Digital BW, The Print

Tim,

Thanks for the appreciation!..=*^)

But, YOU are not the issue here - and neither am I - the issue here are 
aspiring, newly started photogs who don't have a clue about what's out 
there - and where to get that info - sure you can join ASMP or any 
other pro organization and pay $300/year - and basically learn the same 
stuff - for 12 times the price.

Perhaps you are such a successful photog and been in the business so 
long that you cannot remember what it was like starting out - me - I 
remember very well - and I know what I learned from EP and that has 
served me well. And I think that if it served me well it'll probably do 
the same for others as well

As for your statement that there's a high rate of noise - I can't 
really agree with that - but then we all have different ideas of what 
is what, right?

As for the AD copy - it came straight from my experiences - and if it 
was so well written that it turns a few beginners to EP, I'll feel 
pretty good about it!

Live well,

C

Christer, AKA Christer Rosewell
http://www.ChristerArt.com
3.4+ million visitors to date..


On Nov 30, 2004, at 7:23 PM, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>    From: Tim Atherton <timatherton@...>
> Subject: RE: Re: Join us at MEDIAPHOTO Yahoo Group
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Nelson [mailto:pnweb@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:52 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Join us at MEDIAPHOTO Yahoo Group
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Christer
>> Rosewelll <christerart@m...> wrote:
>>> In order to better serve it's members it is now moving off Yahoo
>> and in
>>> order to do so there is a small fee - $25 for the first year if you
>>> join before 2005. After that is $50/year. Students/assistants can
>> join
>>> for half that fee. This huge (I am ironic here) sum is obviously
>> too
>>> much for some people - how that can be as for a student/assistant
>> the
>>> first year cost comes to $0.034/day - that's right - 3.4 cents per
>> day!
>>
>> You should be writing ad copy for Popeil.
>>
>> That's right friends, and if you act today we'll throw in this free -
>> FREE - sensor blower - normally a $24.95 value - but just to get you
>> to TRY our exciting new Digi-Store combination digital storage and
>> inkjet printing assistant, fully automatic and factory equipped to be
>> compatible with all major operating systems.  Imagine impressing your
>> rich know-it-all photographer friends when they SEE what this little
>> unit can do.   That's right folks, DIAL from gamma to color to get
>> picture perfect photo-quality inkjet prints EVERY time!    But wait,
>> there's more!!   What would you expect to pay for this genuine
>> imitation Naugahyde carrying case with attached business card pockets
>> containing an ACTUAL membership in the Editorial Photographers
>> association?  100 dollars?   50 dollars?  Nope.  A mere TWENTY FIVE
>> dollars.   Twenty Five smackeroos!  That's only 6.8 cents a day -
>> less than the cost of drycleaning your Christmas ties.  So how can
>> you afford not to join?  Do the names Joel Meyerowitz, Lois
>> Greenfield, Ansel Adams, David Alan Harvey or Herb Ritts ring a
>> bell?   They are just SOME of the great photographers whose work you
>> can discuss if you are a member of EP.    So don't wait, act
>> TODAY.    This exciting offer is only good until midnight tonight.
>> Operators are standing by!
>>
>>
>> (offer not good after curfew in Sectors R or N)
>
> Not to forget that EP from very early on was really designed as a 
> career and
> product boosting platform for a small number of photographers.
>
>> you afford not to join?  Do the names Joel Meyerowitz, Lois
>> Greenfield, Ansel Adams, David Alan Harvey or Herb Ritts ring a
>> bell?
>
> Of course you won't find any such really successful photographers (the 
> live
> ones anyway) on EP
>
> I've been on the EP list from pretty soon after it first started. It 
> has
> always had a very high noise to content ratio (despite, or perhaps 
> because
> of fairly heavy handed moderation) and you could probably condense the
> useful content down to an FAQ of 15 or 20 simple topics (interspersed 
> by ads
> for Photokit or the latest paying seminar by one of the Board 
> Members). For
> a long time now I just got the digest, would skim through it and 
> rarely find
> anything of worth or interest. It could be fun to natter on, but I have
> never found it a seriously useful tool, and as an organisation, 
> compared to
> the likes of ASMP etc, pretty toothless. Paying $25.00/$50.00 isn't 
> worth it
> for me for the value of information I get from it. I'd rather spend the
> money on a subscription to Blindspot (or even PDN)
>
> But I love your Ad copy above!
>
> tim a

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Thanks for the appreciation!..=*^)
>
> But, YOU are not the issue here - and neither am I - the issue here are
> aspiring, newly started photogs who don't have a clue about what's out
> there - and where to get that info - sure you can join ASMP or any
> other pro organization and pay $300/year - and basically learn the same
> stuff - for 12 times the price.
>
> Perhaps you are such a successful photog and been in the business so
> long that you cannot remember what it was like starting out - me - I
> remember very well - and I know what I learned from EP and that has
> served me well. And I think that if it served me well it'll probably do
> the same for others as well

Yes, all very well, but the way EP is now, newbies asking newbie questions
are generally either put down, or going by the off-list questions I get sent
to me, their posts are rejected by the moderators (and at most told to
search the archives, which, of course, on Yahoo is/was always pretty
pointless). - and the list/moderators were usually controlled with something
of an iron grip

Which is what I meant by the fact that most of what's really useful for
aspiring, newly started photographers could be put together in a series of
simple FAQ's.

Also, from what I can now tell (and from talking to a couple of people who
have tried to sign up), the new, improved version of EP requires a higher
standard of achievement for membership and seems to cut out a number of
potential aspiring, newly starting photogs type members. They seem to take
students/assistants, but just starting out photographers who may not be
supporting themselves from their photography full-time yet, or those with
very limited track records seem not quite so welcome apparently - which as I
understand was part of the impetus behind MEDIAPHOTO

tim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tim Atherton 
<timatherton@t...> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the appreciation!..=*^)
> >
> > But, YOU are not the issue here - and neither am I - the issue 
here are
> > aspiring, newly started photogs who don't have a clue about 
what's out
> > there - and where to get that info - sure you can join ASMP or any
> > other pro organization and pay $300/year - and basically learn 
the same
> > stuff - for 12 times the price.

But there are plenty of FREE forums with a good mix of professionals, 
serious amateurs and beginners that have active discussions and 
knowledgable infomation and big databases.   

Even THIS little forum has pro's on it.  So does fredmiranda.com and 
photo.net and plenty of others.