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Re: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

Re: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-23 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net

Hi Brad,

It's really not a question of which is better...

The Epson 1280 with one of the MIS inksets or the newer Piezo inks will produce fine prints. However, this implies a dedicated printer for B&W. The Epson 2200, if you want to print B&W requires, IMO, one of the RIPs available. I only have experience with ImagePrint. Basically, if you need or want to produce B&W and color from the same printer, get the 2200 and a RIP. If you only shoot B&W, spare yourself the expense and go with the 1280 and one of the many dedicated workflows.

Hope this helps.

Alan Huntley
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:56:46 EDT
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> 	7-Color
> 
> Does this mean you would prefer to use a 2200 over the 1280 for the B&W???
> I am a bit confused as to which printer is better?
> I¹ll go with which ever gives me the best image.
> Just tell me which one?
> Regards....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/23/03 9:34 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Mike,
> > 
> > Your assessment of the pros/cons of each "solution" seems about right. I just
> > moved from running an Epson 1160/UT inks/Roark curves to IP 5.6 to drive my
> > Epson 2200. I have been very happy with both the color and B&W results from
> > IP. BTW, IP doesn't use the yellow ink for B&W which, reportedly, eliminates
> > metamerism--have not noticed any color cast in my B&W prints--and the UC inks
> > already have a reputation for being pretty stable.
> > 
> > Overall, I have been happy with IP...so far. I like the fact that many
> > seemingly accurate paper profiles are free for download--custom profiles ain't
> > cheap--and, my overall workflow has been greatly simplified...Drag-n-drop
> > image onto IP main layout window, select appropriate paper profile, hit print.
> > Printer starts running almost immediately--compare that to the wait time of
> > whatever spooling the Epson driver is doing--and I'm free to use my machine
> > for other tasks. Less mistakes works for me!
> > 
> > Just my 2 cents,
> > Alan Huntley
> > 
> >> > 
> >> > From: "Mike Botelho" <mfractl@...>
> >> > Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM 11:03:27 EDT
> >> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >> > Subject: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color
> >> > 
> >> > OK, based on absorbing lots of information in a very short amount of
> >> > time, I seem to have reached a choice between two options, using the
> >> > Ultra Tone inks on a dedicated B&W printer or using ImagePrint with
> >> > the Ultrachromes on a 7-color Epson printer.  Assuming that the
> >> > ImagePrint prints will also display no matamerism (correct me if I'm
> >> > wrong), here is how I've come to understand both options:
> >> > 
> >> > Option 1: Ultra Tones on a dedicated B&W printer:
> >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism
> >> >      -avoids colored inks fading before black ink
> >> >      -choice of warm, neutral, cool toning
> >> >      -an expensive RIP not needed
> >> >      -would end up spending money on a separate printer for color
> >> > 
> >> > Option 2: Ultrachromes/ImagePrint on Epson 7-color printer
> >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism (due to the use of more
> >> >          colors)
> >> >      -colored inks could conceivably fade before the black ink
> >> >      -some, limited, control over toning
> >> >      -high cost of RIP, increasing considerably for WF models (but
> >> >          the RIP would also be extremely useful for color printing)
> >> >      -could print B&W on the same printer, which could save quite a
> >> >          lot if we're talking WF (though the increased cost of a WF
> >> >          RIP would eat up a god chunk of that)
> >> > 
> >> > So, is that a good estimation?  Am I wrong anywhere?  Are there other
> >> > advantages or drawbacks to either choice?
> >> > 
> >> > Also, there's the upcoming Epson 4000 that will supposed have drivers
> >> > that will handle B&W better.  (Will this mean new drivers for the
> >> > 2200/7600/9600 that also do better?)  Plus, having Photo Black and
> >> > Matte Black available as a software change makes it all the more
> >> > viable as a printer for both color and B&W.  (Though I'm unsure if
> >> > I'd be willing to pay that much more than the 2200 for a few extra
> >> > inches.  At that point, why not just spend a bit more and go with the
> >> > 7600 and get an impressive size increase, I think, maybe.)
> >> > 
> >> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >  
> >  ADVERTISEMENT
> >  
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> > dia=atkins>  
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-23 by Brad Mol

Yes it is a help.
Thanks.
But  what is IMO?
Sorry but new to all this stuff.
Brad


On 10/23/03 10:12 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:

> Hi Brad,
> 
> It's really not a question of which is better...
> 
> The Epson 1280 with one of the MIS inksets or the newer Piezo inks will
> produce fine prints. However, this implies a dedicated printer for B&W. The
> Epson 2200, if you want to print B&W requires, IMO, one of the RIPs available.
> I only have experience with ImagePrint. Basically, if you need or want to
> produce B&W and color from the same printer, get the 2200 and a RIP. If you
> only shoot B&W, spare yourself the expense and go with the 1280 and one of the
> many dedicated workflows.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
>> > 
>> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
>> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:56:46 EDT
>> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
>> >       7-Color
>> > 
>> > Does this mean you would prefer to use a 2200 over the 1280 for the B&W???
>> > I am a bit confused as to which printer is better?
>> > I¹ll go with which ever gives me the best image.
>> > Just tell me which one?
>> > Regards....
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On 10/23/03 9:34 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
>> > 
>>> > > Hi Mike,
>>> > > 
>>> > > Your assessment of the pros/cons of each "solution" seems about right. I
>>> just
>>> > > moved from running an Epson 1160/UT inks/Roark curves to IP 5.6 to drive
my
>>> > > Epson 2200. I have been very happy with both the color and B&W results
>>> from
>>> > > IP. BTW, IP doesn't use the yellow ink for B&W which, reportedly,
>>> eliminates
>>> > > metamerism--have not noticed any color cast in my B&W prints--and the UC
>>> inks
>>> > > already have a reputation for being pretty stable.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Overall, I have been happy with IP...so far. I like the fact that many
>>> > > seemingly accurate paper profiles are free for download--custom profiles
>>> ain't
>>> > > cheap--and, my overall workflow has been greatly
>>> simplified...Drag-n-drop
>>> > > image onto IP main layout window, select appropriate paper profile, hit
>>> print.
>>> > > Printer starts running almost immediately--compare that to the wait time
of
>>> > > whatever spooling the Epson driver is doing--and I'm free to use my
>>> machine
>>> > > for other tasks. Less mistakes works for me!
>>> > > 
>>> > > Just my 2 cents,
>>> > > Alan Huntley
>>> > > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > From: "Mike Botelho" <mfractl@...>
>>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM 11:03:27 EDT
>>>>> > >> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> > >> > Subject: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
>>>>> 7-Color
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > OK, based on absorbing lots of information in a very short amount
of
>>>>> > >> > time, I seem to have reached a choice between two options, using
the
>>>>> > >> > Ultra Tone inks on a dedicated B&W printer or using ImagePrint with
>>>>> > >> > the Ultrachromes on a 7-color Epson printer.  Assuming that the
>>>>> > >> > ImagePrint prints will also display no matamerism (correct me if
I'm
>>>>> > >> > wrong), here is how I've come to understand both options:
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Option 1: Ultra Tones on a dedicated B&W printer:
>>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism
>>>>> > >> >      -avoids colored inks fading before black ink
>>>>> > >> >      -choice of warm, neutral, cool toning
>>>>> > >> >      -an expensive RIP not needed
>>>>> > >> >      -would end up spending money on a separate printer for color
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Option 2: Ultrachromes/ImagePrint on Epson 7-color printer
>>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism (due to the use of
more
>>>>> > >> >          colors)
>>>>> > >> >      -colored inks could conceivably fade before the black ink
>>>>> > >> >      -some, limited, control over toning
>>>>> > >> >      -high cost of RIP, increasing considerably for WF models (but
>>>>> > >> >          the RIP would also be extremely useful for color printing)
>>>>> > >> >      -could print B&W on the same printer, which could save quite a
>>>>> > >> >          lot if we're talking WF (though the increased cost of a WF
>>>>> > >> >          RIP would eat up a god chunk of that)
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > So, is that a good estimation?  Am I wrong anywhere?  Are there
other
>>>>> > >> > advantages or drawbacks to either choice?
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Also, there's the upcoming Epson 4000 that will supposed have >>>>>
drivers
>>>>> > >> > that will handle B&W better.  (Will this mean new drivers for the
>>>>> > >> > 2200/7600/9600 that also do better?)  Plus, having Photo Black and
>>>>> > >> > Matte Black available as a software change makes it all the more
>>>>> > >> > viable as a printer for both color and B&W.  (Though I'm unsure if
>>>>> > >> > I'd be willing to pay that much more than the 2200 for a few extra
>>>>> > >> > inches.  At that point, why not just spend a bit more and go with
the
>>>>> > >> > 7600 and get an impressive size increase, I think, maybe.)
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Mike
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>> > >  
>>> > >  ADVERTISEMENT
>>> > >  
>>> > > 
>>> 
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019182
>>> > > 
>>> 
:HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30529&me
>>> > > dia=atkins>
>>> > > 
>>> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>> other
>>> > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> > > 
>>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> > > 
>>> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
>>> same
>>> > > page.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> > > - Include your full name with your message.
>>> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
>>> keep
>>> > > them short.
>>> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
>>> header.
>>> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>>> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> > > resources on the homepage.
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>>> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> > 
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> > 
>> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>> page.
>> > 
>> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> > - Include your full name with your message.
>> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>> them short.
>> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>> resources on the homepage.
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  
>> > 
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>  
>  ADVERTISEMENT
>  
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019182
> :HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30509&me
> dia=atkins>  
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-23 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net

IMO = In my opinion, or,
IMHO = In my humble opinion

Don't apologize...we were all new once!

Alan Huntley
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 11:24:05 EDT
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> 	7-Color
> 
> Yes it is a help.
> Thanks.
> But  what is IMO?
> Sorry but new to all this stuff.
> Brad
> 
> 
> On 10/23/03 10:12 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Brad,
> > 
> > It's really not a question of which is better...
> > 
> > The Epson 1280 with one of the MIS inksets or the newer Piezo inks will
> > produce fine prints. However, this implies a dedicated printer for B&W. The
> > Epson 2200, if you want to print B&W requires, IMO, one of the RIPs available.
> > I only have experience with ImagePrint. Basically, if you need or want to
> > produce B&W and color from the same printer, get the 2200 and a RIP. If you
> > only shoot B&W, spare yourself the expense and go with the 1280 and one of the
> > many dedicated workflows.
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Alan Huntley
> > 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> >> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:56:46 EDT
> >> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> >> >       7-Color
> >> > 
> >> > Does this mean you would prefer to use a 2200 over the 1280 for the B&W???
> >> > I am a bit confused as to which printer is better?
> >> > I¹ll go with which ever gives me the best image.
> >> > Just tell me which one?
> >> > Regards....
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On 10/23/03 9:34 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> >> > 
> >>> > > Hi Mike,
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Your assessment of the pros/cons of each "solution" seems about right. I
> >>> just
> >>> > > moved from running an Epson 1160/UT inks/Roark curves to IP 5.6 to drive
> my
> >>> > > Epson 2200. I have been very happy with both the color and B&W results
> >>> from
> >>> > > IP. BTW, IP doesn't use the yellow ink for B&W which, reportedly,
> >>> eliminates
> >>> > > metamerism--have not noticed any color cast in my B&W prints--and the UC
> >>> inks
> >>> > > already have a reputation for being pretty stable.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Overall, I have been happy with IP...so far. I like the fact that many
> >>> > > seemingly accurate paper profiles are free for download--custom profiles
> >>> ain't
> >>> > > cheap--and, my overall workflow has been greatly
> >>> simplified...Drag-n-drop
> >>> > > image onto IP main layout window, select appropriate paper profile, hit
> >>> print.
> >>> > > Printer starts running almost immediately--compare that to the wait time
> of
> >>> > > whatever spooling the Epson driver is doing--and I'm free to use my
> >>> machine
> >>> > > for other tasks. Less mistakes works for me!
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Just my 2 cents,
> >>> > > Alan Huntley
> >>> > > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > From: "Mike Botelho" <mfractl@hotmail.com>
> >>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM 11:03:27 EDT
> >>>>> > >> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > >> > Subject: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> >>>>> 7-Color
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > OK, based on absorbing lots of information in a very short amount
> of
> >>>>> > >> > time, I seem to have reached a choice between two options, using
> the
> >>>>> > >> > Ultra Tone inks on a dedicated B&W printer or using ImagePrint with
> >>>>> > >> > the Ultrachromes on a 7-color Epson printer.  Assuming that the
> >>>>> > >> > ImagePrint prints will also display no matamerism (correct me if
> I'm
> >>>>> > >> > wrong), here is how I've come to understand both options:
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Option 1: Ultra Tones on a dedicated B&W printer:
> >>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism
> >>>>> > >> >      -avoids colored inks fading before black ink
> >>>>> > >> >      -choice of warm, neutral, cool toning
> >>>>> > >> >      -an expensive RIP not needed
> >>>>> > >> >      -would end up spending money on a separate printer for color
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Option 2: Ultrachromes/ImagePrint on Epson 7-color printer
> >>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism (due to the use of
> more
> >>>>> > >> >          colors)
> >>>>> > >> >      -colored inks could conceivably fade before the black ink
> >>>>> > >> >      -some, limited, control over toning
> >>>>> > >> >      -high cost of RIP, increasing considerably for WF models (but
> >>>>> > >> >          the RIP would also be extremely useful for color printing)
> >>>>> > >> >      -could print B&W on the same printer, which could save quite a
> >>>>> > >> >          lot if we're talking WF (though the increased cost of a WF
> >>>>> > >> >          RIP would eat up a god chunk of that)
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > So, is that a good estimation?  Am I wrong anywhere?  Are there
> other
> >>>>> > >> > advantages or drawbacks to either choice?
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Also, there's the upcoming Epson 4000 that will supposed have >>>>>
> drivers
> >>>>> > >> > that will handle B&W better.  (Will this mean new drivers for the
> >>>>> > >> > 2200/7600/9600 that also do better?)  Plus, having Photo Black and
> >>>>> > >> > Matte Black available as a software change makes it all the more
> >>>>> > >> > viable as a printer for both color and B&W.  (Though I'm unsure if
> >>>>> > >> > I'd be willing to pay that much more than the 2200 for a few extra
> >>>>> > >> > inches.  At that point, why not just spend a bit more and go with
> the
> >>>>> > >> > 7600 and get an impressive size increase, I think, maybe.)
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Mike
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  ADVERTISEMENT
> >>> > >  
> >>> > > 
> >>> 
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019182
> >>> > > 
> >>> 
> :HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30529&me
> >>> > > dia=atkins>
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> >>> other
> >>> > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> >>> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> >>> same
> >>> > > page.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >>> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> >>> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >>> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> >>> keep
> >>> > > them short.
> >>> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> >>> header.
> >>> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> >>> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >>> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> >>> > > resources on the homepage.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> >>> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> >> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >> > 
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >> > 
> >> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> >> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> >> page.
> >> > 
> >> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >> > - Include your full name with your message.
> >> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> >> them short.
> >> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> >> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> >> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> >> resources on the homepage.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >  
> >> > 
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> > 
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Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-24 by Brad Mol

Alan

I just saw a message from Bob Frost.
He sates that the Epson 2200 gives great B&W prints.
He says that it has the light black inks that the 1280 does not.
This he says will give you the best prints with Epson Inks.
But are they as good as prints from a 1280 with the 3rd party inks?
This is the key question.  If they are about as good, then I would rather go
that way as Epson inks are easily available out here and 3rd party inks will
have to be bought and shipped over seas to Thailand.  More expense and more
wait.
What is your take on this?





On 10/24/03 1:09 AM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:

> IMO = In my opinion, or,
> IMHO = In my humble opinion
> 
> Don't apologize...we were all new once!
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
>> > 
>> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
>> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 11:24:05 EDT
>> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
>> >       7-Color
>> > 
>> > Yes it is a help.
>> > Thanks.
>> > But  what is IMO?
>> > Sorry but new to all this stuff.
>> > Brad
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On 10/23/03 10:12 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
>> > 
>>> > > Hi Brad,
>>> > > 
>>> > > It's really not a question of which is better...
>>> > > 
>>> > > The Epson 1280 with one of the MIS inksets or the newer Piezo inks will
>>> > > produce fine prints. However, this implies a dedicated printer for B&W.
The
>>> > > Epson 2200, if you want to print B&W requires, IMO, one of the RIPs
>>> available.
>>> > > I only have experience with ImagePrint. Basically, if you need or want
to
>>> > > produce B&W and color from the same printer, get the 2200 and a RIP. If
you
>>> > > only shoot B&W, spare yourself the expense and go with the 1280 and one
>>> of the
>>> > > many dedicated workflows.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Hope this helps.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Alan Huntley
>>> > > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
>>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:56:46 EDT
>>>>> > >> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint
&
>>>>> > >> >       7-Color
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Does this mean you would prefer to use a 2200 over the 1280 for the
B&W???
>>>>> > >> > I am a bit confused as to which printer is better?
>>>>> > >> > I¹ll go with which ever gives me the best image.
>>>>> > >> > Just tell me which one?
>>>>> > >> > Regards....
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > On 10/23/03 9:34 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...>
wrote:
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Mike,
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Your assessment of the pros/cons of each "solution" seems
>>>>>>> about right. I
>>>>> > >>> just
>>>>>>> > >>> > > moved from running an Epson 1160/UT inks/Roark curves to IP
>>>>>>> 5.6 to drive
>> > my
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Epson 2200. I have been very happy with both the color and B&W
results
>>>>> > >>> from
>>>>>>> > >>> > > IP. BTW, IP doesn't use the yellow ink for B&W which, >>>>>>>
reportedly,
>>>>> > >>> eliminates
>>>>>>> > >>> > > metamerism--have not noticed any color cast in my B&W
>>>>>>> prints--and the UC
>>>>> > >>> inks
>>>>>>> > >>> > > already have a reputation for being pretty stable.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Overall, I have been happy with IP...so far. I like the fact
that many
>>>>>>> > >>> > > seemingly accurate paper profiles are free for
>>>>>>> download--custom profiles
>>>>> > >>> ain't
>>>>>>> > >>> > > cheap--and, my overall workflow has been greatly
>>>>> > >>> simplified...Drag-n-drop
>>>>>>> > >>> > > image onto IP main layout window, select appropriate paper
>>>>>>> profile, hit
>>>>> > >>> print.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Printer starts running almost immediately--compare that to the
wait time
>> > of
>>>>>>> > >>> > > whatever spooling the Epson driver is doing--and I'm free to
use my
>>>>> > >>> machine
>>>>>>> > >>> > > for other tasks. Less mistakes works for me!
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Just my 2 cents,
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Alan Huntley
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > From: "Mike Botelho" <mfractl@...>
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM 11:03:27 EDT
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Subject: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs
ImagePrint &
>>>>>>> > >>>>> 7-Color
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > OK, based on absorbing lots of information in a very
short amount
>> > of
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > time, I seem to have reached a choice between two
options, using
>> > the
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Ultra Tone inks on a dedicated B&W printer or using
>>>>>>>>>>> ImagePrint with
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > the Ultrachromes on a 7-color Epson printer.
>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming that the
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > ImagePrint prints will also display no matamerism
(correct me if
>> > I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > wrong), here is how I've come to understand both
options:
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Option 1: Ultra Tones on a dedicated B&W printer:
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -avoids colored inks fading before black ink
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -choice of warm, neutral, cool toning
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -an expensive RIP not needed
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -would end up spending money on a separate
>>>>>>>>>>> printer for color
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Option 2: Ultrachromes/ImagePrint on Epson 7-color
printer
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism (due to
the use of
>> > more
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          colors)
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -colored inks could conceivably fade before the
black ink
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -some, limited, control over toning
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high cost of RIP, increasing considerably for
WF models (but
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          the RIP would also be extremely useful for
>>>>>>>>>>> color printing)
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -could print B&W on the same printer, which
>>>>>>>>>>> could save quite a
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          lot if we're talking WF (though the
>>>>>>>>>>> increased cost of a WF
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          RIP would eat up a god chunk of that)
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > So, is that a good estimation?  Am I wrong anywhere?
Are there
>> > other
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > advantages or drawbacks to either choice?
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Also, there's the upcoming Epson 4000 that will
>>>>>>>>>>> supposed have >>>>>
>> > drivers
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > that will handle B&W better.  (Will this mean new
>>>>>>>>>>> drivers for the
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > 2200/7600/9600 that also do better?)  Plus, having
>>>>>>>>>>> Photo Black and
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Matte Black available as a software change makes it
all the more
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > viable as a printer for both color and B&W.  (Though
I'm unsure if
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I'd be willing to pay that much more than the 2200
>>>>>>>>>>> for a few extra
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > inches.  At that point, why not just spend a bit more
and go with
>> > the
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > 7600 and get an impressive size increase, I think,
maybe.)
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Mike
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
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>>>>> > >>> 
>> > 
>> 
:HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30529&me
>>>>>>> > >>> > > dia=atkins>
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Polls and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-24 by john eckenrode

bob was referring to the 1280's dye inks which do not
print b&w well. the 1280 with 3rd party inks is
probably the best current option for b&w.
the 2200 out of the box does not work for B&W, the
metamerism is bad. the 2200 with a RIP such as
Imageprint ($400-500) or Open Print Maker (free for
Mac OS 9) or Quadtone RIP (free for Mac OS 10) will
provide acceptable results with the OEM 2200 inkset.
there is no metamerism, but in my experience the
highlites and some shadow transitions can get grainy
and dotty. but if you want a one printer option that
is pretty much the way to go.
i use a 2200 for color, i love it for that.
i also use an old epson 1200 dedicated to b&w. i was
using MIS VM inks using the Paul Roark curve workflow
and the results are generally much superior to the
2200 with OEM ink. i am now converting to MIS-UT inks
and Roy Harrington's Quadtone RIP on my 1200.
eventually i will probably buy an epson 4000 for color
and convert my 2200 to my b&w printer using quad ink.
as a piece of machinery the 2200 blows away the 1200.
anyhoo the long short of all this is to say i am one
of the guys that prefers a dedicated quad ink printer
over a 2200/OEM ink/RIP solution. so if your thinking
primarily black and white i would recommend the 1280
with quad ink over 2200 with RIP. obviously you will
get opinions on both sides, but there is my angle
john eckenrode  

--- Brad Mol <bradmol99@...> wrote:
> Alan
> 
> I just saw a message from Bob Frost.
> He sates that the Epson 2200 gives great B&W prints.
> He says that it has the light black inks that the
> 1280 does not.
> This he says will give you the best prints with
> Epson Inks.
> But are they as good as prints from a 1280 with the
> 3rd party inks?
> This is the key question.  If they are about as
> good, then I would rather go
> that way as Epson inks are easily available out here
> and 3rd party inks will
> have to be bought and shipped over seas to Thailand.
>  More expense and more
> wait.
> What is your take on this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/24/03 1:09 AM, "Alan.Huntley@..."
> <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> 
> > IMO = In my opinion, or,
> > IMHO = In my humble opinion
> > 
> > Don't apologize...we were all new once!
> > 
> > Alan Huntley
> > 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> >> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 11:24:05 EDT
> >> > To:
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones &
> Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> >> >       7-Color
> >> > 
> >> > Yes it is a help.
> >> > Thanks.
> >> > But  what is IMO?
> >> > Sorry but new to all this stuff.
> >> > Brad
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On 10/23/03 10:12 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..."
> <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> >> > 
> >>> > > Hi Brad,
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > It's really not a question of which is
> better...
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > The Epson 1280 with one of the MIS inksets
> or the newer Piezo inks will
> >>> > > produce fine prints. However, this implies a
> dedicated printer for B&W.
> The
> >>> > > Epson 2200, if you want to print B&W
> requires, IMO, one of the RIPs
> >>> available.
> >>> > > I only have experience with ImagePrint.
> Basically, if you need or want
> to
> >>> > > produce B&W and color from the same printer,
> get the 2200 and a RIP. If
> you
> >>> > > only shoot B&W, spare yourself the expense
> and go with the 1280 and one
> >>> of the
> >>> > > many dedicated workflows.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Hope this helps.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Alan Huntley
> >>> > > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> >>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:56:46 EDT
> >>>>> > >> > To:
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones &
> Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint
> &
> >>>>> > >> >       7-Color
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Does this mean you would prefer to use
> a 2200 over the 1280 for the
> B&W???
> >>>>> > >> > I am a bit confused as to which printer
> is better?
> >>>>> > >> > I1ll go with which ever gives me the
> best image.
> >>>>> > >> > Just tell me which one?
> >>>>> > >> > Regards....
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > On 10/23/03 9:34 PM,
> "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...>
> wrote:
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Mike,
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Your assessment of the pros/cons
> of each "solution" seems
> >>>>>>> about right. I
> >>>>> > >>> just
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > moved from running an Epson
> 1160/UT inks/Roark curves to IP
> >>>>>>> 5.6 to drive
> >> > my
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Epson 2200. I have been very happy
> with both the color and B&W
> results
> >>>>> > >>> from
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > IP. BTW, IP doesn't use the yellow
> ink for B&W which, >>>>>>>
> reportedly,
> >>>>> > >>> eliminates
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > metamerism--have not noticed any
> color cast in my B&W
> >>>>>>> prints--and the UC
> >>>>> > >>> inks
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > already have a reputation for
> being pretty stable.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Overall, I have been happy with
> IP...so far. I like the fact
> that many
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > seemingly accurate paper profiles
> are free for
> >>>>>>> download--custom profiles
> >>>>> > >>> ain't
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > cheap--and, my overall workflow
> has been greatly
> >>>>> > >>> simplified...Drag-n-drop
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > image onto IP main layout window,
> select appropriate paper
> >>>>>>> profile, hit
> >>>>> > >>> print.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Printer starts running almost
> immediately--compare that to the
> wait time
> >> > of
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > whatever spooling the Epson driver
> is doing--and I'm free to
> use my
> >>>>> > >>> machine
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > for other tasks. Less mistakes
> works for me!
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Just my 2 cents,
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Alan Huntley
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > From: "Mike Botelho"
> <mfractl@...>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM
> 11:03:27 EDT
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > To:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Subject: [Digital BW]
> Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs
> ImagePrint &
> >>>>>>> > >>>>> 7-Color
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > OK, based on absorbing
> lots of information in a very
> short amount
> >> > of
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > time, I seem to have
> reached a choice between two
> options, using
> >> > the
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Ultra Tone inks on a
> dedicated B&W printer or using
> >>>>>>>>>>> ImagePrint with
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > the Ultrachromes on a
> 7-color Epson printer.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Assuming that the
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > ImagePrint prints will
> also display no matamerism
> (correct me if
> >> > I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > wrong), here is how I've
> come to understand both
> options:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Option 1: Ultra Tones on
> a dedicated B&W printer:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high quality
> results with no metamerism
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -avoids colored inks
> fading before black ink
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -choice of warm,
> neutral, 
=== message truncated ===


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RE: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-24 by Daniel Staver

I'd just like to add that the 2200 really doesn't have to be dedicated
to one inkset. It easily handles switching between different inksets.

Just today I switched between Epson inks with matte black, Epson inks
with MIS photo black, MIS Ultratones with Eboni black, and finally back
again to the Epson inks with matte black. It wastes some ink because you
have to run a couple of cleaning cycles, but otherwise it works fine.

I usually don't switch inksets that frequently, but I was trying to fix
a problem that I finally discovered to be caused by a faulty chip
resetter. The printer would appear to malfunction every time I used a
cartridge reset with the SK168 chip resetter within the last two months
or so. The printer would work fine with cartridges reset before that.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Re: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint & 7-Color

2003-10-24 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net

Brad,

B&W from the standard Epson 2200 with UC inks will DEFINITELY reveal some sort of color cast and metamerism. Yes, the light black ink was marketed by Epson as ensuring more neutral prints... As an old New England saying goes: as compared to what?

My advice: if your thinking along the lines of the Epson 2200 running standard UC inks, and, you want to print both B&W and color, add the cost of a RIP like ImagePrint. If you only need B&W, I think the best solution is the Epson 1280 with MIS or Piezo inks. Personally, if I were setting up a dedicated B&W printer, today, I'd go with the 1280 / Ultratone inks / Paul Roark's latest curves.

Just my opinion, though...........

Good luck,
Alan Huntley
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu PM 08:49:12 EDT
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> 	7-Color
> 
> Alan
> 
> I just saw a message from Bob Frost.
> He sates that the Epson 2200 gives great B&W prints.
> He says that it has the light black inks that the 1280 does not.
> This he says will give you the best prints with Epson Inks.
> But are they as good as prints from a 1280 with the 3rd party inks?
> This is the key question.  If they are about as good, then I would rather go
> that way as Epson inks are easily available out here and 3rd party inks will
> have to be bought and shipped over seas to Thailand.  More expense and more
> wait.
> What is your take on this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/24/03 1:09 AM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> 
> > IMO = In my opinion, or,
> > IMHO = In my humble opinion
> > 
> > Don't apologize...we were all new once!
> > 
> > Alan Huntley
> > 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> >> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 11:24:05 EDT
> >> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint &
> >> >       7-Color
> >> > 
> >> > Yes it is a help.
> >> > Thanks.
> >> > But  what is IMO?
> >> > Sorry but new to all this stuff.
> >> > Brad
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On 10/23/03 10:12 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
> >> > 
> >>> > > Hi Brad,
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > It's really not a question of which is better...
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > The Epson 1280 with one of the MIS inksets or the newer Piezo inks will
> >>> > > produce fine prints. However, this implies a dedicated printer for B&W.
> The
> >>> > > Epson 2200, if you want to print B&W requires, IMO, one of the RIPs
> >>> available.
> >>> > > I only have experience with ImagePrint. Basically, if you need or want
> to
> >>> > > produce B&W and color from the same printer, get the 2200 and a RIP. If
> you
> >>> > > only shoot B&W, spare yourself the expense and go with the 1280 and one
> >>> of the
> >>> > > many dedicated workflows.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Hope this helps.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Alan Huntley
> >>> > > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > From: Brad Mol <bradmol99@...>
> >>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:56:46 EDT
> >>>>> > >> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs ImagePrint
> &
> >>>>> > >> >       7-Color
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Does this mean you would prefer to use a 2200 over the 1280 for the
> B&W???
> >>>>> > >> > I am a bit confused as to which printer is better?
> >>>>> > >> > I¹ll go with which ever gives me the best image.
> >>>>> > >> > Just tell me which one?
> >>>>> > >> > Regards....
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > On 10/23/03 9:34 PM, "Alan.Huntley@..." <Alan.Huntley@...>
> wrote:
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Mike,
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Your assessment of the pros/cons of each "solution" seems
> >>>>>>> about right. I
> >>>>> > >>> just
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > moved from running an Epson 1160/UT inks/Roark curves to IP
> >>>>>>> 5.6 to drive
> >> > my
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Epson 2200. I have been very happy with both the color and B&W
> results
> >>>>> > >>> from
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > IP. BTW, IP doesn't use the yellow ink for B&W which, >>>>>>>
> reportedly,
> >>>>> > >>> eliminates
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > metamerism--have not noticed any color cast in my B&W
> >>>>>>> prints--and the UC
> >>>>> > >>> inks
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > already have a reputation for being pretty stable.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Overall, I have been happy with IP...so far. I like the fact
> that many
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > seemingly accurate paper profiles are free for
> >>>>>>> download--custom profiles
> >>>>> > >>> ain't
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > cheap--and, my overall workflow has been greatly
> >>>>> > >>> simplified...Drag-n-drop
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > image onto IP main layout window, select appropriate paper
> >>>>>>> profile, hit
> >>>>> > >>> print.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Printer starts running almost immediately--compare that to the
> wait time
> >> > of
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > whatever spooling the Epson driver is doing--and I'm free to
> use my
> >>>>> > >>> machine
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > for other tasks. Less mistakes works for me!
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Just my 2 cents,
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Alan Huntley
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > From: "Mike Botelho" <mfractl@...>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM 11:03:27 EDT
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Subject: [Digital BW] Ultra Tones & Dedicated B&W vs
> ImagePrint &
> >>>>>>> > >>>>> 7-Color
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > OK, based on absorbing lots of information in a very
> short amount
> >> > of
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > time, I seem to have reached a choice between two
> options, using
> >> > the
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Ultra Tone inks on a dedicated B&W printer or using
> >>>>>>>>>>> ImagePrint with
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > the Ultrachromes on a 7-color Epson printer.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Assuming that the
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > ImagePrint prints will also display no matamerism
> (correct me if
> >> > I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > wrong), here is how I've come to understand both
> options:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Option 1: Ultra Tones on a dedicated B&W printer:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -avoids colored inks fading before black ink
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -choice of warm, neutral, cool toning
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -an expensive RIP not needed
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -would end up spending money on a separate
> >>>>>>>>>>> printer for color
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Option 2: Ultrachromes/ImagePrint on Epson 7-color
> printer
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high quality results with no metamerism (due to
> the use of
> >> > more
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          colors)
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -colored inks could conceivably fade before the
> black ink
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -some, limited, control over toning
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -high cost of RIP, increasing considerably for
> WF models (but
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          the RIP would also be extremely useful for
> >>>>>>>>>>> color printing)
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >      -could print B&W on the same printer, which
> >>>>>>>>>>> could save quite a
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          lot if we're talking WF (though the
> >>>>>>>>>>> increased cost of a WF
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >          RIP would eat up a god chunk of that)
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > So, is that a good estimation?  Am I wrong anywhere?
> Are there
> >> > other
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > advantages or drawbacks to either choice?
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Also, there's the upcoming Epson 4000 that will
> >>>>>>>>>>> supposed have >>>>>
> >> > drivers
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > that will handle B&W better.  (Will this mean new
> >>>>>>>>>>> drivers for the
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > 2200/7600/9600 that also do better?)  Plus, having
> >>>>>>>>>>> Photo Black and
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Matte Black available as a software change makes it
> all the more
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > viable as a printer for both color and B&W.  (Though
> I'm unsure if
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I'd be willing to pay that much more than the 2200
> >>>>>>>>>>> for a few extra
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > inches.  At that point, why not just spend a bit more
> and go with
> >> > the
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > 7600 and get an impressive size increase, I think,
> maybe.)
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Mike
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> >> > 
> >> 
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> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>> > >>> 
> >> > 
> >> 
> :HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30529&me
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > dia=atkins>
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> >>> 
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