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Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-04 by jvajdos@houston.rr.com

Hello again,

I am a newbie to the group and to black and white printing, as you 
will see with my questions, so thank you for your patience!

Do you guys think the grayscale is sufficient or do you have other 
ways you like to convert to black and white in Photoshop or other 
software?  I've downloaded a few free Photoshop plug-ins to convert 
color photos to black and white.  Do you think that these are all 
basically the same, or does anyone have a certain one to recommend?  

Also, I am going to be in the market for a monitor and have no idea 
what I should look for.  I do some color work, but mostly black and 
white.  What features should I be sure to have with one?

Thank you!
-jennifer

RE: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-04 by Jake Hellbach

Hi Jennifer,
For b/w conversion I use an action from Glenn Mitchell at this URL:
http://www.thelightsright.com/DigitalDarkroom/PhotoshopTools.htm
It works very well and you have a number of adjustments for the finished product. I would suggest reading
his pdf tutorials.

I'm sure others will have a more technical outlook on monitors but I just shopped for the largest I could
afford with a good resolution.
Above all get one of the monitor calibration tools available. I bought the Spyder which works great.
Jake

Fine Art Photography
www.jakehellbachphoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: jvajdos@... [mailto:jvajdos@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:16 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor


  Hello again,

  I am a newbie to the group and to black and white printing, as you
  will see with my questions, so thank you for your patience!

  Do you guys think the grayscale is sufficient or do you have other
  ways you like to convert to black and white in Photoshop or other
  software?  I've downloaded a few free Photoshop plug-ins to convert
  color photos to black and white.  Do you think that these are all
  basically the same, or does anyone have a certain one to recommend?

  Also, I am going to be in the market for a monitor and have no idea
  what I should look for.  I do some color work, but mostly black and
  white.  What features should I be sure to have with one?

  Thank you!
  -jennifer




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-04 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: jvajdos@... [mailto:jvajdos@...]
>
> Do you guys think the grayscale is sufficient or do you have other
> ways you like to convert to black and white in Photoshop or other
> software?  I've downloaded a few free Photoshop plug-ins to convert
> color photos to black and white.  Do you think that these are all
> basically the same, or does anyone have a certain one to recommend?

You can almost always do better than simply converting to grayscale or
zeroing the saturation. The easiest PS tool to use is the Channel Mixer. For
instance, you can darken blue skies dramatically by using something like
150% red, 0% green, and -50% blue. Another approach is to use a grayscale
proof setup, then yank the underlying colors around with things like
Hue/Saturation while viewing the gray, and then do a final conversion to
grayscale when done. Other people do essentially the same thing with a
Hue/Sat adjustment layer with the saturation turned down, but the former has
the advantage that you can toggle between gray and color with Ctrl+Y.

> Also, I am going to be in the market for a monitor and have no idea
> what I should look for.  I do some color work, but mostly black and
> white.  What features should I be sure to have with one?

Get a calibrator. Also, be aware that most LCDs confuse calibrators, because
of the variations in their output versus viewing angle. Unless you can get a
high-end LCD, you're safer buying a decent CRT. You can also get higher
resolution out of a CRT (with suitable video card), like 2048x1536.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-04 by Sam McCandless

At 7:16 PM +0000 8/4/04, jvajdos@... wrote:
>[snip]
>Also, I am going to be in the market for a monitor and have no idea 
>what I should look for.  I do some color work, but mostly black and 
>white.  What features should I be sure to have with one?
>
>Thank you!
>-jennifer

Are you on a Mac or a PC, Jennifer, and do you happen to know which 
video/display card is in it? If you're on a Mac, it will tell you if 
you open the Apple System Profiler under the apple icon (top left) 
and click on Devices and Volumes (second tab).

  And do you have any idea yet about the size/format at which you'll 
want to print B&W prints? Or about how much you'll be willing to 
spend on the monitor/display plus the supplementary hardware and 
software you might need to calibrate and profile it?

Thanks.
--
Sam

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-05 by jvajdos@houston.rr.com

Thank you everyone for your responses.

I am on a PC and have no idea what kind of video display card I 
have.  It's probably 5 years old, and it came free with my computer, 
so I'm sure it's not very good!  I am hoping to spend less than 
$400, so I'm sure I will have to pick and choose options.  I usually 
print jpeg 4 X 6, 5 X 7 and 8 X 10s.

Calibrate and profile?  I have no idea what that even means!

Yes, pure amateur here.

Thank you for your help!


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless 
<samcc@v...> wrote:
 
> Are you on a Mac or a PC, Jennifer, and do you happen to know 
which 
> video/display card is in it? If you're on a Mac, it will tell you 
if 
> you open the Apple System Profiler under the apple icon (top left) 
> and click on Devices and Volumes (second tab).
> 
>   And do you have any idea yet about the size/format at which 
you'll 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> want to print B&W prints? Or about how much you'll be willing to 
> spend on the monitor/display plus the supplementary hardware and 
> software you might need to calibrate and profile it?
> 
> Thanks.
> --
> Sam

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-05 by lulalake_1999

First, go to www.belarc.com for a free computer system analysis 
program,download and run it and it examines and reports the hardware 
and software on your computer in exhausting detail. You will see what 
kind of card you have.

I assume you are running PS or PSP or some image manipulating 
program. No matter what, you should have a pretty good card, there 
are a number of very good cards from 150 bucks (and cheaper) on up. 
I suggest a 128 meg card, minimum, Radeon or Nvidia (both excellent)
or some other Mfg. ( I think around 175-250 bucks will do you very 
well)

They are very easy to install, but if you are uncomfortable 
installing it have somebody do it for you. 

Calibrating and profiling involve basically making your monitor, 
printer, and scanner (if you have one) all agree on a given color. 
The same red you see on the screen matches the red that your printer 
puts out, matches the red on a scanned pic, and they reflect the 
colors that appear on calibration cards, etc. There are simple, cheap 
ways and complex, expensive ways but that's the goal.

Cheers

Jules

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvajdos@h... 
wrote:
> Thank you everyone for your responses.
> 
> I am on a PC and have no idea what kind of video display card I 
> have.  It's probably 5 years old, and it came free with my 
computer, 
> so I'm sure it's not very good!  I am hoping to spend less than 
> $400, so I'm sure I will have to pick and choose options.  I 
usually 
> print jpeg 4 X 6, 5 X 7 and 8 X 10s.
> 
> Calibrate and profile?  I have no idea what that even means!
> 
> Yes, pure amateur here.
> 
> Thank you for your help!
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless 
> <samcc@v...> wrote:
>  
> > Are you on a Mac or a PC, Jennifer, and do you happen to know 
> which 
> > video/display card is in it? If you're on a Mac, it will tell you 
> if 
> > you open the Apple System Profiler under the apple icon (top 
left) 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > and click on Devices and Volumes (second tab).
> > 
> >   And do you have any idea yet about the size/format at which 
> you'll 
> > want to print B&W prints? Or about how much you'll be willing to 
> > spend on the monitor/display plus the supplementary hardware and 
> > software you might need to calibrate and profile it?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > Sam

RE: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-05 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: lulalake_1999 [mailto:lulalake_1999@...]
>
> I assume you are running PS or PSP or some image manipulating
> program. No matter what, you should have a pretty good card, there
> are a number of very good cards from 150 bucks (and cheaper) on up.
> I suggest a 128 meg card, minimum, Radeon or Nvidia (both excellent)
> or some other Mfg. ( I think around 175-250 bucks will do you very
> well)

For photo editing, you don't need 128 megs of video memory--that's for
storing textures, etc., for gaming. Running 2048x1536 at 32bps is only 12
megs, so 16 is plenty for a single monitor, 32 if you want to run dual or
have a larger virtual desktop. You can get a Matrox Millenium G450 with 16
megs for under $30. It won't shine in the 3D rendering department, but it'll
work great for high-resolution photo editing.

> Calibrating and profiling involve basically making your monitor,
> printer, and scanner (if you have one) all agree on a given color.
> The same red you see on the screen matches the red that your printer
> puts out, matches the red on a scanned pic, and they reflect the
> colors that appear on calibration cards, etc. There are simple, cheap
> ways and complex, expensive ways but that's the goal.

Monitor calibration is important because monitors out of the box are
uncalibrated. Scanners, cameras and printers at least try to be calibrated,
so you can usually get by without tweaking them.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-05 by Tom Baker

I'll second that.  I dont' do games, etc.  I have a couple of $40 cards that work just fine for the non-moving image stuff.
 
Tom Baker

"Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...> wrote:
> From: lulalake_1999 [mailto:lulalake_1999@...]
>
> I assume you are running PS or PSP or some image manipulating
> program. No matter what, you should have a pretty good card, there
> are a number of very good cards from 150 bucks (and cheaper) on up.
> I suggest a 128 meg card, minimum, Radeon or Nvidia (both excellent)
> or some other Mfg. ( I think around 175-250 bucks will do you very
> well)

For photo editing, you don't need 128 megs of video memory--that's for
storing textures, etc., for gaming. Running 2048x1536 at 32bps is only 12
megs, so 16 is plenty for a single monitor, 32 if you want to run dual or
have a larger virtual desktop. You can get a Matrox Millenium G450 with 16
megs for under $30. It won't shine in the 3D rendering department, but it'll
work great for high-resolution photo editing.

> Calibrating and profiling involve basically making your monitor,
> printer, and scanner (if you have one) all agree on a given color.
> The same red you see on the screen matches the red that your printer
> puts out, matches the red on a scanned pic, and they reflect the
> colors that appear on calibration cards, etc. There are simple, cheap
> ways and complex, expensive ways but that's the goal.

Monitor calibration is important because monitors out of the box are
uncalibrated. Scanners, cameras and printers at least try to be calibrated,
so you can usually get by without tweaking them.

--

Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
Paul mailto:pderocco@...




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Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-06 by Sam McCandless

At 6:52 PM +0000 8/5/04, jvajdos@... wrote:
>I am on a PC and have no idea what kind of video display card I
>have.  It's probably 5 years old, and it came free with my computer,
>so I'm sure it's not very good!

But, judging from what Paul and Tom posted, Jennifer, I think your 
old card is probably good enough because the card in my equally old 
Mac is. And if it's not, you apparently can get one which is for $30 
- $40. Good news.


>I am hoping to spend less than $400, so I'm sure I will have to pick 
>and choose options. I usually print jpeg 4 X 6, 5 X 7 and 8 X 10s.

More good news. Because I think it means that a 17-inch CRT will be 
big enough for you, and I believe you can get a good 17" CRT for a 
lot less than $350 (allowing $50 for the card contingency). I'd check 
the PC World reviews. If I had to buy one tonight w/o checking the 
reviews, I think I'd buy a Viewsonic from their Graphics or Pro 
series, but I'm not sure which one.


>Calibrate and profile?  I have no idea what that even means!

Adjusting the monitor so that as you massage the image (in Photoshop 
Elements 2?) you can see on the monitor a useful approximation to 
what you'd see come out of a profiled printer. But your budget 
probably can't accommodate all that color management, and I think you 
can manage without it.
--
Sam

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-08 by jvajdos@houston.rr.com

Just wanted to follow up a little and say thanks to everyone. I was 
able to see what was on my computer by going to www.belarc.com -- it 
is scary what all they could detect!  So from what I understand, I 
need at least a 16 meg video card (good news I already have that) 
and calibration software (like Spyder).  If I get that, then as long 
as I get at least a 17 inch CRT or high end LCD with good resolution 
(2048x1536) I should be good to go.  

Also, I really like the B & W conversion at 
http://www.thelightsright.com/DigitalDarkroom/PhotoshopTools.htm

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-09 by Sam McCandless

Since I last wrote, Jennifer, I stumbled across the June, 2004 
Consumer Reports magazine's review of 17-inch and 19-inch displays, 
both LCD (20) and CRT(8) displays. Among the four 17-inch CRTs they 
reviewed, two IBMs, the E74 ($145) and the Think Vision C170 ($190) 
did best, but the Dell E773c ($150) did almost as well. A Gateway 
EV730 ($150) brought up the rear and didn't have the three-year 
warranty the other three had. A 17-inch ViewSonic wasn't reviewed, 
but a 19-inch VS was and didn't do well.

The best of all 28 displays was the 17-inch LCD Apple Studio Display. 
It's $700, but I'm mentioning it to point out that its optimum (and 
maximum) resolution is 1280 x 1024. So 2048 x 1536 seems unrealistic 
as a standard at this size. In the case of CRTs, it's better to watch 
at an 85 Hz refresh rate or higher. If necessary, I'd watch a CRT at 
a lower than 1280 x 1024 resolution in order to watch at 85 Hz. The 
resolution at which you can do that is the most important one. I like 
1024 x 768, and it's often provided at 85 Hz.

Not all displays can be profiled with every colorimeter (Spyder, 
etc.). So if you want to be sure you can profile one you're 
interested in, dig into the spec's, call up, etc. until you find out. 
I don't think it's essential, and I think there might be a better use 
for the money, so I'd buy the colorimeter and its software last.
--
Sam


At 11:49 AM +0000 8/8/04, jvajdos@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Just wanted to follow up a little and say thanks to everyone. I was
>able to see what was on my computer by going to www.belarc.com -- it
>is scary what all they could detect!  So from what I understand, I
>need at least a 16 meg video card (good news I already have that)
>and calibration software (like Spyder).  If I get that, then as long
>as I get at least a 17 inch CRT or high end LCD with good resolution
>(2048x1536) I should be good to go. 
>
>Also, I really like the B & W conversion at
>http://www.thelightsright.com/DigitalDarkroom/PhotoshopTools.htm
>
>Thanks again for everyone's help!

RE: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-09 by Joe Dempsey

Let me put my two cents worth in on this thread, if it's not too late. LaCie
monitors, IMHO are among the finest available and are produced with graphics
practitioners in mind. I use a dual monitor setup with two LaCie Blue IV's
and life is good. I bought refurbished. When the monitors arrived, I could
not tell them from new.

Joe
    a..



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-09 by Steven Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Dempsey" 
<jdempsey@c...> wrote:
> Let me put my two cents worth in on this thread, if it's not too 
late. LaCie
> monitors, IMHO are among the finest available and are produced 
with graphics
> practitioners in mind. I use a dual monitor setup with two LaCie 
Blue IV's
> and life is good. I bought refurbished. When the monitors arrived, 
I could
> not tell them from new.
> 
> Joe
>     a..
> 
And allow me to put in my two cents on the subject of 'refurbished ' 
monitors. There's no such thing as a refurbished CRT tube, or LCD 
screen, they are sealed units. Accumulated 'burn time' is what 
really counts, so the best you can hope for is a monitor who's 
electronics failed prematurely, or perhaps was returned and 
reboxed,and the tube has some life left to it. IMHO, not a very good 
gamble. This is probably the last piece of equipment you should 
consider buying 'refurbished', regardless of brand.

Steve Karafyllakis

Once burned, twice cautious.

Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-09 by Mark Savoia

Most refurb monitors are ones that just made a trip to a dealer and 
then back because of over-ordering or mis-orders. Then they can not be 
sold as new so therefore the "refurbished" label goes on them. As long 
as they come with the same warranty, who cares. I own several LaCie 
refurbished units with no problems.
Mark

On Aug 9, 2004, at 8:56 AM, Steven Karafyllakis wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Dempsey"
>  <jdempsey@c...> wrote:
>  > Let me put my two cents worth in on this thread, if it's not too
>  late. LaCie
>  > monitors, IMHO are among the finest available and are produced
>  with graphics
>  > practitioners in mind. I use a dual monitor setup with two LaCie
>  Blue IV's
>  > and life is good. I bought refurbished. When the monitors arrived,
>  I could
>  > not tell them from new.
>  >
>  > Joe
>  >���� a..
>  >
>  And allow me to put in my two cents on the subject of 'refurbished '
>  monitors. There's no such thing as a refurbished CRT tube, or LCD
>  screen, they are sealed units. Accumulated 'burn time' is what
>  really counts, so the best you can hope for is a monitor who's
>  electronics failed prematurely, or perhaps was returned and
>  reboxed,and the tube has some life left to it. IMHO, not a very good
>  gamble. This is probably the last piece of equipment you should
>  consider buying 'refurbished', regardless of brand.
>
>  Steve Karafyllakis
>
>  Once burned, twice cautious.
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the 
> Files section:
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Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-09 by Sam McCandless

At 9:05 AM -0400 8/9/04, Mark Savoia wrote:
>Most refurb monitors are ones that just made a trip to a dealer and
>then back because of over-ordering or mis-orders. Then they can not be
>sold as new so therefore the "refurbished" label goes on them. As long
>as they come with the same warranty, who cares. I own several LaCie
>refurbished units with no problems.
>Mark

How long is the warranty on the new and refurbished LaCies?

And what do refurbed LaCies cost? I didn't mention them to Jennifer, 
who could use one, only because she has a budget of $400 for a 
display and any card she might need, but it looks like her card will 
do.

But I might be interested in a LaCie for myself too.

Thanks
--
Sam

RE: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor

2004-08-09 by Joe Dempsey

The warranty is thirty days ... but my experience with monitors is that they
last until they get ugly. The only monitors I had failures on were well over
five years old. My wife has one of my old monitors on her computer and that
mother has to be seven or eight years old. The new price for the 19 LaCie is
385 I think. I gave 199 apiece for the "refurbs."
Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Sam McCandless [mailto:samcc@...]
  Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:29 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Photoshop plug-ins and monitor


  At 9:05 AM -0400 8/9/04, Mark Savoia wrote:
  >Most refurb monitors are ones that just made a trip to a dealer and
  >then back because of over-ordering or mis-orders. Then they can not be
  >sold as new so therefore the "refurbished" label goes on them. As long
  >as they come with the same warranty, who cares. I own several LaCie
  >refurbished units with no problems.
  >Mark

  How long is the warranty on the new and refurbished LaCies?

  And what do refurbed LaCies cost? I didn't mention them to Jennifer,
  who could use one, only because she has a budget of $400 for a
  display and any card she might need, but it looks like her card will
  do.

  But I might be interested in a LaCie for myself too.

  Thanks
  --
  Sam


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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