Digital BW, The Print

Antonis/Joe,

FYI...I sent Bowhaus very similar questions a couple of days ago, but haven't heard a peep. It appears that this software company, as are many others nowadays, are simply not interested in the customer! I really cannot understand how these people stay in business. As the deadline is nearly upon us--tomorrow--it appears that Bowhaus will not be seeing my $179!

I am still thankful for the very complete answer by Antonis to my prior post. Perhaps, someday I will look at IJC/OPM again, but, for now, I'll be sticking with ImagePrint.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Antonis" <antonisphoto@...>
> Date: 2005/01/04 Tue PM 01:16:24 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: IJC/ OPM_windows  some more questions to decide
> 
> 
> 
> Joe,
> you may want to contact BowHaus directly for questions on upgrades etc.
> http://www.bowhaus.com/contact/contact.htm
> 
> I believe IJC/OPM works on win2000 but I have only tested it on XP pro.
> Better to ask at Bowhaus for an official answer.
> 
> Very gradual toning can be achieved because it depends either on how
> you build your profile (you can do split toning within a profile too) or how
> you build your alpha channels in photoshop.
> 
> The paper/ ink profiles are meant as starter profiles. Some come from
> Bowhaus some from other users like myself. They may not fit your exact
> set up. 
> Example of profiles:
> R200 - OEM inks - Costco gloss paper, EEM (Enhanced Matte)
> 9600 - OEM inks - Canvas sepia, Hahnemuhle Photo Rag
> 9500 - WarmTone Piezotone - EAM (Archival Matte), Moab Canvas
> 7000 - WarmTone Piezotone with MIS FS black - Photo Rag
> 4000 - OEM - H. German Etching
> 2200 - MIS_UT - Ilford Smooth pearl, permaJet mus. classic, Epson Luster
> 2200 - OEM - Concorde Rag, Wells River, EEM, EAM, Velvet FA, G.Etching, 
>             P.Rag, Epson color Life, JetPrint Pro, Kodak Ultima, 
>             Oriental FB Glossy, Red River UltraPro, Lyson Pro Gloss
> 2200 - Lyson Daylight Darkroom inks - DD Gloss, DD Matt
> 
> 
> Depending on the set up profiles can be adapted to other printers with
> the same inks - such as 2200/OEM profiles can easily be used for 
> 7600/9600 machines as long as they are linearized, and vice versa.
> Likewise, one Hahnemuehle profile can easily be adapted to other H.
> papers by mostly linearizing.
> 
> 
> Antonis

I know :(  I sent the same questions to bowhaus and get no answer...

Thanks again to Antonis !

Regards.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
<Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote:
> Antonis/Joe,
> 
> FYI...I sent Bowhaus very similar questions a couple of days ago, 
but haven't heard a peep. It appears that this software company, as 
are many others nowadays, are simply not interested in the customer! 
I really cannot understand how these people stay in business. As the 
deadline is nearly upon us--tomorrow--it appears that Bowhaus will 
not be seeing my $179!
> 
> I am still thankful for the very complete answer by Antonis to my 
prior post. Perhaps, someday I will look at IJC/OPM again, but, for 
now, I'll be sticking with ImagePrint.
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
> > 
> > From: "Antonis" <antonisphoto@y...>
> > Date: 2005/01/04 Tue PM 01:16:24 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: IJC/ OPM_windows  some more questions 
to decide
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Joe,
> > you may want to contact BowHaus directly for questions on 
upgrades etc.
> > http://www.bowhaus.com/contact/contact.htm
> > 
> > I believe IJC/OPM works on win2000 but I have only tested it on 
XP pro.
> > Better to ask at Bowhaus for an official answer.
> > 
> > Very gradual toning can be achieved because it depends either on 
how
> > you build your profile (you can do split toning within a profile 
too) or how
> > you build your alpha channels in photoshop.
> > 
> > The paper/ ink profiles are meant as starter profiles. Some come 
from
> > Bowhaus some from other users like myself. They may not fit your 
exact
> > set up. 
> > Example of profiles:
> > R200 - OEM inks - Costco gloss paper, EEM (Enhanced Matte)
> > 9600 - OEM inks - Canvas sepia, Hahnemuhle Photo Rag
> > 9500 - WarmTone Piezotone - EAM (Archival Matte), Moab Canvas
> > 7000 - WarmTone Piezotone with MIS FS black - Photo Rag
> > 4000 - OEM - H. German Etching
> > 2200 - MIS_UT - Ilford Smooth pearl, permaJet mus. classic, Epson 
Luster
> > 2200 - OEM - Concorde Rag, Wells River, EEM, EAM, Velvet FA, 
G.Etching, 
> >             P.Rag, Epson color Life, JetPrint Pro, Kodak Ultima, 
> >             Oriental FB Glossy, Red River UltraPro, Lyson Pro 
Gloss
> > 2200 - Lyson Daylight Darkroom inks - DD Gloss, DD Matt
> > 
> > 
> > Depending on the set up profiles can be adapted to other printers 
with
> > the same inks - such as 2200/OEM profiles can easily be used for 
> > 7600/9600 machines as long as they are linearized, and vice versa.
> > Likewise, one Hahnemuehle profile can easily be adapted to other 
H.

> > papers by mostly linearizing.
> > 
> > 
> > Antonis

Howdy - I'm new to the group and wanted to know if anyone is using this 
combo.  I am and recently have been underwhelmed by it.  My workflow is to 
get the TIF looking the way I want it in Photoshop CS and then export it to 
the R9 Driver.  I've tried playing with the gamma but my reading of the 
manual is that this only effects the mid-tones.  I've recently been able to 
get better looking prints from my Epson 960 using soft proofing and the OEM 
inks.  I'm thinking of going with the MIS inks and curves.

Any thoughts.

Ernie Nitka

Hello Ernie,

I used the PiezographyBW plugin (same as R9 by Sundance)intially when 
trying to learn BW printing and found all the lower midtones to be 
blocked up and muddy. Then I upgraded to the BWIcc profiles and used 
MIS FSN inks and got very good tones all the way from black to white.

Then MIS said they were going to discontinue FSN in favor of the new 
UT inks by Paul Roark, who is on this newgroup a lot. I bought the 
UT2 inks and have been very well pleased with them. I use both the 
curves by Paul and am trying out QTR by Roy Harrington to see the 
difference in ink consumption and tones. So far the QTR uses less ink 
that the Epson driver with sliders set to zero, but Prefer the warmer 
tones of the sliders. I'm still learning QTR's finer points at this 
time.

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, ernie nitka 
<enitka1@c...> wrote:
> 
> Howdy - I'm new to the group and wanted to know if anyone is using 
this 
> combo.  I am and recently have been underwhelmed by it.  My 
workflow is to 
> get the TIF looking the way I want it in Photoshop CS and then 
export it to 
> the R9 Driver.  I've tried playing with the gamma but my reading of 
the 
> manual is that this only effects the mid-tones.  I've recently been 
able to 
> get better looking prints from my Epson 960 using soft proofing and 
the OEM 

> inks.  I'm thinking of going with the MIS inks and curves.
> 
> Any thoughts.
> 
> Ernie Nitka

Johnny - many thanks - I think it's time for me to try the MIS inks and 
see where that gets me.

ernie

On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:27 PM, Johnny Eades wrote:

>
>
>
>  Hello Ernie,
>
>  I used the PiezographyBW plugin (same as R9 by Sundance)intially when
>  trying to learn BW printing and found all the lower midtones to be
>  blocked up and muddy. Then I upgraded to the BWIcc profiles and used
>  MIS FSN inks and got very good tones all the way from black to white.
>
>  Then MIS said they were going to discontinue FSN in favor of the new
>  UT inks by Paul Roark, who is on this newgroup a lot. I bought the
>  UT2 inks and have been very well pleased with them. I use both the
>  curves by Paul and am trying out QTR by Roy Harrington to see the
>  difference in ink consumption and tones. So far the QTR uses less ink
>  that the Epson driver with sliders set to zero, but Prefer the warmer
>  tones of the sliders. I'm still learning QTR's finer points at this
>  time.
>
>  Your friend in Photography,
>
>  Johnny
>
>
>
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, ernie nitka
>  <enitka1@c...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Howdy - I'm new to the group and wanted to know if anyone is using
>  this
>  > combo.  I am and recently have been underwhelmed by it.  My
>  workflow is to
>  > get the TIF looking the way I want it in Photoshop CS and then
>  export it to
>  > the R9 Driver.  I've tried playing with the gamma but my reading of
>  the
>  > manual is that this only effects the mid-tones.  I've recently been
>  able to
>  > get better looking prints from my Epson 960 using soft proofing and
>  the OEM
>  > inks.  I'm thinking of going with the MIS inks and curves.
>  >
>  > Any thoughts.
>  >
>  > Ernie Nitka
>
>
>
>
>
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Hi Ernie,

I have been using the Sundance inks (Niagra CIS) and the R9 Septone driver with an Epson 
2200 for the past eight months and am extremely pleased with the results. (This is 
compared to the 2200 with UltraChrome Inks and ImagePrint RIP, 1280 with Piezotone 
Inks, HP 7960 with the medium and light gray ink carts, and a new R800 which is great for 
color, but awful for monochrome.) I think your experience with the latest R9 driver and 
Sundance inks should be the same as mine except that you can only have one ink tone.

I would ask three quick questions. First, is your monitor profiled correctly? I am using an 
Apple 23" display and uncorrected, it is way too bright for any printing that I do. I am 
using the GretagMacbeth Eye-One (about $200) and have found that my monitor is now 
very very close to my final output.

Second, are you getting clean nozzle checks? If something is clogged, you definitely will 
not be getting accurate tones. 

Third, have you tried printing the grayscale.tif image that comes with the R9 software? 
With my setup, I measured each density patch with a densitometer (Heiland TRD 2) and got 
this nice smooth curve with densities from 0 up to 1.65 using Epson Enhanced Matte 
paper. If you print one out and send it to me, I don't mind doing the measurements for 
you, just email me off list. This would establish right away if there might be something off 
with your printer or if by chance you placed any of the inks incorrectly.

Hope this helps.

Mark


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, ernie nitka <enitka1@c...> wrote:

> 
> Howdy - I'm new to the group and wanted to know if anyone is using this 
> combo.  I am and recently have been underwhelmed by it.  My workflow is to 
> get the TIF looking the way I want it in Photoshop CS and then export it to 
> the R9 Driver.  I've tried playing with the gamma but my reading of the 
> manual is that this only effects the mid-tones.  I've recently been able to 
> get better looking prints from my Epson 960 using soft proofing and the OEM 
> inks.  I'm thinking of going with the MIS inks and curves.
> 
> Any thoughts.
> 
> Ernie Nitka

Ernie,

Do yourself a favor and check to make sure that the proper inks are in
the proper bottles and cartridge compartments. I have first hand
experience with misfilled carts and misfilled bottles supplied by
Sundance. If you find that this is your problem then I wish you a lot
of luck when you try to get the matter corrected.

UT2 in the 1280 is wonderful and MIS will not give you the heartburn
that you will get from the Sundance people. 

Wayne Firth




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, ernie nitka
<enitka1@c...> wrote:
> 
> Howdy - I'm new to the group and wanted to know if anyone is using this 
> combo.  I am and recently have been underwhelmed by it.  My workflow
is to 
> get the TIF looking the way I want it in Photoshop CS and then
export it to 
> the R9 Driver.  I've tried playing with the gamma but my reading of the 
> manual is that this only effects the mid-tones.  I've recently been
able to 
> get better looking prints from my Epson 960 using soft proofing and
the OEM 

> inks.  I'm thinking of going with the MIS inks and curves.
> 
> Any thoughts.
> 
> Ernie Nitka