Digital BW, The Print

I've been away from the list for a few days during which time I bought a  
1270 to use with VM inkset and spongeless carts from MIS.  When I went to  
MIS website to order.....no spongeless carts available! Have they been  
discontinued I wonder?
Andy

Andy,

The spongeless carts for the 1270 are at
http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm.

By the way, I highly recommend you upgrade from the VM to UT inks.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andy
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:16 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] MIS Spongeless
> 
> I've been away from the list for a few days during which time I bought a
> 1270 to use with VM inkset and spongeless carts from MIS.  When I went to
> MIS website to order.....no spongeless carts available! Have they been
> discontinued I wonder?
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

I called them up the other day. Apparently they're backordered for a month. 
Popular, I guess.

dale

On 04/05/05, andy <andywebster@...> wrote:
> 
> I've been away from the list for a few days during which time I bought a
> 1270 to use with VM inkset and spongeless carts from MIS. When I went to
> MIS website to order.....no spongeless carts available! Have they been
> discontinued I wonder?
> Andy
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Folks,

Are you supposed to remove the mylar tape from on top of the EZ 
cartridges before putting them in the printer, or is this only to be 
removed when the cartridges are re-filled?

-Peter

Yes, remove the mylar.

Fill the cart and then plug the hole with a "stopper" they provided you.

If they didn't send you a stopper, use hot melt glue.

I don't think tape will work, though.

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Smidt 
<pdesmidt@T...> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> Are you supposed to remove the mylar tape from on top of the EZ 
> cartridges before putting them in the printer, or is this only to be 
> removed when the cartridges are re-filled?
> 
> -Peter

Let me add that you plug ONLY the fill hole (over the resovoir) and 
leave the vent holes (over the sponge-side) uncovered.

Don't cover the vent hole(s).


Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Smidt 
<pdesmidt@T...> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> Are you supposed to remove the mylar tape from on top of the EZ 
> cartridges before putting them in the printer, or is this only to be 
> removed when the cartridges are re-filled?
> 
> -Peter

hello, I am on a quest to get my BW prints to be like what I remember 
our old darkroom prints  looking and feeling like (it's been almost 
thirty years since!)

any way, That to me means slightly glossy print that does not feel like 
plastic. I use paul roarks curves with my 1280 and ut2/glop inks.

Results with kirkland are great, and not "computery" but only up to 
letter size. Epson prem semi-gloss is good if I use print sheild spray, 
but not quite the right surface. Premium glossy is too glossy. Epson 
premium semi-matte is exactly the right surface, But the image quality 
is not up to kirkland, and in order to get a good print I have to go to 
2880. Then, the dark areas are a little more glossy than the midtones. 
I Think i can fix that by adjusting the glop curve, no biggie. The 2880 
setting is Soooooo slow...

So now I just remembered that i have a whole box of ilford smooth pearl 
13x19 sitting here, also have some in letter size. WOW, the image 
quality is as good as kirkland, and with glop, there is a perfectly 
bronzing-free finish. Still feels too much like plastic, and the pearl 
surface can be reflective, but the result is really nice and not 
"computery"

"computery" is my new term for prints that make people say "did you do 
this on computer or something?" I hate it when they do that

So now my main question:
I know that ilford smooth papers are not acid buffered like kirkland 
and epson premium semigloss, but what does that actually mean in terms 
of years? The Epson papers have a really long rating like 200 
years.....so would the ilford papers last 50 years?

I have some work coming up that needs to be 8x10 (Kirkland) and also 
some bigger prints. I am think of doing them on ilford, instead of 
semi-matte,  just because of the speed, and slighly better image 
quality. As long as they will last a reasonable amount of time. As far 
as I can find, the test sites have not tested this paper with Carbon 
inks, so you cant tell if they are rating the paper, or the inks.

Thanks for any info! Doug M

Douglas meeuwsen wrote:

> hello, I am on a quest to get my BW prints to be like what I remember
> our old darkroom prints  looking and feeling like (it's been almost
> thirty years since!)
>
IMHO, you can't make inkjet prints look like darkroom prints, nor should 
you try. Inkjet is an entirely new media, and has its own look, and its 
own strengths and weaknesses. In that respect, it's no different, no 
better, than platinum, albumen, silver gelatin, salt, cyanotype, or any 
of the other alternative ways to make a print.

Silver gelatin prints excel at the 
air-dried-glossy-fiber-print-high-Dmax look. Inkjet prints excel at the 
smooth-linear-even-tonality-matte-paper look.

If you want the darkroom look, head for the darkroom.
--
Bruce Watson

not really true what you said below.....with glop and ut2, and kirkland 
paper, they stand right up. I think they can do both looks. Plus, who 
really wants to head to the darkroom? If you do this as a hobby, you 
dont want to be shut off from the family for hours talking thru the 
door. I do like the matte paper look, but only when it's under glass. 
Sometimes there is nothing cooler that a photo stuck to the wall with a 
thumb tack...... That would be an old fashioned glossy print.
I do appreciate the point you made though. I know there is a huge 
school of thought that goes your way. Take care, Doug M
On May 4, 2005, at 2:34 PM, hogarth@... wrote:

>  Silver gelatin prints excel at the
>  air-dried-glossy-fiber-print-high-Dmax look. Inkjet prints excel at 
> the
>  smooth-linear-even-tonality-matte-paper look.
>
>  If you want the darkroom look, head for the darkroom.
>  --
>  Bruce Watson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi Doug,
  I haven't had a chance to try the Kirkland yet - sounds like I need to. 
I am curious what is not right with the image on semimatte. This is the
paper that Paul Roark and Bill Atkinson seem to like the best. 
My experience is with Luster (similar to the Ilford pearl) and I agree it
is just too plasticy.
best,
Costa

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen 
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:

> hello, I am on a quest to get my BW prints to be like what I remember 
> our old darkroom prints  looking and feeling like (it's been almost 
> thirty years since!)
> 
> any way, That to me means slightly glossy print that does not feel like 
> plastic. I use paul roarks curves with my 1280 and ut2/glop inks.
> 
> Results with kirkland are great, and not "computery" but only up to 
> letter size. Epson prem semi-gloss is good if I use print sheild spray, 
> but not quite the right surface. Premium glossy is too glossy. Epson 
> premium semi-matte is exactly the right surface, But the image quality 
> is not up to kirkland, and in order to get a good print I have to go to 
> 2880. Then, the dark areas are a little more glossy than the midtones. 
> I Think i can fix that by adjusting the glop curve, no biggie. The 2880 
> setting is Soooooo slow...
> 
> So now I just remembered that i have a whole box of ilford smooth pearl 
> 13x19 sitting here, also have some in letter size. WOW, the image 
> quality is as good as kirkland, and with glop, there is a perfectly 
> bronzing-free finish. Still feels too much like plastic, and the pearl 
> surface can be reflective, but the result is really nice and not 
> "computery"
> 
> "computery" is my new term for prints that make people say "did you do 
> this on computer or something?" I hate it when they do that
> 
> So now my main question:
> I know that ilford smooth papers are not acid buffered like kirkland 
> and epson premium semigloss, but what does that actually mean in terms 
> of years? The Epson papers have a really long rating like 200 
> years.....so would the ilford papers last 50 years?
> 
> I have some work coming up that needs to be 8x10 (Kirkland) and also 
> some bigger prints. I am think of doing them on ilford, instead of 
> semi-matte,  just because of the speed, and slighly better image 
> quality. As long as they will last a reasonable amount of time. As far 
> as I can find, the test sites have not tested this paper with Carbon 
> inks, so you cant tell if they are rating the paper, or the inks.
> 
> Thanks for any info! Doug M

well, I am usuing glop, and I like it, but with semi-matte, I am 
getting some gloss diferential. Not really bronzing. Right now am 
adjusting the glop curve so that it goes down into the shadow more. 
Looks to me like pauls glop curve for semi is the same as it is for 
kirkland, and that is not quite right. On semi matte, the shadow get 
really glossy, whereas on kirkland they have a real nice satin sheen. 
Then in the highlights, the kirkland base paper is more glossy than the 
ink, but the semi base paper is way more dull than the ink.  I think I 
have that licked. now the only probblem is the slow speed of 2880, and 
then there is still this weird banding that does not show up at 1440. 
At 1440, the 3rd 4th and 5th blocks from the dark end (21step scale) 
are pretty grainy like a Black only print. 2880 fixes that, but makes 
subtle banding. The banding is maybe something else, and I just 
switched to clear carts....so....that may be part of it. If Its just 
the gloss thing, I think i have it down by laying down a little broader 
swath of glop. Glop works great....I have a gig tonight, so I'm about 
done for today......keep you posted. If this works out, semi matte is a 
little duller than kirkland with glop. ( the glop actually dulls the 
gloss a bit, so they end up almost the same look....Doug M
On May 4, 2005, at 4:38 PM, ccolbertbw wrote:

> hi Doug,
>  � I haven't had a chance to try the Kirkland yet - sounds like I need 
> to.
>  I am curious what is not right with the image on semimatte. This is 
> the
>  paper that Paul Roark and Bill Atkinson seem to like the best.
>  My experience is with Luster (similar to the Ilford pearl) and I 
> agree it
>  is just too plasticy.
>  best,
>  Costa
>
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen
>  <lipshurt@m...> wrote:
>  > hello, I am on a quest to get my BW prints to be like what I 
> remember
>  > our old darkroom prints� looking and feeling like (it's been almost
>  > thirty years since!)
>  >
>  > any way, That to me means slightly glossy print that does not feel 
> like
>  > plastic. I use paul roarks curves with my 1280 and ut2/glop inks.
>  >
>  > Results with kirkland are great, and not "computery" but only up to
>  > letter size. Epson prem semi-gloss is good if I use print sheild 
> spray,
>  > but not quite the right surface. Premium glossy is too glossy. Epson
>  > premium semi-matte is exactly the right surface, But the image 
> quality
>  > is not up to kirkland, and in order to get a good print I have to 
> go to
>  > 2880. Then, the dark areas are a little more glossy than the 
> midtones.
>  > I Think i can fix that by adjusting the glop curve, no biggie. The 
> 2880
>  > setting is Soooooo slow...
>  >
>  > So now I just remembered that i have a whole box of ilford smooth 
> pearl
>  > 13x19 sitting here, also have some in letter size. WOW, the image
>  > quality is as good as kirkland, and with glop, there is a perfectly
>  > bronzing-free finish. Still feels too much like plastic, and the 
> pearl
>  > surface can be reflective, but the result is really nice and not
>  > "computery"
>  >
>  > "computery" is my new term for prints that make people say "did you 
> do
>  > this on computer or something?" I hate it when they do that
>  >
>  > So now my main question:
>  > I know that ilford smooth papers are not acid buffered like kirkland
>  > and epson premium semigloss, but what does that actually mean in 
> terms
>  > of years? The Epson papers have a really long rating like 200
>  > years.....so would the ilford papers last 50 years?
>  >
>  > I have some work coming up that needs to be 8x10 (Kirkland) and also
>  > some bigger prints. I am think of doing them on ilford, instead of
>  > semi-matte,� just because of the speed, and slighly better image
>  > quality. As long as they will last a reasonable amount of time. As 
> far
>  > as I can find, the test sites have not tested this paper with Carbon
>  > inks, so you cant tell if they are rating the paper, or the inks.
>  >
>  > Thanks for any info! Doug M
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> keep them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
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> Files section:
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>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� 
> AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Clarification:
What I meant to say was that even though the kirkland is glossier than 
the semi matte, the glop evens it out and makes them pretty close to 
the same. I have found that using the media setting "glossy film" 
removes the grain fro the shadows, but then the contrast curve is a 
little flat in the midtones....more testing. I am a trial and error 
kind of guy, as long as I have time.....

On May 4, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Douglas meeuwsen wrote:

> well, I am usuing glop, and I like it, but with semi-matte, I am
> getting some gloss diferential. Not really bronzing. Right now am
> adjusting the glop curve so that it goes down into the shadow more.
> Looks to me like pauls glop curve for semi is the same as it is for
> kirkland, and that is not quite right. On semi matte, the shadow get
> really glossy, whereas on kirkland they have a real nice satin sheen.
> Then in the highlights, the kirkland base paper is more glossy than the
> ink, but the semi base paper is way more dull than the ink.  I think I
> have that licked. now the only probblem is the slow speed of 2880, and
> then there is still this weird banding that does not show up at 1440.
> At 1440, the 3rd 4th and 5th blocks from the dark end (21step scale)
> are pretty grainy like a Black only print. 2880 fixes that, but makes
> subtle banding. The banding is maybe something else, and I just
> switched to clear carts....so....that may be part of it. If Its just
> the gloss thing, I think i have it down by laying down a little broader
> swath of glop. Glop works great....I have a gig tonight, so I'm about
> done for today......keep you posted. If this works out, semi matte is a
> little duller than kirkland with glop. ( the glop actually dulls the
> gloss a bit, so they end up almost the same look....Doug M
> On May 4, 2005, at 4:38 PM, ccolbertbw wrote:
>
>> hi Doug,
>>    I haven't had a chance to try the Kirkland yet - sounds like I need
>> to.
>>  I am curious what is not right with the image on semimatte. This is
>> the
>>  paper that Paul Roark and Bill Atkinson seem to like the best.
>>  My experience is with Luster (similar to the Ilford pearl) and I
>> agree it
>>  is just too plasticy.
>>  best,
>>  Costa
>>
>>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen
>>  <lipshurt@m...> wrote:
>>> hello, I am on a quest to get my BW prints to be like what I
>> remember
>>> our old darkroom prints  looking and feeling like (it's been almost
>>> thirty years since!)
>>>
>>> any way, That to me means slightly glossy print that does not feel
>> like
>>> plastic. I use paul roarks curves with my 1280 and ut2/glop inks.
>>>
>>> Results with kirkland are great, and not "computery" but only up to
>>> letter size. Epson prem semi-gloss is good if I use print sheild
>> spray,
>>> but not quite the right surface. Premium glossy is too glossy. Epson
>>> premium semi-matte is exactly the right surface, But the image
>> quality
>>> is not up to kirkland, and in order to get a good print I have to
>> go to
>>> 2880. Then, the dark areas are a little more glossy than the
>> midtones.
>>> I Think i can fix that by adjusting the glop curve, no biggie. The
>> 2880
>>> setting is Soooooo slow...
>>>
>>> So now I just remembered that i have a whole box of ilford smooth
>> pearl
>>> 13x19 sitting here, also have some in letter size. WOW, the image
>>> quality is as good as kirkland, and with glop, there is a perfectly
>>> bronzing-free finish. Still feels too much like plastic, and the
>> pearl
>>> surface can be reflective, but the result is really nice and not
>>> "computery"
>>>
>>> "computery" is my new term for prints that make people say "did you
>> do
>>> this on computer or something?" I hate it when they do that
>>>
>>> So now my main question:
>>> I know that ilford smooth papers are not acid buffered like kirkland
>>> and epson premium semigloss, but what does that actually mean in
>> terms
>>> of years? The Epson papers have a really long rating like 200
>>> years.....so would the ilford papers last 50 years?
>>>
>>> I have some work coming up that needs to be 8x10 (Kirkland) and also
>>> some bigger prints. I am think of doing them on ilford, instead of
>>> semi-matte,  just because of the speed, and slighly better image
>>> quality. As long as they will last a reasonable amount of time. As
>> far
>>> as I can find, the test sites have not tested this paper with Carbon
>>> inks, so you cant tell if they are rating the paper, or the inks.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info! Doug M
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
>> this same page.
>>
>>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
>> keep them short.
>>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
>> the membership without notice.
>>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>> removed from the membership.
>>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
>> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the
>> Files section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER”
>> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
>> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
>> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
>> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
>> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
>> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
>> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
>> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> 	• 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>>  
>> 	• 	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>  
>> 	• 	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service.
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
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Doug,

> ... I am on a quest to get my BW prints to be like what I remember
> our old darkroom prints  looking and feeling like ...
> I use paul roarks curves with my 1280 and ut2/glop inks.
> 
> Results with kirkland are great ...
> Epson prem semi-gloss is good if I use print sheild spray,
> but not quite the right surface...

Sorry I never did get to the PSM in the 1280.  I'm not sure when I will
given your report.  It sounds like it's not doing as well as the Kirkland.
I'm not surprised.  I always spray my PSM prints.



> So now I just remembered that i have a whole box of ilford smooth pearl
> 13x19 sitting here, also have some in letter size. WOW, the image
> quality is as good as kirkland, and with glop, there is a perfectly
> bronzing-free finish. ...

> So now my main question:
> I know that ilford smooth papers are not acid buffered like kirkland
> and epson premium semigloss, but what does that actually mean in terms
> of years? The Epson papers have a really long rating like 200
> years.....so would the ilford papers last 50 years?

I've read something where they rated them at 30 years.

I'd wait a couple of days and look again at the Ilford prints.  Maybe it's
just me, but I had the impression some of the bronzing came back.  In
general, my impression is that Glop is only 100% successful with Kirkland.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks paul....Does this mean that the UT2/glop curves that you have 
were made for the 4000? Or some printer other that the 1280? If yes, 
then I will have a go at getting a curve set that works. I think it 
will be easy. I have already determined that using the media setting 
"glossy film" (same as kirkland BTW) completely eliminates the need to 
use 2880. The only problem is that the contrast is low, which a curve 
adjustment will fix. I do not have a colorimeter, so I will be going by 
eyeball. I think I can simply modify the PSM curve that you made, and 
get more contrast, and still keep the relationship of the two colors 
about the same. Does that seem about right, or are the relationships 
more complicated than that? I already have a glop curve that seems to 
fix the gloss diferential/Bronzing issue. I have the afternoon off 
again, so wish me luck. Thanks for the help once again, Doug M
On May 4, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

>  Sorry I never did get to the PSM in the 1280.  I'm not sure when I 
> will
>  given your report.  It sounds like it's not doing as well as the 
> Kirkland.
>  I'm not surprised.  I always spray my PSM prints.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A couple of people have told me they are interested in my experiments, 
so here goes: (remember that I know nothing, and simply do trial and 
error!)

Actually I think I have it dialed in, and it was pretty easy. I ended 
up printing maybe 25 test strips.

Early on I figured out that media = "glossy film" made a much smoother 
print than media = "photo paper" or any other setting in the 1280 
driver.
So that meant that I did not have to use 2880.

At first I was starting with the Curve (epson 4000?) from pauls website.

I gave up on that curve because of contrast, and shadow detail 
problems. Could not get a smooth 21 step strip.

Then I tried the ilford curve as a starting place. almost pretty good. 
Too cool, and too light in the shadows. Darkened the green curve a few 
tries, and boom. A test strip as nice as pauls curve on kirkland paper. 
(my basic benchmark)

I made a whole new glop curve that sends more glop down in the shadows, 
and not so much in the high mids, and more at the brightest highs.

I ended up with a print just as good as kirkland on semi-matte, with no 
bronzing. It is either more cool or more neutral. The kirkland print is 
a little warmer. I cant tell which is neutral. The semi-matte print is 
not as cool as the kirkland cool curve. The test print is a high 
contrast scene of a creek under a canopy of trees. Lots of shadows and 
highlights to deal with. It really has great blacks, just like 
kirkland. The smoothness is better than using 2880 with the photo paper 
setting.


Now I am going to try and make a carbon curve for the semi-matte.

If anybody want to try it, I can send you the curve.

Pretty nice way to spend a rainy day afternoon on my half-day off. Take 
care, Doug M