Digital BW, The Print

Jim, there are a couple of CIS systems now available for the 2200. Are
you or will you be using one of these?

and if you do, would you be using the MIS ultratone inks? Maybe the
printheads have been improved on the 2200. They should have done
SOMEthing to it to justify it's much higher price. Perhaps the printhead
is much more industrial strength than the 1280?

I'm getting pretty fed up with all the clogging and banding with the CIS
systems, considering how little problem this is with the epson inks and
cartridges.  But I just cannot and will not pay 70 percent more for
epson inks. I'm too much of a tightwad. And also, they STILL don't make
an inkset for just black and white prints.

Jerry



jim hayes wrote:

> 
> I've been reading a lot about Eboni ink clogging in 1280 this morning,
> after a few days hiatus from the group.
> 
> I think it's far far too early to speculate if this is a problem or not.
> 
> Forgive me if I repeat some from previous posts.
> 
> I will throw out one observation I've been making over the past three
> months: My 2200 with Epson UC ink is nearly clog free. I have ruined
> six prints due to banding, a very small number, and it hasn't happened
> for awhile. I've only had to do maybe 4-6 head cleanings in three
> months to get perfect nozzle checks. I check the nozzles maybe every
> week to ten days and they almost always are perfect.
> 
> My 1280 used to run standard VM inks in it and I would check the
> nozzles twice a day. Roughly 1/4 of the time the nozzle check wasn't
> good. So obviously I ran lot's of cleaning cycles.
> 
> Since then I put Epson carts back in and turn the 1280 on and run a
> nozzle check every week. Roughly 1/2 of the time I get a bad nozzle
> check that takes 2 or three cleanings to clear- or some times I have
> to let it sit overnight. It not confined to the k ink- any color can
> go bad.
> 
> That's quite a difference in maintainance 2200 vs 1280, esp
> considering I now have original Epson DYE ink in the 1280.
> 
> Perhaps there is old VM residue in the 1280 head. Or my environment is
> just too tough on printheads. I do have a C62 printer as well that has
> always had OEM dye in it and it clogs regularly too.
> 
> Something about the 2200 resists clogging. I don't know what it is.
> Even dye ink in the 1280 gives trouble. I don't know why.
> 
> I'm not implying anything here I hope- more like I have open questions
> about the behavior of these two printers sitting side by side that I
> can't resolve. I don't know what would happen if one put Eboni ink in
> 2200 or Epson UC ink in 1280...
> Jim H.
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Olson
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Jim, there are a couple of CIS systems now available for the 2200. Are
> you or will you be using one of these?
>

No plans at the moment. I feel in my environment they don't work well
past about three months in 1280 so don't want to risk it in 2200. I
used mainly self-filled carts in the 1280 with standard VM.
 
> and if you do, would you be using the MIS ultratone inks?

They don't have the inkset set up for the 2200 do they? I was thinking
of trying them (they are the 4.35, alais "eboni" inkset right?) in the
1280 as carts only that I either fill myself or buy from MIS if
possible. Now, I may wait a month to see how it works for others. 

 Maybe the
> printheads have been improved on the 2200.


The We-Ink folks told me once that they thought the 2000P head was
better designed for pigment than the 1160/1280, apparently something
to do with more gentle angles for the ink flow "plumbing" through the
heads. But I can't confirm this, it's really rumor to me. I really
don't know about the 2200. I DO know that something funny is going on
near the parking pad...there's some sort of little wiper that moves in
and out during a clean or charging cycle- much different than the 1280.

Other than this I have no clue as to why the 2200 seems so problem
free vs my 1280 with Epson dye ink.

 They should have done
> SOMEthing to it to justify it's much higher price. Perhaps the printhead
> is much more industrial strength than the 1280?

Again, I don't know. I ventured a guess above, but no facts to base it
on. I have questions, no answers.

> 
> I'm getting pretty fed up with all the clogging and banding with the CIS
> systems, considering how little problem this is with the epson inks and
> cartridges.

I hear you. Except with me, I also have some degree of problems just
trying to run OEM carts in 1280. Not as bad as VM inkset though.


  But I just cannot and will not pay 70 percent more for
> epson inks. I'm too much of a tightwad. And also, they STILL don't make
> an inkset for just black and white prints.



Yes this is the BIG problem. IP5 (or alternate RIP or workflow) needs
to come down in price and use a modifed Epson 2200 inkset maybe- I
speculate that if just the Y cart was swapped for a light grey, the
quality of BW prints on 2200 would improve vastly. Think of it as
swapping out one cart to switch from color to BW-just like is now done
with photo k to mat k in 2200 when going from RC to mat paper.

And yes the Epson ink carts get expensive. I am nowhere near high
volume, an occasional printer. In three months I have gone through 6
carts and am about to replace another two, which equals about $70-$80,
more than five months plus of MIS VM standard inkset in 4 oz bottles.

Still, I don't have to fuss with chip resetting/blowing out, cart
filling, clogging, more clogging, etc. It really is easy to operate
this printer but it comes at a price, both $$ and dots in highlights.
Jim H.

> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> jim hayes wrote:
> > 
> > I've been reading a lot about Eboni ink clogging in 1280 this morning,
> > after a few days hiatus from the group.
> > 
> > I think it's far far too early to speculate if this is a problem
or not.
> > 
> > Forgive me if I repeat some from previous posts.
> > 
> > I will throw out one observation I've been making over the past three
> > months: My 2200 with Epson UC ink is nearly clog free. I have ruined
> > six prints due to banding, a very small number, and it hasn't happened
> > for awhile. I've only had to do maybe 4-6 head cleanings in three
> > months to get perfect nozzle checks. I check the nozzles maybe every
> > week to ten days and they almost always are perfect.
> > 
> > My 1280 used to run standard VM inks in it and I would check the
> > nozzles twice a day. Roughly 1/4 of the time the nozzle check wasn't
> > good. So obviously I ran lot's of cleaning cycles.
> > 
> > Since then I put Epson carts back in and turn the 1280 on and run a
> > nozzle check every week. Roughly 1/2 of the time I get a bad nozzle
> > check that takes 2 or three cleanings to clear- or some times I have
> > to let it sit overnight. It not confined to the k ink- any color can
> > go bad.
> > 
> > That's quite a difference in maintainance 2200 vs 1280, esp
> > considering I now have original Epson DYE ink in the 1280.
> > 
> > Perhaps there is old VM residue in the 1280 head. Or my environment is
> > just too tough on printheads. I do have a C62 printer as well that has
> > always had OEM dye in it and it clogs regularly too.
> > 
> > Something about the 2200 resists clogging. I don't know what it is.
> > Even dye ink in the 1280 gives trouble. I don't know why.
> > 
> > I'm not implying anything here I hope- more like I have open questions
> > about the behavior of these two printers sitting side by side that I
> > can't resolve. I don't know what would happen if one put Eboni ink in
> > 2200 or Epson UC ink in 1280...
> > Jim H.
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim hayes" 
<jimhayes@f...> wrote:

> Yes this is the BIG problem. IP5 (or alternate RIP or workflow) 
needs
> to come down in price and use a modifed Epson 2200 inkset maybe-

In the samples I've compared the Epson RIP output was as good
as the IP5, but only cost $200.   See:
http://studio-nelson.com/inkjet/bw22001.htm
and especially
http://studio-nelson.com/inkjet/bw22003.htm

BTW, can someone explain WHY third-party inksets seem to 
have much worse clogging problems than the Epson inks?
I only use Epson inks and I've never had any significant
clogging with my 2200.  With my Epson 870 I once had a 
clog that took 3 cleaning cycles to fix, but that was 
after leaving the printer on without using it for a month.
Since remembering to turn it off when it's not in use I've
never had my 870 clog.

But it seems like every other post here is about head-clogging
with third-party inks.  What's up with the third-party ink 
makers that they can't get this through their heads?