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UT-2 Preview

UT-2 Preview

2003-12-01 by Paul Roark

I think I have the final formula for this inkset, but I'll continue to test
all week.

 

On EEM, grayscale files print 0.02 units warm with the driver on the default
"Color Controls," "Automatic," and the paper setting at HWM.  

 

With the driver Color Controls on Vivid, and sliders set at Cyan +7, Magenta
-5, the print is neutral ("selenium" tone, with the magenta elevated 0.01).
The Cyan ink is very cool.  This position was chosen for the cool ink so
that the cyan colored marker by the slider would help people remember which
ink is cold.  The magenta and light magenta positions contain raw carbon
inks.  

 

With the sliders set to Y +25, M +10, C -15, the print is medium warm (Y - C
= 0.05).  The Yellow position ink is very warm.  The yellow marker by that
slider should help people remember this position.  

 

Here's an extra trick that gives some nice control.  Because the Yellow
position (warm ink) is used sparingly in the midtones by the Epson driver
and then relatively more heavily in the shadows, one can control the
relative shadow tone with the Yellow slider.  So, when just the C & M
sliders are used to get a neutral print, as above, the shadows are
relatively neutral.  When the Y slider is pulled down to, for example, -15
(with the C cool inks set to +8) the shadows turn cooler than the neutral
midtone.  This is actually more typical of the true selenium-toned silver
prints.

 

So, the sliders can not only control the overall tone, within the cool to
medium-warm range, but they can also alter the shadow tones relative to the
midtones.

 

With RGB curves, the full range of sepia (0.25 warm) to carbon only (.11
warm) and the other tones are also available.  Power users may still prefer
the full control that these curves give, but there is now substantial
control just with the much more accessible sliders.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] UT-2 Preview

2003-12-01 by Mike Sommers

wow.

so, what's your ballpark estimate on when the UT-2 inkset will be 
available for use with the 1280?

I was about to purchase the UT-1 set (my 1280 arrived this morning), but 
will hold off if it's only going to be a couple weeks.

I was hoping to print out some large B&W's for xmas gifts this year.

Thanks!

Mike

OT Cheap software

2003-12-04 by Ed Mathews

I am in no way endorsing this, as I know nothing about this company
(does anybody here know of them?).  This company claims to be selling
software extremely cheap, and is selling Photoshop 7 for $60.00.  I've
already got that, but I was thinking of upgrading an old machine with
XP.  Anybody heard of them?

http://oem-discounts.biz/

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-04 by flyfishingusa2002

Ed, 
I took a look at the site and it looks a bit fishy to me, I don't 
think that there is any such thing as a OEM version of Photoshop. If 
there is I'm sure someone will correct me. They state that you get a 
unique registration code with the product, if this is true then I 
would recommend purchasing 7 and the CS upgrade from Adobe. For 
little more than $200 you will get CS which, in my opinion, is well 
worth the money for the file browser and the shadow control alone. 
If you already have a earlier version of PS don't bother with 
version 7 but go straight to CS, you will be glad that you did. When 
adobe designed CS they did it very mcuh with the digital darkroom in 
mind.

Sierra Gold

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
<ed@l...> wrote:
> I am in no way endorsing this, as I know nothing about this company
> (does anybody here know of them?).  This company claims to be 
selling
> software extremely cheap, and is selling Photoshop 7 for $60.00.  
I've
> already got that, but I was thinking of upgrading an old machine 
with
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> XP.  Anybody heard of them?
> 
> http://oem-discounts.biz/
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-04 by Daniel Staver

> I took a look at the site and it looks a bit fishy to me, I don't 
> think that there is any such thing as a OEM version of Photoshop. If 
> there is I'm sure someone will correct me.

Even if there was such a thing OEM licenses are still illegal to sell
outside of their intended hardware bundles, but most likely this is just
plain piracy.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-04 by sceptre12345

I don't 
> > think that there is any such thing as a OEM version of 
Photoshop. ..snip.., but most likely this is just
> plain piracy.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver

Or it's just a way to get your credit card information!
Beware.
Cheers,
Andre

Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-05 by Bob Michaels

Remember that old saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it
probably isn't"? 

Last month I read a story about a guy who had scammed people for
almost a million dollars on E-Bay by selling $4,000 plasma TV's for
$1,950 but not delivering. When asked how to avoid people such as
himself, he just said "remember, it if sounds too good to be true, it
probably isn't". BTW, he wouldn't give his name as he's still out
scamming folks. Maybe he's selling bootleg copies of Photoshop this
month. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews"
<ed@l...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I am in no way endorsing this, as I know nothing about this company
> (does anybody here know of them?).  This company claims to be selling
> software extremely cheap, and is selling Photoshop 7 for $60.00.  I've
> already got that, but I was thinking of upgrading an old machine with
> XP.  Anybody heard of them?
> 
> http://oem-discounts.biz/
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-05 by Alan Zinn

At 06:42 PM 12/4/03 +0000, you wrote:
>Ed,
>I took a look at the site and it looks a bit fishy to me, I don't
>think that there is any such thing as a OEM version of Photoshop. If
>there is I'm sure someone will correct me. They state that you get a
>unique registration code with the product, if this is true then I
>would recommend purchasing 7 and the CS upgrade from Adobe. For
>little more than $200 you will get CS which, in my opinion, is well
>worth the money for the file browser and the shadow control alone.
>If you already have a earlier version of PS don't bother with
>version 7 but go straight to CS, you will be glad that you did. When
>adobe designed CS they did it very mcuh with the digital darkroom in
>mind.
>
>Sierra Gold
>
>-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews"
><ed@l...> wrote:
> > I am in no way endorsing this, as I know nothing about this company
> > (does anybody here know of them?).  This company claims to be
>selling
> > software extremely cheap, and is selling Photoshop 7 for $60.00.
>I've
> > already got that, but I was thinking of upgrading an old machine
>with
> > XP.  Anybody heard of them?
> >
> > http://oem-discounts.biz/
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ed
> > http://lightandsilver.com

If it's seems too good to be true... :-)  There was something on the news 
RE web scams like this.

AZ
Build a Lookaround!
The Lookaround Book, 2nd ed.
NOW SHIPPING
http://www.panoramacamera.us

Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-05 by Garcia, William

> I've already got that, but I was thinking of upgrading an old 
> machine with
> > XP.  Anybody heard of them?

As far as a scam goes, here's all you need to know from the site's FAQ --  notorious locale for web and Ebay scams where money is collected and you never hear from them again.

"Where does this software comes from ?"

"The software is shipped from Eastern Europe." 

		Will

Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-05 by sceptre12345

> 
> "Where does this software comes from ?"
> 
> "The software is shipped from Eastern Europe." 
> 
> 		Will

On that particular site, credit card information are being asked on a 
non secure page. That's how scams work!
Cheers,
Andre

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-05 by Keith Hollister

If you qualify for educational pricing (student, faculty or staff), 
Adobe offers REALLY steep discounts. If I recall correctly, the entire 
Premium Creative Suite is $350 and PS CS alone is $250.

RE: [Digital BW] Re: OT Cheap software

2003-12-06 by Kevin Kern

Wow they sure have some "great" deals.....


>From: "flyfishingusa2002" <tflyfish@...>
>Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OT Cheap software
>Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:42:49 -0000
>

_________________________________________________________________
Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. 
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-08 by johngeyles

> On EEM, grayscale files print 0.02 units warm with the driver on the
default
> "Color Controls," "Automatic," and the paper setting at HWM.  
> 
>  
> 
> With the driver Color Controls on Vivid...

Paul,

I've been away for awhile and trying to come up to speed on this
UT-2 "easy BW" stuff.

All this sounds like hacks for getting the Epson driver to do
whatever kinda tonality you're going for.

For Mac users, would I be correct that I'm better off using QTR or
IJC instead of the Epson driver ?

Thanks !

John

RE: [Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-08 by Paul Roark

John,

>> On EEM, grayscale files print 0.02 units warm with the 
>>driver on the default "Color Controls," "Automatic," 
>>and the paper setting at HWM.  
>> ...

>... trying to come up to speed on this UT-2 "easy BW" stuff.

The "UT-2" is the product of three projects: make an inkset that has the
full sepia to cool range, prints well from a grayscale file with "no
workflow", and handles the RC papers better.  It turned out I could do all
this with one inkset.  It is for the 1280 class printers only now, but is
aimed at the 4000.  

>All this sounds like hacks for getting the Epson driver to do
>whatever kinda tonality you're going for.

Yes, one could say that.   It's still a "quad" or dedicated B&W inkset.  As
such, it is still limited in the tones it can reach with any one set of
toners.  

However, with the UT-2 inkset the sepia toner is very simple -- 8% yellow,
8% magenta, and 84% UT-C light magenta.  As such, I think people will be
able to easily mix their own custom tones -- not only different versions of
sepia but also totally new and different custom tints.  Although I have a
"detailed" curve for sepia, it's amazing how well this inkset does with
curves that are little more than single points on the 50% spot that pull the
toner down and carbon gray up (with the cold cyan all but turned off).
Those who used to be darkroom experimenters are going to have a lot of fun
with this ability.

>For Mac users, would I be correct that I'm better off using QTR or
>IJC instead of the Epson driver ?

I don't know.  It'll be interesting to see some comparisons.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
___________________________________

[Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-09 by awahlster

Paul, WHEN the wife keeps asking what I want for Christmas should I 
tell her a 1280 to get ready for this inkset. Or is it months away?


Mark W.
> ___________________________________

Re: [Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-09 by Steve Kale

OK I am now getting confused.  I have recently been considering a CFS from
MIS with the UltraTone inks for use with QTR.  According to the MIS CFS page
for the 2200:

<Bowhaus (Mac OS9) or Quadtone Rip (Mac OSX or Linux PC) is required for
UltraTone systems. The inks will not work with Roark workflows or Epson
driver. Carts contain, PK, K, UT-C, UT-Lc, UT-M, UT-S, UT-Y inks. PK is
photo black, K is Eboni black, C is dark gray, Lc is medium gray, M is cool
toner, S is sepia toner, Y is light gray. Profiles from full sepia to cool
and anywhere in between can be made with this inkset and either of these
print drivers. Both allow shutting off of one black or the other, so both
matte and glossy prints can be made with same inkset.>

Yet according to their inks page:

<Epson introduced their new UltraChrome color inks. We quickly followed with
our version or equivalent of these new inks. This gave us two new black
inks, a photo black and a matte black. So, with a little help(lots of help)
from Paul Roark, we made a B&W inkset that was capable of producing matte or
glossy prints with variable tones. In the process we upgraded the Epson
equivalent black to increase fade resistance out beyond 600 years. This
black we now call EBONI BLACK. It is the best black we have ever made. These
new inks are called MIS Ultra-Tone inks. They are similar to the VM inks
above, but they have greater stability and fade resistance. They use the
same Roark workflow that the VM inks use, unless otherwise stated on the
workflow page.>

Sorry to post this here but MIS has yet to reply to my email asking them
some basic questions about this and the use of the CFS.  If I am happy to
continue using QTR is there any point waiting for UT-2?

The other questions I had for MIS were in relation to a purchase of a CFS
with MIS 2200 color ink that is equivalent to the Epson Ultrachrome ink that
comes with a new 2200 printer:

I notice that the pre-filled ultra-chrome CFS seems to only be available
with the "universal black".  Is it not possible to order it with the matt
black already loaded?  I mostly use matt black/matt media.  A preloaded
system has enormous appeal because I imagine the process of loading a CFS
initially is quite finicky.

Presumably, if the matt black ink is loaded and I need to switch to Photo
Black for a glossy paper print I could simply eject the matt black CFS
cartridge and put in an OEM (non CFS) cartridge for the print in question,
leaving the other CFS cartridges in place (ie in the same manner that one
would simply swap the Epson MK and PK cartridges)?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:12:26 -0800
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

John,

>> On EEM, grayscale files print 0.02 units warm with the
>>driver on the default "Color Controls," "Automatic,"
>>and the paper setting at HWM.
>> ...

>... trying to come up to speed on this UT-2 "easy BW" stuff.

The "UT-2" is the product of three projects: make an inkset that has the
full sepia to cool range, prints well from a grayscale file with "no
workflow", and handles the RC papers better.  It turned out I could do all
this with one inkset.  It is for the 1280 class printers only now, but is
aimed at the 4000. 

>All this sounds like hacks for getting the Epson driver to do
>whatever kinda tonality you're going for.

Yes, one could say that.   It's still a "quad" or dedicated B&W inkset.  As
such, it is still limited in the tones it can reach with any one set of
toners.  

However, with the UT-2 inkset the sepia toner is very simple -- 8% yellow,
8% magenta, and 84% UT-C light magenta.  As such, I think people will be
able to easily mix their own custom tones -- not only different versions of
sepia but also totally new and different custom tints.  Although I have a
"detailed" curve for sepia, it's amazing how well this inkset does with
curves that are little more than single points on the 50% spot that pull the
toner down and carbon gray up (with the cold cyan all but turned off).
Those who used to be darkroom experimenters are going to have a lot of fun
with this ability.

>For Mac users, would I be correct that I'm better off using QTR or
>IJC instead of the Epson driver ?

I don't know.  It'll be interesting to see some comparisons.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
___________________________________


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-09 by Paul Roark

Steve,

>OK I am now getting confused.  I have recently been considering a CFS from
>MIS with the UltraTone inks for use with QTR.  
>According to the MIS CFS page for the 2200:

><Bowhaus (Mac OS9) or Quadtone Rip (Mac OSX or Linux PC) is required for
>UltraTone systems. The inks will not work with Roark workflows or Epson
>driver. ...

I was originally hopeful the Bowhaus system would be a good answer for a
full, dual toner, dual black system.  So, I was waiting for it.  However, it
crashed for PC, the 4000 with its dual blacks was introduced, and I found I
could control a dual toner system with the Epson driver.  So, I developed
the UT-2 inkset (after MIS had posted this position) with dual toners for
the 1280.  My ultimate goal for the UT-2 inkset is the 4000 because I want
that dual black capability and 16x20.

>Yet according to their [MIS] inks page:

><..., with a little help (lots of help) from Paul Roark, 
>we made a B&W inkset that was capable of producing matte or
>glossy prints with variable tones. ...

But, for the 2 types of paper, one most switch black inks, just like the
UltraChrome inkset.  MIS has a universal black, but it has dye in it, and I
don't use dye inks.

>...If I am happy to continue using QTR is there any point waiting for UT-2?

Probably not. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-09 by Paul Roark

Mark,

>Paul, WHEN the wife keeps asking what I want for Christmas should I 
>tell her a 1280 to get ready for this inkset. Or is it months away?

I think I've convinced MIS to move UT-2 to the front burner.  They take off
on Dec. 19 for a vacation, so getting everything done by then will be an
effort.  

I am giving a short talk to the S.B. Genealogy Society 12/20, where I intend
to recommend the UT-2 inkset for those who want to be able to print B&W
12x12 paper (a standard for "scrapbooking").  So, I sure hope MIS has
something to show on its web site.  They know my schedule and really want to
participate in the scrapbook market.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-09 by awahlster

Excellent Paul I just need to remember patients is a vurtue and I 
really need to have at least one of those I'm told LOL

Mark W.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> >Paul, WHEN the wife keeps asking what I want for Christmas should 
I 
> >tell her a 1280 to get ready for this inkset. Or is it months away?
> 
> I think I've convinced MIS to move UT-2 to the front burner.  They 
take off
> on Dec. 19 for a vacation, so getting everything done by then will 
be an
> effort.  
> 
> I am giving a short talk to the S.B. Genealogy Society 12/20, where 
I intend
> to recommend the UT-2 inkset for those who want to be able to print 
B&W
> 12x12 paper (a standard for "scrapbooking").  So, I sure hope MIS 
has
> something to show on its web site.  They know my schedule and 
really want to
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> participate in the scrapbook market.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-09 by islandbuck2

Will UT-2 be replacing the current UT ink sets?.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I think I have the final formula for this inkset, but I'll continue 
to test
> all week.
> 
>  
> 
> On EEM, grayscale files print 0.02 units warm with the driver on 
the default
> "Color Controls," "Automatic," and the paper setting at HWM.  
> 
>  
> 
> With the driver Color Controls on Vivid, and sliders set at Cyan 
+7, Magenta
> -5, the print is neutral ("selenium" tone, with the magenta 
elevated 0.01).
> The Cyan ink is very cool.  This position was chosen for the cool 
ink so
> that the cyan colored marker by the slider would help people 
remember which
> ink is cold.  The magenta and light magenta positions contain raw 
carbon
> inks.  
> 
>  
> 
> With the sliders set to Y +25, M +10, C -15, the print is medium 
warm (Y - C
> = 0.05).  The Yellow position ink is very warm.  The yellow marker 
by that
> slider should help people remember this position.  
> 
>  
> 
> Here's an extra trick that gives some nice control.  Because the 
Yellow
> position (warm ink) is used sparingly in the midtones by the Epson 
driver
> and then relatively more heavily in the shadows, one can control the
> relative shadow tone with the Yellow slider.  So, when just the C & 
M
> sliders are used to get a neutral print, as above, the shadows are
> relatively neutral.  When the Y slider is pulled down to, for 
example, -15
> (with the C cool inks set to +8) the shadows turn cooler than the 
neutral
> midtone.  This is actually more typical of the true selenium-toned 
silver
> prints.
> 
>  
> 
> So, the sliders can not only control the overall tone, within the 
cool to
> medium-warm range, but they can also alter the shadow tones 
relative to the
> midtones.
> 
>  
> 
> With RGB curves, the full range of sepia (0.25 warm) to carbon only 
(.11
> warm) and the other tones are also available.  Power users may 
still prefer
> the full control that these curves give, but there is now 
substantial
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> control just with the much more accessible sliders.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: UT-2 Preview

2003-12-10 by Paul Roark

>Will UT-2 be replacing the current UT ink sets?

No.  It's just for the 1280-class printers now.  The 2200 and 4000 will be
next.

The older printers need the UT inkset's lightest gray.  The 1280 doesn't.
Also, people who are happy with the UT inkset and don't want sepia might
want to just stay where they are.

A big part of the UT-2 inkset is ease of use for novices and sepia.

I'll put scans of UT-2 inkset prints on my web page ASAP.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
________________________ 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I think I have the final formula for this inkset, but I'll continue 
to test
> all week.
> 
>  
> 
> On EEM, grayscale files print 0.02 units warm with the driver on 
the default
> "Color Controls," "Automatic," and the paper setting at HWM.  
> 
>  
> 
> With the driver Color Controls on Vivid, and sliders set at Cyan 
+7, Magenta
> -5, the print is neutral ("selenium" tone, with the magenta 
elevated 0.01).
> The Cyan ink is very cool.  This position was chosen for the cool 
ink so
> that the cyan colored marker by the slider would help people 
remember which
> ink is cold.  The magenta and light magenta positions contain raw 
carbon
> inks.  
> 
>  
> 
> With the sliders set to Y +25, M +10, C -15, the print is medium 
warm (Y - C
> = 0.05).  The Yellow position ink is very warm.  The yellow marker 
by that
> slider should help people remember this position.  
> 
>  
> 
> Here's an extra trick that gives some nice control.  Because the 
Yellow
> position (warm ink) is used sparingly in the midtones by the Epson 
driver
> and then relatively more heavily in the shadows, one can control the
> relative shadow tone with the Yellow slider.  So, when just the C & 
M
> sliders are used to get a neutral print, as above, the shadows are
> relatively neutral.  When the Y slider is pulled down to, for 
example, -15
> (with the C cool inks set to +8) the shadows turn cooler than the 
neutral
> midtone.  This is actually more typical of the true selenium-toned 
silver
> prints.
> 
>  
> 
> So, the sliders can not only control the overall tone, within the 
cool to
> medium-warm range, but they can also alter the shadow tones 
relative to the
> midtones.
> 
>  
> 
> With RGB curves, the full range of sepia (0.25 warm) to carbon only 
(.11
> warm) and the other tones are also available.  Power users may 
still prefer
> the full control that these curves give, but there is now 
substantial
> control just with the much more accessible sliders.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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