Digital BW, The Print

Hi, 
  There are basicly two options: 
Either 
1- the HP photosmart 7760, 7770, 7790 with a dedicated gray ink 
cartradge. 
  Drawback: it only prints upto letter size. 
Or 
2- Epson 1280 or 1160 using MIS inksets solely for B&W to avoid 
color cast on B&W prints. 
  Advantage: it provides larger print sizes. 
  Drawback: more expensive. Is my understanding correct that one has 
no choice but to buy some additional software to use MIS inksets 
with these printers?  
  I see some softwares on MIS webpage that run under windows and are 
quite expensive such as R9 Driver. I am also a linux user and i know 
that there is a software under linux: QuadtoneRIP. However there is 
no guarantee that i can successfully use this software. So far, it 
seems i have installed it but i don´t see any such option under 
webmin or webcubs 
printer set-up utilities of webmin or webcubs. So not quite sure if 
i can use the printer under linux for B&W. 
  MIS webpage is not quite clear to me on what i should buy? Are the 
cartridges they are selling filled with ink or i have to buy  a 
cartridge and an inkset separately?  
ON MIS homepage, I have seen products with codes: 
ARC-T007-UTK 
ARC-T007-QVM 
ARC-T007-QFS 
ARC-T009-UT2. 
 I am not sure which one is the right choice? 
 
Are there other ways to print color-cast-free B&W prints? 
Also, i can not find any dealer on line selling epson 1160 (seems 
less expensive than 1280). Do you know if this printer can be found 
around for sale? 
 
Regards, Ramin

It seems that i have been able to install QuandToneRIP under 
Mandrake Linux 9.2. Under CUPS WWW admin tool this driver is 
recognized and i can add a printer using this driver. This makes me 
lean toward epson 1280 or 1160. 
  Still your comments and replies for my other inquiries is 
appreciated. 
 
Regards,  Ramin   
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ramin" 
<raminolta@y...> wrote: 
> Hi,  
>   There are basicly two options:  
> Either  
> 1- the HP photosmart 7760, 7770, 7790 with a dedicated gray ink  
> cartradge.  
>   Drawback: it only prints upto letter size.  
> Or  
> 2- Epson 1280 or 1160 using MIS inksets solely for B&W to avoid  
> color cast on B&W prints.  
>   Advantage: it provides larger print sizes.  
>   Drawback: more expensive. Is my understanding correct that one 
has  
> no choice but to buy some additional software to use MIS inksets  
> with these printers?   
>   I see some softwares on MIS webpage that run under windows and 
are  
> quite expensive such as R9 Driver. I am also a linux user and i 
know  
> that there is a software under linux: QuadtoneRIP. However there 
is  
> no guarantee that i can successfully use this software. So far, it  
> seems i have installed it but i don´t see any such option under  
> webmin or webcubs  
> printer set-up utilities of webmin or webcubs. So not quite sure 
if  
> i can use the printer under linux for B&W.  
>   MIS webpage is not quite clear to me on what i should buy? Are 
the  
> cartridges they are selling filled with ink or i have to buy  a  
> cartridge and an inkset separately?   
> ON MIS homepage, I have seen products with codes:  
> ARC-T007-UTK  
> ARC-T007-QVM  
> ARC-T007-QFS  
> ARC-T009-UT2.  
>  I am not sure which one is the right choice?  
>   
> Are there other ways to print color-cast-free B&W prints?  
> Also, i can not find any dealer on line selling epson 1160 (seems  
> less expensive than 1280). Do you know if this printer can be 
found  

> around for sale?  
>   
> Regards, Ramin

Ramin wrote:

>Hi, 
>  There are basicly two options: 
>Either 
>1- the HP photosmart 7760, 7770, 7790 with a dedicated gray ink 
>cartradge. 
>  Drawback: it only prints upto letter size. 
>  
>
Another drawback is that I find a #59 cartridge is good for 8-12 typical 
8x10 B&W prints. Doing the math, with the #59 cartridge averaging $24, 
that is $2-$3 per print for ink.

>Or 
>2- Epson 1280 or 1160 using MIS inksets solely for B&W to avoid 
>color cast on B&W prints. 
>  Advantage: it provides larger print sizes. 
>  Drawback: more expensive. Is my understanding correct that one has 
>no choice but to buy some additional software to use MIS inksets 
>with these printers? 
>

No you don't you can use Photoshop or Picture Window Pro and Paul 
Roark's workflows..

It is MUCH cheaper than using an HP 7660, 7760, 7960.

The main advantage of the HP printers IMHO is that it is a simple plug 
and play option..

I really suggest you read through the archives, the various B&W options 
have been listed and discussed ad nauseum. It really would be redundant 
and take up a lot of bandwidth, not to mention the time of those who 
have listed all these options hitherto, right now to simply list all the 
options here simply because people are too lazy to take the time to read 
the archives..

However, I will give you a list of options to start with:

Clayton Jones\ufffd Black Only

HP 7660/7760/7960

EPSON R800

EPSON 2200 w/ Imageprint

Lyson Small Gamuts

MIS Inks

VM & VM-S

UT 2 - UT 7 \ufffd UT 2200 (C84)

Sundance

Septone & Piezotones

Image Export B&W

PixelPixasso (UC & Septones)

Roy Harrington\ufffds QTR

Bowhaus IJC/OPM

Piezography ICC

Feel free to review the archives for more info on each option.




Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:
>I really suggest you read through the archives, the various B&W options
>have been listed and discussed ad nauseum. It really would be redundant
>and take up a lot of bandwidth, not to mention the time of those who
>have listed all these options hitherto, right now to simply list all the
>options here simply because people are too lazy to take the time to read
>the archives..

Searching the archives in a Yahoo Group is incredibly inconvenient.
This group has 44,000+ posts right now.  The archives search function 
searches ~200 messages at a time.  So you have to click "Next" 200 times to 
search all the archives.

And, when you start reading the messages, Yahoo throws advertisements in 
your way.  Not banner ads, but ads you have to click past.  Then when you 
hit the back button after reading a particular message, to go back to the 
list of messages, you have to click through the same ad again.

It's horrible.

This is a great list, but Yahoo Groups is not a great place for it.  I 
speak from experience as an owner of a former Yahoo Group.  For archived 
information to be of any value on a Yahoo Group, someone has to take the 
time and trouble to maintain a good FAQ, and good key posts have to get 
featured on the "Links" page.  Otherwise, the archives are all but useless.

-Don M

Hello Ramin,

>This makes me lean toward epson 1280 or 1160. 
>Still your comments and replies for my other inquiries is 
>appreciated. 

Keith mentioned Black Only as an option.  Some advantages of BO
printing are it can be done without buying special software, is easy
to learn, and doesn't lock you in to it and prevent you from trying
other things later.  It's a great way to get started.  There is more
info about it on my web site (link below).

The 1280 is a good choice.  It can make beautiful BO prints because of
its 2880 resolution and variable dot size down to 4pl, and can be used
for many other ink systems as well, such as UT2.  Hard to go wrong
with that printer.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

>Searching the archives in a Yahoo Group is incredibly inconvenient.
>This group has 44,000+ posts right now.  The archives search function 
>searches ~200 messages at a time.  So you have to click "Next" 200 times to

>search all the archives.
>...

So true.

Google apparently has a new e-mail system that will include the ability to
search and entire e-mail backlog with their engine.

I wonder if we could somehow use that capability.  Perhaps they have a way
to set up a shared database.  Are they sponsoring groups like this yet?

I would think, given what their main business is, that they might have an
interest in assisting groups like this as long as the database was open to
them and the world.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Yes, the other way to print B&W is to get a good profile, custom profile, for your inks and 
paper combination.  The color casts you hear about are due to profile problems, which is 
understandable cuz all printers can't be made identical.

And the reason this doesn't come up so much in color is that most (many?) people are 
happy with color if it "looks good", a SMALL color "cast" does not even get noticed, let 
alone worried about.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ramin" <raminolta@y...> wrote:

> Hi, 
>   There are basicly two options: 
> Either 
> 1- the HP photosmart 7760, 7770, 7790 with a dedicated gray ink

Bear in mind that the std Epson inks for the 1160 and 1280 are dye inks that fade 
moderately fast depending on how they are displayed.

Some of use don't feel comfortable selling images with dyes; the UC inks on the 2200 etc. 
last much better.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ramin" <raminolta@y...> wrote:

> It seems that i have been able to install QuandToneRIP under 
> Mandrake Linux 9.2. Under CUPS WWW admin tool this driver is 
> recognized and i can add a printer using this driver. This makes me 
> lean toward epson 1280 or 1160.

Paul,

I would be concerned about a move to Google's new email system.  At 
this point it appears that all email will be "read" by their 
computers to help focus the advertising messages that they deliver.  
While they claim that individual data will not be collected, there 
are very obvious privacy concerns here. There has been a great deal 
of concern expressed since their announcement and I am not sure 
whether they will back off or not.  While privacy on an email list 
may be an oxymoron, the principle is really important.

Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> >Searching the archives in a Yahoo Group is incredibly inconvenient.
> >This group has 44,000+ posts right now.  The archives search 
function 
> >searches ~200 messages at a time.  So you have to click "Next" 200 
times to
> 
> >search all the archives.
> >...
> 
> So true.
> 
> Google apparently has a new e-mail system that will include the 
ability to
> search and entire e-mail backlog with their engine.
> 
> I wonder if we could somehow use that capability.  Perhaps they 
have a way
> to set up a shared database.  Are they sponsoring groups like this 
yet?
> 
> I would think, given what their main business is, that they might 
have an
> interest in assisting groups like this as long as the database was 
open to

> them and the world.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

I read your article on BO method in your website. I am not sure if i 
understand correctly that in BO method: 
1- One keeps color inks in the printer. However there is an option 
in epson 2200 and 12880 printers set-up to use only balck ink 
cartridge. When printing b&w photos, one uses this option so that 
the color inks are not used? 
  If this is the case, is it possible to use the epson´s own black 
ink and cartridge or one has to replace this with MIS ink and 
cartridge? 
Or perhaps in BO method, one 
2- removes the color inks and replace them all with balck only 
filled cartridges? 
   
Best regards, Ramin 
 
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote: 
> Hello Ramin, 
> Keith mentioned Black Only as an option.  Some advantages of BO 
> printing are it can be done without buying special software, is 
easy 
> to learn, and doesn't lock you in to it and prevent you from 
trying 
> other things later.  It's a great way to get started.  There is 
more 
> info about it on my web site (link below). 
>  
> The 1280 is a good choice.  It can make beautiful BO prints 
because of 
> its 2880 resolution and variable dot size down to 4pl, and can be 
used 

> for many other ink systems as well, such as UT2.  Hard to go wrong 
> with that printer. 
>  
> Regards, 
> Clayton 
>  
>  
> Info on black and white digital printing at     
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Thanks to all those who replied. I am going to read more on the 
web to learn more and hopefully i will find the answers to my basic 
questions so that my next set of questions will be more subtle. 
 
   Best regards, Ramin

Hello Ramin,

>One keeps color inks in the printer... 

Yes.


>However there is an option in epson 2200 and 1280 printers set-up 
>to use only balck ink cartridge. When printing b&w photos, one 
>uses this option so that the color inks are not used? 

Yes.



>If this is the case, is it possible to use the epson´s own black 
>ink and cartridge 

Yes.  Matte Black is best for matte papers.  Has beter Dmax and is
less warm than Photo Black.



>or one has to replace this with MIS ink and cartridge? 

Is not required.  However, the MIS Eboni black is less warm than Matte
Black and has equal or better Dmax.  I think it is safe to say that
Eboni is the preferred ink by most BO printers.  It also seems to work
ok with the color inks when making color prints.




>Or perhaps in BO method, one removes the color inks and replace 
>them all with balck only filled cartridges? 

Not exactly.  It is possible to replace the color inks with a
grayscale ink set, using Eboni in the black position.  The
soon-to-be-available UT7 ink set is in this category.  When using
these inks it would not be Black Only any more, but would be possible
to switch back and forth, just like BO and Color.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm