Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Re: [DigitalBW] Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

Re: [DigitalBW] Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-01-25 by John/Julie Gittins

Robert,

on 01/25/03 3:27 AM, "Robert Morrison" <morrison@...> wrote:
 
>On 1/23/03 5:40 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

>> I wonder if this is an RC paper that would work well with the new
>> RC-compatible inksets.  I'd like to find some good alternatives to Premium
>> Luster and full-on glossy RC paper.

>Yes, the Ilford Gallerie Smooth is the best of the pearl/luster RC papers,
>feel/surface wise...it was just a shame how poorly it performed with the
>quads...my guess is that it will work fine with the Epson 10000 black ink.
>I'll try some with the Ultrachromes tomorrow.  Its also cheap and available
>in 250 sheet boxes.
>Robert

I agree that out of the group of Ilford Galerie RC-type papers the 
Smooth surface is the best-looking. I tried it with MIS original quads 
early last year, and had the same poor result you report. Last week 
I did some Black-Only prints on it with my C80 -- I was curious about 
whether the C80's Durachrome black (like the UC Matte Black, not micro-
encapsulated) would do better at getting into the Ilford Smooth's coating.
It did, but there was still a gloss difference between the shadows and 
the rest of the tones. However, after spraying these prints with 
Lumijet -- 2 light coats and a 3rd heavy coat, which warmed the image 
noticeably (but not too much for me) -- only vestiges of the 
gloss differences were visible, and then only when I looked very closely.
After the spraying, I have to say that I think the print surface looked 
quite good.

Since the Epson 10000's Archival black IS encapsulated, I'd expect the 
kind of (pre-spray) gloss difference I found would be reduced, if not 
absent altogether, on Galerie Smooth.

Yesterday, I got a sample of Epson Professional Glossy paper (only 
available in cut-sheets in 13x19) and tried it, too, with the C80's black.
The tone of the black before spraying (haven't sprayed it yet)was much 
warmer than with the that Ilford Galerie Smooth's after spraying. 
Also, the ink seemed to get into the paper a little more. It strikes me 
that Professional Glossy might be an interesting paper for duotones. 

Robert, on a different note, I'd like to ask if you're still planning 
to bring an acrylic print-coating product to market in the near-future? 
I'd like to stop using the spray-varnishes that now exceed my health-risk 
threshold (after spraying a batch of prints, I feel as lightheaded, etc. 
as after inhaling a cigarette for the 1st time following a 20-year 
stretch of no smoking).

John          
  
          





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[DigitalBW] Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-01-25 by John/Julie Gittins

Robert,

Oops. Forgot to note that my C80 Black-Only test was done with Ilford Galerie Smooth 
GLOSSY (not Pearl).  I'd expect that the Pearl would show still less gloss-difference between 
the shadows and the other tones than I found with the Glossy. 

John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: [DigitalBW] Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-01-25 by Robert Morrison

I just printed some Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl on my 2200 with photo black
running Imageprint OSX.  The results are really lovely...I'd say the hands
down winner for RC style prints at this point.  No bronzing at all and
absolutely no rub off minutes after it comes out the printer.  Didn't run a
step wedge...but I'd say that the black is well over 2.0 dmax...probably in
the 2.2 range. I don't consider the BW output from IP using the 2200 to be
fine art prints (I prefer quad options because of tonal transitions and
hilight detail), however for a commerical BW print I don't think this
combination can be beat.

An important note here is that the Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl is CHEAP!
You can get it for $.25/letter sized sheet if you buy from Bhphoto in
quantities of 250. This paper is so cheap that it really changes the
economics of using the ultrachromes for certain jobs.  I could use quads
with a dollar/sheet paper or ultrachromes with a $.25/sheet paper.  I think
that counteracts the additional cost of the Ultrachromes.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 1/25/03 10:25 AM, "John/Julie Gittins" <jgittins2@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> on 01/25/03 3:27 AM, "Robert Morrison" <morrison@...> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/23/03 5:40 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> 
>>> I wonder if this is an RC paper that would work well with the new
>>> RC-compatible inksets.  I'd like to find some good alternatives to Premium
>>> Luster and full-on glossy RC paper.
> 
>> Yes, the Ilford Gallerie Smooth is the best of the pearl/luster RC papers,
>> feel/surface wise...it was just a shame how poorly it performed with the
>> quads...my guess is that it will work fine with the Epson 10000 black ink.
>> I'll try some with the Ultrachromes tomorrow.  Its also cheap and available
>> in 250 sheet boxes.
>> Robert
> 
> I agree that out of the group of Ilford Galerie RC-type papers the
> Smooth surface is the best-looking. I tried it with MIS original quads
> early last year, and had the same poor result you report. Last week
> I did some Black-Only prints on it with my C80 -- I was curious about
> whether the C80's Durachrome black (like the UC Matte Black, not micro-
> encapsulated) would do better at getting into the Ilford Smooth's coating.
> It did, but there was still a gloss difference between the shadows and
> the rest of the tones. However, after spraying these prints with
> Lumijet -- 2 light coats and a 3rd heavy coat, which warmed the image
> noticeably (but not too much for me) -- only vestiges of the
> gloss differences were visible, and then only when I looked very closely.
> After the spraying, I have to say that I think the print surface looked
> quite good.
> 
> Since the Epson 10000's Archival black IS encapsulated, I'd expect the
> kind of (pre-spray) gloss difference I found would be reduced, if not
> absent altogether, on Galerie Smooth.
> 
> Yesterday, I got a sample of Epson Professional Glossy paper (only
> available in cut-sheets in 13x19) and tried it, too, with the C80's black.
> The tone of the black before spraying (haven't sprayed it yet)was much
> warmer than with the that Ilford Galerie Smooth's after spraying.
> Also, the ink seemed to get into the paper a little more. It strikes me
> that Professional Glossy might be an interesting paper for duotones.
> 
> Robert, on a different note, I'd like to ask if you're still planning
> to bring an acrylic print-coating product to market in the near-future?
> I'd like to stop using the spray-varnishes that now exceed my health-risk
> threshold (after spraying a batch of prints, I feel as lightheaded, etc.
> as after inhaling a cigarette for the 1st time following a 20-year
> stretch of no smoking).
> 
> John          
> 
>         
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Coating Prints was Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-01-25 by Robert Morrison

On 1/25/03 10:25 AM, "John/Julie Gittins" <jgittins2@...> wrote:

> 
> Robert, on a different note, I'd like to ask if you're still planning
> to bring an acrylic print-coating product to market in the near-future?
> I'd like to stop using the spray-varnishes that now exceed my health-risk
> threshold (after spraying a batch of prints, I feel as lightheaded, etc.
> as after inhaling a cigarette for the 1st time following a 20-year
> stretch of no smoking).

The short answer is no.

The long answer is that the economics don't look good. I simply can't
compete on price with an architectural coating made in bulk (e.g., Hydrocote
Polyshield).  Unfortunately my formula is not a simple blend of
over-the-counter products and thus I can't tell people how to make it
themselves...it requires industrial mixing equipment and buying raw
materials in quantity.

If you want to experiment I'd get some Hydrocote Polyshield (recommended by
Paul Roark).  Use a number 30 Mayer Rod (www.rdspecialties.com).  I really
like the results on Eclipse which you can get from www.inkjetgoodies.  While
I like my formula a good bit better than the polyshield, the polyshield can
be made to perform adequately and it is readily available.  While the
toxicity of the polyshield isn't great, its much better than what you are
using.  You can work inside in a room with light ventilation.  I'd suggest
wearing rubber gloves.

Robert

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Coating Prints was Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-01-26 by Robert Morrison

Sorry, I don't know of one.  I'm considering putting together a handbook for
coating which would fill this void...but no promises.  I think if you check
the archives, you will find posts by either Paul or myself that describes
the process.  What's really needed is an illustrated set of instructions.

Robert

On 1/25/03 1:07 PM, "Charles Bandes <byronbulb@...>"
<byronbulb@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Robert, could you please explain (or suggest a website or book which
> would explain) how one would use a mayer rod to coat a print?
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Re:H photorag defect

2003-01-26 by Dan Dumitru

I was wondering if the group could help me remember some discussion awhile
back regarding hahnemuhle photorag 308 and alternating "banding" in the
paper itself about 4 inches apart with the band being about 1 inch in width.
I bought the large sheets (approx 40X30) bit I think the original dissucion
involved the roll paper. You can't see this band very well until you print
on it (particularly dark region such as sky) and then look at the print from
the side at an angle of about 15-20 degrees.  Once seen , the print looks
terrible.  I tried searching the archives but came up blank.
I would like to refer to this discussion in attempting to get the supplier
to take back the paper since I seem to remeber Hahnemuhle admitted a defect
in their process.

Thank you for your help,
dan dumitru



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Coating Prints was Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-01-26 by Paul Roark

Charles,

Below is a summary of what I was doing in November.  It may be a bit
outdated.  I think MIS may now have some of the rod, and Diversified may be
avoiding small retail accounts.

Good luck.

Paul
___________________
Coating inkjet prints (11/26/02)

I have been experimenting with print coatings that raise the dMax to over
2.0 and make the fragile surface of the inkjet prints much tougher and more
durable. Frankly, the coated carbon-pigment prints I've been making have a
visibly higher dynamic range than my toned silver prints, and the coated
surface is so tough that the print can be displayed without glazing. Once
the glass is gone, the dynamic range of the print can really shine. I don't
expect conservative gallery owners to accept the idea very quickly, but
side-by-side with glazed B&W prints, the unglazed, coated inkjet prints will
speak for themselves.

Sprays cannot give the dMax increase that I am looking for. A thicker
coating is needed.

So far, I favor applying the coating with a #30 wire-wound ("Mayer") rod
(from Diversified Enterprises 800-833-4644) for Epson Archival Matte ("EAM")
and a #15 for Eclipse Satine. Legion Photo Matte with a #15 rod is rather
non-reflective, and with the #30 rod gets a very good dmax and a surface
that is close to an air-dried silver print.

Diversified Enterprises is not set up to handle small accounts. So, the
latest thought is to have MIS take over retail distribution on the rods.

For 8x10" prints I've been using a 16" (12" of winding) 1/2 inch thick rod
that sells for $22 (but there is a $25 minimum). If one has just a 13"
printer, I'd recommend 15" of winding and 19" total rod length. The rod
coating is the only process I've tried that can do a perfect finish in one
coat.

For coating material, some on the Digital B&W Print forum like the Golden
water-based acrylics for the first coat. The Liquitex version -- readily
available -- at 3 parts Liquitex to 1 part water is also a good coating. In
fact, I favor something like the Liquitex because it has no UV inhibitors,
which often yellow the print too much.

I currently think polyurethane ("PUR") may be a better coating. It's
superior toughness and resistance to humidity and chemicals may have
significant advantages over the acrylics. The best practical answer I've
found is the water-based (easy, even if not at tough as the 2-solution,
solvent-based, industrial-strength ones), aliphatic (non-yellowing),
Hydrocote (800-229-4937) Polyshield Gloss PUR. This is available in
one-quart size via mail/telephone order. The wire-wound rods apply it easily
with no dilution. It dries very quickly, but takes about 7 days to cure
completely.

The three papers that I've used that work the best are Eclipse Satine, LPM,
and EAM. They all can be coated with a single application.

To apply the coating with a rod, I tape the "top" 1/8 inch of the print to a
piece of 1/4" thick glass using Scotch Removable tape. (Have the print
upside down so that the larger bottom border is the one taped.) The glass is
for a smooth, flat surface that I can razor off dried coating if necessary.
I've been using a couple sheets of copy paper under the print. For some
papers it helps also to tape down the bottom corners, although I usually
don't bother with this.

About 7 cc (for an 8x10) of Polyshield pulled straight from the can with a
syringe fitted with an MIS bottom-fill attachment is used to lay a "bead" on
the tape and glass above the print. I make sure there are no bubbles in the
PUR not only before I lay down the bead but also after the bead is on the
tape & glass. I pull some water into the syringe and discharge it
immediately a couple of times to stop the PUR from setting-up in the nozzle.

Just before pulling the rod across the print, I use a blower to be sure
there is no dust on it. Since the can of PUR is only open long enough to
pull out what I need, there should not be any significant amount of dust in
the coating material (I hope -- so far, so good).

After the "bead" (or small, long pool) of coating is on the tape and glass
above the print, I pull the rod through the bead and down across the print.
The weight of the rod supplies most of the downward force needed. I don't
roll the rod, but rather drag it smoothly and not too slowly, keeping the
speed of the pull as constant as possible. If I get horizontal banding, it
is often because I've pulled the rod too slowly. After I've pulled the
excess coating away from the bottom of the print, I immediately rinse off
the rod. I definitely don't want the PUR to set-up on the rod.

I quickly remove the tape from the print. If the PUR sets-up too much before
the tape is pulled off, it will pull off part of the print paper with it.

I usually put the 8x10 print on a dry paper towel as soon as possible. The
screw-driver that I used to open the can makes a handy tool to run under the
print edges to separate them from the paper and glass under the print.

A damp sponge soaks up the excess coating material and will clean the glass
easily.

Once the glass is clean and dry, I usually pull the print on its paper towel
back onto the glass and dry it a bit with a hair drier. By this time it is
also dry enough to just hang up to dry.

Between the tape, handling and other problems, I lose a little less than 1/4
inch of each print edge, but that still leaves a good 8x10 print area.

I'm still experimenting with this, so my materials and methods may change.

While the coating process is still experimental, I think it holds great
potential for taking our pigmented inkjet prints to a level that, in many
respects, exceeds the quality of the traditional silver print.

Paul

http://www.PaulRoark.com

____________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Charles Bandes <byronbulb@...> [mailto:byronbulb@...]
  Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 1:07 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Coating Prints was Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet
paper


  Robert, could you please explain (or suggest a website or book which
  would explain) how one would use a mayer rod to coat a print?


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by donbga <dsbryant@mindspring.com>

Robert,

What is the largest print you have been able to coat successfully 
using the #33 rod from R.D. Design? I've only been successful with 
8.5 x 11 inche prints using Hydrocote Polyshield gloss.

And has any one tried the satin finish? 

Thanks,

Don Bryant

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Robert Morrison

I've done 16x20's with a #30 rod with my coating...but I don't see any
reason why the Hydrocote wouldn't work.  What problem are you having?

Robert

On 1/25/03 7:48 PM, "donbga <dsbryant@...>"
<dsbryant@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Robert,
> 
> What is the largest print you have been able to coat successfully
> using the #33 rod from R.D. Design? I've only been successful with
> 8.5 x 11 inche prints using Hydrocote Polyshield gloss.
> 
> And has any one tried the satin finish?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don Bryant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Ton Guiking

Pardon my ignorance, I've searched on the internet and this group, but
nowhere found out what exactly a ROD is.. 
Thanks,
Ton Guiking
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...] 
> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 14:17
> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
> 
> 
> I've done 16x20's with a #30 rod with my coating...but I 
> don't see any reason why the Hydrocote wouldn't work.  What 
> problem are you having?
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Robert Morrison

Check:

http://www.rdspecialties.com/products.htm

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 1/26/03 7:04 AM, "Ton Guiking" <guiking@...> wrote:

> Pardon my ignorance, I've searched on the internet and this group, but
> nowhere found out what exactly a ROD is..
> Thanks,
> Ton Guiking
> 
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 14:17
>> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
>> 
>> 
>> I've done 16x20's with a #30 rod with my coating...but I
>> don't see any reason why the Hydrocote wouldn't work.  What
>> problem are you having?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Ton Guiking

Thanks Robert. I had found sorta similar things, but can't imagine how
you use it for applying a fixative on a print. Blowing through it a
fixative? Using it as a brush? I know it probably sounds silly, but
well, I really couldn't figure out how to use it.
Thanks,
Ton

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...] 
> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 20:06
> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
> 
> 
> Check:
> 
> http://www.rdspecialties.com/products.htm
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 1/26/03 7:04 AM, "Ton Guiking" <guiking@...> wrote:
> 
> > Pardon my ignorance, I've searched on the internet and this 
> group, but 
> > nowhere found out what exactly a ROD is.. Thanks,
> > Ton Guiking
> > 
> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> >> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 14:17
> >> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I've done 16x20's with a #30 rod with my coating...but I don't see 
> >> any reason why the Hydrocote wouldn't work.  What problem are you 
> >> having?
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> Bookmarks, Polls 
> > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> > this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to 
> > keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
> > header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives 
> and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> updated. The page is at:
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Robert Morrison

Using it as a brush.  Look at there instruction information...there is even
a picture.  You squirt the solution along the top of the print and "draw
down" with the rod.  This applies a uniform film thickness of solution.  You
need to have a disposable border around the print (I use at least 1 inch on
the bottom and sides and 2-3 inches on the top. This is the technique that
is used to make most of our inkjet coated papers...its been around for
nearly 50 years and is by far the best method of applying an even coat of a
solution to paper.  It is a technique, however, and requires practice.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 1/26/03 11:56 AM, "Ton Guiking" <guiking@...> wrote:

> Thanks Robert. I had found sorta similar things, but can't imagine how
> you use it for applying a fixative on a print. Blowing through it a
> fixative? Using it as a brush? I know it probably sounds silly, but
> well, I really couldn't figure out how to use it.
> Thanks,
> Ton
> 
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 20:06
>> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
>> 
>> 
>> Check:
>> 
>> http://www.rdspecialties.com/products.htm
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 1/26/03 7:04 AM, "Ton Guiking" <guiking@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Pardon my ignorance, I've searched on the internet and this
>> group, but 
>>> nowhere found out what exactly a ROD is.. Thanks,
>>> Ton Guiking
>>> 
>>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>>>> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 14:17
>>>> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've done 16x20's with a #30 rod with my coating...but I don't see
>>>> any reason why the Hydrocote wouldn't work.  What problem are you
>>>> having?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
>> Bookmarks, Polls
>>> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or
>> you wish 
>>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
>>> this same page.
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
>> messages to 
>>> keep them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
>>> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives
>> and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
>> Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being
>> updated. The page is at:
>> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Ton Guiking

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...] 
> Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 21:17
> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR
> 
> 
> Using it as a brush.  Look at there instruction 
> information...there is even a picture.  

You are right, but it was at the section with Lab Rods, not the 'normal
ones' where I had looked for info.

You squirt the 
> solution along the top of the print and "draw down" with the 
> rod.  This applies a uniform film thickness of solution.  You 
> need to have a disposable border around the print (I use at 
> least 1 inch on the bottom and sides and 2-3 inches on the 
> top. This is the technique that is used to make most of our 
> inkjet coated papers...its been around for nearly 50 years 
> and is by far the best method of applying an even coat of a 
> solution to paper. 

Amazing and actually incredible that such a 'primitive' technique still
seems to be the best. I can't hardly imagine that no easier methods has
replaced it...

 >It is a technique, however, and requires practice.

I guess so! Thanks for getting me to the right place and the other info.
Ton

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-26 by Robert Morrison

On 1/26/03 12:55 PM, "Ton Guiking" <guiking@...> wrote:

>> solution along the top of the print and "draw down" with the
>> rod.  This applies a uniform film thickness of solution.  You
>> need to have a disposable border around the print (I use at
>> least 1 inch on the bottom and sides and 2-3 inches on the
>> top. This is the technique that is used to make most of our
>> inkjet coated papers...its been around for nearly 50 years
>> and is by far the best method of applying an even coat of a
>> solution to paper.
> 
> Amazing and actually incredible that such a 'primitive' technique still
> seems to be the best. I can't hardly imagine that no easier methods has
> replaced it...

Its not at all primitive, the rod is a precision made tool...unlike brushes
and rollers and the like.  You can precisely dial in for the viscosity of
the liquid you want to use based on the size of wire on the rod.  Actually,
ingenious and very flexible, unlike rolling and brushing which require you
to adjust the liquid for the application technique.


In industrial applications air knives are also common now...but rod coating
is still more flexible and allows for bench-side application as well.  Bench
coating chemists/quality control folks do thousands of "draw-downs" during
their career.

Robert

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-27 by donbga <dsbryant@mindspring.com>

Robert,

> I've done 16x20's with a #30 rod with my coating...but I don't see 
any
> reason why the Hydrocote wouldn't work.  What problem are you 
having?
> 

The rods I have purchased are 16 inches long with 12 inches of wraped 
wire, obviously too short for anything larger than 11 inches wide. 
However, in a nutshell the drawdown pattern sometimes fails to be 
wide enough to entirely coat the image when I reach the bottom 
section of the print. Perhaps my technique is lousy. I dunno, but the 
results can be great when it works.

So, how long is the #30 rod you are using (wire wrapped section) an 
how much PUR (volume) are you using for what sized prints?

Thanks,

Don Bryant

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-27 by Robert Morrison

On 1/27/03 9:08 AM, "donbga <dsbryant@...>"
<dsbryant@...> wrote:

> The rods I have purchased are 16 inches long with 12 inches of wraped
> wire, obviously too short for anything larger than 11 inches wide.

A rod has three measurements:

Diameter:  1/2"
Length:  16"
Wire size:  #30

All of these are critical to getting good results.

> However, in a nutshell the drawdown pattern sometimes fails to be
> wide enough to entirely coat the image when I reach the bottom
> section of the print.

You didn't put down enough coating liquid.  The key is paper margins and
using a rod that has the right specs.  You want at least an inch of paper on
each side beyond where you want to finally cut the image and a minimum of 3
inches at the top to lay down your rod and then puddle the liquid.  I also
like to have a minimum of 1 inch at the bottom too.  I want the wire on my
rod to be at least two inches more than the coating dimension.  So if I want
a finished 8x10 my paper needs to be a minimum of 10x14 and my rod needs to
have 12" of wire (probably a 16" rod).  I use a #30 because it works with
the viscosity of my coatings and gives me the amount of gloss and leveling
that I want in one coat.  When I'm coating a lot of prints I frequently gang
two prints together and coat them together...this saves paper...only
requiring one 3 inch edge for two prints...I will then sometimes put an
extra bead of liquid half way down between the prints to make sure that I
don't run out on the second print...this works great.  For large
prints...you need more paper at the top because you need to put down more
liquid.  For a 16x20 I work on a 24x24 piece of paper.  In the end, the
biggest cost to coating is the price of extra paper.  I've also found that I
needed to adjust my print sizes to work within the confines of the usual
paper sizes.  For instance when I'm printing 35mm full frame images I print
at 6x9 and can easily get two on an 11x17.



Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don Bryant
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating Prints with Hydrocote PUR

2003-01-27 by donbga <dsbryant@mindspring.com>

Robert,

 >For a 16x20 I work on a 24x24 piece of paper.  

So what is the total length of the rod and total length of the wire 
wrapped section when you coat a large print like a 16x20? 

And where did you get the rod?

Don Bryant

Daige Rollacoat System

2003-01-28 by Murray Zaharia

Has anyone tried using one of these systems for coating prints? Looks
like it could do the job and comes in sizes to do up to 55" widths
evenly. You can use water based or solvent based coatings by using
different rollers.

http://www.daige.com/liquid.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Daige Rollacoat System

2003-01-28 by Robert Morrison

This is a very interesting find.  Seems quit reasonably priced as well..$2K
for a 55inch unit.  The big question is whether you could use other coatings
with it or if you are limited to their rather pricey juice.  My concerns
would be polymer drying on the roller and cleanup in general...but it could
be the ticket for a print house or for coating a large format show.  It
would be really important to see a unit operate before buying.  I'll contact
them to find out the scoop.

Robert


On 1/28/03 9:34 AM, "Murray Zaharia" <zaharia@...>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried using one of these systems for coating prints? Looks
> like it could do the job and comes in sizes to do up to 55" widths
> evenly. You can use water based or solvent based coatings by using
> different rollers.
> 
> http://www.daige.com/liquid.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

[Digital BW] Re: Coating Prints was Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-02-04 by Chris Hargens <ldmr@cruzio.com>

To be able to dispense with glass would be reason enough to go with 
coating prints. Non-reflective glass is expensive, and the 
requirement of glass in frames in general is a hassle. 

Chris


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
 Frankly, the coated carbon-pigment prints I've been making have a
> visibly higher dynamic range than my toned silver prints, and the 
coated
> surface is so tough that the print can be displayed without 
glazing. > Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Coating Prints was Ilford Smooth Pearl Inkjet paper

2003-02-04 by Carl Schofield

On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 11:03  AM, Chris Hargens 
<ldmr@...> wrote:

> To be able to dispense with glass would be reason enough to go with
> coating prints. Non-reflective glass is expensive, and the
> requirement of glass in frames in general is a hassle.
>
> Chris

How would you mount the coated prints for display?  I'm assuming that 
if you eliminate the glass then there also would be no mat since the 
primary function of the mat is to keep the glass away form the face of 
the print.  An unprotected mat would also be quite susceptible to dirt 
and damage.  Flush mounting?

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.