail and all around quality.

There are so many things available now, you might want to start looking
into them.

jerry

Join one of the many print exhanges and you'll see what is possible.

nedbuntline2002 wrote:
> 
> I've had a darkroom for quite some time, and I'm rather proficient at
> the old techniques.  But I'm getting shoved (mostly by publications)
> into thinking about digital.  I've made the decision that I would
> like to give it a try, I'm just not sure if now is the time.
>


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Matt,

That is a great idea and one that has been kicked around before but nothing
has come of it. I will take a shot and the other experts can kick in.

My one guideline for what follows assumes getting items that can be had new
or at least refurbed, that you already have a computer and Photoshop, big
assumptions but we need to start somewhere.

"Budget" System:
Printer - Epson 1280 (very few photographers will want to be limited to an
8,5" wide printer.) If you already have an old printer you want to use then
that would be the way to go if possible but not all printers are supported.
Ink - MIS-VM, Buy virgin carts, bulk ink and hand load until you can afford
a CIS.
Workflow - RGB Separation curves, Paul Roark's, Tyler Boley's, your own
Scanner: Epson 2450

Medium Cost:
Printer - Epson 1280
Ink - PiezoTone or MIS-FS
Workflow - Piezo/R9 plugin
Scanner: Epson 1680 for medium and large format and/or a 35mm film scanner.

Expensive:
Set up both the Budget and the Medium systems plus a 3000 for 17x22 along
with a medium format film scanner.

Very Expensive:
To all of the above add a drum scanner and a wide format Epson printer with
a RIP.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Farias" <M_Farias@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?


> Hi I'm a newbie to the group and I'm interested in printing in b&w.
> There seems to be a lot of things that I need to catch up with in terms
> of information.  Would you be willing to make recommendations on how to
> get started?   Create a list of "Option 1" and "Option 2" etc.  Option
> 1: Beginners; low cost.  Option 2: Intermediate; good upgrade to
> beginners list.  Option 3: Professional: High quality, medium to deep
> pockets.  Get the idea?  How does one get started?  I understand that
> there will plenty of opinions on what is good and what is not.  But that
> is what the group is for right?  May be our group caretaker "Modulator"
> can post a library of information like this so new members can have a
> way of catching up.  Also have our hard core guru's post tips (do's and
> don'ts or "white papers") that support the list on file.  Also look into
> having a monthly or quarterly "Class session" that continues to support
> what on the list.  Perhaps this can spur a yearly photo contest within
> the group.
>
> I'm just thinking out loud, it would be great to have a group generating
> a lot of ideas to help people enjoy their hobby or craft rather than
> just answering problems.  At least I think so!
>
> New to DigitalB&WThePrint,
> Graywolf
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:10 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?
>
> Ned,
>
> With the right software, curves and inksets, digital printing has
> already surpassed darkroom printing in sharpness, highlight detail,
> shadow detail and all around quality.
>
> There are so many things available now, you might want to start looking
> into them.
>
> jerry
>
> Join one of the many print exhanges and you'll see what is possible.
>
> nedbuntline2002 wrote:
> >
> > I've had a darkroom for quite some time, and I'm rather proficient at
> > the old techniques.  But I'm getting shoved (mostly by publications)
> > into thinking about digital.  I've made the decision that I would
> > like to give it a try, I'm just not sure if now is the time.
> >
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I'd add in a "Beginner/Dabbler/Curious" system:
Printer - A4 Epson 810/820 or 890 (not everyone can afford an A3 printer at
first!)
Ink - standard Epson, maybe dabbling with other inksets later (you can
actually get OK prints from straight black Epson inks)
 
Also, consider buying a second-hand printer if you're a beginner, such as an
Epson 1160 or 1270, and using the special B&W inksets with it. If you're
lucky, it might even come with a CIS already set up.
 
Darren.
www.pool-room.com <http://www.pool-room.com> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2002 2:30 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?


Matt,

That is a great idea and one that has been kicked around before but nothing
has come of it. I will take a shot and the other experts can kick in.

My one guideline for what follows assumes getting items that can be had new
or at least refurbed, that you already have a computer and Photoshop, big
assumptions but we need to start somewhere.

"Budget" System:
Printer - Epson 1280 (very few photographers will want to be limited to an
8,5" wide printer.) If you already have an old printer you want to use then
that would be the way to go if possible but not all printers are supported.
Ink - MIS-VM, Buy virgin carts, bulk ink and hand load until you can afford
a CIS.
Workflow - RGB Separation curves, Paul Roark's, Tyler Boley's, your own
Scanner: Epson 2450

Medium Cost:
Printer - Epson 1280
Ink - PiezoTone or MIS-FS
Workflow - Piezo/R9 plugin
Scanner: Epson 1680 for medium and large format and/or a 35mm film scanner.

Expensive:
Set up both the Budget and the Medium systems plus a 3000 for 17x22 along
with a medium format film scanner.

Very Expensive:
To all of the above add a drum scanner and a wide format Epson printer with
a RIP.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
<http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html> 



----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Farias" <M_Farias@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?


> Hi I'm a newbie to the group and I'm interested in printing in b&w.
> There seems to be a lot of things that I need to catch up with in terms
> of information.  Would you be willing to make recommendations on how to
> get started?   Create a list of "Option 1" and "Option 2" etc.  Option
> 1: Beginners; low cost.  Option 2: Intermediate; good upgrade to
> beginners list.  Option 3: Professional: High quality, medium to deep
> pockets.  Get the idea?  How does one get started?  I understand that
> there will plenty of opinions on what is good and what is not.  But that
> is what the group is for right?  May be our group caretaker "Modulator"
> can post a library of information like this so new members can have a
> way of catching up.  Also have our hard core guru's post tips (do's and
> don'ts or "white papers") that support the list on file.  Also look into
> having a monthly or quarterly "Class session" that continues to support
> what on the list.  Perhaps this can spur a yearly photo contest within
> the group.
>
> I'm just thinking out loud, it would be great to have a group generating
> a lot of ideas to help people enjoy their hobby or craft rather than
> just answering problems.  At least I think so!
>
> New to DigitalB&WThePrint,
> Graywolf
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:10 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Is Now Really The Time?
>
> Ned,
>
> With the right software, curves and inksets, digital printing has
> already surpassed darkroom printing in sharpness, highlight detail,
> shadow detail and all around quality.
>
> There are so many things available now, you might want to start looking
> into them.
>
> jerry
>
> Join one of the many print exhanges and you'll see what is possible.
>
> nedbuntline2002 wrote:
> >
> > I've had a darkroom for quite some time, and I'm rather proficient at
> > the old techniques.  But I'm getting shoved (mostly by publications)
> > into thinking about digital.  I've made the decision that I would
> > like to give it a try, I'm just not sure if now is the time.
> >
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A few months ago I went to an exhibit here in Gloucester, MA 
by a photojournalist/documentary photographer named Nubar Alexanian. 
The prints were quite large, some of them printed on silver and 
some of them scanned and printed digitally (don't recall which 
inkset or printer). They were all matted and framed under glass 
and in a well-lit gallery. I had to go to within five or six 
inches of these prints to tell which had been printed in a darkroom 
and which had been scanned and printed on an inkjet printer, 
and I could tell then only because in the enlarger-created prints, 
the grain was slightly blury at the edges, whereas in the inkjet 
ones it was not. From this limited viewing of prints done by 
a master in both the old and the new technologies, I'd have to 
say that "now" is as much the time as "soon." 

I was quite startled, and encouraged. I'm sure that with a loupe, 
or with the prints not under glass, it would have been easier 
to see a difference, but not necessarily possible to say which 
type of print was "better."

- David

= = = Original message = = =

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., CDTobie@a... wrote:

"just hoping it will all become pushbutton for you so you won't 
have 
to learn any of it is not a good attitude if you really want 
to work 
with the new medium."

A couple of the responses have reflected on this.  This is not 
at all 
what I'm refering to with my inquiry.  I spend many hours making 
my 
darkroom prints right, and I don't expect digital to be any less 
work 
intensive.

My main issue here is the comparison of the technologies.  I 
don't 
want to make the leap to digital unless I can get prints of 
comparable quality to the black and white silver ones I'm producing 

now.  Since I do have a darkroom already, I have the luxury of 

waiting.  So to my question: Is digital there yet?  And if not, 
how 
close is it really to being there?


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