Digital BW, The Print

I've been following the discussions in this format for awhile now, and
appreciate all the good advice I've read.

I was hoping that it would become clear to me eventually which B&W digital
printing system was "best" for my purposes... alas, it has not.

I was about to pull the trigger and buy the Septone advanced kit.  I already
own a Epson 2200 printer (which delivers outstanding color, but as you all
know.. so-so B&W).  I am shooting only B&W these days and want to maximize
my printing to at least that which I was once able to do in a traditional
darkroom. Archival potential is important to me.  Very large paper size is
not (11X14 is big enough).  I am somewhat of a computer luddite and don't
want (or know how) to mess with creating profiles and too much
experimentation. I want to plug and play to the greatest extent possible.  I
own Photoshop 7, a trinitron monitor, and a Nikon film scanner.

Now I read that there are still problems with the Septone system and am
rethinking my strategy. I am surprised that there is little in the way of
user comments available for review.  I take that as a sign that the Septone
system might not be widly accepted and used.  This might make it an orphaned
system before too long (with difficulty getting inks and support).

Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy a new 1280 (or other) printer
and dedicate it to B&W and keep the 2200 for the (rare) sale of a color
print.

If you had the opportunity to start fresh, with the options available today,
what would you buy?  A 1280 printer with Peziography profiles and inks?
Septone? what?

thanks much
cheers
Jack McLain
Tucson, AZ
http://jackmclain-photography.dotcommunity.net

for about the price of the septione system, if you are on a PC? why not get
the Imageprint RIP for printing from your 2200?

Although it can be a bit fiddly to install, you can download a demo version
to see how it work for you

tim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack McLain [mailto:jmclainaz@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:55 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Indecision and Confusion: Which B&W system to
> invest in!
>
>
> I've been following the discussions in this format for awhile now, and
> appreciate all the good advice I've read.
>
> I was hoping that it would become clear to me eventually which B&W digital
> printing system was "best" for my purposes... alas, it has not.
>
> I was about to pull the trigger and buy the Septone advanced kit.
>  I already
> own a Epson 2200 printer (which delivers outstanding color, but as you all
> know.. so-so B&W).  I am shooting only B&W these days and want to maximize
> my printing to at least that which I was once able to do in a traditional
> darkroom. Archival potential is important to me.  Very large paper size is
> not (11X14 is big enough).  I am somewhat of a computer luddite and don't
> want (or know how) to mess with creating profiles and too much
> experimentation. I want to plug and play to the greatest extent
> possible.  I
> own Photoshop 7, a trinitron monitor, and a Nikon film scanner.
>
> Now I read that there are still problems with the Septone system and am
> rethinking my strategy. I am surprised that there is little in the way of
> user comments available for review.  I take that as a sign that
> the Septone
> system might not be widly accepted and used.  This might make it
> an orphaned
> system before too long (with difficulty getting inks and support).
>
> Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy a new 1280 (or
> other) printer
> and dedicate it to B&W and keep the 2200 for the (rare) sale of a color
> print.
>
> If you had the opportunity to start fresh, with the options
> available today,
> what would you buy?  A 1280 printer with Peziography profiles and inks?
> Septone? what?
>
> thanks much
> cheers
> Jack McLain
> Tucson, AZ
> http://jackmclain-photography.dotcommunity.net
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
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> LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR
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>

Jack  -
 
If you're going to spend more money, you might consider Imageprint for your 2200.  The b&w quality out of this combination is as good as the alternative b&w inksets.  You can see on Wilhelm's site the expect longevity.  If that's not good enough, then you pretty much have to go with one of the other inksets.  But, the Ultrachrome ink set is very good.  This is not an image quality issue.  However, while the Imageprint/Ultrachrome combination has a built in 'toner' capability while still using gray scale and b&w profiles, some of the alternative inks can produce different tones.  The most notable of which is the pure carbon inks.  If those tones are important, then the Imageprint solution might not work.  But, if you;re looking for tones from warm to cool around neutral, Imageprint is very good.  Also, there is a new version coming out in January or so.  I don't know the details, but purchasing now, as I understand it, will qualify you for a no cost upgrade.
 
I sound a bit like an add for Imageprint, but the results are extremely good in both b&w and color.  And, virtually no hassle, with identical results from print to print, even across ink cartrage changes.
 
Tom Baker

Jack McLain <jmclainaz@...> wrote:
I've been following the discussions in this format for awhile now, and
appreciate all the good advice I've read.

I was hoping that it would become clear to me eventually which B&W digital
printing system was "best" for my purposes... alas, it has not.

I was about to pull the trigger and buy the Septone advanced kit.  I already
own a Epson 2200 printer (which delivers outstanding color, but as you all
know.. so-so B&W).  I am shooting only B&W these days and want to maximize
my printing to at least that which I was once able to do in a traditional
darkroom. Archival potential is important to me.  Very large paper size is
not (11X14 is big enough).  I am somewhat of a computer luddite and don't
want (or know how) to mess with creating profiles and too much
experimentation. I want to plug and play to the greatest extent possible.  I
own Photoshop 7, a trinitron monitor, and a Nikon film scanner.

Now I read that there are still problems with the Septone system and am
rethinking my strategy. I am surprised that there is little in the way of
user comments available for review.  I take that as a sign that the Septone
system might not be widly accepted and used.  This might make it an orphaned
system before too long (with difficulty getting inks and support).

Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy a new 1280 (or other) printer
and dedicate it to B&W and keep the 2200 for the (rare) sale of a color
print.

If you had the opportunity to start fresh, with the options available today,
what would you buy?  A 1280 printer with Peziography profiles and inks?
Septone? what?

thanks much
cheers
Jack McLain
Tucson, AZ
http://jackmclain-photography.dotcommunity.net


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mac or PC?

From: "Jack McLain" <jmclainaz@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:54:59 -0700
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Indecision and Confusion: Which B&W system to invest
in!

I've been following the discussions in this format for awhile now, and
appreciate all the good advice I've read.

I was hoping that it would become clear to me eventually which B&W digital
printing system was "best" for my purposes... alas, it has not.

I was about to pull the trigger and buy the Septone advanced kit.  I already
own a Epson 2200 printer (which delivers outstanding color, but as you all
know.. so-so B&W).  I am shooting only B&W these days and want to maximize
my printing to at least that which I was once able to do in a traditional
darkroom. Archival potential is important to me.  Very large paper size is
not (11X14 is big enough).  I am somewhat of a computer luddite and don't
want (or know how) to mess with creating profiles and too much
experimentation. I want to plug and play to the greatest extent possible.  I
own Photoshop 7, a trinitron monitor, and a Nikon film scanner.

Now I read that there are still problems with the Septone system and am
rethinking my strategy. I am surprised that there is little in the way of
user comments available for review.  I take that as a sign that the Septone
system might not be widly accepted and used.  This might make it an orphaned
system before too long (with difficulty getting inks and support).

Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy a new 1280 (or other) printer
and dedicate it to B&W and keep the 2200 for the (rare) sale of a color
print.

If you had the opportunity to start fresh, with the options available today,
what would you buy?  A 1280 printer with Peziography profiles and inks?
Septone? what?

thanks much
cheers
Jack McLain
Tucson, AZ
http://jackmclain-photography.dotcommunity.net





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would second this because the cost is only a little more than 
getting a second printer up and running and the lack of hassle is 
worth more than the extra money.  You can download a demo and give it 
a try and see if it is good enough for you.  Most the other RIPS have 
free demos available as well so you might find a cheaper 
alternative.  ...as far as I'm concerned Epson owes everyone who 
bought a 2200 a free RIP since the printer is advertised as printing 
quality b&w out of the box, but at least with Imageprint it is fully 
capable of giving you prints that you are sure to love.

mark

...
> If you're going to spend more money, you might consider Imageprint 
for your 2200.  The b&w quality out of this combination is as good as 
the alternative b&w inksets.  You can see on Wilhelm's site the 
expect longevity. 
...

> I would second this because the cost is only a little more than
> getting a second printer up and running and the lack of hassle is
> worth more than the extra money.  You can download a demo and give it
> a try and see if it is good enough for you.  Most the other RIPS have
> free demos available as well so you might find a cheaper
> alternative.  ...as far as I'm concerned Epson owes everyone who
> bought a 2200 a free RIP since the printer is advertised as printing
> quality b&w out of the box, but at least with Imageprint it is fully
> capable of giving you prints that you are sure to love.

I think you can still get it for $100 off if you order a bunch of paper at
the same time as well - so order the Imageprint and say $100 worth of Photo
Rag

tim

I would add though that if using a Mac, it is well worth investing a little
time and setting up QTR first.  The RIP, thanks to Roy¹s generosity, costs
$0 and produces fantastic B&W prints with OEM inks let alone, say, MIS UTs.
Imageprint is severely mis-priced, even at $395 + tax (outside of the US it
is simply insulting), particularly when compared to the cost of the printer,
PS or even a low-end Mac to run QTR!  I agree that if you have no choice as
a PC user it gets the job done but it is unique in its ability to extract a
heavy premium for doing so.

From: Tim Atherton <timatherton@theedge.ca>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:55:10 -0700
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Indecision and Confusion: Which B&W system to
invest in!


> I would second this because the cost is only a little more than
> getting a second printer up and running and the lack of hassle is
> worth more than the extra money.  You can download a demo and give it
> a try and see if it is good enough for you.  Most the other RIPS have
> free demos available as well so you might find a cheaper
> alternative.  ...as far as I'm concerned Epson owes everyone who
> bought a 2200 a free RIP since the printer is advertised as printing
> quality b&w out of the box, but at least with Imageprint it is fully
> capable of giving you prints that you are sure to love.

I think you can still get it for $100 off if you order a bunch of paper at
the same time as well - so order the Imageprint and say $100 worth of Photo
Rag

tim





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I did what you are considering and bought a 1280 and Ultratone carts 
to sit along side my 2200. My only regret is wasting so much time 
trying to get decent b&w from the 2200.

The Ultrratones are wonderful. Roark's curves are very easy to use. 
Look for a 1280 on ebay. I found one as a "buy it now" for $35! Get 
the prefilled carts to try out the Ultratones. Order bulk bottles to 
refill if you like the results.