Digital BW, The Print

Albert, The Wells River paper, which is supposed to be a thin William
Turner, is notorious for flaking. Print a print with a lot of blacks and
then put in a stack of other prints, and shuffle through the stack a few
times. You should see hundreds of little tiny white flecks in the black
areas. I did, when I tried the paper about a year ago. Other than that,
it's a great paper...

Jerry



Albert Wang wrote:

> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Using the Epson black ink has been fairly decent. I know that I can't
> achieve the rich blacks but at least I get a reasonable b and w
> print. I am in the process of testing various papers and found that
> EAM is very dead looking. It's cheap enough for proofing but as the
> final result the EAM whiteness of the Zone I-III regions are
> horrendous lacking in depth relative to the Photo Rag. I could sell
> it as a cheap version of the print or as giveaways to clients but
> that's about it...
> 
> Ironically I know that Photo Rag is extremely popular but I tried out
> the Wells River or William Turner 190 and it's fabulous looking. It's
> absolutely sharp yet at the same time its rough surface lends a
> certain edginess to it like a watercolor. It's an eerie feeling but
> with Epson inks it looks very good short of true piezography
> BW. :D... Any other people who enjoy the Wells River paper too? I
> do!!!
> 
> Also I'm happy about being able to do the testing of German Etching.
> I hope to report back on it later on tomorrow too :D... It's a
> thicker paper and I only discovered how to control the thickness of
> the paper going through the C80.
> 
> AW
> 
> 
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Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the info about Wells River. I like the texture quite a bit 
and will test more sheets of it later on... So far I only printed out 
2 test prints on it and put them into an Itoya binder. Anyways, is 
the thicker William Turner 308 less susceptible to the flaking 
problem? If so, I would love to test that one and see how that goes.

Tonite I will be working on the German Etching paper and hope that I 
can get better results. I will invest into a ICC profiling system 
from Cone system for the C80 and see whether i get better results 
than before ya know? :D

sincerely, AW

> Albert, The Wells River paper, which is supposed to be a thin 
William
> Turner, is notorious for flaking. Print a print with a lot of 
blacks and
> then put in a stack of other prints, and shuffle through the stack 
a few
> times. You should see hundreds of little tiny white flecks in the 
black
> areas. I did, when I tried the paper about a year ago. Other than 
that,
> it's a great paper...
>

Albert,

I only tried William Turner once, as it is the most expensive paper
there is! I didn't notice much flaking, perhaps 2 or 3 little places in
a letter size print.  To help,  wipe down these papers with a cloth or a
brush before printing on them. Apply medium pressure. You'll see a big
improvement. William Turner doesn't seem to be the same surface as wells
river, which is sandpaper - like. It makes beautiful prints. 

I think the the German Etching paper is the same as Media Street's Royal
Plush, and it is much cheaper at mediastreet. http://www.mediastreet.com
  Royal Jazz is the thinner version of Royal Plush, and isn't so
expensive.  Anything with the Name "Royal" in it at mediastreet is in
fact a Hahnemuhle Paper.

Jerry

Albert Wang wrote:

> 
> Hi Jerry,
> 
> Thanks for the info about Wells River. I like the texture quite a bit
> and will test more sheets of it later on... So far I only printed out
> 2 test prints on it and put them into an Itoya binder. Anyways, is
> the thicker William Turner 308 less susceptible to the flaking
> problem? If so, I would love to test that one and see how that goes.
> 
> Tonite I will be working on the German Etching paper and hope that I
> can get better results. I will invest into a ICC profiling system
> from Cone system for the C80 and see whether i get better results
> than before ya know? :D
> 
> sincerely, AW
> 
> > Albert, The Wells River paper, which is supposed to be a thin
> William
> > Turner, is notorious for flaking. Print a print with a lot of
> blacks and
> > then put in a stack of other prints, and shuffle through the stack
> a few
> > times. You should see hundreds of little tiny white flecks in the
> black
> > areas. I did, when I tried the paper about a year ago. Other than
> that,
> > it's a great paper...
> >
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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Julian,

> Jerry is a bit of an animal when it comes to his prints :-)

Don't we know it!  If you rub him the wrong way, I'll bet he kicks the
litter right out of his box, or if you REALLY get him going, leaves you a
present in the corner.

;-)

Jerry is a bit of an animal when it comes to his prints :-) The very idea o
f putting fineprints in a stack and shuffling them!! I ask you... I use WR a
lot (and PR) with EAM for workprints. The WR (brushed down before I print on
it as that gets rid of any loose stuff) goes straight into plastic bags or
frames. The only time I came a cropper was using it for a print exchange and
folk put them in a stack and , um, shuffled them and they didn't like it too
much!
Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Wang" <leica_phile@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Loving that Cone Wells River paper...


> Hi Jerry,
>
> Thanks for the info about Wells River. I like the texture quite a bit
> and will test more sheets of it later on... So far I only printed out
> 2 test prints on it and put them into an Itoya binder. Anyways, is
> the thicker William Turner 308 less susceptible to the flaking
> problem? If so, I would love to test that one and see how that goes.
>
> Tonite I will be working on the German Etching paper and hope that I
> can get better results. I will invest into a ICC profiling system
> from Cone system for the C80 and see whether i get better results
> than before ya know? :D
>
> sincerely, AW
>
> > Albert, The Wells River paper, which is supposed to be a thin
> William
> > Turner, is notorious for flaking. Print a print with a lot of
> blacks and
> > then put in a stack of other prints, and shuffle through the stack
> a few
> > times. You should see hundreds of little tiny white flecks in the
> black
> > areas. I did, when I tried the paper about a year ago. Other than
> that,
> > it's a great paper...
> >
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> a letter size print.  To help,  wipe down these papers with a cloth or a
> brush before printing on them. Apply medium pressure. You'll see a big
> improvement. William Turner doesn't seem to be the same surface as wells
> river, which is sandpaper - like. It makes beautiful prints.

I'd suggest you don't use a cloth, it'll cause a burnishing effect.  I use
my old natural drafting brush, works great. WR is a favorite. Treat it
right, as with any fine paper and it will stay lovely.

C

Julian,

What better test of a paper than this? If a paper flakes a lot with this
test, it will
probably flake later on.  You should see the prints that Lyson sent me
as samples when I first started digital printing, about 6 or 7 years
ago. They sent samples of all of their papers, the very expensive ones.
Each had many white flakes when I got them. Now, there are hundreds of
flakes all over the prints and they have just been in a box.
Unbelievable. I'm sure we have come a long way since then, but unless
you actually wipe down the paper before printing, and do put your prints
in a protective sleeve, they will flake!

Jerry

Julian Thomas wrote:
> 
> Jerry is a bit of an animal when it comes to his prints :-)

Meow!

 The very idea o

> f putting fineprints in a stack and shuffling them!! I ask you... I use WR a
> lot (and PR) with EAM for workprints. The WR (brushed down before I print on
> it as that gets rid of any loose stuff) goes straight into plastic bags or
> frames. The only time I came a cropper was using it for a print exchange and
> folk put them in a stack and , um, shuffled them and they didn't like it too
> much!
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert Wang" <leica_phile@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Loving that Cone Wells River paper...
> 
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > Thanks for the info about Wells River. I like the texture quite a bit
> > and will test more sheets of it later on... So far I only printed out
> > 2 test prints on it and put them into an Itoya binder. Anyways, is
> > the thicker William Turner 308 less susceptible to the flaking
> > problem? If so, I would love to test that one and see how that goes.
> >
> > Tonite I will be working on the German Etching paper and hope that I
> > can get better results. I will invest into a ICC profiling system
> > from Cone system for the C80 and see whether i get better results
> > than before ya know? :D
> >
> > sincerely, AW
> >
> > > Albert, The Wells River paper, which is supposed to be a thin
> > William
> > > Turner, is notorious for flaking. Print a print with a lot of
> > blacks and
> > > then put in a stack of other prints, and shuffle through the stack
> > a few
> > > times. You should see hundreds of little tiny white flecks in the
> > black
> > > areas. I did, when I tried the paper about a year ago. Other than
> > that,
> > > it's a great paper...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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Austin, you are just jealous of my animal magnetism.

Jerry

Austin Franklin wrote:

> 
> Julian,
> 
> > Jerry is a bit of an animal when it comes to his prints :-)
> 
> Don't we know it!  If you rub him the wrong way, I'll bet he kicks the
> litter right out of his box, or if you REALLY get him going, leaves you a
> present in the corner.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
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> 
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I know... I printed my last solo show on WR and after brushing, printing,
drying they went straight into mattes and frames - look great still. It
isn't a general purpose paper at all - just as some of the more delicate
Japanese papers aren't. But for the 'fine' exhibition print they are great.
I'm currently trying to print (banding aggggghhhh) a set of 20 prints for a
portfolio view and I know these will be shuffled out of bags etc so I'm
doing it on PR, even though I'll probably print the exhibit (if I get it) on
WR.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Loving that Cone Wells River paper...


> Julian,
>
> What better test of a paper than this? If a paper flakes a lot with this
> test, it will
> probably flake later on.  You should see the prints that Lyson sent me
> as samples when I first started digital printing, about 6 or 7 years
> ago. They sent samples of all of their papers, the very expensive ones.
> Each had many white flakes when I got them. Now, there are hundreds of
> flakes all over the prints and they have just been in a box.
> Unbelievable. I'm sure we have come a long way since then, but unless
> you actually wipe down the paper before printing, and do put your prints
> in a protective sleeve, they will flake!
>
> Jerry
>
> Julian Thomas wrote:
> >
> > Jerry is a bit of an animal when it comes to his prints :-)
>
> Meow!
>
>  The very idea o
> > f putting fineprints in a stack and shuffling them!! I ask you... I use
WR a
> > lot (and PR) with EAM for workprints. The WR (brushed down before I
print on
> > it as that gets rid of any loose stuff) goes straight into plastic bags
or
> > frames. The only time I came a cropper was using it for a print exchange
and
> > folk put them in a stack and , um, shuffled them and they didn't like it
too
> > much!
> > Julian
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Albert Wang" <leica_phile@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Loving that Cone Wells River paper...
> >
> > > Hi Jerry,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the info about Wells River. I like the texture quite a bit
> > > and will test more sheets of it later on... So far I only printed out
> > > 2 test prints on it and put them into an Itoya binder. Anyways, is
> > > the thicker William Turner 308 less susceptible to the flaking
> > > problem? If so, I would love to test that one and see how that goes.
> > >
> > > Tonite I will be working on the German Etching paper and hope that I
> > > can get better results. I will invest into a ICC profiling system
> > > from Cone system for the C80 and see whether i get better results
> > > than before ya know? :D
> > >
> > > sincerely, AW
> > >
> > > > Albert, The Wells River paper, which is supposed to be a thin
> > > William
> > > > Turner, is notorious for flaking. Print a print with a lot of
> > > blacks and
> > > > then put in a stack of other prints, and shuffle through the stack
> > > a few
> > > > times. You should see hundreds of little tiny white flecks in the
> > > black
> > > > areas. I did, when I tried the paper about a year ago. Other than
> > > that,
> > > > it's a great paper...
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same
> > page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
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keep them short.
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&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>

Yes, it did print beautifully. I just might try it again...

Jerry

Good advice on the cloth.  I don't think I press hard enough to get
burnishing, though.





Carolyn Frayn wrote:

> 
> > a letter size print.  To help,  wipe down these papers with a cloth or a
> > brush before printing on them. Apply medium pressure. You'll see a big
> > improvement. William Turner doesn't seem to be the same surface as wells
> > river, which is sandpaper - like. It makes beautiful prints.
> 
> I'd suggest you don't use a cloth, it'll cause a burnishing effect.  I use
> my old natural drafting brush, works great. WR is a favorite. Treat it
> right, as with any fine paper and it will stay lovely.
> 
> C
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> Yes, it did print beautifully. I just might try it again...

Always good to do that.. <g>
 
> Good advice on the cloth.  I don't think I press hard enough to get
> burnishing, though.
> 

I hardly pressed at all, it surprised me actually. I couldn't find my brush
one day and thought I'd just give it a gentle rub with a soft cotton cloth.
The blacks came out strange, because the cloth had literally burnished the
texture down. Lesson learned.

Carolyn  

(animal magnetism - good one!!)

Thanks Carolyn, I'll get a drafting  brush and give it another try. I
LOVE the 
blacks of that paper.

Jerry

Carolyn Frayn wrote:

> 
> > Yes, it did print beautifully. I just might try it again...
>
> I hardly pressed at all, it surprised me actually. I couldn't find my brush
> one day and thought I'd just give it a gentle rub with a soft cotton cloth.
> The blacks came out strange, because the cloth had literally burnished the
> texture down. Lesson learned.
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> (animal magnetism - good one!!)
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/