Digital BW, The Print

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
  performance of this new scanner.
  Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find plenty of
  them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can see
  in the following image:

  http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg

  I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
  finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I feared).
  Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test, but
  feel free to ask for further information.

  The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I made
  with the Epson:

  http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg

  all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a Canon
  FS 4000.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:23
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


Alessandro

An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the 3200 now,
especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the scanner with
the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100 black and white
scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye they are not
that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing distance.

Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are mounting the
images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the platten or have you
fabricated a glass carrier?

Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

Simon
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
  performance of this new scanner.
  Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find plenty
of
  them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can see
  in the following image:

  http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg> &size=lg

  I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
  finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I feared).
  Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test, but
  feel free to ask for further information.

  The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I
made
  with the Epson:

  http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg> &size=lg

  all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a
Canon
  FS 4000.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Simon,

  step-by-step:

  1) Put the epson carrier on the glass. I think that if you skip this step
  the scanner may have problems in calibrating.
  2) Put a few drops of fluid on the glass, in the 4x5" area. My first try was
  2 drops, but this is barely enough to cover the 6x7 surface: with 4 you get
  some fluid overflowing, but that's not a big issue. 
  3) Place one edge of the film down on the fluid, then gently bend the film
  to avoid air being trapped (in my first attempt I got a couple air bubbles,
  and they are definitely visible in the final scan).
  4) Scan away.
  5) Remove the film. The fluid very quickly evaporates. Kami say that it
  leaves no residues, both on film and on glass: this isn't completely true,
  but I don't feel it's a problem.

  BTW I started these tests to verify whether focus plane was on glass, or
  where the carrier keeps the film, or anywhere in between. Laying the film on
  the glass with no fluid gives NO better results on my scanner, and generates
  Newton rings. So the better quality I get with the KAMI isn't due to
  focusing, but to the fluid itself.

  Alessandro

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
  Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:23
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Alessandro

  An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the 3200 now,
  especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the scanner with
  the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100 black and white
  scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye they are not
  that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing distance.

  Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are mounting the
  images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the platten or have you
  fabricated a glass carrier?

  Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

  Simon
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Alessandro Pardi 
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
    Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
    performance of this new scanner.
    Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find plenty
  of
    them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can see
    in the following image:

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg> &size=lg

    I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
    finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I feared).
    Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test, but
    feel free to ask for further information.

    The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I
  made
    with the Epson:

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg> &size=lg

    all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a
  Canon
    FS 4000.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:57
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


Alessandro

Great!  I shall get some Kami fluid and try to emulate your success.    I
take it that absolutley flat film is required, or does the surface tension
of the fluid keep it flat?  Also, how do you get alignment of the frame to
be scanned?  It seems that it might be difficult to get the frame square in
the mddle of the 4"x5" frame.

Regards.

Simon
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Simon,

  step-by-step:

  1) Put the epson carrier on the glass. I think that if you skip this step
  the scanner may have problems in calibrating.
  2) Put a few drops of fluid on the glass, in the 4x5" area. My first try
was
  2 drops, but this is barely enough to cover the 6x7 surface: with 4 you
get
  some fluid overflowing, but that's not a big issue. 
  3) Place one edge of the film down on the fluid, then gently bend the film
  to avoid air being trapped (in my first attempt I got a couple air
bubbles,
  and they are definitely visible in the final scan).
  4) Scan away.
  5) Remove the film. The fluid very quickly evaporates. Kami say that it
  leaves no residues, both on film and on glass: this isn't completely true,
  but I don't feel it's a problem.

  BTW I started these tests to verify whether focus plane was on glass, or
  where the carrier keeps the film, or anywhere in between. Laying the film
on
  the glass with no fluid gives NO better results on my scanner, and
generates
  Newton rings. So the better quality I get with the KAMI isn't due to
  focusing, but to the fluid itself.

  Alessandro

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
  Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:23
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Alessandro

  An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the 3200 now,
  especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the scanner
with
  the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100 black and
white
  scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye they are not
  that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing distance.

  Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are mounting
the
  images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the platten or have
you
  fabricated a glass carrier?

  Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

  Simon
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Alessandro Pardi 
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
    Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
    performance of this new scanner.
    Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find plenty
  of
    them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can
see
    in the following image:

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> 
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg> &size=lg>
&size=lg

    I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
    finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I feared).
    Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test,
but
    feel free to ask for further information.

    The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I
  made
    with the Epson:

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> 
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg> &size=lg>
&size=lg

    all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a
  Canon
    FS 4000.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Alessandro Pardi" <alessandro.pardi@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


Simon

I think that even the most curled film would behave with the
fluid. As for
positioning the film, with 6x7 in the 4x5 area you have plenty of
room (the
only issue may be getting it vertically and horizontally aligned,
but you
can always rotate it in Photoshop). If you scan 4x5 you probably
need a
custom carrier (but then again, I didn't personally verify that
the epson
*needs* the carrier to perform calibration).

Alessandro

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
Sent: marted\ufffd 4 marzo 2003 10:57
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


Alessandro

Great!  I shall get some Kami fluid and try to emulate your
success.    I
take it that absolutley flat film is required, or does the
surface tension
of the fluid keep it flat?  Also, how do you get alignment of the
frame to
be scanned?  It seems that it might be difficult to get the frame
square in
the mddle of the 4"x5" frame.

Regards.

Simon
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Alessandro Pardi
  To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com'
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Simon,

  step-by-step:

  1) Put the epson carrier on the glass. I think that if you skip
this step
  the scanner may have problems in calibrating.
  2) Put a few drops of fluid on the glass, in the 4x5" area. My
first try
was
  2 drops, but this is barely enough to cover the 6x7 surface:
with 4 you
get
  some fluid overflowing, but that's not a big issue.
  3) Place one edge of the film down on the fluid, then gently
bend the film
  to avoid air being trapped (in my first attempt I got a couple
air
bubbles,
  and they are definitely visible in the final scan).
  4) Scan away.
  5) Remove the film. The fluid very quickly evaporates. Kami say
that it
  leaves no residues, both on film and on glass: this isn't
completely true,
  but I don't feel it's a problem.

  BTW I started these tests to verify whether focus plane was on
glass, or
  where the carrier keeps the film, or anywhere in between.
Laying the film
on
  the glass with no fluid gives NO better results on my scanner,
and
generates
  Newton rings. So the better quality I get with the KAMI isn't
due to
  focusing, but to the fluid itself.

  Alessandro

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
  Sent: marted\ufffd 4 marzo 2003 10:23
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Alessandro

  An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the
3200 now,
  especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the
scanner
with
  the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100
black and
white
  scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye
they are not
  that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing
distance.

  Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are
mounting
the
  images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the
platten or have
you
  fabricated a glass carrier?

  Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

  Simon
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Alessandro Pardi
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
    Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be
interested in the
    performance of this new scanner.
    Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can
find plenty
  of
    them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it.
As you can
see
    in the following image:

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299>
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg>
&size=lg>
&size=lg

    I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the
trouble of both
    finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than
I feared).
    Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain
the test,
but
    feel free to ask for further information.

    The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests,
I mean) I
  made
    with the Epson:

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580>
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg>
&size=lg>
&size=lg

    all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm
scanned with a
  Canon
    FS 4000.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The
page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
messages to keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@...]
Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 14:31
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results




 <snip>
 
I tried to find a sweet spot for focusing with the 3200. It seems
not to exist, there's very little difference between the
glassplate and up to the surface of the scannerframe that is 3 mm
higher. The film in the carriers is at 1 mm from the glass
surface. Similar report is found at:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/epson3200/index.html
<http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/epson3200/index.html> 

Wonder whether there's any need for wetmounting on the Epson like
I do on the Nikon 8000. The dynamic range of the Epson is more
limited and with wetmounting the contrast increases. Any sign
that slide or B&W film scanning clips more with wetmounting on
the 3200 ?

 <snip> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Alessandro Pardi" <alessandro.pardi@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


Alessandro,

>I agree about the focus issue: this scanner seems to have a very
good DOF.<

I would have preferred a better sharpness with less DOF if it is
a result of a compromise in the optical design.

Kami is distributed by Aztek in the USA, by Kami in Markt
Erlbach/Germany and by Kimoto in London/UK. If the last is still
correct.

http://www.kami-produkte.de/english/start.html

Ernst

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: colingruk <cconway@...> 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 2:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Lamb" 
  <simon@s...> wrote:
  > Alessandro
  > 
  > Great!  I shall get some Kami fluid and try to emulate your 
  success.    

  Hi, Simon,

  If you find a source in Europe, preferably the UK, please let me 
  know.  I seem to remember that even in the US the minimum quantity 
  might be quite large.  

  Cheers,

  Colin

  P.S.  I gave up on the original Piezo inks and now happily use MIS FS 
  and the Randall curves.  When I think of the ink I used in cleaning 
  cycles, windex etc.  Shoulda listened to and heeded you from the 
  outset.

  Colin




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "colingruk" <cconway@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Simon
Lamb"
> <simon@s...> wrote:
> > Colin
> >
> > There is a source in Wimbledon in the UK.  Haynes.  Call +44
20
> 8949 5411 and ask for David.  They sell it in 1 litre plastic
bottles
> and also the Kami wipes in a 300 wipe roll.
> >
> > Simon
>
> Thanks, Simon,
>
> With Kami's website info I found the dealer in Athens.  I litre
> bottles only - I might try some ouzo!

Get lighter fluid. I use it but can't recommend it for USA users
as I always get flamed afterwards from that country for showing
irresponsible behaviour by giving an advice like that. Medical,
hazard and environmental issues usually. Never get the logic why
I get flamed by people that use 200 % more petrol per head than
the rest of the world. Asbest overall and gasmask on now.

Ernst

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@chello.nl]
Sent: mercoledì 5 marzo 2003 10:40
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results



----- Original Message -----
From: "colingruk" <cconway@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Simon
Lamb"
> <simon@s...> wrote:
> > Colin
> >
> > There is a source in Wimbledon in the UK.  Haynes.  Call +44
20
> 8949 5411 and ask for David.  They sell it in 1 litre plastic
bottles
> and also the Kami wipes in a 300 wipe roll.
> >
> > Simon
>
> Thanks, Simon,
>
> With Kami's website info I found the dealer in Athens.  I litre
> bottles only - I might try some ouzo!

Get lighter fluid. I use it but can't recommend it for USA users
as I always get flamed afterwards from that country for showing
irresponsible behaviour by giving an advice like that. Medical,
hazard and environmental issues usually. Never get the logic why
I get flamed by people that use 200 % more petrol per head than
the rest of the world. Asbest overall and gasmask on now.

Ernst




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Alessandro Pardi" <alessandro.pardi@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


>Well, getting flamed for suggesting lighter fluid seems the
obvious
consequence ;-)<

I have some hope it will fly over, I've heard they are short on
petrol now....

Ernst

> Ernst,
> Seems that Kami mounting fluid SXL 2001 is also highly flammable. And 
> it leaves no residue: therefore it evaporates. It could'nt be lighter 
> fluid could it ? Naw, that wouldnt be responsible...But still it's 
> highly flammable!
> Cheers,
> Andre
> 
> ----------------
> From Kami's site:
> ----------------
> SXL 2001 / Scanner Mounting Fluid with anti-static properties
> The Product:
> Graphic Arts Scanner Mounting Fluid. A petroleum based product with 
> high anti-static properties. SXL Scanner Mounting Fluid is non-toxic, 
> non cacinogenic, however, highly flammable. Compliance to OSHA 
> Standards, EPA approved. Use only for scannerdrums made of 
> acrylmaterial.

> non cacinogenic, however, highly flammable. Compliance to OSHA 
> Standards, EPA approved. Use only for scannerdrums made of 
> acrylmaterial.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sceptre12345 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  >From Kodak's site there is a definition of flammable. 
  http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/hse/solvent.jhtml

  Flash Point (FP) - This is the minimum temperature at which a liquid 
  gives off vapors in sufficient concentrations to form an ignitable 
  mixture with air as determined by Uniform Fire Code Standard 9-1 & 9-
  2. A chemical is called flammable if its flash point is less than 100 
  degrees F, and combustible if the flash point is greater than 100 
  degrees F. The use of chemicals with flash points requires additional 
  safety considerations.

  Also, seems that lighter fluid is also naphta. The things you learn 
  on this forum!
  Cheers,
  Andre

  > 
  > Ernst,
  > Seems that Kami mounting fluid SXL 2001 is also highly flammable. 
  And 
  > it leaves no residue: therefore it evaporates. It could'nt be 
  lighter 
  > fluid could it ? Naw, that wouldnt be responsible...But still it's 
  > highly flammable!
  > Cheers,
  > Andre
  > 
  > ----------------
  > From Kami's site:
  > ----------------
  > SXL 2001 / Scanner Mounting Fluid with anti-static properties
  > The Product:
  > Graphic Arts Scanner Mounting Fluid. A petroleum based product with 
  > high anti-static properties. SXL Scanner Mounting Fluid is non-
  toxic, 
  > non cacinogenic, however, highly flammable. Compliance to OSHA 
  > Standards, EPA approved. Use only for scannerdrums made of 
  > acrylmaterial.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From Kodak's site there is a definition of flammable. 
> http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/hse/solvent.jhtml
> 
> Flash Point (FP) - This is the minimum temperature at which a liquid 
> gives off vapors in sufficient concentrations to form an ignitable 
> mixture with air as determined by Uniform Fire Code Standard 9-1 & 9-
> 2. A chemical is called flammable if its flash point is less than 100 
> degrees F, and combustible if the flash point is greater than 100 
> degrees F. The use of chemicals with flash points requires additional 
> safety considerations.
> 
> Also, seems that lighter fluid is also naphta. The things you learn 
> on this forum!
> Cheers,
> Andre
> 
> > 
> > Ernst,
> > Seems that Kami mounting fluid SXL 2001 is also highly flammable. 
> And 
> > it leaves no residue: therefore it evaporates. It could'nt be 
> lighter 
> > fluid could it ? Naw, that wouldnt be responsible...But still it's 
> > highly flammable!
> > Cheers,
> > Andre
> > 
> > ----------------
> > From Kami's site:
> > ----------------
> > SXL 2001 / Scanner Mounting Fluid with anti-static properties
> > The Product:
> > Graphic Arts Scanner Mounting Fluid. A petroleum based product with 
> > high anti-static properties. SXL Scanner Mounting Fluid is non-
> toxic, 
> > non cacinogenic, however, highly flammable. Compliance to OSHA 
> > Standards, EPA approved. Use only for scannerdrums made of 
> > acrylmaterial.

From: "sceptre12345" <am1000@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


> From Kodak's site there is a definition of flammable.
> http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/hse/solvent.jhtml
>
> Flash Point (FP) - This is the minimum temperature at which a
liquid
> gives off vapors in sufficient concentrations to form an
ignitable
> mixture with air as determined by Uniform Fire Code Standard
9-1 & 9-
> 2. A chemical is called flammable if its flash point is less
than 100
> degrees F, and combustible if the flash point is greater than
100
> degrees F. The use of chemicals with flash points requires
additional
> safety considerations.

I've done some tests with a negative film that wasn't good
anyway. Left the sandwich of scannerglass/film/polyester and
lighter fluid in between all for 24 hours on the scanner. First
there's hardly any fluid evaporated, didn't notice discoloring
either. Skin fat could be the slight haze that is left on the
film, could also be that the lighter fluid has a lower grade of
distillation than the pro mounting fluids. If the film will be
used for scans only there isn't a problem. Wet mounting has more
advantages than just getting the film flat, it fills all the
scratches, gives a better optical path through the layers and
when care is taken should give less dust as a glass mounted film.
On skin fat: in the old days the darkroom man would rub a finger
along the side of his nose and apply it on the negative to fill
the scratches, there's no need to that with wet mounting. Wonder
whether that ecologically correct advice attracts more flames.

Ernst

From: "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] mounting fluid


> > BTW, the word on the street is that they will leave less of a
residue
> > if you touch the film less  (i.e. the more oil from your
fingers gets
> > mixed with the fluid, the more streaks will be left behind)
So when you
> > remove the wet film, don't touch the fluid and hold it only
by the
> > edge.
> >
> > -mh
>
>
> That was my statement. I found with drum scanning if I pullled
off the film from the drum with my fingers my skin oil would be
wicked onto the film creating streaks. If I just let the film
fall onto a cleaning cloth without touching the film the film
dried streak free. This is with Kami fluid -  it dries in a few
seconds - no fuss, no muss. <

There's something else I have no experience with but should be
possible: if it is very humid the filmemulsion may attract moist
from the air just after the fluid has evaporated. Condensation on
the film's cooled surface. So putting it back in a polyester
sleeve right away may not be a good idea. Do you have any
experience with that ?

Ernst

> > That was my statement. I found with drum scanning if I pullled
> off the film from the drum with my fingers my skin oil would be
> wicked onto the film creating streaks. If I just let the film
> fall onto a cleaning cloth without touching the film the film
> dried streak free. This is with Kami fluid -  it dries in a few
> seconds - no fuss, no muss. <
> 
> There's something else I have no experience with but should be
> possible: if it is very humid the filmemulsion may attract moist
> from the air just after the fluid has evaporated. Condensation on
> the film's cooled surface. So putting it back in a polyester
> sleeve right away may not be a good idea. Do you have any
> experience with that ?
> 
> Ernst

From: "mh" <mh@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] mounting fluid


> I've never had film that evaporated perfectly enough to be put away
> with no cleaning whatsoever. I usually plan on some streaks so try and
> cut them off at the pass by spraying both sides down with film cleaner
> (prazio) and then wiping with a wipe (prazio ultra wipes are the same
> as the fotex kind).  I do all of them at once (leaving them out on a
> wipe) before putting any back in a sleeve. That is more out of
> convenience than as a precaution.
>
>    I have yet to be completely satisfied with my process and have been
> known to put some negatives away with streaks if I don't care about
> them too much.
>

I use a similar procedure and materials. I drop the negs on a clean wipe,
spray the top with Prazio film cleaner and wipe it off with a second wipe. I
then flip the negs onto a clean wipe and repeat the cleaning. I find that if
I am getting some streaks just repeating the process using clean wipes will
take care of the problem. Most clean up in the first pass but everything has
cleaned up after at least three applications of cleaner.

It appears that there is a relationship to how long you leave the negs
mounted in contact with the oil and how easy they are to clean afterwards.

Martin Wesley

From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <stevek@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir
> Kabelik" <artcoreproductions@s...> wrote:
> > Hello Ernst!
> >
> > I am following very carefully this discussion since, as you
well
> know,
> > I am ready to jump and buy the Epson 3200 (finally, they
arrived to
> > Toronto). Before I do so, one more question:
> >
> > In Canada and US this scanner comes in two packages:
> > Epson Perfection 3200 Photo and Epson Perfection 3200 Pro.
> > The only difference is the addition of:
> >
> > *SilverFast AI 6 software (over SE 6 version)
> > *ArcSoft Suite
> > *Monaco EZ Color SW
> > *and IT8 Targets
> >
> > The price difference is approximately $300.00
>
>
> >
> > My question is whether the SW package is worth it, since the
> scanner
> > itself seems to be identical. Well, I do not have any
experience
> > with the above software, do you???

> Hi Vlad;
>
> Arcsoft is probably worthless, I never bothered to even try it,
but
> if you do color printing and don't have profiling sodtware, the
> Monaco is a good place to start, though there is a catch: It
works a
> lot better if you have the monitor sensor, which is another
$300.00?
>
> The Silverfast is more difficult to use than the Epson driver,
but
> it has a major advantage: it will make the scanner do multiple
> passes, which is an excellent feature for scanning color negs
as it
> removes much of the 'grain' that color negs often produce. It
also
> has MUCH better color editing features than the Epson. The
price for
> those two is $320 USD, so you're not saving much; In fact, if
you
> check the Silverfast website you may be able to ugrade the SE
and
> save a little!

So the cheaper package comes bundled with Silverfast SE 6 ?

It has been my experience that Silverfast SE is better on colour
than the Epson software. However with reflectance scanning the
contrast is too high in auto exposure but that can be controlled.
I have some experience with the full Silverfast version for the
Nikon 8000 and in that case I prefer NikonScan even with the
flaws that program has. Maybe there's just too much Silverfast on
the screen with the full program.Vuescan with the 3200 is not
very compatible in my experience so far but that will get better
(could be me even). I've set my hopes on that package. Next to
NikonScan that's the one I use on the Nikon.

No experience with ArcSoft Suite and Monaco EZ Color SW. For the
PC there are some free scanner calibration packages
www.littlecms.com . Targets from Wolf Staub are cheap and good
(Silverfast's targets could even be from his stable, at least his
targets are quoted in Silverfast docs). Good monitor calibration
software with a puck did become a lot cheaper over the last two
years. It probably will be the same $ 320 USD together. This is a
B&W list so I have no knowledge what you actually need. The Pro
version is almost a turnkey solution but I agree with Steve that
monitor calibration may be more important in the first place and
that isn't included. If you got a solution for that already then
it is a choice between saving money and convenience.

If the choice was the same in Europe I would have bought the
photo version and in fact that's the only option here so I didn't
create any doubts :-). I have Vuescan, a free scanner calibration
package + some targets, Prove It! + the Spectrocam. The last can
be replaced with equal results by Colorvision's Spyder + software
if no printer profiles have to be made.

Ernst

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:08 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Simon

  I think that even the most curled film would behave with the fluid. As for
  positioning the film, with 6x7 in the 4x5 area you have plenty of room (the
  only issue may be getting it vertically and horizontally aligned, but you
  can always rotate it in Photoshop). If you scan 4x5 you probably need a
  custom carrier (but then again, I didn't personally verify that the epson
  *needs* the carrier to perform calibration).

  Alessandro

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@sclamb.com]
  Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:57
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Alessandro

  Great!  I shall get some Kami fluid and try to emulate your success.    I
  take it that absolutley flat film is required, or does the surface tension
  of the fluid keep it flat?  Also, how do you get alignment of the frame to
  be scanned?  It seems that it might be difficult to get the frame square in
  the mddle of the 4"x5" frame.

  Regards.

  Simon
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Alessandro Pardi 
    To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 AM
    Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Simon,

    step-by-step:

    1) Put the epson carrier on the glass. I think that if you skip this step
    the scanner may have problems in calibrating.
    2) Put a few drops of fluid on the glass, in the 4x5" area. My first try
  was
    2 drops, but this is barely enough to cover the 6x7 surface: with 4 you
  get
    some fluid overflowing, but that's not a big issue. 
    3) Place one edge of the film down on the fluid, then gently bend the film
    to avoid air being trapped (in my first attempt I got a couple air
  bubbles,
    and they are definitely visible in the final scan).
    4) Scan away.
    5) Remove the film. The fluid very quickly evaporates. Kami say that it
    leaves no residues, both on film and on glass: this isn't completely true,
    but I don't feel it's a problem.

    BTW I started these tests to verify whether focus plane was on glass, or
    where the carrier keeps the film, or anywhere in between. Laying the film
  on
    the glass with no fluid gives NO better results on my scanner, and
  generates
    Newton rings. So the better quality I get with the KAMI isn't due to
    focusing, but to the fluid itself.

    Alessandro

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
    Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:23
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Alessandro

    An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the 3200 now,
    especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the scanner
  with
    the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100 black and
  white
    scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye they are not
    that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing distance.

    Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are mounting
  the
    images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the platten or have
  you
    fabricated a glass carrier?

    Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

    Simon
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Alessandro Pardi 
      To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
      Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


      Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
      performance of this new scanner.
      Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find plenty
    of
      them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can
  see
      in the following image:

      http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg> &size=lg>
  &size=lg

      I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
      finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I feared).
      Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test,
  but
      feel free to ask for further information.

      The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I
    made
      with the Epson:

      http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg> &size=lg>
  &size=lg

      all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a
    Canon
      FS 4000.


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 -----Original Message-----
From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
Sent: mercoledì 12 marzo 2003 14:53
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results



Alessandro

Do you have any other images to share to show the results of oil mounting?
I haven't got my fluid yet so I have not been able to try it out.

Thanks.

Simon
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:08 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Simon

  I think that even the most curled film would behave with the fluid. As for
  positioning the film, with 6x7 in the 4x5 area you have plenty of room
(the
  only issue may be getting it vertically and horizontally aligned, but you
  can always rotate it in Photoshop). If you scan 4x5 you probably need a
  custom carrier (but then again, I didn't personally verify that the epson
  *needs* the carrier to perform calibration).

  Alessandro

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
  Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:57
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Alessandro

  Great!  I shall get some Kami fluid and try to emulate your success.    I
  take it that absolutley flat film is required, or does the surface tension
  of the fluid keep it flat?  Also, how do you get alignment of the frame to
  be scanned?  It seems that it might be difficult to get the frame square
in
  the mddle of the 4"x5" frame.

  Regards.

  Simon
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Alessandro Pardi 
    To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 AM
    Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Simon,

    step-by-step:

    1) Put the epson carrier on the glass. I think that if you skip this
step
    the scanner may have problems in calibrating.
    2) Put a few drops of fluid on the glass, in the 4x5" area. My first try
  was
    2 drops, but this is barely enough to cover the 6x7 surface: with 4 you
  get
    some fluid overflowing, but that's not a big issue. 
    3) Place one edge of the film down on the fluid, then gently bend the
film
    to avoid air being trapped (in my first attempt I got a couple air
  bubbles,
    and they are definitely visible in the final scan).
    4) Scan away.
    5) Remove the film. The fluid very quickly evaporates. Kami say that it
    leaves no residues, both on film and on glass: this isn't completely
true,
    but I don't feel it's a problem.

    BTW I started these tests to verify whether focus plane was on glass, or
    where the carrier keeps the film, or anywhere in between. Laying the
film
  on
    the glass with no fluid gives NO better results on my scanner, and
  generates
    Newton rings. So the better quality I get with the KAMI isn't due to
    focusing, but to the fluid itself.

    Alessandro

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
    Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:23
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Alessandro

    An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the 3200 now,
    especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the scanner
  with
    the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100 black and
  white
    scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye they are
not
    that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing distance.

    Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are mounting
  the
    images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the platten or have
  you
    fabricated a glass carrier?

    Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

    Simon
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Alessandro Pardi 
      To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
      Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


      Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
      performance of this new scanner.
      Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find
plenty
    of
      them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can
  see
      in the following image:

      http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> 
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> > 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> 
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg> &size=lg>
&size=lg>
  &size=lg

      I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
      finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I
feared).
      Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test,
  but
      feel free to ask for further information.

      The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I
    made
      with the Epson:

      http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> 
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> > 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> 
  < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg> &size=lg>
&size=lg>
  &size=lg

      all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a
    Canon
      FS 4000.


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@...]
Sent: mercoledì 12 marzo 2003 16:10
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


Alessandro:

>a) Forget what I wrote in the message below: the fluid alone (at
least Kami)
doesn't keep curled film flat. My 6x7 negs are *very* slightly
bent, but
just enough to make the corners raise, and this results in a
white line in
the scan corresponding to the rim of the wet area of the film.
The solution
I found is to lay the film down the other way, so that the
corners push down
rather than up (the curls aren't obviously strong enough to lift
the whole
film). I noticed no difference in scans whether the fluid  is on
the
emulsion side or on the other side.

b) Carefully as I lay the film, I still get the occasional very
tiny air
bubble in the fluid, very hard to detect at naked eye before
scanning, quite
visible in the scan as a brighter area with a much brighter
border. Nothing
that a local burn and the clone tool can't get rid of, still a
bit annoying
(may even force to rescan should it be in a highly detailed area
of the
image where cloning is not a option, e.g. the face of a person).<

A larger sheet of polyester foil taped down over the film really
helps in positioning. A polyethylene squeegee makes it easier to
get the air bubbles out. You can mount the film with more force
without damaging the emulsion as there is the polyester on top.
Put a temporary polyester sheet on top of  all to avoid
scratching of the other poly foil. Take it away before the scan.
See: http://members.chello.nl/e.dinkla/MF_FM_carrier.htm
<http://members.chello.nl/e.dinkla/MF_FM_carrier.htm> 


>c) I seem to get high noise in deep shadows. I'd like to
investigate a bit
before drawing conclusions, as Portra400BW is reportedly a low
density film,
so there should be no problems (especially considering your good
results
with Velvia!). Next roll I shoot I'll try following Tony
Dummett's advice
(look here for details
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=281355
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=281355> 
< http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=281355
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=281355> > ) where he
suggests to
rate B&W chromogenics at 100ASA rather than 400 exactly to avoid
grainy and
noisy shadows.<

Correct but don't call it noise. If it is in the film itself it
is just revealed by the wetmounting, contrast is going up and
sharpness as well so what is in the film will be shown. Noise is
an artefact of the CCD.

Pity that the Carabinieri don't drive Moto Guzzi anymore, loved
to see the Falcones pass on the autostrada.

Ernst







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alessandro Pardi 
  To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:29 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


  Simon,

  I have scanned a few more images, but I no longer made tests to compare
  results w/ and w/o fluid: I just use it. I have, anyway, something to
  report:

  a) Forget what I wrote in the message below: the fluid alone (at least Kami)
  doesn't keep curled film flat. My 6x7 negs are *very* slightly bent, but
  just enough to make the corners raise, and this results in a white line in
  the scan corresponding to the rim of the wet area of the film. The solution
  I found is to lay the film down the other way, so that the corners push down
  rather than up (the curls aren't obviously strong enough to lift the whole
  film). I noticed no difference in scans whether the fluid  is on the
  emulsion side or on the other side.
  b) Carefully as I lay the film, I still get the occasional very tiny air
  bubble in the fluid, very hard to detect at naked eye before scanning, quite
  visible in the scan as a brighter area with a much brighter border. Nothing
  that a local burn and the clone tool can't get rid of, still a bit annoying
  (may even force to rescan should it be in a highly detailed area of the
  image where cloning is not a option, e.g. the face of a person).
  c) I seem to get high noise in deep shadows. I'd like to investigate a bit
  before drawing conclusions, as Portra400BW is reportedly a low density film,
  so there should be no problems (especially considering your good results
  with Velvia!). Next roll I shoot I'll try following Tony Dummett's advice
  (look here for details http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=281355
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=281355> ) where he suggests to
  rate B&W chromogenics at 100ASA rather than 400 exactly to avoid grainy and
  noisy shadows.

  Alessandro

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
  Sent: mercoledì 12 marzo 2003 14:53
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results



  Alessandro

  Do you have any other images to share to show the results of oil mounting?
  I haven't got my fluid yet so I have not been able to try it out.

  Thanks.

  Simon
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Alessandro Pardi 
    To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:08 AM
    Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Simon

    I think that even the most curled film would behave with the fluid. As for
    positioning the film, with 6x7 in the 4x5 area you have plenty of room
  (the
    only issue may be getting it vertically and horizontally aligned, but you
    can always rotate it in Photoshop). If you scan 4x5 you probably need a
    custom carrier (but then again, I didn't personally verify that the epson
    *needs* the carrier to perform calibration).

    Alessandro

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@...]
    Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:57
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


    Alessandro

    Great!  I shall get some Kami fluid and try to emulate your success.    I
    take it that absolutley flat film is required, or does the surface tension
    of the fluid keep it flat?  Also, how do you get alignment of the frame to
    be scanned?  It seems that it might be difficult to get the frame square
  in
    the mddle of the 4"x5" frame.

    Regards.

    Simon
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Alessandro Pardi 
      To: 'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com' 
      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 AM
      Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


      Simon,

      step-by-step:

      1) Put the epson carrier on the glass. I think that if you skip this
  step
      the scanner may have problems in calibrating.
      2) Put a few drops of fluid on the glass, in the 4x5" area. My first try
    was
      2 drops, but this is barely enough to cover the 6x7 surface: with 4 you
    get
      some fluid overflowing, but that's not a big issue. 
      3) Place one edge of the film down on the fluid, then gently bend the
  film
      to avoid air being trapped (in my first attempt I got a couple air
    bubbles,
      and they are definitely visible in the final scan).
      4) Scan away.
      5) Remove the film. The fluid very quickly evaporates. Kami say that it
      leaves no residues, both on film and on glass: this isn't completely
  true,
      but I don't feel it's a problem.

      BTW I started these tests to verify whether focus plane was on glass, or
      where the carrier keeps the film, or anywhere in between. Laying the
  film
    on
      the glass with no fluid gives NO better results on my scanner, and
    generates
      Newton rings. So the better quality I get with the KAMI isn't due to
      focusing, but to the fluid itself.

      Alessandro

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Simon Lamb [mailto:simon@sclamb.com]
      Sent: martedì 4 marzo 2003 10:23
      To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


      Alessandro

      An impressive result.  I am getting some great scans from the 3200 now,
      especially since I swapped to Silverfast Ai and calibrated the scanner
    with
      the reflective and transparent targets.  Even the Delta 100 black and
    white
      scans are much better.  To the untrained and non-critical eye they are
  not
      that different from the Flextight Photo at normal viewing distance.

      Can you provide some step by step instructions for how you are mounting
    the
      images you scanned.  Are you using fluid direclty on the platten or have
    you
      fabricated a glass carrier?

      Thanks for working to show how scans can be improved.

      Simon
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Alessandro Pardi 
        To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:05 AM
        Subject: [Digital BW] Epson3200 - Test results


        Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I thought some may be interested in the
        performance of this new scanner.
        Tests I made are not comparison with other scanners (you can find
  plenty
      of
        them on the web), but simply how to get the best out of it. As you can
    see
        in the following image:

        http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> > 
      < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299> 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1341299&size=lg> &size=lg>
  &size=lg>
    &size=lg

        I found that the Kami fluid SXL 2001 is well worth the trouble of both
        finding it and using it (it's a bit messy, although less than I
  feared).
        Technical details in the photo.net page should fully explain the test,
    but
        feel free to ask for further information.

        The following is the first "real" scan (not including tests, I mean) I
      made
        with the Epson:

        http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> > 
      < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580> 
    < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580
  <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1339580&size=lg> &size=lg>
  &size=lg>
    &size=lg

        all other photographs in my photo.net folders are 35mm scanned with a
      Canon
        FS 4000.


    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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