Digital BW, The Print

Hi all:

Here's a mystery (at least to me) that you might help solve.

For some time now, I have been seeing strange geometric artifacts in 
my prints as a direct result of sharpening.  These artifacts are 
generally in the form of parallel bands, but at least once appeared 
as a basketweave pattern.  (This is not microbanding; in fact, it 
can't be discerned through a loupe, only with the naked eye.)  Not 
all prints have them.  They are usually confined to relatively 
limited (but always different) areas of the print; the only common 
element is that they tend to appear in relatively detail-free 
transitions from highlights to midtones, like cloudy skies.  Lastly, 
they occur only when an image has been sharpened, and it doesn't seem 
to matter how the sharpening has been done.  (I get the same thing 
with Nik, PhotoKit Sharpener, Atkinson's edge sharpening macro, and 
plain old USM.)

Ever seen anything like that?  (If I had a flatbed I'd scan one and 
post it for you.  That's another interesting thing:  the artifacts do 
not appear on screen - see exception below - but only in the print.)

Here's the relevant background:  all images are 35mm Tri-X scanned as 
grayscale negatives at 4000dpi, 14 bit files (with 16x resampling) on 
a Nikon 4000, with USM off (at least I think).  They are printed on 
PhotoRag on a 1280.  Until last night, I exclusively used Selenium 
PiezoTones and the plug-in, which I came to blame for the problem.  
To test that, I got some UT's from MIS and made prints using Paul's 
curves and the Epson driver:  same artifacts, except now, for the 
first time, I could see them on screen after Paul's curve had been 
applied.  Also, I have two 1280s, purchased well over a year apart, 
and the problem occurs on both of them.

As you can probably tell, this is driving me nuts.  Any ideas?

Thanks a lot.

Chuck

(Cross-posted to Piezo list.)

> From: cschaible94111 [mailto:cschaible@...]
>
> Here's the relevant background:  all images are 35mm Tri-X scanned as
> grayscale negatives at 4000dpi, 14 bit files (with 16x resampling) on
> a Nikon 4000, with USM off (at least I think).  They are printed on
> PhotoRag on a 1280.  Until last night, I exclusively used Selenium
> PiezoTones and the plug-in, which I came to blame for the problem.
> To test that, I got some UT's from MIS and made prints using Paul's
> curves and the Epson driver:  same artifacts, except now, for the
> first time, I could see them on screen after Paul's curve had been
> applied.  Also, I have two 1280s, purchased well over a year apart,
> and the problem occurs on both of them.

If you can see it on the screen, why not post a small TIFF or JPEG crop of
the area where the problem is visible? It might be possible to figure out by
actually looking at it.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

I noticed this:
If you are using a developer like Rodinal you are getting very 
distinkt grain and "edgesharpening" on the film. An effekt that is in 
a way simular to USM in Photoshop. That is you are getting into 
trouble when sharpening this "Rodinal-type" films in photoshop.
Using a scanner and Photoshop I have noticed that I get better 
control and better sharpening without artifacts using developers like 
Microldol-X that gives mushier softer grain and no "edgsharpening".
Using a microdol-x type of developer makes you get easier scanned 
negatives as well - that later, as said, can be sharpened with USM in 
Photoshop instead. This gives me better control and no edgeartifacts.

I don't know if this helps you - but perhaps it helps somone else.
(I use a Minolta Multi Pro Scanner)

Lux!
Bo Wrangborg
Sweden  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. 
DeRocco" <pderocco@i...> wrote:
> > From: cschaible94111 [mailto:cschaible@c...]
> >
> > Here's the relevant background:  all images are 35mm Tri-X 
scanned as
> > grayscale negatives at 4000dpi, 14 bit files (with 16x 
resampling) on
> > a Nikon 4000, with USM off (at least I think).  They are printed 
on
> > PhotoRag on a 1280.  Until last night, I exclusively used Selenium
> > PiezoTones and the plug-in, which I came to blame for the problem.
> > To test that, I got some UT's from MIS and made prints using 
Paul's
> > curves and the Epson driver:  same artifacts, except now, for the
> > first time, I could see them on screen after Paul's curve had been
> > applied.  Also, I have two 1280s, purchased well over a year 
apart,
> > and the problem occurs on both of them.
> 
> If you can see it on the screen, why not post a small TIFF or JPEG 
crop of
> the area where the problem is visible? It might be possible to 
figure out by

> actually looking at it.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

This happened to me recently and I discovered that I had changed the 
interpolation to nearest neighbor when I was shrinking down a logo, and 
forgot to change it back to bicubic. Could this by any chance be your 
problem?

Barbara White
http://www.worldartphotographs.com

On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 09:58  AM, cschaible94111 wrote:

> For some time now, I have been seeing strange geometric artifacts in
> my prints as a direct result of sharpening.

Barbara:  Thanks for the reply.  However, I'm not aware of any 
interpolation in my workflow.  I just take what the scanner gives and 
do some tonal adjustment in PS6.  Do you see any way for the problem 
you describe to arise without me doing anything overt to evoke it?  
Thanks again.  Chuck

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barbara White 
<barbara@b...> wrote:
> This happened to me recently and I discovered that I had changed 
the 
> interpolation to nearest neighbor when I was shrinking down a logo, 
and 
> forgot to change it back to bicubic. Could this by any chance be 
your 
> problem?
> 
> Barbara White
> http://www.worldartphotographs.com
> 
> On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 09:58  AM, cschaible94111 wrote:
> 
> > For some time now, I have been seeing strange geometric artifacts 
in
> > my prints as a direct result of sharpening.

You have the wrong Barbara.  My last name is Woolner.

B
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cschaible94111" <cschaible@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Weird Sharpening Artifacts - Please Help


> Barbara:  Thanks for the reply.  However, I'm not aware of any
> interpolation in my workflow.  I just take what the scanner gives and
> do some tonal adjustment in PS6.  Do you see any way for the problem
> you describe to arise without me doing anything overt to evoke it?
> Thanks again.  Chuck
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barbara White
> <barbara@b...> wrote:
> > This happened to me recently and I discovered that I had changed
> the
> > interpolation to nearest neighbor when I was shrinking down a logo,
> and
> > forgot to change it back to bicubic. Could this by any chance be
> your
> > problem?
> >
> > Barbara White
> > http://www.worldartphotographs.com
> >
> > On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 09:58  AM, cschaible94111 wrote:
> >
> > > For some time now, I have been seeing strange geometric artifacts
> in
> > > my prints as a direct result of sharpening.
>
>
>
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