Digital BW, The Print

Using CFS/CIS for 1160 quad carts; is there a preferred method 
for filling a new set? It seems there are two popular methods.

Is the bottom filling method presented by MIS for their inks 
preferable to the vacuum method? I think I remember reading 
some claims that there have been fewer start-up or clog 
problems with the bottom fill method.

Can anyone elaborate?

John

lewis-

i have tried both methods when refilling my 890 carts.
both seemed to work the same for me. however, the
bottom fill method is faster, at least for me. 

if i were going to be filling several cartridges at
once with the intent of storing some for later use, i
would use the vacuum fill method as it keeps the
cartridge sealed at the bottom, preventing leakage. 

cartridges that i have REfilled with the bottom fill
method tend to leak a bit when they sit in
storage--even with MIS' rivets sealing the ports off.
anyone have any ideas how to get around this? or do i
just live with a bit of dribble?

-m


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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lewis541b"
<lewiseye@e...> wrote:
> Using CFS/CIS for 1160 quad carts; is there a preferred method 
> for filling a new set? It seems there are two popular methods.
> 
> Is the bottom filling method presented by MIS for their inks 
> preferable to the vacuum method? I think I remember reading 
> some claims that there have been fewer start-up or clog 
> problems with the bottom fill method.
> 
> Can anyone elaborate?
> 
> John

I don't know if your getting confused or not. Maybe I am by your
question but I'll try to help. MIS in their CFS instructions tells you
to use vacuum method...their method differs a bit from CIS method, but
it's the same principle.

Now, if you have problems AFTER carts are installed, and it looks like
suspect pockets of air (i.e nozzle checks skips in random places not
in a consistant line or two....or nozzle is completely out...but Epson
carts work, etc), then you can repair the problem by the bottom
removal of ink and returning to bottle until air is gone. Only MIS
recommends this AFAIK, haven't seen it anywhere connected to CIS
instructions.

I have heard of bottom FILLING, but only compared to vacuum filling of
individual carts not CFS. I was told it is not as good as vacuum
filling for non CFS carts. MIS had this method prior to the apparatus
now present to vacuum fill non CFS carts. 

There is a big problem with bottom fill: if you bottom fill, the
screen/filter will not have a chance to protect the printhead since
you're introducing ink from the bottom of screen  upwards into cart.
All the clumps and garbage will be caught below the screen and enter
the head some fine day. Not good.

There is one advantage in bottom filling: if you have already broken
the seal at bottom and wish to reprime. However in this case it might
be worthwhile to draw ink/air out, rather than push it in, for the
reason mentioned above.

Also you run more risk of physical damage to the filter/screen by poking.
Jim H.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan Zinn
<AZinn@n...> wrote:

> >Guys,
> 
> I've been reading this thread and similar ones re clogs and filling 
> problems with CIS.  There is a better way. Have a look at my top-off
system 
> notes.  It works great - never a clog, well, hardly ever :-)  I use
MIS pig 
> inks. It's air not clogs most of the time  that causes 
> problems.   http://www.panoramacamera.us/m_topoff.html
> 
> AZ
> 
Excellent, I've bookmarked that in case I go back from 2200 to 1280,
or if  quad inks are ever devised for 2200. I had been thinking
something like that at one point but it was more messy- sawing off the
top and rinsing out sponges. You could do this to a virgin cart or
possibly rinse out an old Epson cart with a syringe with your method.
The advantage being that you get the poppet valve with 1280 carts.

I wasn't clear on whether you stopped the end of tubing after filling
or not, if so how?
Jim H.

At 09:55 PM 4/26/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lewis541b"
><lewiseye@e...> wrote:
> > Using CFS/CIS for 1160 quad carts; is there a preferred method
> > for filling a new set? It seems there are two popular methods.
> >
> > Is the bottom filling method presented by MIS for their inks
> > preferable to the vacuum method? I think I remember reading
> > some claims that there have been fewer start-up or clog
> > problems with the bottom fill method.
> >
> > Can anyone elaborate?
> >
> > John
>
>I don't know if your getting confused or not. Maybe I am by your
>question but I'll try to help. MIS in their CFS instructions tells you
>to use vacuum method...their method differs a bit from CIS method, but
>it's the same principle.
>
>Now, if you have problems AFTER carts are installed, and it looks like
>suspect pockets of air (i.e nozzle checks skips in random places not
>in a consistant line or two....or nozzle is completely out...but Epson
>carts work, etc), then you can repair the problem by the bottom
>removal of ink and returning to bottle until air is gone. Only MIS
>recommends this AFAIK, haven't seen it anywhere connected to CIS
>instructions.
>
>I have heard of bottom FILLING, but only compared to vacuum filling of
>individual carts not CFS. I was told it is not as good as vacuum
>filling for non CFS carts. MIS had this method prior to the apparatus
>now present to vacuum fill non CFS carts.
>
>There is a big problem with bottom fill: if you bottom fill, the
>screen/filter will not have a chance to protect the printhead since
>you're introducing ink from the bottom of screen  upwards into cart.
>All the clumps and garbage will be caught below the screen and enter
>the head some fine day. Not good.
>
>There is one advantage in bottom filling: if you have already broken
>the seal at bottom and wish to reprime. However in this case it might
>be worthwhile to draw ink/air out, rather than push it in, for the
>reason mentioned above.
>
>Also you run more risk of physical damage to the filter/screen by poking.
>Jim H.
>
>
>
>Guys,

I've been reading this thread and similar ones re clogs and filling 
problems with CIS.  There is a better way. Have a look at my top-off system 
notes.  It works great - never a clog, well, hardly ever :-)  I use MIS pig 
inks. It's air not clogs most of the time  that causes 
problems.   http://www.panoramacamera.us/m_topoff.html

AZ



Build a Lookaround!
The Lookaround Book.
http://www.panoramacamera.us

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim 
hayes" <jimhayes@f...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan 
Zinn
> <AZinn@n...> wrote:
> 
> > >Guys,
> > 
> > I've been reading this thread and similar ones re clogs and 
filling 
> > problems with CIS.  There is a better way. Have a look at my 
top-off
> system 
> > notes.  It works great - never a clog, well, hardly ever :-)  I
use
> MIS pig 
> > inks. It's air not clogs most of the time  that causes 
> > problems.   http://www.panoramacamera.us/m_topoff.html
> > 
> > AZ
> > 
> Excellent, I've bookmarked that in case I go back from 2200 to 
1280,
> or if  quad inks are ever devised for 2200. I had been thinking
> something like that at one point but it was more messy- 
sawing off the
> top and rinsing out sponges. You could do this to a virgin cart 
or
> possibly rinse out an old Epson cart with a syringe with your 
method.
> The advantage being that you get the poppet valve with 1280 
carts.
> 
> I wasn't clear on whether you stopped the end of tubing after 
filling
> or not, if so how?
> Jim H.

I use the MIS techique where you cut the top of the cart off and 
wash the sponges and fill from the bottom, its a little tricky in the 
cutting but no big deal.  I really like this idea and will have to
give 
it a try.   Let me ask a question, do you use a tie down on your 
carts so they don't jump out and do you leave the filler tubes 
open so that the air can get out and equalize the pressure inside 
the cart.  Super idea!

At 03:15 PM 4/27/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan Zinn
><AZinn@n...> wrote:
>
> > >Guys,
> >
> > I've been reading this thread and similar ones re clogs and filling
> > problems with CIS.  There is a better way. Have a look at my top-off
>system
> > notes.  It works great - never a clog, well, hardly ever :-)  I use
>MIS pig
> > inks. It's air not clogs most of the time  that causes
> > problems.   http://www.panoramacamera.us/m_topoff.html
> >
> > AZ
> >
>Excellent, I've bookmarked that in case I go back from 2200 to 1280,
>or if  quad inks are ever devised for 2200. I had been thinking
>something like that at one point but it was more messy- sawing off the
>top and rinsing out sponges. You could do this to a virgin cart or
>possibly rinse out an old Epson cart with a syringe with your method.
>The advantage being that you get the poppet valve with 1280 carts.
>
>I wasn't clear on whether you stopped the end of tubing after filling
>or not, if so how?
>Jim H.
>
>
>Jim,

Jim,
I think new carts are so inexpensive they are the only sensible choice. The 
fill tubing is left open to equalize air pressure.  I was printing today 
and marveling at how have had no problems with the system. Glad you found 
the info useful.

AZ

At 07:20 PM 4/27/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim
>hayes" <jimhayes@f...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan
>Zinn
> > <AZinn@n...> wrote:
> >
> > > >Guys,
> > >
> > > I've been reading this thread and similar ones re clogs and
>filling
> > > problems with CIS.  There is a better way. Have a look at my
>top-off
> > system
> > > notes.  It works great - never a clog, well, hardly ever :-)  I
>use
> > MIS pig
> > > inks. It's air not clogs most of the time  that causes
> > > problems.   http://www.panoramacamera.us/m_topoff.html
> > >
> > > AZ
> > >
> > Excellent, I've bookmarked that in case I go back from 2200 to
>1280,
> > or if  quad inks are ever devised for 2200. I had been thinking
> > something like that at one point but it was more messy-
>sawing off the
> > top and rinsing out sponges. You could do this to a virgin cart
>or
> > possibly rinse out an old Epson cart with a syringe with your
>method.
> > The advantage being that you get the poppet valve with 1280
>carts.
> >
> > I wasn't clear on whether you stopped the end of tubing after
>filling
> > or not, if so how?
> > Jim H.
>
>I use the MIS techique where you cut the top of the cart off and
>wash the sponges and fill from the bottom, its a little tricky in the
>cutting but no big deal.  I really like this idea and will have to
>give
>it a try.   Let me ask a question, do you use a tie down on your
>carts so they don't jump out and do you leave the filler tubes
>open so that the air can get out and equalize the pressure inside
>the cart.  Super idea!
>
>
>------------------
Jim,
I just jam some mat board shims between the carts. The tube is left open 
for equalization.  I suppose each type of printer will need its own 
method.  I'm looking forward to hearing how someone uses the top-off system 
on a 1280.

AZ



Build a Lookaround!
The Lookaround Book.
http://www.panoramacamera.us