Digital BW, The Print

Hello all

Could anyone please direct me to a Website/Forum giving detailled
advice on e.g. how to install a "Scratch Disk" etc. - broadly speaking
all the tipps and tricks of the trade you need to know ensuring top
performance of Photoshop.

Thanks

Chatzebussi

Chatzebussi

Here is how to optimize the performance of Photoshop CS. But cum grano
salis most of it holds true for optimizing PS 7.0 as well - e.g. the
chapter on how to set scratch disks.

http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/12dde.htm

Hope this helps

Chatzebussi II


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chatzebussi"
<chatzebussi@y...> wrote:
> Hello all
> 
> Could anyone please direct me to a Website/Forum giving detailled
> advice on e.g. how to install a "Scratch Disk" etc. - broadly
speaking

> all the tipps and tricks of the trade you need to know ensuring top
> performance of Photoshop.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chatzebussi

> Here is how to optimize the performance of Photoshop CS. But cum
grano
> salis most of it holds true for optimizing PS 7.0 as well - e.g. the
> chapter on how to set scratch disks.
> 
> http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/12dde.htm

Looks like great stuff.  Any idea where to find the corresponding
document for Mac OSX ?  I tried the search engine, but it seems
to suck badly.  For example, when I searched Product=Photoshop,
Platform=MacOS, keyword=performance, it came up with zilch.

Thanks, John

At 2:01 PM +0000 12/2/03, johngeyles wrote:
>  > [snip]
>>  http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/12dde.htm
>
>Looks like great stuff [for Windows].  Any idea where to find the 
>corresponding document for Mac OSX ?  [snip]


<http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/c9ba.htm>

>  	Optimize performance in Photoshop (Mac OS)
>What's covered
>Photoshop options and plug-ins
>Image files
>Operating system software
>Hardware
>Resources
>
>Available random-access memory (RAM) and computer processor speed 
>have the greatest effect on the performance of Adobe Photoshop. 
>However, [big snip]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johngeyles" 
John

<jge@c...> wrote (quoting Chatzebussis posting)

> > Here is how to optimize the performance of Photoshop CS. But cum
> grano
> > salis most of it holds true for optimizing PS 7.0 as well - e.g.
the
> > chapter on how to set scratch disks.
> > 
> > http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/12dde.htm
> 
> Looks like great stuff.  Any idea where to find the corresponding
> document for Mac OSX ?  I tried the search engine, but it seems
> to suck badly.  For example, when I searched Product=Photoshop,
> Platform=MacOS, keyword=performance, it came up with zilch.
> 
> Thanks, John

John
Sorry, I can't help you out there. I am on a PC. As you will have
realized, Chatzebussi II had to come to the rescue and direct
Chatzebussi(I) to the URL you call "great stuff" ...And great stuff it
is IMHO (In actual fact I am hoping to get a more stable and faster
performance of PS7 once reinstalled on my new laptop).

May I again ask the experts on this forum - even though this may be
slightly OT -   where questions like optimizing scratch disks for PS
and the like are actually being discussed.

Thanks

Chatzebussi

Am I the only one who finds it strange, considering the way it needs 
VAST amounts of scratch space, that Adobe sent CS out the door only able 
to access 2 GB of RAM?

That said, for those with machines that have RAM above and beyond 2gB, I 
would suggest looking at some RAM disk products for the primary scratch 
disk... Looks like CS will probably end up rejuvenating the RAM disk 
market..

If you print from within PhotoShop, you may also want to consider using 
a RAM disk to spool files to.. Should give you faster print spooling and 
get you back to work in PShop more quickly during print runs.  Just make 
sure it is larger than the total (as in the total size for all documents 
you generally find in the queue during heavy use) spooled size of your 
largest images... (check your print queue during runs of large images 
for this info - keep in mind that given the way PShop and the EPSON 
driver work, multiple copies will multiply this figure)  You can change 
the spool disk location from the EPSON driver.

One important thing for Wintel people.. When you create the SWAP and 
SCRATCH partitions, DO NOT USE NTFS for scratch disks.. You're only 
going to have one file name on those partitions and you don't need the 
file security features of NTFS...  If you ar doing scratch disks of 2gB 
or less, use FAT, for scratch disks over 2gB go with FAT32. Both 
versions of FAT are aster than NTFS with small numbers of files, while 
FAT is the fastest when working with small numbers of large files (of 
course it can't format beyond 2 gB)..

Finally, I have some tips for EPSON drivers and PhotoShop 7 on WinTel 
boxes. You can find them over in the EPSON_Printers group at:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/files/System%20Performance/>


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

> From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...]
>
> Am I the only one who finds it strange, considering the way it needs
> VAST amounts of scratch space, that Adobe sent CS out the door only able
> to access 2 GB of RAM?

That's a Windows limitation. Indeed, the CPU itself limits a single process
to 4GB. Have to wait for the 64-bitters.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

For some more tweaks and links.. check out my Photoshp 7 & CS post of today.


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Keith,
I'll have to agree with Paul on this one that the limitation is within
Windows.
That said, I have a Pentium 4 - 2.4 GHz machine with 2Gb of RAM and I am not
experiencing any slowdowns until I get a 300 Mb tiff file or larger? I am
printing from within CS and it takes me no longer than when PS-7 was
installed?

This is my experience thusfar. Would you be able to tell us more about the
symptoms which you are encountering?
Thanks, Owen

Owen Evans
J.33.3

" Many men stumble across the truth, but most
manage to pick themselves up and continue
as if nothing had happened."
--Winston Churchill--

At 9:08 AM -0800 12/2/03, Paul D. DeRocco wrote:
>  > [snip] Am I the only one who finds it strange, considering the 
>way it needs VAST amounts of >scratch space, that Adobe sent CS out 
>the door only able to access 2 GB of RAM? [snip]
>
>That's a Windows limitation. Indeed, the CPU itself limits a single 
>processto 4GB. Have to wait for the 64-bitters.

More myopia 8) : there's no wait for a 64-bitter built to your order 
from $1800 with too little RAM to more than $7500 with 8 GB of RAM. 
See them at:

<http://www.apple.com/powermac/>


Sam

I would try the photoshop list at
http://sparky.listmoms.net/lists/

but if you have a laptop you are unlikely to gain any
benefit from scratch disk placement as you only have
one spindle.

brentley

--- chatzebussi <chatzebussi@...> wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "johngeyles" 
> John
> 
> <jge@c...> wrote (quoting Chatzebussis posting)
> 
> > > Here is how to optimize the performance of
> Photoshop CS. But cum
> > grano
> > > salis most of it holds true for optimizing PS
> 7.0 as well - e.g.
> the
> > > chapter on how to set scratch disks.
> > > 
> > > http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/12dde.htm
> > 
> > Looks like great stuff.  Any idea where to find
> the corresponding
> > document for Mac OSX ?  I tried the search engine,
> but it seems
> > to suck badly.  For example, when I searched
> Product=Photoshop,
> > Platform=MacOS, keyword=performance, it came up
> with zilch.
> > 
> > Thanks, John
> 
> 
> May I again ask the experts on this forum - even
> though this may be
> slightly OT -   where questions like optimizing
> scratch disks for PS
> and the like are actually being discussed.

owenpevans wrote:

>Keith,
>I'll have to agree with Paul on this one that the limitation is within
>Windows.
>  
>
He's right..

>This is my experience thusfar. Would you be able to tell us more about the
>symptoms which you are encountering?
>  
>

Well, it's not a problem YET...

It's more preparation for an upgrade of my system.. I currently have 2gB 
of RAM and dual CPUs...

I'm looking at a new moboard with support for either dual Opterons or 
dual Xeon P4s..  One factor to consider is how much memory I can address 
in the OS and with PShop in particular.. (It's my workhouse application).

However..  I've been playing with some things and found a utility called 
RAMDiskXP.  Up until today, the RAM drive support for XP I had seen... 
Well it was not the greatest..

But, by using this utility and creating a 513 mB ram disk, and setting 
that as the first scratch drive I am seeing a significant performance 
increase in a bunch of operations (BTW: Adobe used to recommend RAM 
scratch disks back in its early incarnations)... That's on layered 
imagery up to 13x19...  If I was into benchmarking this kinda stuff I'd 
run the scratch disk at various sizes and compare how PhotoShop runs 
using the remaining memory in each configuration.. 

My swap file sizes don't generally get beyond half a gB, so I've set up 
two new boot options.. One boots into XP Pro with 1535mB set for Win XP, 
the second does the same but with only 1024 mB set for Windows.. I'm 
generally booting into the first version, but if I am working on a 
really large 16bit image with lots of layers, and intend to do major 
filtering, etc., I can go to the latter option.  Alternatively, if I 
don't expect to be using PhotoShop at all, I can still boot into XP and 
give it access to all the memory, or even boot into Win 98 (the command 
line version is still good for working on system issues - I don't like 
the XP command line interface, it's extremely limiting)

In case anyone wants to try the RAMDisk utility I'm testing, it's at:

http://www.cenatek.com/

and has a 30 day trial period
 

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Before anyone asks...

I already had 4gB of dedicated Hard Drive space on two partitions 
(separate drives)... 

Now I have those disks set as the 2nd and 3rd scratch disks (free space 
on my DATA drive - which is kept defragged - is used as the 4th scratch 
disk) and the RAM disk set as the 1st one in PhotoShop's preferences..


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" 
<editor@p...> wrote:
> Before anyone asks...

I'm sure the moderator would like to ask... but I advise him to let this list go wherever 
it may want, it's so much fun, I already read it like the tabloids at the supermarket, 
you know, the ones about UFO's and other wonderful things going on in the world.
One should see the entertaining factor and the uniqueness in the fact that this list 
specializes in mostly off topic posts. Not many lists can make that claim.

Andu

> 
> I already had 4gB of dedicated Hard Drive space on two partitions 
> (separate drives)... 
> 
> Now I have those disks set as the 2nd and 3rd scratch disks (free space 
> on my DATA drive - which is kept defragged - is used as the 4th scratch 
> disk) and the RAM disk set as the 1st one in PhotoShop's preferences..
> 
> 
>  
> Keith Krebs
>

JUST getting ready to ask that very question, thanks!!!  :-o

John

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PhotoShop 7, PhotoShop CS, and Memory - and performance


  Before anyone asks...

  I already had 4gB of dedicated Hard Drive space on two partitions 
  (separate drives)... 

  Now I have those disks set as the 2nd and 3rd scratch disks (free space 
  on my DATA drive - which is kept defragged - is used as the 4th scratch 
  disk) and the RAM disk set as the 1st one in PhotoShop's preferences..

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hold on guys, if talking about Tri-X the main stay in B&W photography is 
OT - what the hell is talking about computer problems. This is not a 
list about computers it is a list about photography. There are plenty of 
places to get help on computer problems.

Can we get back to photography. I can't help it if Adobe has migrated an 
8 bit product beyond it breaking point nor that Microsoft had migrated 
an 8 bit (some say 2-bit but I won't be so unkind) operating system 
beyond it's breaking point. That has nothing to do with the art and 
craft of photography.

Truman

px3n120x wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
> Image Service"
> <editor@p...> wrote:
> > Before anyone asks...
>
> I'm sure the moderator would like to ask... but I advise him to let 
> this list go wherever
> it may want, it's so much fun, I already read it like the tabloids at 
> the supermarket,
> you know, the ones about UFO's and other wonderful things going on in 
> the world.
> One should see the entertaining factor and the uniqueness in the fact 
> that this list
> specializes in mostly off topic posts. Not many lists can make that claim.
>
> Andu
>
> >
> > I already had 4gB of dedicated Hard Drive space on two partitions
> > (separate drives)...
> >
> > Now I have those disks set as the 2nd and 3rd scratch disks (free space
> > on my DATA drive - which is kept defragged - is used as the 4th scratch
> > disk) and the RAM disk set as the 1st one in PhotoShop's preferences..
> >
> >
> > 
> > Keith Krebs
> >
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like Tri-X as much as anyone, but the list is 'digital BW'.  Now, I
suppose talking about scanning Tri-X ad nauseum would be ok!  :)

Robbe

-----Original Message-----
From: Truman Prevatt [mailto:tprevatt@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:40 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PhotoShop 7, PhotoShop CS, and Memory - and
performance

Hold on guys, if talking about Tri-X the main stay in B&W photography is

OT - what the hell is talking about computer problems. This is not a 
list about computers it is a list about photography. There are plenty of

places to get help on computer problems.

I suspect that most of us are on here because we have given up the wet 
dark room and have taken the ink jet plunge. Most of use are on here 
because we care about B&W - pledge to forsake all other forms ( except 
for a few trolls, misfits and other subhuman creatures ). While a 
computer is an necessary tool in this process, this is not a computer 
forum. While most use PS from time to time (I use it as little as 
possible),  it's not the only imaging package nor necessarily the best 
imaging package available.

This is not a forum about computer issues or S/W issues with PS or 
memory management issues with Windows. Before one can have "Digital B&W" 
one first needs an image either form a digital camera (having to do with 
photography) to convert, a negative (which has to come from a film again 
having to do with photography) or on an odd occasion a print scanned and 
to be printed.

There are plenty of places to discuss computer problems. If the 
discussion of the mainstay of B&W photography is off limits, then why 
the hell isn't the limitations of a 32 bit processor and how to get 
around it?

Truman



Robbe Gibson wrote:

> I like Tri-X as much as anyone, but the list is 'digital BW'.  Now, I
> suppose talking about scanning Tri-X ad nauseum would be ok!  :)
>
> Robbe
>

Truman Prevatt wrote:

>Hold on guys, if talking about Tri-X the main stay in B&W photography is 
>OT - what the hell is talking about computer problems.
>
1)    I'm not talking about computer problems..

What I am talking about is what others have already been discussing in a 
topic on re-installing Photoshop 7.

"How to get PhotoShop to run best."

In case you forget, this list is about Digital B&W Prints, NOT B&W 
photography per se- that's why a number of people complained about the 
Tri-X topic: ostensibly, the film (assuming a digital workflow) has very 
little to do with printing...  However, talking about running  PhotoShop 
efficiently, the #1 application for printing and preparing files for 
print, is certainly as on-topic as talking about QTR, ImagePrint, or 
OPM/IJC... In fact, Paul Roark's curves, one of the prime methods for 
using quadtone inks,  are applied via PhotoShop...

2)   If you are going to complain I suggest the following bit of old 
advice "he who is without sin may cast the first stone"..

And how much of this thread (inclusions which were not necessary for 
context) did each of you find necessary to include with your responses?

Show SOME respect, if you're going to go around demanding it..



 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Truman Prevatt wrote:

>
>There are plenty of places to discuss computer problems. If the 
>discussion of the mainstay of B&W photography is off limits, then why 
>the hell isn't the limitations of a 32 bit processor and how to get 
>around it?
>
>  
>
It's as relevant as discussing options for getting QTR to run on a 
particular OS.. Where is that post on QTR running on SuSe?  Seems that 
post didn't engender the same level of complaints...  Or are a few people:

A)   trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember, who 
is known for his short temper?

B)   personally dislike me or my attitude, just perturbed at any comment 
I make, and therefore behaving childishly?

Talk about "pots, kettles, and dMax.."  sheesh!

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" 
<editor@p...> wrote:

> What I am talking about is what others have already been discussing in a 
> topic on re-installing Photoshop 7.
> 
> "How to get PhotoShop to run best."
> 
> In case you forget, this list is about Digital B&W Prints, NOT B&W 
> photography per se- that's why a number of people complained about the 
> Tri-X topic: ostensibly, the film (assuming a digital workflow) has very 
> little to do with printing...  However, talking about running  PhotoShop 
> efficiently, the #1 application for printing and preparing files for 
> print, is certainly as on-topic as talking about QTR, ImagePrint, or 
> OPM/IJC... In fact, Paul Roark's curves, one of the prime methods for 
> using quadtone inks,  are applied via PhotoShop...
> 
> 2)   If you are going to complain I suggest the following bit of old 
> advice "he who is without sin may cast the first stone"..

That sounds like me and I am certainly interested in reinstalling photoshop ( I did it 
myself several times) and your splendid windows configuration (big balls, man) so you 
better have them check with me first before showing their disrespect for such worldly 
things without consideration for others who might enjoy it. Now, can I stone you?

> 
> And how much of this thread (inclusions which were not necessary for 
> context) did each of you find necessary to include with your responses?
> 
> Show SOME respect, if you're going to go around demanding it..
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Keith Krebs
> 
> "Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
>  
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
> guys"

Keith,

Actually I apply Paul's curves using Picture Window Pro. I very seldom 
use PS - although I have it and know how to use it - I only use it on a 
limited basis.

I have no problem with the discussion of the technical tools involved. 
However, where I have an issue is the exclusion of the dicussion of such 
things as film, development since that is quite important to get a good 
negative if you want a good scan to even talk about printing. If one is 
valid so is the other. After all it should all be about the final image 
that appears on the paper. The image starts on a piece of film or a CCD 
sensor.

Regards,
Truman

Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:

> Truman Prevatt wrote:
>
> >Hold on guys, if talking about Tri-X the main stay in B&W photography is
> >OT - what the hell is talking about computer problems.
> >
> 1)    I'm not talking about computer problems..
>
> OPM/IJC... In fact, Paul Roark's curves, one of the prime methods for
> using quadtone inks,  are applied via PhotoShop...
>
> 2)   If you are going to complain I suggest the following bit of old
> advice "he who is without sin may cast the first stone"..
>
> And how much of this thread (inclusions which were not necessary for
> context) did each of you find necessary to include with your responses?
>
> Show SOME respect, if you're going to go around demanding it..
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I know I shouldn't jump in here; none of my business...but it's just too good to pass up......
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 

  <snip>

  >  Or are a few people:

  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember


  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????  Per chance that's part of the perception problem???


  >, who 
  >is known for his short temper?


  Well, ya can't dispute that!! :)

  >B)   personally dislike me or my attitude,

  Not "personally" (not many of us "know" you), just from what we read from you...

  > just perturbed at any comment 
  I make,

  Yes....most of them..........

  > and therefore behaving childishly?


  Ah yes, it may be childish behaviour, but you gotta work with what's given to ya!!!  :-)

  John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Truman Prevatt wrote:

>I have no problem with the discussion of the technical tools involved. 
>However, where I have an issue is the exclusion of the dicussion of such 
>things as film, development since that is quite important to get a good 
>negative if you want a good scan to even talk about printing.
>
And I might agree with you there.. But it's not my group..

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

px3n120x wrote:

>That sounds like me and I am certainly interested in reinstalling photoshop ( I did it 
>myself several times) 
>
fair enough...

>and your splendid windows configuration (big balls, man) 
>

huh?

>so you 
>better have them check with me first before showing their disrespect for such worldly 
>things without consideration for others who might enjoy it. Now, can I stone you?
>  
>
you are blithering...

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

John Stacy wrote:

>  >----- Original Message ----- 
>  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
>
>  <snip>
>
>  >  Or are a few people:
>
>  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember
>
>
>  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????  Per chance that's part of the perception problem???
>  
>
High profile because I've already gotten into some catfights here is 
WHAT I meant..

However, feel free to ask some major inkjet retailers or manufacturers 
what impact the lists I caretake have...

>  >B)   personally dislike me or my attitude,
>
>  Not "personally" (not many of us "know" you), just from what we read from you...
>
>  > just perturbed at any comment 
>  I make,
>
>  Yes....most of them..........
>  
>
Then you ARE effectively admitting to attempting to start a "pissing 
match" on this.. Thanks!



 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PhotoShop 7, PhotoShop CS, and Memory - and performance


  John Stacy wrote:

  >  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
  >
  >  <snip>
  >
  >  >  Or are a few people:
  >
  >  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember
  >
  >
  >  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????  Per chance that's part of the perception problem???
  >  
  >
  High profile because I've already gotten into some catfights here is 
  WHAT I meant..

  However, feel free to ask some major inkjet retailers or manufacturers 
  what impact the lists I caretake have...
  LOLOL, now THAT might be interesting to find out what they REALLY think without the threat of blacklisting them...


  >  >B)   personally dislike me or my attitude,
  >
  >  Not "personally" (not many of us "know" you), just from what we read from you...
  >
  >  > just perturbed at any comment 
  >  I make,
  >
  >  Yes....most of them..........
  >  
  >
  Then you ARE effectively admitting to attempting to start a "pissing 
  match" on this.. Thanks!

  There, there, do you feel vindicated now????  But sorry, I only admitted to B), not A)  :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Stacy wrote:

> 
>  John Stacy wrote:
>
>  >  >----- Original Message ----- 
>  >  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
>  >
>  >  <snip>
>  >
>  >  >  Or are a few people:
>  >
>  >  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember
>  >
>  >
>  >  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????  Per chance that's part of the perception problem???
>  >  
>  >
>  High profile because I've already gotten into some catfights here is 
>  WHAT I meant..
>
>  However, feel free to ask some major inkjet retailers or manufacturers 
>  what impact the lists I caretake have...
>
Mr Stacy...

I shall say this ONCE..

"Blacklisting" (one potential form of tortious interference in business 
relations) is a civil tort (i.e. illegal).  Your commentary, in accusing 
me  of  "blacklisting"  (an illegal act) or even accusing me of 
threatening "blacklisting" (which would be extortion or blackmail), 
particularly in an onlist forum of some 4000 members,  is arguably 
actionable by me as both libel, slander, and, in fact, potentially as 
tortious interference in business relationships itself...

1)    It therefore,  at the very least, violates YAHOO's TOS (terms of 
service).

2)    I am not averse to taking legal action via my attorney both to 
protect my rights and business reputation..  Continue such behavior at 
your own risk..

Happy Holidays to you!

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It was only a matter of time.
 
Tom  Baker

"Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
John Stacy wrote:

> 
>  John Stacy wrote:
>
>  >  >----- Original Message ----- 
>  >  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
>  >
>  >  <snip>
>  >
>  >  >  Or are a few people:
>  >
>  >  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember
>  >
>  >
>  >  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????  Per chance that's part of the perception problem???
>  >  
>  >
>  High profile because I've already gotten into some catfights here is 
>  WHAT I meant..
>
>  However, feel free to ask some major inkjet retailers or manufacturers 
>  what impact the lists I caretake have...
>
Mr Stacy...

I shall say this ONCE..

"Blacklisting" (one potential form of tortious interference in business 
relations) is a civil tort (i.e. illegal).  Your commentary, in accusing 
me  of  "blacklisting"  (an illegal act) or even accusing me of 
threatening "blacklisting" (which would be extortion or blackmail), 
particularly in an onlist forum of some 4000 members,  is arguably 
actionable by me as both libel, slander, and, in fact, potentially as 
tortious interference in business relationships itself...

1)    It therefore,  at the very least, violates YAHOO's TOS (terms of 
service).

2)    I am not averse to taking legal action via my attorney both to 
protect my rights and business reputation..  Continue such behavior at 
your own risk..

Happy Holidays to you!


Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/

"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" 
<editor@p...> wrote:
> John Stacy wrote:
> 
> > 
> >  John Stacy wrote:
> >
> >  >  >----- Original Message ----- 
> >  >  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
> >  >
> >  >  <snip>
> >  >
> >  >  >  Or are a few people:
> >  >
> >  >  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????  Per chance 
that's part of the perception problem???
> >  >  
> >  >
> >  High profile because I've already gotten into some catfights here is 
> >  WHAT I meant..
> >
> >  However, feel free to ask some major inkjet retailers or manufacturers 
> >  what impact the lists I caretake have...
> >
> Mr Stacy...
> 
> I shall say this ONCE..
> 
> "Blacklisting" (one potential form of tortious interference in business 
> relations) is a civil tort (i.e. illegal).  Your commentary, in accusing 
> me  of  "blacklisting"  (an illegal act) or even accusing me of 
> threatening "blacklisting" (which would be extortion or blackmail), 
> particularly in an onlist forum of some 4000 members,  is arguably 
> actionable by me as both libel, slander, and, in fact, potentially as 
> tortious interference in business relationships itself...

Couldn't find "blacklisting" in the quote above (we have a situation) but that fits with 
the context. Time for refreshments...

Andu

> Happy Holidays to you!
> 
>  
> Keith Krebs

I began my adventure in digital b/w printing almost two years ago when I
purchased an Epson 1280 and Jon Cone's Piezography BW system.  My
initial efforts were mediocre at best.  But over time I learned the
nuances of Piezography, gradually improved my Photoshop skills, and
began to generate some decent prints.  Several months into my adventure
I joined this group.  During the past few months of being on this list I
have learned a great deal.  I now produce prints that are better than
anything I was ever able to do in over twenty years of "wet darkroom"
experience.  This is at least partly due to the knowledge I have gained
on this list.  Contributors to this group such as Martin Wesley, Paul
Roark, Clayton Jones, Roy Harrington and others too numerous to mention
are greatly appreciated by this member, and I am quite sure by most
others as well.  Thanks guys.
 
However, the argumentative, juvenile, idiotic flame wars seem to be an
increasing part of this list.  (The attached post below could be Exhibit
A.)  Whenever one participates in any Internet-based forum, one expects
to get a certain amount of this.  And like everyone else, my time has a
certain value.  So, I have to make a value judgment for myself if
continued participation is worth the time.  Increasingly, I find that I
have to go through about fifty posts of argument, flame wars and pissing
contests (many of which are way off the topic of digital b/w printing)
before I come to a single post which contains information of value to
me.  For me, the threshold of wading through the chaff to get to the
wheat has been crossed.  It's no longer worth the effort and time.
 
So, once again, thanks to all those who have made, and continue to make
valuable contributions to this forum.
 
As for all of you idiots who behave like twelve-year-olds and turn what
could be a valuable learning experience for others into your own
personal little combat arena, well, you need to grow up and get a life.
I suspect many share my views.
 
Cordially,
Jeff (about-to-be-unsubscribed) Moore

-----Original Message-----
From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:34 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com;
antonisphoto@...; Martin Wesley; stacyj@...
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PhotoShop 7, PhotoShop CS, and Memory - and
performance
 
John Stacy wrote:

> 
>  John Stacy wrote:
>
>  >  >----- Original Message ----- 
>  >  >From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service 
>  >
>  >  <snip>
>  >
>  >  >  Or are a few people:
>  >
>  >  >A)trying to start a pissing match with a high-profile listmember
>  >
>  >
>  >  My, my....are we "high profile" now????  By who's definition????
Per chance that's part of the perception problem???
>  >  
>  >
>  High profile because I've already gotten into some catfights here is 
>  WHAT I meant..
>
>  However, feel free to ask some major inkjet retailers or
manufacturers 
>  what impact the lists I caretake have...
>
Mr Stacy...

I shall say this ONCE..

"Blacklisting" (one potential form of tortious interference in business 
relations) is a civil tort (i.e. illegal).  Your commentary, in accusing

me  of  "blacklisting"  (an illegal act) or even accusing me of 
threatening "blacklisting" (which would be extortion or blackmail), 
particularly in an onlist forum of some 4000 members,  is arguably 
actionable by me as both libel, slander, and, in fact, potentially as 
tortious interference in business relationships itself...

1)    It therefore,  at the very least, violates YAHOO's TOS (terms of 
service).

2)    I am not averse to taking legal action via my attorney both to 
protect my rights and business reputation..  Continue such behavior at 
your own risk..

Happy Holidays to you!


Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer

User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/

"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together

guys"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]