Digital BW, The Print

Bought a pack of Premier (Museum) and didn't get satisfactory results with UT.
The issue is the black which if used over 75% becomes slightly shiny. I had the same 
problem with Crane's Museo which printed with FS inks game me the best black. 
Actually the black on EEM looks much deeper. The only paper from the ones I used 
where black is as it should is Hahnemuhle and I wouldn't mind using just that if I won 
the lottery. Is it possible I was shipped the wrong black (although it's labeled Eboni)?
Have others noticed the same problem?
This is on a 1280/QTR/CFS system if that makes any diference.

Andu

What I've noticed with this paper and the UT inkset is that the dmax 
is a lot lower than with EEM. It prints too cold for my taste.

The same thing has been noticed on the Piezo list with the Piezo-
Tones inkset.

Cheers,
Andre

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "px3n120x" 
<px3n120x@y...> wrote:
> Bought a pack of Premier (Museum) and didn't get satisfactory 
results with UT.
> The issue is the black which if used over 75% becomes slightly 
shiny. 

> Have others noticed the same problem?
> This is on a 1280/QTR/CFS system if that makes any diference.
> 
> Andu

I have PremierArt curves for the 1280 that takes care of the coolness of
this paper.  (I also have curves for UltraSmooth -- the same paper from what
I can see -- for some other printers).  The dmax was about 1.62 --
competitive with many cotton papers, but not up to EEM or PhotoRag (usually
about 1.68 & 1.66, respectively, with the 1280 & Eboni).

A shiny black is usually a sign of over saturated paper, and it will
actually lower the dmax.  I have not seen with the Epson driver.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: sceptre12345 [mailto:am1000@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:32 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Premier paper and UT


What I've noticed with this paper and the UT inkset is that the dmax
is a lot lower than with EEM. It prints too cold for my taste.

The same thing has been noticed on the Piezo list with the Piezo-
Tones inkset.

Cheers,
Andre

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "px3n120x"
<px3n120x@y...> wrote:
> Bought a pack of Premier (Museum) and didn't get satisfactory
results with UT.
> The issue is the black which if used over 75% becomes slightly
shiny.
> Have others noticed the same problem?
> This is on a 1280/QTR/CFS system if that makes any diference.
>
> Andu



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I've tried Premier Art Matte Scrapbook Paper on the 1280 with UT and 
the Roark curves for that specific paper. The results are not nearly 
as good as EEM or PhotoRag. 

Evan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wolarsky" <wolarsky@i...> 
wrote:
> I've tried Premier Art Matte Scrapbook Paper on the 1280 with UT and 
> the Roark curves for that specific paper. The results are not nearly 
> as good as EEM or PhotoRag. 

So the consensus is that this paper aside from being cotton is not worth using even at 
the decent price. I'll stick to Moab for lower grade.

Andu

> 
> Evan

Paul,
Any chances that these curves will be available for the Epson 1160 or 
is what is available for the 1160 the same as for the 1280 as far as 
taking care of the coolness of the paper?
Cheers,
Andre


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I have PremierArt curves for the 1280 that takes care of the 
coolness of
> this paper.  (I also have curves for UltraSmooth -- the same paper 
from what
> I can see -- for some other printers).  The dmax was about 1.62 --
> competitive with many cotton papers, but not up to EEM or PhotoRag 
(usually
> about 1.68 & 1.66, respectively, with the 1280 & Eboni).
> 
> A shiny black is usually a sign of over saturated paper, and it will
> actually lower the dmax.  I have not seen with the Epson driver.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> _________________________________
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sceptre12345 [mailto:am1000@v...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:32 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Premier paper and UT
> 
> 
> What I've noticed with this paper and the UT inkset is that the dmax
> is a lot lower than with EEM. It prints too cold for my taste.
> 
> The same thing has been noticed on the Piezo list with the Piezo-
> Tones inkset.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "px3n120x"
> <px3n120x@y...> wrote:
> > Bought a pack of Premier (Museum) and didn't get satisfactory
> results with UT.
> > The issue is the black which if used over 75% becomes slightly
> shiny.
> > Have others noticed the same problem?
> > This is on a 1280/QTR/CFS system if that makes any diference.
> >
> > Andu
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>So the consensus is that this paper aside from being cotton
>is not worth using even at the decent price.

I don't agree with this assessment.

Epson "UltraSmooth," now sold in smaller sizes as PremierArt Scrapbook
paper, was the first non-flaking cotton paper.  I'm not sure there is
currently any other cotton paper that can claim to be non-flaking.  That's a
fair accomplishment.

It may not have the dmax of EEM or PhotoRag, but it's competitive with
Entrada.

PremierArt also doesn't have the yellowing OBAs that PhotoRag and EEM have.
This may make those papers look good at first, but they won't age as well.
Frankly, I like the natural, non-brightened papers.

I'd say the surface of the PremierArt paper is tougher than PhotoRag (not
only with respect to abrasion but probably also air-borne pollutants -- note
the recent Hahnemuhle problems with packing tape outgassing).

Overall, this product in some respects is simply the best archival paper
there is.  For the prints I sell that are expected to last, UltraSmooth is
the paper I use -- printed with UT inks.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> >So the consensus is that this paper aside from being cotton
> >is not worth using even at the decent price.
> 
> I don't agree with this assessment.

A while ago you had a different opinion on the paper I'm talking about:

 " I tried some InkJetArt Museum and found it very disappointing. It's not
 Epson UltraSmooth. I had lots of flaking with the InkJetArt Museum.
 
 Paul"

> 
> Epson "UltraSmooth," now sold in smaller sizes as PremierArt Scrapbook
> paper, was the first non-flaking cotton paper.  I'm not sure there is
> currently any other cotton paper that can claim to be non-flaking.  That's a
> fair accomplishment.

Don't know what "flaking" is though I see it mentioned quite often but I guess it's not 
that faint black that bothers me.

Andu

> 
> It may not have the dmax of EEM or PhotoRag, but it's competitive with
> Entrada.
> 
> PremierArt also doesn't have the yellowing OBAs that PhotoRag and EEM have.
> This may make those papers look good at first, but they won't age as well.
> Frankly, I like the natural, non-brightened papers.
> 
> I'd say the surface of the PremierArt paper is tougher than PhotoRag (not
> only with respect to abrasion but probably also air-borne pollutants -- note
> the recent Hahnemuhle problems with packing tape outgassing).
> 
> Overall, this product in some respects is simply the best archival paper
> there is.  For the prints I sell that are expected to last, UltraSmooth is
> the paper I use -- printed with UT inks.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

>
> A while ago you had a different opinion on the paper I'm talking about:
>
>  " I tried some InkJetArt Museum and found it very disappointing. It's not
>  Epson UltraSmooth. I had lots of flaking with the InkJetArt Museum.

Okay - you said you were talking about (Premier) Museum?

I don't think Inkjet Art Museum and Premier Art Fine Art Hot Pressed are the
same paper (Inkjetart says they are similar, that the Museum is a "modified"
version).

It would seem there are significant differences between the two in practice?

tim

Andu,

I think we might be talking about different papers.

The InkJetArt Museum paper I received did not act the same as the Epson
UltraSmooth I have used.

The PremierArt Fine Art (aka "Hot Press") paper I received from
PhotoWarehouse.biz did print much like the Epson UltraSmooth, not the
InkJetArt Museum.  A number of sources suggest, if not outright say, that
the Epson UltraSmooth and Scrapbook papers are PremierArt paper.

I went back to the InkJetArt page and can see that they imply their "Museum"
paper is very similar to the PremierArt paper, but I don't think they are
the same.

The "flaking" that I refer to that seems to plague smooth cotton papers is
when little bits of the coating come off, leaving a white pinhole in the
printed image.  With many of the cotton papers, including PhotoRag and
Entrada, many recommend they be brushed or wiped off before printing to
avoid this problem.  Apparently the "flaking" is due to little bits of
coating that are loose and will come off.  It's very irritating, and with
roll paper, it's impossible to wipe it off first.  The
UltraSmooth/PremierArt lack of this problem as well as the lack of OBAs is
what attracts me to it.

At any rate, for the best dmax on a cotton paper, PhotoRag is still the
champ (until Permajet releases the beta paper they sent to me).  I wish the
PremierArt papers could match it, but they are about 0.03 lower (plus or
minus a little).

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: px3n120x [mailto:px3n120x@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:43 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Premier paper and UT


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> >So the consensus is that this paper aside from being cotton
> >is not worth using even at the decent price.
>
> I don't agree with this assessment.

A while ago you had a different opinion on the paper I'm talking about:

 " I tried some InkJetArt Museum and found it very disappointing. It's not
 Epson UltraSmooth. I had lots of flaking with the InkJetArt Museum.

 Paul"

>
> Epson "UltraSmooth," now sold in smaller sizes as PremierArt Scrapbook
> paper, was the first non-flaking cotton paper.  I'm not sure there is
> currently any other cotton paper that can claim to be non-flaking.  That's
a
> fair accomplishment.

Don't know what "flaking" is though I see it mentioned quite often but I
guess it's not
that faint black that bothers me.

Andu

>
> It may not have the dmax of EEM or PhotoRag, but it's competitive with
> Entrada.
>
> PremierArt also doesn't have the yellowing OBAs that PhotoRag and EEM
have.
> This may make those papers look good at first, but they won't age as well.
> Frankly, I like the natural, non-brightened papers.
>
> I'd say the surface of the PremierArt paper is tougher than PhotoRag (not
> only with respect to abrasion but probably also air-borne pollutants --
note
> the recent Hahnemuhle problems with packing tape outgassing).
>
> Overall, this product in some respects is simply the best archival paper
> there is.  For the prints I sell that are expected to last, UltraSmooth is
> the paper I use -- printed with UT inks.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Andu,
> 
> I think we might be talking about different papers.

So it seems but I did say Museum :)

> 
> The InkJetArt Museum paper I received did not act the same as the Epson
> UltraSmooth I have used.
> 
> The PremierArt Fine Art (aka "Hot Press") paper I received from
> PhotoWarehouse.biz did print much like the Epson UltraSmooth, not the
> InkJetArt Museum.  A number of sources suggest, if not outright say, that
> the Epson UltraSmooth and Scrapbook papers are PremierArt paper.

Yes I actually bought it following one of 2 links from a post here, one to InkJetArt and 
the other to Photowarehouse. Looks like I made the wrong choice.
So Photowarehouse Fine Art is not the same with InkJetArt Museum and the 
PremierArt by Epson is yet another one? Market forces at work. No, I'll keep my life 
simple, this was supposed to be fun.

> 
> I went back to the InkJetArt page and can see that they imply their "Museum"
> paper is very similar to the PremierArt paper, but I don't think they are
> the same.
> 
> The "flaking" that I refer to that seems to plague smooth cotton papers is
> when little bits of the coating come off, leaving a white pinhole in the
> printed image.  With many of the cotton papers, including PhotoRag and
> Entrada, many recommend they be brushed or wiped off before printing to
> avoid this problem.  Apparently the "flaking" is due to little bits of
> coating that are loose and will come off.  It's very irritating, and with
> roll paper, it's impossible to wipe it off first.  The
> UltraSmooth/PremierArt lack of this problem as well as the lack of OBAs is
> what attracts me to it.

Thanks for the explanation, it's what I imagined. Could it be more specific to rolled 
paper since I noticed these ink-less spots very few times in the hundreds of prints I 
did on cut rag paper?

> 
> At any rate, for the best dmax on a cotton paper, PhotoRag is still the
> champ (until Permajet releases the beta paper they sent to me).  I wish the
> PremierArt papers could match it, but they are about 0.03 lower (plus or
> minus a little).
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

I agree with Paul, my early results with this paper
and UT inks are very encouraging. 
john e

--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> 
> >So the consensus is that this paper aside from
> being cotton
> >is not worth using even at the decent price.
> 
> I don't agree with this assessment.
> 
> Epson "UltraSmooth," now sold in smaller sizes as
> PremierArt Scrapbook
> paper, was the first non-flaking cotton paper.  I'm
> not sure there is
> currently any other cotton paper that can claim to
> be non-flaking.  That's a
> fair accomplishment.
> 
> It may not have the dmax of EEM or PhotoRag, but
> it's competitive with
> Entrada.
> 
> PremierArt also doesn't have the yellowing OBAs that
> PhotoRag and EEM have.
> This may make those papers look good at first, but
> they won't age as well.
> Frankly, I like the natural, non-brightened papers.
> 
> I'd say the surface of the PremierArt paper is
> tougher than PhotoRag (not
> only with respect to abrasion but probably also
> air-borne pollutants -- note
> the recent Hahnemuhle problems with packing tape
> outgassing).
> 
> Overall, this product in some respects is simply the
> best archival paper
> there is.  For the prints I sell that are expected
> to last, UltraSmooth is
> the paper I use -- printed with UT inks.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

yup, if i could get photo rag reults w/o oba's, that
would be the paper for me. so for now its the premier
art.
john e

--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> At any rate, for the best dmax on a cotton paper,
> PhotoRag is still the
> champ (until Permajet releases the beta paper they
> sent to me).  I wish the
> PremierArt papers could match it, but they are about
> 0.03 lower (plus or
> minus a little).

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

It seems the paper you might be talking about is the PremierArt paper.

http://www.premierimagingproducts.com/media/index.html

http://www.inkjetart.com/premier/fine_art.html


Cheers,
Andre




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "px3n120x" 
<px3n120x@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Andu,
> > 
> > I think we might be talking about different papers.
> 
> So it seems but I did say Museum :)
> 
> > 
> > The InkJetArt Museum paper I received did not act the same as the 
Epson
> > UltraSmooth I have used.
> > 
> > The PremierArt Fine Art (aka "Hot Press") paper I received from
> > PhotoWarehouse.biz did print much like the Epson UltraSmooth, not 
the
> > InkJetArt Museum.  A number of sources suggest, if not outright 
say, that
> > the Epson UltraSmooth and Scrapbook papers are PremierArt paper.
> 
> Yes I actually bought it following one of 2 links from a post here, 
one to InkJetArt and 
> the other to Photowarehouse. Looks like I made the wrong choice.
> So Photowarehouse Fine Art is not the same with InkJetArt Museum 
and the 
> PremierArt by Epson is yet another one? Market forces at work. No, 
I'll keep my life 
> simple, this was supposed to be fun.
> 
> > 
> > I went back to the InkJetArt page and can see that they imply 
their "Museum"
> > paper is very similar to the PremierArt paper, but I don't think 
they are
> > the same.
> > 
> > The "flaking" that I refer to that seems to plague smooth cotton 
papers is
> > when little bits of the coating come off, leaving a white pinhole 
in the
> > printed image.  With many of the cotton papers, including 
PhotoRag and
> > Entrada, many recommend they be brushed or wiped off before 
printing to
> > avoid this problem.  Apparently the "flaking" is due to little 
bits of
> > coating that are loose and will come off.  It's very irritating, 
and with
> > roll paper, it's impossible to wipe it off first.  The
> > UltraSmooth/PremierArt lack of this problem as well as the lack 
of OBAs is
> > what attracts me to it.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation, it's what I imagined. Could it be more 
specific to rolled 
> paper since I noticed these ink-less spots very few times in the 
hundreds of prints I 
> did on cut rag paper?
> 
> > 
> > At any rate, for the best dmax on a cotton paper, PhotoRag is 
still the
> > champ (until Permajet releases the beta paper they sent to me).  
I wish the
> > PremierArt papers could match it, but they are about 0.03 lower 
(plus or

> > minus a little).
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul and Andu,

> I think we might be talking about different papers.
> 
> The InkJetArt Museum paper I received did not act the same as the Epson
> UltraSmooth I have used.
> 
> The PremierArt Fine Art (aka "Hot Press") paper I received from
> PhotoWarehouse.biz did print much like the Epson UltraSmooth, not the
> InkJetArt Museum.  A number of sources suggest, if not outright say, that
> the Epson UltraSmooth and Scrapbook papers are PremierArt paper.
> 
> I went back to the InkJetArt page and can see that they imply their "Museum"
> paper is very similar to the PremierArt paper, but I don't think they are
> the same.


I sent the following message to inkjetart:

"I ordered a sample pack of this paper: Museum Digital Art Paper.

I assumed it was the same as this:

PremierArt Hot Press Fine Art

Please be specific as to the differences between these two papers."


This was the reply:

'Weight (thickness), the picture on the label, packaging.
-- 

Chris Bair,                                       Consultant & Webmaster
Inkjet Art Solutions     (this is a signature, don't take it personally)'

Jon

I'm filling my Epson 1280 (virgin) cart's with UT for the first time, but I 
can't find the color positions on the MIS website.  Anybody know?  I 
thought I remembered seeing the info. here, but I can't seem to find it in 
the archives, either.
-Keith

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Douglas 
<kdouglas@q...> wrote:
> I'm filling my Epson 1280 (virgin) cart's with UT for the first 
time, but I 
> can't find the color positions on the MIS website.  Anybody know?  
I 
> thought I remembered seeing the info. here, but I can't seem to 
find it in 
> the archives, either.
> -Keith

Here you go....
http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?
source=html/1270refillprocedure.html

* -----Original Message-----
* From: Keith Douglas [mailto:kdouglas@...] 
* Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 4:20 PM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] Help: refilling 1280 cart's with UT
* 
* 
* I'm filling my Epson 1280 (virgin) cart's with UT for the 
* first time, but I 
* can't find the color positions on the MIS website.  Anybody know?  I 
* thought I remembered seeing the info. here, but I can't seem 
* to find it in 
* the archives, either.

Keith,

It should match Epson cartridges. Looking top down with the cartridge
outlets pointed away from you, left to right:

Cyan, Light Cyan, Magenta, Light Magenta, Yellow

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

> I'm filling my Epson 1280 (virgin) cart's with UT for the first time, but
I
> can't find the color positions on the MIS website.  Anybody know?  I
> thought I remembered seeing the info. here, but I can't seem to find it in
> the archives, either.
> -Keith

You can find it on
http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/1270refillprocedure.html