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Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-20 by Jack M Kucy

In my opinion it's much warmer.  When you thought they are close you 
must have looked at them using a normal household incandescent light. 
 Then the difference is not that obvious I suppose.
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle


David Wroblewski wrote:

> I just (re)opened a box of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308
> that I haven't used since I printed Christmas
> pictures last year. I loosely resealed the box and set
> it aside last December.
>
> My recollection is that Photo Rag is virtually the same
> color as Epson Enhanced Matt.
>
> When I look at it now, however, it is distinctly warmer
> than EEM, a light creamy color. Not ugly, just warmer than
> I expected. The warm tone is totally even on all sheets
> of the paper in the box. It doesn't look like discoloration,
> but on the other hand, I could swear it was closer to
> EEM-white when I first used it. But maybe I've just gotten
> too used to looking at EEM...
>
> Could someone confirm that Photo Rag is indeed warmer
> than EEM?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
>
>

--

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-20 by David Wroblewski

It's very possible that I'm recalling what PR looked like under
incandescent lighting. I'm viewing them next to a window under
midday north light today; last year I was doing most of my 
printing in the evenings.

Thanks to both of you who responded--this puts my mind at ease.
I was worried I hadn't stored the paper correctly.

david

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy 
<jmk@j...> wrote:
> In my opinion it's much warmer.  When you thought they are close 
you 
> must have looked at them using a normal household incandescent 
light. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  Then the difference is not that obvious I suppose.
> Jack
> 
> _________________________________________________
> Jack M Kucy
> JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> 917-991-2096     jmk@j...
> Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> _________________________________________________
> ...a riveder le stelle
> 
> 
> David Wroblewski wrote:
> 
> > I just (re)opened a box of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308
> > that I haven't used since I printed Christmas
> > pictures last year. I loosely resealed the box and set
> > it aside last December.
> >
> > My recollection is that Photo Rag is virtually the same
> > color as Epson Enhanced Matt.
> >
> > When I look at it now, however, it is distinctly warmer
> > than EEM, a light creamy color. Not ugly, just warmer than
> > I expected. The warm tone is totally even on all sheets
> > of the paper in the box. It doesn't look like discoloration,
> > but on the other hand, I could swear it was closer to
> > EEM-white when I first used it. But maybe I've just gotten
> > too used to looking at EEM...
> >
> > Could someone confirm that Photo Rag is indeed warmer
> > than EEM?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-21 by mrjerryjm

Something didn't sound right about Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 being 
regarded as "warmer" than Epson Enhanced Matte, so I measured new, 
unused surfaces of each in Lab mode.

Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308:  L 104.7   a -2.36   b 2.71
Epson Enhanced Matte:      L 103.8   a -3.20   b 3.75

Hahnemühle Photo Rag is both "brighter" and "whiter" (more neutral) 
than Epson Enhanced Matte.

Measured with a calibrated Color Savvy Spectrophotometer. Perhaps 
someone else with a spectrophotometer or color densitometer cares to 
validate this observation?

Jerry McCollum



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David 
Wroblewski" <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> It's very possible that I'm recalling what PR looked like under
> incandescent lighting. I'm viewing them next to a window under
> midday north light today; last year I was doing most of my 
> printing in the evenings.
> 
> Thanks to both of you who responded--this puts my mind at ease.
> I was worried I hadn't stored the paper correctly.
> 
> david
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy 
> <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > In my opinion it's much warmer.  When you thought they are close 
> you 
> > must have looked at them using a normal household incandescent 
> light. 
> >  Then the difference is not that obvious I suppose.
> > Jack
> > 
> > _________________________________________________
> > Jack M Kucy
> > JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> > 917-991-2096     jmk@j...
> > Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> > _________________________________________________
> > ...a riveder le stelle
> > 
> > 
> > David Wroblewski wrote:
> > 
> > > I just (re)opened a box of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308
> > > that I haven't used since I printed Christmas
> > > pictures last year. I loosely resealed the box and set
> > > it aside last December.
> > >
> > > My recollection is that Photo Rag is virtually the same
> > > color as Epson Enhanced Matt.
> > >
> > > When I look at it now, however, it is distinctly warmer
> > > than EEM, a light creamy color. Not ugly, just warmer than
> > > I expected. The warm tone is totally even on all sheets
> > > of the paper in the box. It doesn't look like discoloration,
> > > but on the other hand, I could swear it was closer to
> > > EEM-white when I first used it. But maybe I've just gotten
> > > too used to looking at EEM...
> > >
> > > Could someone confirm that Photo Rag is indeed warmer
> > > than EEM?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > --

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-21 by Barrett Benton

Not to dispute your findings, but from my experience I'ave always 
found HPR to be at least a bit warmer than EAM/EEM, at least to 
the eye.

- Barrett

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"mrjerryjm" <jerry.mccollum@c...> wrote:
> Something didn't sound right about Hahnemühle Photo Rag 
308 being 
> regarded as "warmer" than Epson Enhanced Matte, so I 
measured new, 
> unused surfaces of each in Lab mode.
> 
> Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308:  L 104.7   a -2.36   b 2.71
> Epson Enhanced Matte:      L 103.8   a -3.20   b 3.75
> 
> Hahnemühle Photo Rag is both "brighter" and "whiter" (more 
neutral) 
> than Epson Enhanced Matte.
> 
> Measured with a calibrated Color Savvy Spectrophotometer. 
Perhaps 
> someone else with a spectrophotometer or color densitometer 
cares to 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> validate this observation?
> 
> Jerry McCollum

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-21 by David Wroblewski

Thanks for doing that measurement.

I went back and looked at identical sample prints I made last 
year on about two dozen different papers. Sure enough, the 
HPR sample appears to be a very light cream color when held 
next to the EEM. And when I hold it next to a one of the sheets
I was using today, they match, exactly, to my eye. 

I don't have a spectrophotometer, but the warmth in my HPR
is unmistakable, particularly when held side-by-side with EEM.

It would be interesting if other folks with fancy equipment
got the same result as you. I wouldn't know how to explain it,
though.

-david




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjerryjm" 
<jerry.mccollum@c...> wrote:
> Something didn't sound right about Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308
being 
> regarded as "warmer" than Epson Enhanced Matte, so I measured new, 
> unused surfaces of each in Lab mode.
> 
> Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308:  L 104.7   a -2.36   b 2.71
> Epson Enhanced Matte:      L 103.8   a -3.20   b 3.75
> 
> Hahnemühle Photo Rag is both "brighter" and "whiter" (more 
neutral) 
> than Epson Enhanced Matte.
> 
> Measured with a calibrated Color Savvy Spectrophotometer. Perhaps 
> someone else with a spectrophotometer or color densitometer cares 
to 
> validate this observation?
> 
> Jerry McCollum
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David 
> Wroblewski" <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
> > It's very possible that I'm recalling what PR looked like under
> > incandescent lighting. I'm viewing them next to a window under
> > midday north light today; last year I was doing most of my 
> > printing in the evenings.
> > 
> > Thanks to both of you who responded--this puts my mind at ease.
> > I was worried I hadn't stored the paper correctly.
> > 
> > david
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy 
> > <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > > In my opinion it's much warmer.  When you thought they are 
close 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > you 
> > > must have looked at them using a normal household incandescent 
> > light. 
> > >  Then the difference is not that obvious I suppose.
> > > Jack
> > > 
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > Jack M Kucy
> > > JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> > > 917-991-2096     jmk@j...
> > > Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > ...a riveder le stelle
> > > 
> > > 
> > > David Wroblewski wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I just (re)opened a box of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308
> > > > that I haven't used since I printed Christmas
> > > > pictures last year. I loosely resealed the box and set
> > > > it aside last December.
> > > >
> > > > My recollection is that Photo Rag is virtually the same
> > > > color as Epson Enhanced Matt.
> > > >
> > > > When I look at it now, however, it is distinctly warmer
> > > > than EEM, a light creamy color. Not ugly, just warmer than
> > > > I expected. The warm tone is totally even on all sheets
> > > > of the paper in the box. It doesn't look like discoloration,
> > > > but on the other hand, I could swear it was closer to
> > > > EEM-white when I first used it. But maybe I've just gotten
> > > > too used to looking at EEM...
> > > >
> > > > Could someone confirm that Photo Rag is indeed warmer
> > > > than EEM?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > --

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-21 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "David Wroblewski" <dawroblewski@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?


Thanks for doing that measurement.

I went back and looked at identical sample prints I made last
year on about two dozen different papers. Sure enough, the
HPR sample appears to be a very light cream color when held
next to the EEM. And when I hold it next to a one of the sheets
I was using today, they match, exactly, to my eye.

I don't have a spectrophotometer, but the warmth in my HPR
is unmistakable, particularly when held side-by-side with EEM.

It would be interesting if other folks with fancy equipment
got the same result as you. I wouldn't know how to explain it,
though.

-david


A bit more optical brightener in one of the papers and different
lighting conditions would fool anyone's eye, even spectrometres
without a UV filter.
Don't have the EEM here but PhotoRag is still a warm paper in my
endless collection of art papers (not just inkjet).

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-21 by digikdm

No way. all you need to do is look at them in good lighting.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjerryjm" 
<jerry.mccollum@c...> wrote:
> Something didn't sound right about Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 being 
> regarded as "warmer" than Epson Enhanced Matte, so I measured new, 
> unused surfaces of each in Lab mode.
> 
> Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308:  L 104.7   a -2.36   b 2.71
> Epson Enhanced Matte:      L 103.8   a -3.20   b 3.75
> 
> Hahnemühle Photo Rag is both "brighter" and "whiter" (more neutral) 
> than Epson Enhanced Matte.
> 
> Measured with a calibrated Color Savvy Spectrophotometer. Perhaps 
> someone else with a spectrophotometer or color densitometer cares 
to 
> validate this observation?
> 
> Jerry McCollum
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David 
> Wroblewski" <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
> > It's very possible that I'm recalling what PR looked like under
> > incandescent lighting. I'm viewing them next to a window under
> > midday north light today; last year I was doing most of my 
> > printing in the evenings.
> > 
> > Thanks to both of you who responded--this puts my mind at ease.
> > I was worried I hadn't stored the paper correctly.
> > 
> > david
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy 
> > <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > > In my opinion it's much warmer.  When you thought they are 
close 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > you 
> > > must have looked at them using a normal household incandescent 
> > light. 
> > >  Then the difference is not that obvious I suppose.
> > > Jack
> > > 
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > Jack M Kucy
> > > JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> > > 917-991-2096     jmk@j...
> > > Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > ...a riveder le stelle
> > > 
> > > 
> > > David Wroblewski wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I just (re)opened a box of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308
> > > > that I haven't used since I printed Christmas
> > > > pictures last year. I loosely resealed the box and set
> > > > it aside last December.
> > > >
> > > > My recollection is that Photo Rag is virtually the same
> > > > color as Epson Enhanced Matt.
> > > >
> > > > When I look at it now, however, it is distinctly warmer
> > > > than EEM, a light creamy color. Not ugly, just warmer than
> > > > I expected. The warm tone is totally even on all sheets
> > > > of the paper in the box. It doesn't look like discoloration,
> > > > but on the other hand, I could swear it was closer to
> > > > EEM-white when I first used it. But maybe I've just gotten
> > > > too used to looking at EEM...
> > > >
> > > > Could someone confirm that Photo Rag is indeed warmer
> > > > than EEM?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > --

Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag 308 color--warmer than EEM?

2003-11-21 by mrjerryjm

> A bit more optical brightener in one of the papers and different
> lighting conditions would fool anyone's eye, even spectrometres
> without a UV filter.
> Don't have the EEM here but PhotoRag is still a warm paper in my
> endless collection of art papers (not just inkjet).
> 
> Ernst

Good observation, Ernst. I don't know whether my Colormouse is UV 
filtered or not. Now I WANT to know since I use it to check printing 
densities on my 7600 with various papers, brightened and un-
brightened.

Jerry

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