Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Jerry Olson

Peter, who are these "many" people who can't get high quality results
with MIS VM, Cone, and Mediastreet inks and the papers of their choice? 
I've never had a problem, except when I was brand new to digital
printing and didn't know what I was doing yet. You will ALWAYS get an
occasional clog, no matter WHOSE ink you use.

I don't see how a flush cartridge could ruin a printer, most of them are
just ammonia and water, which is what the epson repair people use.


> I don't know what to conclude from this.  I have two Epson printers
> under warranty and they both VERY explicitly exclude damage
> caused by using parts or materials "not manufactured, certified,
> or distributed by Epson", so you may have gotten lucky but how
> should anyone generalizr that to themselves?  

This would be illegal to ban the use of third party inks. If they could
PROVE that the third party inks damaged your printer, they probably
wouldn't have to repair it under warranty.  And I do imagine there are
some very bad inksets on the market.  But MIS and Cone, and MediaStreet
make very high quality inks and they are used by tens of thousands of
printers without any problems.

Jerry


 Also, the fact that
> the head was damaged by a 3rd party product is interesting all
> by itself.

If this is a flush cartridge, I'd like to know how that was done!

[Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Clayton Jones <cj@cjcom.net>

Hello Jerry,

>Peter, who are these "many" people who can't get high quality 
>results with MIS VM, Cone, and Mediastreet inks and the papers 
>of their choice? 

Me, for one, and Steve K.  We both struggled unsuccessfully with MIS
inks and various workflows/curves, etc.  His response, because he is a
superb inventor and dedicated tinkerer, was to make his own ink set. 
My response, because I'm not a tinkerer, was to retreat to BO
printing, as Peter says, "in desperation".  The fact that I saw others
at the point of desperation and ready to quit is why I wrote the
articles and began talking up BO printing. I agree with Peter - it
shouldn't have to be so difficult.

What I want to know is whether Peter will do something besides
complain about it.  I did something, in line with my limited
capabilities, and promoting BO printing has kept at least a few I know
of from giving up.  Since Peter is capable of writing printer drivers,
perhaps he will roll up his sleeves and write a replacement driver
that will make perfect continuous tone prints with the new MIS inks so
easy a chimp could do it.  C'mon Peter...stop flappin yer gums and get
to work.  DO something <GGG>.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

peter nelson wrote:

 >At 03:48 AM 2/13/2003 +0000, Jerry Olson wrote:
 >
 >
 >
 >>This would be illegal to ban the use of third party inks.
 >>
 >>
 >
 >
 >You're the second person to make this bizarre claim.
 >Please cite the applicable law.  I'm sure Epson had their lawyers
 >review their warranty.
 >
 >
 >
OK Peter, here's the story... It's not bizarre, that quote is
essentially correct.

1) You clearly don't know what you are talking about as far as the state
of the law.. and I'm beginning to think you simply came onto this list
to provoke discord and rancor.  (as an aside - I mean,  why you'd want 
to print B&W digitally since you've been able since age 13   to produce 
simple, reliable, B&W fine art prints in a chemical darkroom that 
satisfy you, is beyond me.. -- if you don't see other people producing 
digital B&W prints that impress you, why move to digital yourself?)

A company CANNOT legally void a warranty simply because you use a third
party consumables (just as it cannot use a quid pro quo warranty
qualification, like refusing to honor a warranty because you don't send
in a warranty card).  EPSON tried and lost the case on the former in
Oregon or Washington (I forget which and honestly don't care to go
searching for the case now). AFAIK based upon Federal. law and some
state laws, it's considered a restraint of trade and anti-competitive to
require the use of a particular consumable to keep your warranty intact.

As a starter, I would suggest reading and understanding the Sherman
Anti-Trust act, its provisions, application, and evolution. I doubt
you'll take me up on that, so I won't even suggest follow-on reading.
However, feel free to concentrate on court rulings regarding "tying" as
the interpreted and re-interpreted Sherman over the 20th century.

(I'll put up with just about anything EXCEPT a whiner who has NO clue.)

2)    What they can do is refuse a warranty repair if  some
characteristic peculiar to that consumable caused the product failure
(i.e. the consumable was particularly unsuited to the product), when a
similar failure would not occur if using OEM consumables. However, the
onus is on the OEM to show that the failure WAS most likely caused by
that characteristic.  It is NOT upon the consumer to prove the failure
would not have happened.

That's settled law for warranties on cars, trucks, Xerox
machines/copiers, inkjets and a whole slew of products. Imagine if Honda
could simply void your warranty for not using Honda brake fluid. It
can't happen, the onus would be on Honda to show that your choice of
brake fluid ruined some part -- the rationale is that the manufacturer
has significantly more economic power and can avail themselves more
easily of expertise to prove he failure cause, than can a consumer to
prove the failure was not the result of "consumable  x"... Besides the
basic logical reality  that it is easier to prove something IS a likely
cause than to prove the inverse.. (A corollary to the fact that you can
  more easily prove something exists than the almost impossible task of
proving non-existence)

Paul Roark and others could go into a discussion of why, even the use of
chips to try and prevent the use of 3rd party consumables may well be a
case of prohibited tying. -- something that at one point was considered
strictly prohibited under Sherman and its progeny of opinions (if I was
Static Control Devices attorneys, I would certainly argue in part that
Lexmark is using the DMCA to formalize tying and take it outside of
legal review and that a positive ruling on behalf of Lexmark would
eviscerate Sherman of any real anti-tying prohibitions, as long as a
vendor is clever enough to include some DMCA or otherwise copyrighted
component in the consumable -- clearly that represents a financial
disutility of the type Sherman IS meant to prevent),  However, at the
same time, starting in the 70's the Chicago School began re-interpreting
the law in a more utilitarian way. That meant  less explicit
restrictions on tying to create a "more efficient" market (in the belief
that a less regulated market will apportion economic costs more
equitably and efficiently through simple market economics)..

To understand the current state of tying prohibitions, please feel free
to read up on Sherman 1 and the "rule of reason" as it relates to
determining if a specific incidence of tying is prohibited.. In
particular, you'll want to check how rules on tying have been changed
since the 70's by court opinions from the original strict prohibition.
Then, I would suggest reading the Commercial Code of your state and few
others, along with opinions. It turns out that while the Feds have moved
away from strict prohibitions on tying, some states do attempt to
enforce their own prohibitions.

There, you have your citations...

If you want more, feel free to pay me, Paul, or someone else and I'm
sure you can be provided with a nice set of string cites to read beside
the fireplace and warm you on these cold winter nights.

What

Keith



"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/

"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Julian Thomas

>
> I see them on this forum, Photo.net, and others all the time.
> Many of them are the ones who, in desperation, are going
> to B-O printing or spending $500 for RIPs to tryo to get decent
> BW prints using CcMmYKk.

You
know this is soooo postmodern - you are evaluating systems by what people
say??!!!! You've not looked at prints??!!1 Stop wasting your time - go to a
lab who do piezo prints - buy an A4, go to a lambda lab - buy an A4. Make a
decision.

Julian

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Julian Thomas wrote:

>>I see them on this forum, Photo.net, and others all the time.
>>Many of them are the ones who, in desperation, are going
>>to B-O printing or spending $500 for RIPs to tryo to get decent
>>BW prints using CcMmYKk.
>>    
>>
>
>You
>know this is soooo postmodern - you are evaluating systems by what people
>say??!!!! You've not looked at prints??!!1 Stop wasting your time - go to a
>lab who do piezo prints - buy an A4, go to a lambda lab - buy an A4. Make a
>decision.
>
>Julian
>
>
>  
>
THANK YOU JULIAN!!!!

I find it almost oxymoronic that someone who is avowedly as PICKY as 
Peter is about prints would trust anyone else's evaluation..  Especially 
since I doubt he's seen prints by any of those commenting...  ;-)
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Clayton Jones wrote:

>What I want to know is whether Peter will do something besides
>complain about it.  I did something, in line with my limited
>capabilities, and promoting BO printing has kept at least a few I know
>of from giving up.  Since Peter is capable of writing printer drivers,
>perhaps he will roll up his sleeves and write a replacement driver
>that will make perfect continuous tone prints with the new MIS inks so
>easy a chimp could do it.  C'mon Peter...stop flappin yer gums and get
>to work.  DO something <GGG>.
>
>  
>
Having been fortunate to have met and photographed the immortal Coach 
John Wooden (when I served as photog for the Wooden Classic) two of his 
quotes strike me as particularly apt here:
 


"Do not let what you can't do interfere with what you can do."

and

paraphrased, replacing "athlete" with "artist:"


"The artist who says that something can't be done should never 
interrupt the one who's doing it."


 
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Although I haven't worked with any of the following individuals, you can 
add three other inspirational quotes for artists on the bleeding edge:

By Chuck Knox:
"Winners bring reality up to their vision. Losers bring their visions
down to reality."


from Paul Brown
"A winner never whines."

and from William Shakespeare:
"Trifles light as air
are to the jealous confirmations strong
As proofs of holy writ."


Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Julian Thomas

so what outcome are you expecting - shall we take a vote? why not see some
prints - the best you can get - otherwise this is a waste of bandwidth

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "peter nelson" <peter@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:30 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??


> At 09:38 AM 2/13/2003 +0000, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
> > >know this is soooo postmodern - you are evaluating systems by what
people
> > >say??!!!! You've not looked at prints??!!1 Stop wasting your time - go
to a
> > >lab who do piezo prints - buy an A4, go to a lambda lab - buy an A4.
> > >Make a decision.
>
>
> You haven't been following this thread, have you?
>
> I SAID that I have no doubt that SOME people can
> get good results with those techniques.  If the lab gives
> me good prints all that shows is that a full-time professional
> who has spent years learning to tweak his curves and play
> with his settings can do it.  It doesn't answer my question about
> having a simple, reliable system that *I* can use without
> spending tons of time climbing a long learning curve.  Or
> having to fiddle with every print for hours to get it right.
>
> I want to go into Photoshop, adjust my histogrom and
> curves so it looks good on my monitor, hit the OK button
> on the print dialog and have it print that way.
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Julian Thomas

> I want to go into Photoshop, adjust my histogrom and
> curves so it looks good on my monitor, hit the OK button
> on the print dialog and have it print that way.
>

I thought you said you know Photoshop - is that ALL you do for a good BW
print? As to output you don't want to softproof, match for different inks
and paper? Because of course in the wet darkroom all we do is turn the
enlarger on and develop the paper. Matching development to neg contrast
range etc etc is a waste of time huh? Matching paper type to developer etc
etc years of tests etc etc Dodging, burning, local contrast masking etc etc
we don't do - no sir!

Buy a printer and start doing some work instead of trying to pick an
argument with people who actually try stuff out.

Jeez - isn't there a list guideline about being tiresome? Someone kick this
guy off. Martin! Martin! I'm drowning under a welter of stupid posts
aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh gasp

julian

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Jerry Olson

It would be just GM or Honda to say your warranty wouldn't be covered if
you used third party parts. It just ain't legal!

Jerry

peter nelson wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> At 03:48 AM 2/13/2003 +0000, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
> >Peter, who are these "many" people who can't get high quality results
> >with MIS VM, Cone, and Mediastreet inks and the papers of their choice?
> 
> I see them on this forum, Photo.net, and others all the time.
> Many of them are the ones who, in desperation, are going
> to B-O printing or spending $500 for RIPs to tryo to get decent
> BW prints using CcMmYKk.
> 
> >This would be illegal to ban the use of third party inks.
> 
> You're the second person to make this bizarre claim.
> Please cite the applicable law.  I'm sure Epson had their lawyers
> review their warranty.
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Jerry Olson

I guess its frustrating to me, because although I've had a long learning
curve, I also know it is easy to get good prints from the VM MIS inkset.
 I must admit though, it did take a lot of testing of inks and papers to
get what I like. Anything this complex will require a learning curve
though... we shouldn't be surprised at it.  Problem is that so many of
us are SO picky, that other people don't even see what we're talking
about. Your prints aren't all that dotty. Just hold them about half a
foot away and there's no dots. But then again, there are a lot of people
who probably have a lot better eyesight than I do.

Jerry




"Clayton Jones " wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Hello Jerry,
> 
> >Peter, who are these "many" people who can't get high quality
> >results with MIS VM, Cone, and Mediastreet inks and the papers
> >of their choice?
> 
> Me, for one, and Steve K.  We both struggled unsuccessfully with MIS
> inks and various workflows/curves, etc.  His response, because he is a
> superb inventor and dedicated tinkerer, was to make his own ink set.
> My response, because I'm not a tinkerer, was to retreat to BO
> printing, as Peter says, "in desperation".  The fact that I saw others
> at the point of desperation and ready to quit is why I wrote the
> articles and began talking up BO printing. I agree with Peter - it
> shouldn't have to be so difficult.
> 
> What I want to know is whether Peter will do something besides
> complain about it.  I did something, in line with my limited
> capabilities, and promoting BO printing has kept at least a few I know
> of from giving up.  Since Peter is capable of writing printer drivers,
> perhaps he will roll up his sleeves and write a replacement driver
> that will make perfect continuous tone prints with the new MIS inks so
> easy a chimp could do it.  C'mon Peter...stop flappin yer gums and get
> to work.  DO something <GGG>.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

BO Matermerism!

2003-02-13 by Ed Mathews

Well now, this sucks.  I just got my 1280.  I must sat the quality of
the prints are much better than they were with my old 740, and the BO
printing is very acceptable, yielding barely visible dots on matte paper
and almost dot-free prints on premium glossy.  HOWEVER, using black
only, the prints have a decidedly greenish cast under daylight.  This is
with the standard Epson cartridge.  In my old 740 I used 3'rd party
cheap ink, but at least the black only prints were neutral.  Has anyone
ever seen this with just black ink?

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

[Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by plnelson2003 <peter@studio-nelson.com>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > I want to go into Photoshop, adjust my histogrom and
> > curves so it looks good on my monitor, hit the OK button
> > on the print dialog and have it print that way.

> As to output you don't want to softproof, match for 
> different inks and paper? 

No.  For black and white printing I'm happy to use 
one set of inks and one kind of paper.   If my curves and
histogram are set right I expect 0 to print as perfectly
black, 255 to print as perfectly white, and consistent
relationship in between.    If my monitor is and printer
are profiled corectly I expect the print to look like what
I see on the screen.

I can already do this in color.

Re: BO Matermerism!

2003-02-13 by Clayton Jones <cj@cjcom.net>

Hello Ed,

>...using black only, the prints have a decidedly greenish cast 
>under daylight.  This is with the standard Epson cartridge.  

It's the Epson ink.  Try a cart of MIS FS/VM black.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

[Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by julianthomas221259 <julianthomas@terra.e

Not only that jerry, I dont see th epoint. Give 5 wet printers a neg 
and you'll get 5 different prints. The 'ol 'neg is the score' quote 
from AA. Also it shows a pretty limited knoweldge of the medium. One 
of the best BW inkjet printers in the game is Jon Cone. His recent 
workflow post to the piezo list showed exactly how many basic steps 
are required - and that is with a perfect neg and no 'interpretation'.

My question to Peter still stands though - what result is he 
expecting - whatever anyone says to him, there will always be someone 
saying something else. So he needs to do tests for himself.

Julian


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I believe that is many years off.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> > I want to go into Photoshop, adjust my histogrom and
> > curves so it looks good on my monitor, hit the OK button
> > on the print dialog and have it print that way.

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Jerry Olson

Yup, this is absolutely true. Given a good printer, photoshop, and a 
really good file, I believe 10 photographers would
come up with ten different prints, all of them quite nice.  There are SO 
many ways to print a negative!

Anybody ever given any thought to what will replace inkjet printing? 
(Just for fun) :)

Jer





julianthomas221259 wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Not only that jerry, I dont see th epoint. Give 5 wet printers a neg 
> and you'll get 5 different prints. The 'ol 'neg is the score' quote 
> from AA. Also it shows a pretty limited knoweldge of the medium. One 
> of the best BW inkjet printers in the game is Jon Cone. His recent 
> workflow post to the piezo list showed exactly how many basic steps 
> are required - and that is with a perfect neg and no 'interpretation'.
> 
> My question to Peter still stands though - what result is he 
> expecting - whatever anyone says to him, there will always be someone 
> saying something else. So he needs to do tests for himself.
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Olson 
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> 
>>I believe that is many years off.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>>I want to go into Photoshop, adjust my histogrom and
>>>curves so it looks good on my monitor, hit the OK button
>>>on the print dialog and have it print that way.
>>
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Kevin Gulstene

Julian-
>
> One of the best BW inkjet printers in the game is Jon Cone. His recent
> workflow post to the piezo list showed exactly how many basic steps
> are required - and that is with a perfect neg and no 'interpretation'.
>

I have not followed the piezo list for a while.  Do you recall 
approximately when Jon made this post?  I'd be interested in reading it.

--
Kevin Gulstene

Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW printing??

2003-02-13 by Julian Thomas

Me neither _ I keep dipping in, like here. About 2-3 weeks ago I think. One
of the things I'd forgotten was that he doesn't move his shadow endpoint in
in levels but does it using masks and layers to get max shadow details and
that loooooooong grey scale.

Julian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Gulstene" <kevin@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW
printing??


> Julian-
> >
> > One of the best BW inkjet printers in the game is Jon Cone. His recent
> > workflow post to the piezo list showed exactly how many basic steps
> > are required - and that is with a perfect neg and no 'interpretation'.
> >
>
> I have not followed the piezo list for a while.  Do you recall
> approximately when Jon made this post?  I'd be interested in reading it.
>
> --
> Kevin Gulstene
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: WHEN will we get simple.... Cone workflow --

2003-02-13 by Kevin Gulstene

Julian-

Thanks, I found it.  For anyone else interested, it is message 20895 in 
the yahoo piezography3000 list.

--
Kevin
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 12:13  PM, Julian Thomas wrote:

> Me neither _ I keep dipping in, like here. About 2-3 weeks ago I 
> think. One
> of the things I'd forgotten was that he doesn't move his shadow 
> endpoint in
> in levels but does it using masks and layers to get max shadow details 
> and
> that loooooooong grey scale.
>
> Julian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Gulstene" <kevin@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] : Re: WHEN will we get simple, reliable BW
> printing??
>
>
>> Julian-
>>>
>>> One of the best BW inkjet printers in the game is Jon Cone. His 
>>> recent
>>> workflow post to the piezo list showed exactly how many basic steps
>>> are required - and that is with a perfect neg and no 
>>> 'interpretation'.
>>>
>>
>> I have not followed the piezo list for a while.  Do you recall
>> approximately when Jon made this post?  I'd be interested in reading 
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Gulstene
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
>> and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
>> to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
> same
> page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
>> keep
> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
>> header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
>> various
> resources on the homepage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: BO Matermerism!

2003-02-14 by Johnny Eades <jeades1@sc.rr.com>

Hello Ed,

I just started learning about BO printing a few weeks ago and ran 
into the same thing you have. The solution for my printer, a Canon 
s750, was to create a paper profile of plain paper so my printer 
would think I was printing only text and thus use only the black 
cartridge. I learned to use plain paper profile because all the 
prints up to then had that bluish-green cast to them too. I also 
check the selection for color management to Manual instead of Auto 
so it wouln't think it had to manage any color ink. My little 
printer is not as sophisticated as a high level Epson, so I think it 
presumes a little too much at times. 


Your friend in photography.

Johnny Eades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
<ed@l...> wrote:
> Well now, this sucks.  I just got my 1280.  I must sat the quality 
of
> the prints are much better than they were with my old 740, and the 
BO
> printing is very acceptable, yielding barely visible dots on matte 
paper
> and almost dot-free prints on premium glossy.  HOWEVER, using black
> only, the prints have a decidedly greenish cast under daylight.  
This is
> with the standard Epson cartridge.  In my old 740 I used 3'rd party
> cheap ink, but at least the black only prints were neutral.  Has 
anyone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> ever seen this with just black ink?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.