Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "soli004" <soren.lindqvist@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:27 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Studioprint and UT


Ingo,

Yes I have Epson 7500 with StudioPrint and UT inks. I'm sorry to
tell, they do not support Hextone setup and I have asked
techsupport
two times if this will be a future development. Unfortunately
they
have not answered this question. I have tried different kind of
ways
to get around it but with no success for a good setup. A big
problem
is when using settings as a colorprinter it only uses the black
for
greyscale images even if I change it to RGB. I can not recommend
StudioPrint for UT inks, it does only support Quadtone which
means
that you can only choose one type of tone for the printer. I have
a
software (expensive) that I cant use :(

Regards
Soren

Soren,

Will Studioprint accept CMYK files and print them ? Through a
separate workflow that has linearisation, black generation and
curves ?

If so you could do something like I've done with the Wasatch
SoftRip. It isn't ideal but it works.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst Dinkla" <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
...
> Will Studioprint accept CMYK files and print them ? Through a
> separate workflow that has linearisation, black generation and
> curves ?

Yes. It can be configured any number of ways. Though the mentioned inks aren't directly supported in an easy way, there are certainly many aproaches that couold work.
Like any other RIP with advanced controls, one would be hard pressed to call any particular ink "unsupported". However a lot of familiarity with the software is required and some ceative thinking as well.
Tyler

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <tyler@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Studioprint and UT


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst
Dinkla" <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
...
> Will Studioprint accept CMYK files and print them ? Through a
> separate workflow that has linearisation, black generation and
> curves ?

Yes. It can be configured any number of ways. Though the
mentioned inks aren't directly supported in an easy way, there
are certainly many aproaches that couold work.
Like any other RIP with advanced controls, one would be hard
pressed to call any particular ink "unsupported". However a lot
of familiarity with the software is required and some ceative
thinking as well.
Tyler


Tyler,

I don't have to tell you what the possibilities are :-) On the
other hand I got the inpression that you are no longer seeking
the more mindbending workflows.
Anyway there's small applicattion in the archive that will
convert a greyscale file into a CMYK file (just copies the
greyscales to 4 channels and nothing else, so no black generation
etc). In the Wasatch SoftRip I have set the black generation from
0 to 100 %  and control the Ultratone VM only with the curves on
top of the linearisation of the CMYK heads. Where Dan, you and
others did most of that in PS and then loaded the CMYK file in
PressReady etc I have done the curve separations at the end of
the process. There's still a compromise that I can't use the
three CMY channels together as that triggers the black generation
(which is disturbing the straight approach of the curves) so I
have to use CcYK or MmCcK and bring the 4th curve to zero. That
is a limitation but it works on a PC and the rest of the RIP's
functions are very nice.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst Dinkla"
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
...
> I don't have to tell you what the possibilities are :-) On the
> other hand I got the inpression that you are no longer seeking
> the more mindbending workflows.

Oh no! I have many ideas for endless shadow chasing. For straight quad
work I would be hard pressed to beat or even meet SP's built in
capabilities, but I have many ideas to pursue that will complicate
matters satisfactorily.
Frankly, with large 9600 prints, it's nice to stay in grayscale and
not have to do all that huge 16bit CMYK work. I'm sure I'll find a
reason soon though.

> Anyway there's small applicattion in the archive that will
> convert a greyscale file into a CMYK file (just copies the
> greyscales to 4 channels and nothing else, so no black generation
> etc).

I'll try it. The last method Dan came up with in PS works very well
and maintains 16 bit info, so I haven't explored other methods.

> In the Wasatch SoftRip I have set the black generation from
> 0 to 100 %  and control the Ultratone VM only with the curves on
> top of the linearisation of the CMYK heads. Where Dan, you and
> others did most of that in PS and then loaded the CMYK file in
> PressReady etc I have done the curve separations at the end of
> the process. There's still a compromise that I can't use the
> three CMY channels together as that triggers the black generation
> (which is disturbing the straight approach of the curves) so I
> have to use CcYK or MmCcK and bring the 4th curve to zero. That
> is a limitation but it works on a PC and the rest of the RIP's
> functions are very nice.

I assume the options within the two RIPs are similar. I've concocted
some scenarios in my head that would utilize some functions in PS, and
some functions in the RIP, but haven't had time to pursue them yet.
Sounds like you are doing the same.
Frankly, since I've settled on Cone's quad inksets, I haven't looked
into the possibilities with other inksets or am even aware of their
properties, but certainly all the controls one might want are there
given some unorthodox settings and an open mind.
Dan would go nuts with all this control, probably wind up in therapy.
Tyler

Ernst,

No I have not, but can you explain a bit more, sorry I am new to RIP 
softwares. 
Thanks

Tyler,

> Like any other RIP with advanced controls, one would be hard 
pressed to call any particular ink "unsupported".

Well that was the words I got from tech support when I explained the 
setup.

> Though the mentioned inks aren't directly supported in an easy 
way, there are certainly many aproaches that could work.

I would be very happy if you could give some hints to start with.

So far I have not find a "workaround" so solve it, time has also 
been very limit lately to find solutions.

Regards
Soren

> Soren,
> 
> Will Studioprint accept CMYK files and print them ? Through a
> separate workflow that has linearisation, black generation and
> curves ?
> 
> If so you could do something like I've done with the Wasatch
> SoftRip. It isn't ideal but it works.
> 
> Ernst

Ernst,

> If so you could do something like I've done with the Wasatch
> SoftRip. It isn't ideal but it works.

Is it a better solution than using curves in Photoshop with Epson 
driver?

Regards
Soren

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "soli004"
<soren.lindqvist@t...> wrote:
...
> I would be very happy if you could give some hints to start with.

Oh boy, this could turn into a novel.

> So far I have not find a "workaround" so solve it, time has also 
> been very limit lately to find solutions.

Time is the one thing you'll need.
I don't know anything about your inkset. Can you describe what the
specific colors are? What printer are you using?
I'm not promising anything.
Tyler

> Oh boy, this could turn into a novel.

:) that's ok for me. Maybe that is why tech support did not give me 
a "workaround" solution. How about a "PrintEnviroment" setup that 
will be a good start.

> Time is the one thing you'll need.
> I don't know anything about your inkset. Can you describe what the
> specific colors are? What printer are you using?

Christmas holidays and New Year give me time with the software ;)

Printer: Epson 7500
Inkset: MIS UT original inkset with Eboni.
Colors: 4 greys (1 warm) with 2 cooler tones (blue)
Mix the toners (blue) with the greys to make warm to cold tones on 
paper. Been using Paul Roarks Photoshop curves with Epson driver. 
Trying to make the same thing with better control using StudioPrint.

> I'm not promising anything.

That's ok, anything that give directions where to look is fine.
What I need is a good start up and from there I would be able to 
find out how. Using quadtone setup is not helping as I cant use the 
toners. Using colorsetup is not helping as it only use the black for 
greyscale images even with RGB settings. I need a setting that can 
control the output of the (blue) toners.


Regards
Soren

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "soli004"
<soren.lindqvist@t...> wrote:
>...How about a "PrintEnviroment" setup that 
> will be a good start.

Don't think there's a logical one to start with. Better to start from
scratch.

> Printer: Epson 7500
> Inkset: MIS UT original inkset with Eboni.
> Colors: 4 greys (1 warm) with 2 cooler tones (blue)
> Mix the toners (blue) with the greys to make warm to cold tones on 
> paper.

You're going to have to be very specific. Do you mean it's a quad set
that is warm, with two additional inks that are cool (one possibly a
"light" version of the other)?
The "4 greys (1 warm)" isn't quite registering in my pea brain.

> That's ok, anything that give directions where to look is fine.

There's nowhere that I know of.

> What I need is a good start up and from there I would be able to 
> find out how. Using quadtone setup is not helping as I cant use the 
> toners. Using colorsetup is not helping as it only use the black for 
> greyscale images even with RGB settings. I need a setting that can 
> control the output of the (blue) toners.

I need to think about this some more, not sure which mode will be most
convenient yet.
Tyler