Digital BW, The Print

I too have switched to the new UT curves with the original VM and found them
to have a much smoother transition.

bgs
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Unger" <ungram@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:32 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: best warm tone for 1160?


> Mark, I'm assuming that you are using the original VM inkset and the
> original Roark 1160 curves.  I switched to the new curves designed
> for the Ultratone VM inkset but am still using the original VM and
> found a great improvement because the new curves have a smooth
> transition.  The shadow problem is no more.  Reprinting some old
> favorites has shown how much better the new curves are.  The toning
> works just fine with the new curves too.  The new Ultratone VM set
> will probably give even more improvement.  You can find the curves
> and instructions in files/MIS/Ultratones/1160.  Remember to use "no
> color adjustment" in the print dialog for color management.  - Andy
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hahn"
> <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
> > I have been using the MIS-VM inkset with Roark curves and find
> that I
> > am exclusively shooting warm or medium warm ink... doesn't seem I
> > really need the variable inkset and while I am generally happy
> with
> > the results, shadows are often a problem.  Do the Original or FS
> > inksets give better shadow details?  If so, what curves/workflow?
> > Opinions on best results?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > mark
> >
> > PS  I recognize that I am asking for opinions only...
>
>
>
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I find that the blacks from about 80 to 100% look about the same.  There is a big jump at about 82%.  Also the mid tones do not have much separation and that there is a big step from 0 to 5%.  Am I doing something wrong?  I'm using PS7 with Adobe RGB, no color correction and EEM paper.  Inks are original VM and curves are the UT curves for the 1160. With the old curves if is very black from about 55% so I did see a change.

Bob

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Hahn 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:14 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: best warm tone for 1160?


  WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  Thanks!!!!  Those curves change everything!  I've 
  been fighting with the original curves for 2 years and had just come 
  to accept that some images just could not be successfully printed in 
  quadtone... one of the hardest ones that I had been working on just 
  yesterday printed perfectly first try with the new curves!!!  
  Yeah!!!  Hats off to Paul!!!

  mark

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Unger" 
  <ungram@y...> wrote:
  > Mark, I'm assuming that you are using the original VM inkset and 
  the 
  > original Roark 1160 curves.  I switched to the new curves designed 
  > for the Ultratone VM inkset but am still using the original VM and 
  > found a great improvement because the new curves have a smooth 
  > transition.  The shadow problem is no more.  Reprinting some old 
  > favorites has shown how much better the new curves are.  The toning 
  > works just fine with the new curves too.  The new Ultratone VM set 
  > will probably give even more improvement.  You can find the curves 
  > and instructions in files/MIS/Ultratones/1160.  Remember to use "no 
  > color adjustment" in the print dialog for color management.  - Andy
  > 
  > 
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hahn" 
  > <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
  > > I have been using the MIS-VM inkset with Roark curves and find 
  > that I 
  > > am exclusively shooting warm or medium warm ink... doesn't seem I 
  > > really need the variable inkset and while I am generally happy 
  > with 
  > > the results, shadows are often a problem.  Do the Original or FS 
  > > inksets give better shadow details?  If so, what 
  curves/workflow?  
  > > Opinions on best results?
  > > 
  > > thanks,
  > > 
  > > mark
  > > 
  > > PS  I recognize that I am asking for opinions only...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't know why your's is coming out so differently... I've only 
printed a few examples, but these were difficult with the old 
curves.  One thing I noticed was that the new curves give me a 
similar response across the entire tonal space as I'm getting from a 
2200 <!> (which, other than the metoramism is excellent to my eyes).

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobphoto" 
<bobphoto@a...> wrote:
> I find that the blacks from about 80 to 100% look about the same.  
There is a big jump at about 82%.  Also the mid tones do not have 
much separation and that there is a big step from 0 to 5%.  Am I 
doing something wrong?  I'm using PS7 with Adobe RGB, no color 
correction and EEM paper.  Inks are original VM and curves are the UT 
curves for the 1160. With the old curves if is very black from about 
55% so I did see a change.
> 
> Bob
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Mark Hahn 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:14 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: best warm tone for 1160?
> 
> 
>   WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  Thanks!!!!  Those curves change everything!  I've 
>   been fighting with the original curves for 2 years and had just 
come 
>   to accept that some images just could not be successfully printed 
in 
>   quadtone... one of the hardest ones that I had been working on 
just 
>   yesterday printed perfectly first try with the new curves!!!  
>   Yeah!!!  Hats off to Paul!!!
> 
>   mark
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew 
Unger" 
>   <ungram@y...> wrote:
>   > Mark, I'm assuming that you are using the original VM inkset 
and 
>   the 
>   > original Roark 1160 curves.  I switched to the new curves 
designed 
>   > for the Ultratone VM inkset but am still using the original VM 
and 
>   > found a great improvement because the new curves have a smooth 
>   > transition.  The shadow problem is no more.  Reprinting some 
old 
>   > favorites has shown how much better the new curves are.  The 
toning 
>   > works just fine with the new curves too.  The new Ultratone VM 
set 
>   > will probably give even more improvement.  You can find the 
curves 
>   > and instructions in files/MIS/Ultratones/1160.  Remember to 
use "no 
>   > color adjustment" in the print dialog for color management.  - 
Andy
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark 
Hahn" 
>   > <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
>   > > I have been using the MIS-VM inkset with Roark curves and 
find 
>   > that I 
>   > > am exclusively shooting warm or medium warm ink... doesn't 
seem I 
>   > > really need the variable inkset and while I am generally 
happy 
>   > with 
>   > > the results, shadows are often a problem.  Do the Original or 
FS 
>   > > inksets give better shadow details?  If so, what 
>   curves/workflow?  
>   > > Opinions on best results?
>   > > 
>   > > thanks,
>   > > 
>   > > mark
>   > > 
>   > > PS  I recognize that I am asking for opinions only...
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>              
>        
>        
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
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> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
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flames
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>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
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> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with your 82% (actually more like 85%) observation, but my 
ramp is smooth from there to about 95%.  Beyond that its really 
difficult to judge.  Andy



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobphoto" 
<bobphoto@a...> wrote:
> I find that the blacks from about 80 to 100% look about the same.  
There is a big jump at about 82%.  Also the mid tones do not have 
much separation and that there is a big step from 0 to 5%.  Am I 
doing something wrong?  I'm using PS7 with Adobe RGB, no color 
correction and EEM paper.  Inks are original VM and curves are the 
UT curves for the 1160. With the old curves if is very black from 
about 55% so I did see a change.
> 
> Bob
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Mark Hahn 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:14 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: best warm tone for 1160?
> 
> 
>   WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  Thanks!!!!  Those curves change everything!  
I've 
>   been fighting with the original curves for 2 years and had just 
come 
>   to accept that some images just could not be successfully 
printed in 
>   quadtone... one of the hardest ones that I had been working on 
just 
>   yesterday printed perfectly first try with the new curves!!!  
>   Yeah!!!  Hats off to Paul!!!
> 
>   mark
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew 
Unger" 
>   <ungram@y...> wrote:
>   > Mark, I'm assuming that you are using the original VM inkset 
and 
>   the 
>   > original Roark 1160 curves.  I switched to the new curves 
designed 
>   > for the Ultratone VM inkset but am still using the original VM 
and 
>   > found a great improvement because the new curves have a smooth 
>   > transition.  The shadow problem is no more.  Reprinting some 
old 
>   > favorites has shown how much better the new curves are.  The 
toning 
>   > works just fine with the new curves too.  The new Ultratone VM 
set 
>   > will probably give even more improvement.  You can find the 
curves 
>   > and instructions in files/MIS/Ultratones/1160.  Remember to 
use "no 
>   > color adjustment" in the print dialog for color management.  - 
Andy
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark 
Hahn" 
>   > <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
>   > > I have been using the MIS-VM inkset with Roark curves and 
find 
>   > that I 
>   > > am exclusively shooting warm or medium warm ink... doesn't 
seem I 
>   > > really need the variable inkset and while I am generally 
happy 
>   > with 
>   > > the results, shadows are often a problem.  Do the Original 
or FS 
>   > > inksets give better shadow details?  If so, what 
>   curves/workflow?  
>   > > Opinions on best results?
>   > > 
>   > > thanks,
>   > > 
>   > > mark
>   > > 
>   > > PS  I recognize that I am asking for opinions only...
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>              
>        
>        
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]