Digital BW, The Print

See my answers below...
  * How exactly would you describe these prints, ie. "silver gelatin", 
  "cibachrome", etc.? Would you just call them "inkjet"? I've always 
  been a bit amused at how "serious" the technical descriptions 
  are at some shows. Would you say "inkjet print on coated 
  acid-free watercolor paper"? Or would you get more honest and 
  just say "Inkjet Dye Print on Watercolor Paper. I'd give it maybe 
  ten years..."  I guess these descriptions are to address a 
  potential buyers' concerns with longevity, (or is it just to make 
  them sound more important)?

  I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon Piezotypes but too many questions were raised.

  * I have asked the framer to use UV glass. Is there anything else 
  in the framing process to add longevity? 

  No, not really.  When I frame my prints, I prefer big borders, so a 12x12" print would be hinge mounted (4-ply archival, museum white with linen tape) in a 20"x20" matte.

  * Do most people decide on an edition number in advance? Do 
  you think that's a big issue, since I'm not a "real artist"?

  Yes, it is an issue.  Galleries and museums like editions (check out the last issue of LensWork for a great article about why you shouldn't edition).




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If it is not too late, have your framer use UV Plexi...it will cost you a
fortune to ship glass, if you can even get any carrier to take it.

> From: Jennifer Drucker <jdrucker@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:23:42 -0400
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules
> 
> See my answers below...
> * How exactly would you describe these prints, ie. "silver gelatin",
> "cibachrome", etc.? Would you just call them "inkjet"? I've always
> been a bit amused at how "serious" the technical descriptions
> are at some shows. Would you say "inkjet print on coated
> acid-free watercolor paper"? Or would you get more honest and
> just say "Inkjet Dye Print on Watercolor Paper. I'd give it maybe
> ten years..."  I guess these descriptions are to address a
> potential buyers' concerns with longevity, (or is it just to make
> them sound more important)?
> 
> I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon Piezotypes but
> too many questions were raised.
> 
> * I have asked the framer to use UV glass. Is there anything else
> in the framing process to add longevity?
> 
> No, not really.  When I frame my prints, I prefer big borders, so a 12x12"
> print would be hinge mounted (4-ply archival, museum white with linen tape) in
> a 20"x20" matte.
> 
> * Do most people decide on an edition number in advance? Do
> you think that's a big issue, since I'm not a "real artist"?
> 
> Yes, it is an issue.  Galleries and museums like editions (check out the last
> issue of LensWork for a great article about why you shouldn't edition).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
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Mark Tucker wrote:

> * How exactly would you describe these prints, ie. "silver gelatin",
> "cibachrome", etc.? Would you just call them "inkjet"? I've always
> been a bit amused at how "serious" the technical descriptions
> are at some shows. Would you say "inkjet print on coated
> acid-free watercolor paper"? Or would you get more honest and
> just say "Inkjet Dye Print on Watercolor Paper.

The way the museums are handling this, is by calling them: 'inkjet prints'.  But then, if you like you can add
more info.  Akin to: 'selenium toned silver gelatin print'.  Whether it be pigment ink, or the type of paper
you use, if you think it's relevant.

> * I have asked the framer to use UV glass. Is there anything else
> in the framing process to add longevity?

Do not used 'buffered' mat boards, the buffering is very bad for inkjet inks (of all types).  These days, most
framed shows use plexi instead of glass (weight and breakage).

> * Do most people decide on an edition number in advance? Do
> you think that's a big issue, since I'm not a "real artist"?

It is a marketing decision, not an 'artistic' one.  Commonly, fine art photographers (contemporary) issue
editions of 5 to 15.   That said, I don't edition my prints (silver), that I sell via my dealer.

> * Any advice on how to ship about thirty 30'x30" framed prints?
> Do people build those plywood boxes and send them in those?
> It's a long drive from Nashville to SF, so driving them there is
> probably not an option

Usually, large plywood boxes, with plenty of packing....Although new cardboard could work for one round-trip.
And remember the weight and fragility issue about plexi vs. glass. If you use glass you might consider putting
'Xs' of tape across the glass to prevent damage to the prints if they break.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jennifer Drucker wrote:

> I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon Piezotypes but too many questions were
> raised.

But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints' that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The problem is there are too many variations of 'inkjet'.  I am trying to keep it simple.  I may rethink calling them Piezotypes since pushing the technology may not be such a bad idea.  

- Jennifer

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SKID Photography 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 10:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules


  Jennifer Drucker wrote:

  > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon Piezotypes but too many questions were
  > raised.

  But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints' that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
  Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.

  Harvey Ferdschneider
  partner, SKID Photography, NYC


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm calling mine Carbon Pigment Quadtones - if they want more detail I'll
give it, but pushing Piezo first and 'inkjet' second.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Drucker" <jdrucker@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules


> The problem is there are too many variations of 'inkjet'.  I am trying to
keep it simple.  I may rethink calling them Piezotypes since pushing the
technology may not be such a bad idea.
>
> - Jennifer
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: SKID Photography
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 10:37 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules
>
>
>   Jennifer Drucker wrote:
>
>   > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon
Piezotypes but too many questions were
>   > raised.
>
>   But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints'
that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
>   Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
>
>   Harvey Ferdschneider
>   partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>

Snip>>Mark Tucker writes:
> I just feel like if/when someone asks me how the prints were 
> > made, my body will immediately begin to shrivel up, and I won't 
> > stand straight, and I'll look down at the floor, and start to pace 
> > around, and I'll mumble "..

These are an exciting new look in Photographic prints. No other print process 
can replicate the look of these specialty carbon pigment inks on Rag papers. 
Its because of this look that I choose to make the prints this way. A cross 
between Platinum and Silver, a revolutionary print media all its own. A 
beauty that cannot be achieved by other methods. Prints are  Handmade with 
specialty engineered carbon pigment inks for longest display life. I would 
tend to avoid terms like digital and inkjet, but if comes up I can say 
digital gives me a finer transfer of information from the negative to the 
paper! more true interpretation of the image and a finer print as a bonus! 
This technique gives me prints I can live with rather than submitting a 
lesser quality silver print, and that makes me feel bad.
These are the kinds of thoughts I would be thinking. If the viewer, gallery 
curator or whom ever senses a lack of confidence from the photographer it 
certainly won't help.
Forge ahead and be confident. As a photographer/artist I'm interested in 
producing the best prints I'm capable of, and use the latest technology has 
to offer.
After all that, I can say my ink has been rejected and silver accepted even 
when the curator admitted the ink prints where better. But hey things change 
fast, the same dealer requested some, and sold some ink last month. Customer 
liked the look better after seeing my quadtone piezo book that I left behind.
Steve Meyers





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jennifer,
They are *still* all a form of inkjet printing...like it or not.  The rest is just window dressing.  You
should not feel the need to justify your use of inkjet technology.

The whole concept behind labeling them is to give the viewer the most basic information....not brand names.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

Jennifer Drucker wrote:

> The problem is there are too many variations of 'inkjet'.  I am trying to keep it simple.  I may rethink
> calling them Piezotypes since pushing the technology may not be such a bad idea.
>
>
>   Jennifer Drucker wrote:
>
>   > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon Piezotypes but too many questions were
>   > raised.
>
>   But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints' that use carbon pigment inks.
> 'Carbon
>   Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
>
>   Harvey Ferdschneider
>   partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Again, The reason for labeling is not to promote one brand over another, it is to give basic information.
Museums, which I would consider 'the last word' on this sort of thing (Museums being the most branding
neutral, and academically oriented) calls them 'inkjet prints' (first), and then other information *follows*
that.  The point is clear information, not branding or any other commercial promotion.

By going down the 'branding' road, we put ourselves in the same position of that group that trademarked the
name 'Giclee', this clearly has *nothing* to do with art, and is totally a commerce issue.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


Julian Thomas wrote:

> I'm calling mine Carbon Pigment Quadtones - if they want more detail I'll
> give it, but pushing Piezo first and 'inkjet' second.
>
>
> > The problem is there are too many variations of 'inkjet'.  I am trying to
> >keep it simple.  I may rethink calling them Piezotypes since pushing the
> >technology may not be such a bad idea.
> >
> > - Jennifer
> >
> >
> >   Jennifer Drucker wrote:
> >
> >   > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon
> Piezotypes but too many questions were
> >   > raised.
> >
> >   But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints'
> that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
> >   Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
> >
> >   Harvey Ferdschneider
> >   partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography <skid@b...> wrote:
> Again, The reason for labeling is not to promote one brand over another, it is to give basic information.
> Museums, which I would consider 'the last word' on this sort of thing (Museums being the most branding
> neutral, and academically oriented) calls them 'inkjet prints' (first), and then other information *follows*
> that.  The point is clear information, not branding or any other commercial promotion.
> 
> By going down the 'branding' road, we put ourselves in the same position of that group that trademarked the
> name 'Giclee', this clearly has *nothing* to do with art, and is totally a commerce issue.
> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC

Harvey, I guess I'm not understanding you reference to branding. Aren't carbon pigments simply the material making up 
the image, like platinum, or toned gelatin silver?
Tyler

Tyler Boley wrote:

> I call them carbon pigment quadtone prints. Isn't that what they are?
> I didn't think how it got on the paper was usually part of the
> description, and I want them to have images of little mustached men...
> I have had to try to name any color inkjet prints yet.
> Tyler

They are 'inkjet prints' made with carbon pigment inks, and further, your particular prints use 4 different
colors (of grey?).

With serigraphy, you will never see mentioned how many colors were used, same with color etchings...they not
only don't say how many inks are used, they don't say what type of inks they either.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good advice Nina!

No head hanging allowed by Piezographers!

Steadman

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ncm 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 1:57 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules


  Mark,

  >Maybe I should take 
  >my G4 and my 7000 and rent an old musty warehouse with big 
  >metal-pane windows, and have romantic light constantly 
  >streaming in, and classical music playing, and have little men 
  >with handlebar moustaches and aprons running around with ink 
  >on their hands; maybe I'd feel better about the whole printmaking 
  >mystique.

  I love that image (g).

  >I know I shouldn't feel this way, because I've received many 
  >comments on my prints; I think most people are struck by the 
  >non-glossy watercolor paper. I secretly wish I could come up 
  >with some vague, haughty description, and I like Nina's above, 
  >that completely obscures the computer's role.

  Well, I don't try to hide the fact particularly. Was just trying to find 
  a short vaguely descriptive name. Some people couldn't care less - either 
  they like the images or not. If anyone asked (and lots did) I explained 
  exactly how it's done and the reactions were amazed, intrigued and 
  extremely positive - and this from museum curators, art critics and 
  photographers, among others. So I wouldn't worry. I waxed enthusiastic... 
  because I *am* enthusiastic about Piezo and its depth - almost 3D quality 
  - or for example the wonderful fine art paper options normal darkroom 
  printing doesn't offer (unless you coat your own or do other alternative 
  processes). Hell, man be positive about the process! No head hanging or 
  foot shuffling allowed (g).

  Cheers,

  Nina




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So I guess wet prints are accurately called Silver Halide Enlarger 
Prints?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography 
<skid@b...> wrote:
> Jennifer Drucker wrote:
> 
> > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon 
Piezotypes but too many questions were
> > raised.
> 
> But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet 
prints' that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon

> Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Preeeecisely!

You would be hard pressed to find a gallery selling "photographs" that does not say something like: 

Toned Gelatine Silver Print or "Platinum Print"...as it denotes the materials. 

Tyler wrote: (snip)

  Harvey, I guess I'm not understanding you reference to branding. Aren't carbon pigments simply the material making up 
  the image, like platinum, or toned gelatin silver?
  Tyler




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harvey, 

By that logic, 

how does "selenium toned silver gelatin print" describe the all important process of the "silver gelatin print"?

Harvey wrote: (snip)

The proper way (in my opinion) to get the 'type' of ink in the description, would be to call the print:
'Carbon Pigment Inkjet Print' (like a 'selenium toned silver gelatin print').  To call it simply a 'Carbon
Pigment Print' does not tell you the process; it could just as easily been done via an etching, serigraph,
photo gravure...Whatever.  It only tells you the ink, not the process.

Harvey Ferdschneider

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SKID Photography 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 5:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules


  Tyler Boley wrote:

  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography <skid@b...> wrote:
  > > Again, The reason for labeling is not to promote one brand over another, it is to give basic information.
  > > Museums, which I would consider 'the last word' on this sort of thing (Museums being the most branding
  > > neutral, and academically oriented) calls them 'inkjet prints' (first), and then other information
  > *follows*
  > > that.  The point is clear information, not branding or any other commercial promotion.
  > >
  > > By going down the 'branding' road, we put ourselves in the same position of that group that trademarked
  > the
  > > name 'Giclee', this clearly has *nothing* to do with art, and is totally a commerce issue.
  > >
  > > Harvey Ferdschneider
  > > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
  >
  > Harvey, I guess I'm not understanding you reference to branding. Aren't carbon pigments simply the material
  > making up
  > the image, like platinum, or toned gelatin silver?

  Tyler,
  By 'branding' I was referring to the 'Giclee', or calling the prints peizography prints' (Which for all
  intents and purposes is a brand name).  Also, calling an inkjet print made with carbon pigment inks, a 'Carbon
  Pigment Print', is reducing the description of the process and materials to a brand: 'Carbon Pigment Print'.

  The proper way (in my opinion) to get the 'type' of ink in the description, would be to call the print:
  'Carbon Pigment Inkjet Print' (like a 'selenium toned silver gelatin print').  To call it simply a 'Carbon
  Pigment Print' does not tell you the process; it could just as easily been done via an etching, serigraph,
  photo gravure...Whatever.  It only tells you the ink, not the process.

  Harvey Ferdschneider
  partner, SKID Photography, NYC



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tyler Boley wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography <skid@b...> wrote:
> > Again, The reason for labeling is not to promote one brand over another, it is to give basic information.
> > Museums, which I would consider 'the last word' on this sort of thing (Museums being the most branding
> > neutral, and academically oriented) calls them 'inkjet prints' (first), and then other information
> *follows*
> > that.  The point is clear information, not branding or any other commercial promotion.
> >
> > By going down the 'branding' road, we put ourselves in the same position of that group that trademarked
> the
> > name 'Giclee', this clearly has *nothing* to do with art, and is totally a commerce issue.
> >
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
> Harvey, I guess I'm not understanding you reference to branding. Aren't carbon pigments simply the material
> making up
> the image, like platinum, or toned gelatin silver?

Tyler,
By 'branding' I was referring to the 'Giclee', or calling the prints peizography prints' (Which for all
intents and purposes is a brand name).  Also, calling an inkjet print made with carbon pigment inks, a 'Carbon
Pigment Print', is reducing the description of the process and materials to a brand: 'Carbon Pigment Print'.

The proper way (in my opinion) to get the 'type' of ink in the description, would be to call the print:
'Carbon Pigment Inkjet Print' (like a 'selenium toned silver gelatin print').  To call it simply a 'Carbon
Pigment Print' does not tell you the process; it could just as easily been done via an etching, serigraph,
photo gravure...Whatever.  It only tells you the ink, not the process.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harvey, 

What if I use silver gelatin paper in my Epson 1160?  What then?

Are you aware that some papers sold for use in Inkjets are originally silver gelatin papers?  Available now.  

Have a good night and don't lose any sleep over what we call those thingamabobs. 

Steadman 

Harvey wrote: (SNIP)
  I might add, that by saying 'silver gelatin print', you are already giving the process.  There is no other
  printing process that incorporate silver gelatin papers.

  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography
  > <skid@b...> wrote:
  > > Jennifer Drucker wrote:
  > >
  > > > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon
  > Piezotypes but too many questions were
  > > > raised.
  > >
  > > But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet
  > prints' that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
  > > Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
  > >
  > > Harvey Ferdschneider
  > > partner, SKID Photography, NYC


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wiverson@... wrote:

> So I guess wet prints are accurately called Silver Halide Enlarger
> Prints?

No, 'silver gelatin print' or if you have: 'selenium toned silver gelatin print'.

I might add, that by saying 'silver gelatin print', you are already giving the process.  There is no other
printing process that incorporate silver gelatin papers.

And, of course, you can call your prints whatever you want.  But if you want to be helpful to people (now or
years in the future when you are not around to talk about them) who view your prints and want to comprehend
how they were produced, you will follow the method I described,.  If you want to bamboozle people into
thinking these are something that they are not.. Call them whatever you want.  Why put *any* description of
process on them  anyway?...It's to inform.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography
> <skid@b...> wrote:
> > Jennifer Drucker wrote:
> >
> > > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon
> Piezotypes but too many questions were
> > > raised.
> >
> > But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet
> prints' that use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
> > Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
> >
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Jennifer Drucker wrote:
>
> > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon
Piezotypes but too many questions were
> > raised.
>
> But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints' that
use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
> Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
>
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC

Ok, so a lithograph should be called a stone pulled print on paper, a
serigraph (spelling?) should be called a silk screen print on paper. As
artists we get too hung up on the technology and not the art for the arts
sake. What is wrong with Carbon Pigmented Prints on Paper, or Pigmented
Carbon Prints on Paper?

Jim Davis
http://www.visual-artists.com
davis.jarthur@...
Fine art printmaker

>

Well, there is a reason for not using Silver Gelatin papers after all...

But hey, what would you call that print...the one made with Carbon Pigmented inks (sprayed by the inkjet printer) on Silver Gelatin paper???  

Harvey wrote: (Snip)

"besides, if the silver was present it would discolor over time."

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SKID Photography 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 7:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules


  Steadman Uhlich wrote:

  > Harvey,
  >
  > What if I use silver gelatin paper in my Epson 1160?  What then?
  >
  > Are you aware that some papers sold for use in Inkjets are originally silver gelatin papers?  Available now.

  Are you saying that these papers now being produced for inkjet use still have silver in them?  I doubt
  it...Too pricey to include the silver...and besides, if the silver was present it would discolor over time.
  And then, if they have no silver in them, they would only be gelatin coated papers, but I suspect that they
  are no longer using the gelatin coating....As gelatin coatings don't respond well to inkjet ink applications
  (again I refer back to that 62 page thesis: Stability Issues and Test Methods for Ink Jet Materials, Barbara
  Vogt, Department of Image Engineering, University of Applied Science, Cologne).

  Obviously you can, and will, call these things we make, anything you like...and (really) it's ok by me.  :- )


  Harvey Ferdschneider
  partner, SKID Photography, NYC


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steadman Uhlich wrote:

> Harvey,
>
> What if I use silver gelatin paper in my Epson 1160?  What then?
>
> Are you aware that some papers sold for use in Inkjets are originally silver gelatin papers?  Available now.

Are you saying that these papers now being produced for inkjet use still have silver in them?  I doubt
it...Too pricey to include the silver...and besides, if the silver was present it would discolor over time.
And then, if they have no silver in them, they would only be gelatin coated papers, but I suspect that they
are no longer using the gelatin coating....As gelatin coatings don't respond well to inkjet ink applications
(again I refer back to that 62 page thesis: Stability Issues and Test Methods for Ink Jet Materials, Barbara
Vogt, Department of Image Engineering, University of Applied Science, Cologne).

Obviously you can, and will, call these things we make, anything you like...and (really) it's ok by me.  :- )


Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Seems the descriptions are always media and support material.

Oil on Canvas.
Pastel on paper.
Oil on cardboard.
Silver Gelatin
Mixed media
Ink on paper - ink on mouldmade paper - ink placed on mouldmade paper 
by a desktop or larger printer ;-)

Cleavis

> 
> But hey, what would you call that print...the one made with Carbon 
Pigmented inks (sprayed by the inkjet printer) on Silver Gelatin 
paper???

OK, I give up... :- )

You guys will call whatever you do, whatever you want.  I thought we were all interested in what was
considered the 'accepted form' for labeling our work, within the established academic art community...but you
guys are clearly crazy rebels, and who am I to argue with a rebellion to conquer the evil art establishment.
;- )

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


"J. Arthur Davis" wrote:

> > Jennifer Drucker wrote:
> >
> > > I call them Carbon Pigment on Paper, I used to call them Carbon
> Piezotypes but too many questions were
> > > raised.
> >
> > But Jennifer, they are *not* what you say....They are 'inkjet prints' that
> use carbon pigment inks.  'Carbon
> > Pigment Inkjet Prints' would be more appropriate.
> >
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
> Ok, so a lithograph should be called a stone pulled print on paper, a
> serigraph (spelling?) should be called a silk screen print on paper. As
> artists we get too hung up on the technology and not the art for the arts
> sake. What is wrong with Carbon Pigmented Prints on Paper, or Pigmented
> Carbon Prints on Paper?
>
> Jim Davis
> http://www.visual-artists.com
> davis.jarthur@...
> Fine art printmaker


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

after all that I think Carbon Piezotype sounds really great, and perfectly
sums up the process and media in two words. Count 'em! Two!

-- 
John Brownlow

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography <skid@b...> wrote:
> OK, I give up... :- )
> 
> You guys will call whatever you do, whatever you want.

Actually Harvey, I took your statement about these labels being meant to inform very seriously. Thanks for your opinions.
Tyler (going through a nasty "peacemaker" streak)

I too appreciate your learned opinions...I just may not agree with them...must be the "Digital Art Rebel" in me.

Thanks for contributing ALL  to this thread.  Now about that acid free paper issue....

Steadman

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tyler Boley 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:22 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gallery Rules


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography <skid@b...> wrote:
  > OK, I give up... :- )
  > 
  > You guys will call whatever you do, whatever you want.

  Actually Harvey, I took your statement about these labels being meant to inform very seriously. Thanks for your opinions.
  Tyler (going through a nasty "peacemaker" streak)



        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       

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  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
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  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You funny..... :- )

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC



Steadman Uhlich wrote:

> ISnip>  Now about that acid free paper issue....
>
> Steadman
>   -
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography <skid@b...> wrote:
>   > OK, I give up... :- )
>   >
>   > You guys will call whatever you do, whatever you want.
>
>   Actually Harvey, I took your statement about these labels being meant to inform very seriously. Thanks for
> your opinions.
>   Tyler (going through a nasty "peacemaker" streak)
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]