Digital BW, The Print

Ernst,

You wrote:

>If Ultrachrome black and grey are used in a quad would the grey be the
>second in density ...

I have been waiting for the MIS clones to see what we could do with it.  I
assume that the clone UC ink is at least an accurate density and viscosity
match for the real thing, and it would be a lot cheaper for me to do my
playing around with free inks.  However, once a good quad mix is found,
buying some UC to see (be sure) it is easy to substitute is the obvious next
move.

>The idea is that on a 3000 with a CIS it would be possible
>to bring five ink lines near the head. 3 greys based on the
>Ultrachrome grey + the two
>Ultrachrome blacks: photo and mat. That is a fade proof
>pigment set with mat and gloss printing possible without
>much ink loss in the ink change.

I'm not sure how the CIS lines near the head would work. I've never gotten
that far into the mechanics of the machine.

Even with the current, unmodified 3000, however, switching would not be too
bad.  Since we can clean just the black, we can drain that line in 3
cleaning cycles without any "color" ink being wasted.  That is a whole lot
better than the 7600 -- which will cost the price of a full cart of ink when
the blacks are switched.

>The advantage of the 3000 is that it cleans the black head separately.

I don't understand why Epson did not design the 7600/9600 to clean only the
black head/line.  Again, it sounds like the various design departments at
Epson just do not talk to each other.

>A VM set would be possible too.

Absolutely.  The vm-s is my first target.  However, I also have some ideas
that might get us some much tougher standard quads at MIS prices.  (The UC
clones are more expensive.)  With any luck, we will see some more quality
improvements in quads this year.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, you wrote,

> >The idea is that on a 3000 with a CIS it would be possible
> >to bring five ink lines near the head. 3 greys based on the
> >Ultrachrome grey + the two
> >Ultrachrome blacks: photo and mat. That is a fade proof
> >pigment set with mat and gloss printing possible without
> >much ink loss in the ink change.
>
> I'm not sure how the CIS lines near the head would work. I've never gotten
> that far into the mechanics of the machine.

The construction is good enough to add an extra ink tube to it and a switch
valve near the black damper.
Could be done on the 9000 too. Then there's no need to replace the contents
of the whole inkline and on the 9000 6 inklines by an initial fill. Of
course with the last you can print black cats in a coalpit to save on inks.

> Even with the current, unmodified 3000, however, switching would not be
too
> bad.  Since we can clean just the black, we can drain that line in 3
> cleaning cycles without any "color" ink being wasted.  That is a whole lot
> better than the 7600 -- which will cost the price of a full cart of ink
when
> the blacks are switched.
>
> >The advantage of the 3000 is that it cleans the black head separately.
>
> I don't understand why Epson did not design the 7600/9600 to clean only
the
> black head/line.  Again, it sounds like the various design departments at
> Epson just do not talk to each other.

The design of the heads is different, 3 or 4 heads are combined and the
capping stations they rest on have a sealing surrounding them as a whole.
The cleaning has to be done at least per headset of 3 heads. Even that isn't
done. When the alternative black cart is put in the inkslot it triggers a
kind of initial fill for all the inklines = 7 x 25 ml approx. It would have
been far less waste if the firmware asked for a piece of paper of 5 square
feet and the black line printed that 25 ml on the paper at the highest
speed/lowest resolution possible. It wouldn't take more time than the
inkchange they force now. I've written on that subject in the 9000 list and
let us hope they will change that too like they made a better inkcounter in
the new 7600/9600 firmware.


Ernst

At this point I don't think that the Ultrachrome black is the answer because
of its very limited paper compatibility.  Seems like a more interesting
option for a new variable tone set would be Cone's new museum black...but
we'll have to see how well that fades...and how the dmax varies across
papers...there there is the problem that its a cone product and VM is an MIS
product...big problem...and from what Cone has said...he has an exclusive on
that technology...but who knows.

Robert

 On 10/4/02 8:28 AM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Ernst,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
>> If Ultrachrome black and grey are used in a quad would the grey be the
>> second in density ...
> 
> I have been waiting for the MIS clones to see what we could do with it.  I
> assume that the clone UC ink is at least an accurate density and viscosity
> match for the real thing, and it would be a lot cheaper for me to do my
> playing around with free inks.  However, once a good quad mix is found,
> buying some UC to see (be sure) it is easy to substitute is the obvious next
> move.
> 
>> The idea is that on a 3000 with a CIS it would be possible
>> to bring five ink lines near the head. 3 greys based on the
>> Ultrachrome grey + the two
>> Ultrachrome blacks: photo and mat. That is a fade proof
>> pigment set with mat and gloss printing possible without
>> much ink loss in the ink change.
> 
> I'm not sure how the CIS lines near the head would work. I've never gotten
> that far into the mechanics of the machine.
> 
> Even with the current, unmodified 3000, however, switching would not be too
> bad.  Since we can clean just the black, we can drain that line in 3
> cleaning cycles without any "color" ink being wasted.  That is a whole lot
> better than the 7600 -- which will cost the price of a full cart of ink when
> the blacks are switched.
> 
>> The advantage of the 3000 is that it cleans the black head separately.
> 
> I don't understand why Epson did not design the 7600/9600 to clean only the
> black head/line.  Again, it sounds like the various design departments at
> Epson just do not talk to each other.
> 
>> A VM set would be possible too.
> 
> Absolutely.  The vm-s is my first target.  However, I also have some ideas
> that might get us some much tougher standard quads at MIS prices.  (The UC
> clones are more expensive.)  With any luck, we will see some more quality
> improvements in quads this year.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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