Digital BW, The Print

I am currently using Permajet VT Blax inks (rebranded MIS mono inks) 
and am looking at a CIS; either the Lyson system (small gamut) or the 
Permaflow VT Blax(MIS rebranded).

What I am looking for is some comparisons between the 2 such clogging 
experiences and quality of the final image.  I have been fairly 
pleased with the VT balx apart from when I take the cartridge out it 
introduces an air block which I cannot shift.

Thanks

Gareth

www.imagesoflife.co.uk

The Lyson SG inks are reported to have significant metamerism, and
prints I've seen from exchanges seem to confirm that. Make sure you
check some actual prints before you buy.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: garethlock4472 [mailto:gareth.lock@...] 
> Sent: 7. juni 2003 12:04
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] MIS Inks vs Lyson Small Gamut
> 
> 
> I am currently using Permajet VT Blax inks (rebranded MIS mono inks) 
> and am looking at a CIS; either the Lyson system (small gamut) or the 
> Permaflow VT Blax(MIS rebranded).
> 
> What I am looking for is some comparisons between the 2 such clogging 
> experiences and quality of the final image.  I have been fairly 
> pleased with the VT balx apart from when I take the cartridge out it 
> introduces an air block which I cannot shift.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gareth
> 
www.imagesoflife.co.uk



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Permajet inks also have metamerism on glossy paper but have nothing 
on matt.

I think this is a problem with all pigment inks on glossy 
paper....anyone else expand.  If I am limited to dye inks on glossy, 
how easy to get the holy grail of neutral black and whites using 
Lyson Fotonic inks?

Gareth

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" 
<daniel@p...> wrote:
> The Lyson SG inks are reported to have significant metamerism, and
> prints I've seen from exchanges seem to confirm that. Make sure you
> check some actual prints before you buy.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: garethlock4472 [mailto:gareth.lock@b...] 
> > Sent: 7. juni 2003 12:04
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] MIS Inks vs Lyson Small Gamut
> > 
> > 
> > I am currently using Permajet VT Blax inks (rebranded MIS mono 
inks) 
> > and am looking at a CIS; either the Lyson system (small gamut) or 
the 
> > Permaflow VT Blax(MIS rebranded).
> > 
> > What I am looking for is some comparisons between the 2 such 
clogging 
> > experiences and quality of the final image.  I have been fairly 
> > pleased with the VT balx apart from when I take the cartridge out 
it 
> > introduces an air block which I cannot shift.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Gareth
> > 
> www.imagesoflife.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various

> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "garethlock4472" 
<gareth.lock@b...> wrote:
> I am currently using Permajet VT Blax inks (rebranded MIS mono 
inks) 
> and am looking at a CIS; either the Lyson system (small gamut) or 
the

The meteramism with Lyson inks is unacceptable, IMO
 
> Permaflow VT Blax(MIS rebranded).

BTW, I was speaking to PermaJet and they deny that their inks are MIS 
rebranded.

Nick

Hi Gareth

I think it's one of my personal missions in life to try and ensure 
that anyone planning on using Small Gamut inks does not. Never mind 
the metamerism, which is bad, for me and many others (but not all, it 
seems) the prints will shift green over the months, so if you care 
about permanence, go with the MIS inks. There's no contest. 

Nick.

..........

Gareth-

There is more than the usual hostility toward LSG inks here today <g>.

Like many other options for BW printing, it seems to work great for 
some, worse or not at all for others. 

I've been using LSG with a CIS system in an 1160 for over a year and 
have made some wonderful prints with it. no metamerism and fade tests 
show it to be more permanent than epson oem ink.

As with all inks, the ink/paper combo will often determine one's 
satisfaction with the ink.

Lyson SG is generally clog free.

That said, it can be somewhat quirky and there is no really usable 
WYSIWYG workflow, so some of the toning is really trial and error.

What ever ink you go with, I would strongly urge you to try a few 
carts first (even if the air bubbles are a problem with the carts, 
you will be able to see what the ink looks like on papers you like).

As you can see from other posts...mileage may vary <g>.

cheers,

Tom O'Connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "garethlock4472" 
<gareth.lock@b...> wrote:
> I am currently using Permajet VT Blax inks (rebranded MIS mono 
inks) 
> and am looking at a CIS; either the Lyson system (small gamut) or 
the 
> Permaflow VT Blax(MIS rebranded).
> 
> What I am looking for is some comparisons between the 2 such 
clogging 
> experiences and quality of the final image.  I have been fairly 
> pleased with the VT balx apart from when I take the cartridge out 
it 

> introduces an air block which I cannot shift.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gareth
> 
> www.imagesoflife.co.uk

Dear friend:

I have tried MIS VM inks and Lyson SG. I have to say that I didn't 
like at all MIS. Why: mainly because the restriction of not being 
able to print on glossy or pearl surfaces. They were but dead 
neutral with no metamerism. But I don't know the prints I made with 
MIS inks were so different to my traditional darkroom prints. And 
that's what I am looking for. Some people see the beauty of this new 
process as it's own. But I just try to get close to the traditional 
feel of a darkroom photograph.

Lyson Small Gamut: Well very different inks that MIS VM. They suit 
perfect for glossy papers. No problems in here but download their 
profile for glossy and on epson printers always check on photo 
quality film whatever glossy paper you use. On the other hand you 
can tint your prints wich is really great, so you have always the 
tone you want. On the bad side: metamerism: yes the ugly beast is 
here again. Not so bad as with Epson OEM inks buty quite noticeable. 
And yes I have seen that on some papers photos turn green quite 
fast. Right now I will change to Ilford Classic because of that. I 
can tell you that this inks with ilford papers have totally the 
feeling of a traditional photo. But I am still looking that someday 
I will be able to print without metamerism on glossy papers and with 
excellent longevity. The moment is not here yet but the new 
piezography might be a great step in that direction

Cristian






--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "garethlock4472" 
<gareth.lock@b...> wrote:
> I am currently using Permajet VT Blax inks (rebranded MIS mono 
inks) 
> and am looking at a CIS; either the Lyson system (small gamut) or 
the 
> Permaflow VT Blax(MIS rebranded).
> 
> What I am looking for is some comparisons between the 2 such 
clogging 
> experiences and quality of the final image.  I have been fairly 
> pleased with the VT balx apart from when I take the cartridge out 
it 

> introduces an air block which I cannot shift.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gareth
> 
> www.imagesoflife.co.uk

The new Peizography is still pigmented inks, so the issue of printing on
glossy papers, which I need to do, does not yet exist.   I fine the
metamorph with Small Gamut quite noticeable, though it can be toned to not
be as awful as the Lyson Quad Blacks.

Up to this point I have yet to see or hear of the digital glossy print that
equals a good darkroom glossy in all areas.  Its a shame because Photoshop
gives us so much control.

Rick

I too am looking for good quality B&W on glossy papers, and THOUGHT I read, 
when it was first announced, that the new Piezo stuff is supposed to work 
on glossy.  I've got the new MIS UltraTone pigments and they do work on 
glossy paper, so it is technically possible.  Anybody else remember the way 
I do about the new Piezo, or know the opposite?

Cheers,
Kip

At 6/8/2003 06:37 PM -0700, you wrote:

>The new Peizography is still pigmented inks, so the issue of printing on
>glossy papers, which I need to do, does not yet exist.   I fine the
>metamorph with Small Gamut quite noticeable, though it can be toned to not
>be as awful as the Lyson Quad Blacks.
>
>Up to this point I have yet to see or hear of the digital glossy print that
>equals a good darkroom glossy in all areas.  Its a shame because Photoshop
>gives us so much control.
>
>Rick