Digital BW, The Print

>So I vented about the UT7 carts the other day.  So of course
I bought
>more as I have a UT7 carbon print job to complete.
>
>The order arrived today.  Same problem.  The 2200 won't read
the UT7
>cyan cart.  That makes 3 new out of the box carts that won't
read.  It
>read the one that went empty though.
>
>It gets better.  Now it won't read an Epson cyan cart either.
 So I am
>dead.  Can't even do BO prints with the cyan reading empty.
>
>I emailed MIS but what can they do, send more carts.  I've
rebooted,
>shimmed, pulled power and all cables to the printer.  I've tried
>everything MIS ever told me to do.
>
>Anyone here have any ideas?
>

If you have a chip resetter you can reset the chips that the
printer will read and use them to replace the ones it won't.
Kind of a long way around but it might get you going. You can
also use an Epson chip as long as it;s the same position. I
heard not long ago that 20-30% of these replacement chips fail

Regards, Walt

http://www.kauaiphotos.biz

In the minutes that passed since my last post the printer now says
that even a new, or old epson OE cyan cart is empty.

Everything is empty in that position.  I'm waiting to hear from MIS
and I'm calling Epson.

As for moving chips around I've heard of it but at this point I no
longer have the MIS chip that worked and nothing seems to work anyway.

The last thing I need to do right now is buy a printer.

Anyone tried the OE epson BW prints in the new 2400?

Have you looked in the chamber the cartridge goes in to make sure the 
small metal fingers that contact the chip in the proper place isn't 
bent or offside in any way. Since it's the same cartridge, I'd suspect 
something along those lines.


Your friend in Photography,

Johnny


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "neilsphoto" 
<neilsphoto@y...> wrote:

> In the minutes that passed since my last post the printer now says
> that even a new, or old epson OE cyan cart is empty.
> 
> Everything is empty in that position.  I'm waiting to hear from MIS
> and I'm calling Epson.
> 
> As for moving chips around I've heard of it but at this point I no
> longer have the MIS chip that worked and nothing seems to work anyway.
> 
> The last thing I need to do right now is buy a printer.
> 
> Anyone tried the OE epson BW prints in the new 2400?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades"
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
> Have you looked in the chamber the cartridge goes in to make sure the 
> small metal fingers that contact the chip in the proper place isn't 
> bent or offside in any way. Since it's the same cartridge, I'd suspect 
> something along those lines.
> 
> 
> Your friend in Photography,
> 
> Johnny


Every contact looks perfect.  They are all in the same line or even
and straight.  Nothing bent that I can see.

I called Epson, tried what they said which was what I had already
tried.  So since I'm out of warranty for $9.95 they told me where to
get it serviced.

So I'll get it fixed and hope the price isn't stupid.  Epson has
refurbed 2200's if it comes to that.  1280s are still out there new.

The 2400 looks good but does it do BO?  I've been reading here that it
doesn't seem to and who kows how well the OE 3 ink BW prints are .

I'll take this thread of topic sort of.   I love BO prints.  UT7
gives/gave me a color option but since I scan film, TX and TMZ 3200
the differences in BO and UT7 to me aren't all that great.

I just started shooting with a D70.  Now the difference in a BO and a
UT7 print from a source where grain never existed is very much more
obvious.

I like BO, clients like UT7.  BO is Rodinal 1:50, UT7 is Microdal
undiluted on Plus-X.  Never liked the latter.

>
>The 2400 looks good but does it do BO?  I've been reading
here that it
>doesn't seem to and who kows how well the OE 3 ink BW prints
are .
>
>I'll take this thread of topic sort of.   I love BO prints.  UT7
>gives/gave me a color option but since I scan film, TX and
TMZ 3200
>the differences in BO and UT7 to me aren't all that great.
>
>I just started shooting with a D70.  Now the difference in a
BO and a
>UT7 print from a source where grain never existed is very
much more
>obvious.
>
>I like BO, clients like UT7.  BO is Rodinal 1:50, UT7 is Microdal
>undiluted on Plus-X.  Never liked the latter.

The reports I've read on the 4800, which is the 2400's big
brother, seem to say that the B&W prints are stunning. You
also have the advantage of fine tuning the color from cool to
warm and sepia and just about anywhere in between so you might
want to look into the 2400 further. The price is around the
same as a 2200 refurb. I had a similar problem as yours on my
7600 and one of the pins that contact the chip was broken on
the backside. Fortunately I had a week left on my warranty

> The reports I've read on the 4800, which is the 2400's big
> brother, seem to say that the B&W prints are stunning. You
> also have the advantage of fine tuning the color from cool to
> warm and sepia and just about anywhere in between so you might
> want to look into the 2400 further. The price is around the
> same as a 2200 refurb. I had a similar problem as yours on my
> 7600 and one of the pins that contact the chip was broken on
> the backside. Fortunately I had a week left on my warranty



A refurb 2200 is $550, a 2400 $850.   I'll get my 2200 in for repair
ASAP.  

Do we yet know if there is a BO option on the 2400?   Given the really
spotty quality of the UT7 carts if I can get the quality of UT7 with
OE carts I'd really consider a 2400.  It is a shame as the UT7s are
really nice. 

MIS told me they use the refillable (cheap) carts because many users
like to refill there own carts.   I have so little time to print tha
when a cart is low I just want to put in another and not have to deal
with syringes and air bubbles I've read about here on refills.

Neil

2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?

Woody Spedden

--- Walt Mucha <wkm@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
>
>The 2400 looks good but does it do BO?  I've been
reading
here that it
>doesn't seem to and who kows how well the OE 3 ink BW
prints
are .
>
>I'll take this thread of topic sort of.   I love BO
prints.  UT7
>gives/gave me a color option but since I scan film,
TX and
TMZ 3200
>the differences in BO and UT7 to me aren't all that
great.
>
>I just started shooting with a D70.  Now the
difference in a
BO and a
>UT7 print from a source where grain never existed is
very
much more
>obvious.
>
>I like BO, clients like UT7.  BO is Rodinal 1:50, UT7
is Microdal
>undiluted on Plus-X.  Never liked the latter.

The reports I've read on the 4800, which is the 2400's
big
brother, seem to say that the B&W prints are stunning.
You
also have the advantage of fine tuning the color from
cool to
warm and sepia and just about anywhere in between so
you might
want to look into the 2400 further. The price is
around the
same as a 2200 refurb. I had a similar problem as
yours on my
7600 and one of the pins that contact the chip was
broken on
the backside. Fortunately I had a week left on my
warranty


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I have a 2400, and as far as I can tell there is no BO option on the driver.
But I do like the prints.

Gary

www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "neilsphoto" <neilsphoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 says "no ink here" but there is!



> The reports I've read on the 4800, which is the 2400's big
> brother, seem to say that the B&W prints are stunning. You
> also have the advantage of fine tuning the color from cool to
> warm and sepia and just about anywhere in between so you might
> want to look into the 2400 further. The price is around the
> same as a 2200 refurb. I had a similar problem as yours on my
> 7600 and one of the pins that contact the chip was broken on
> the backside. Fortunately I had a week left on my warranty



A refurb 2200 is $550, a 2400 $850.   I'll get my 2200 in for repair
ASAP.

Do we yet know if there is a BO option on the 2400?   Given the really
spotty quality of the UT7 carts if I can get the quality of UT7 with
OE carts I'd really consider a 2400.  It is a shame as the UT7s are
really nice.

MIS told me they use the refillable (cheap) carts because many users
like to refill there own carts.   I have so little time to print tha
when a cart is low I just want to put in another and not have to deal
with syringes and air bubbles I've read about here on refills.

Neil




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>2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?
>
>Woody Spedden
>

Why would you want to do black only when you have 1 black and
2 gray inks, not to mention light cyan,light magenta and
yellow for infinate toning if desired. Am I missing something?

Regards, Walt

http://www.kauaiphotos.biz

Hello Walt,

>>2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?

>Why would you want to do black only when you have 1 black and
>2 gray inks, not to mention light cyan,light magenta and
>yellow for infinate toning if desired. Am I missing something?

Yes.  BO printing, especially using Eboni, has some unique qualities
that a lot of people like very much (if you would like to know more
about it there is detailed info at the web link below).  Please note
that BO users never claim it is "better" than other systems, so please
let's not turn this thread into a BO debate (everything that could be
said on either side has been said and laid to rest over two years
ago [The Great BO Debate]).  It's just one of many options and lots of
people like it (and are dismayed that Epson's newer printers don't
have it any more).

With the apparent demise of BO creeping in, a number of people are
working on a 2 black ink only approach (2BO?) using QTR that shows
much promise.  It is smoother but still preserves many of BO's
qualities.  Some obstacles are still being worked out, but we have
good hopes for it.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Walt,
> 
> >>2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?
> 
> >Why would you want to do black only when you have 1 black and
> >2 gray inks, not to mention light cyan,light magenta and
> >yellow for infinate toning if desired. Am I missing something?
> 
> Yes.  BO printing, especially using Eboni, has some unique qualities
> that a lot of people like very much 


Exactly what Clayton said.   The UT7 prints from my D70 files are too
smooth and too clean. I know that makes no sense to some people.  

I like grain, I like Rodinal.  I like some kind of character.  BO has
something.  If I am going to be shooting more digital than I am TX
then I'd really want my printer to let me print BO if I wanted.

Neil

Yes.  As Epson UK said to me yesterday they are striving for a quality
greyscale that is smooth.  "99% of comments" they receive regarding the B&W
output of their printers is pushing "for more greys in the greyscale not
less".  The request for BO is rare and "flies in the face of the other
demands".  If you want it then call or write to Epson - the feedback they
are getting is pointing then in an entirely different direction.  I don't
expect ANY new photo printer supplied by them to support it from here on
unless you guys speak up.  But if you like the look then you call always use
a RIP to achieve it - it just won't be in the Epson driver.

> From: Elwood Spedden <elwood@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2200 says "no ink here" but there is!
> 
> 2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?
> 
> Woody Spedden
>

Woody,

You're clearly stuck in the Dark Ages where printers only had one black ink 
for printing text. ;)

Now with specialised Photo printers we have multiple blacks and multiple 
toning inks to produce excellent monochrome images in any hue you choose. 
You can either go the Paul Roark/MIS route with them, or now the Epson route 
with the R2400/4800/etc.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elwood Spedden" <elwood@...>


> 2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?

I think the real point here is that Epson has taken
away our choice to print BO with the 2400. Whether you
find BO worthwhile is up to your personal tastes.
Since Epson included BO in the 4800 (and I assume the
7800) taking it out of the 2400 makes no sense to me.

Woody Spedden

--- neilsphoto <neilsphoto@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Walt,
> 
> >>2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe
this?
> 
> >Why would you want to do black only when you have 1
black and
> >2 gray inks, not to mention light cyan,light
magenta and
> >yellow for infinate toning if desired. Am I missing
something?
> 
> Yes.  BO printing, especially using Eboni, has some
unique qualities
> that a lot of people like very much 


Exactly what Clayton said.   The UT7 prints from my
D70 files are too
smooth and too clean. I know that makes no sense to
some people.  

I like grain, I like Rodinal.  I like some kind of
character.  BO has
something.  If I am going to be shooting more digital
than I am TX
then I'd really want my printer to let me print BO if
I wanted.

Neil




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---------------------------------

<Since Epson included BO in the 4800 (and I assume the
> 7800) taking it out of the 2400 makes no sense to me.>

My understanding is that the 4800 only has BO as an option for printing 
on plain paper, like for text.

Can someone with a 4800 confirm this?



Scott

Neil-

There's always the PS Filters>Add Noise>Grain approach.  I scan from 
Tri-X 35mm negatives so I don't need to do this and the 2400 prints 
look really excellent--better than anything I did on silver in 30+ 
years of darkroom work.  Just my 2 cents.  

Walt




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "neilsphoto" 
<neilsphoto@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
> <cj@c...> wrote:
> > Hello Walt,
> > 
> > >>2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?
> > 
> > >Why would you want to do black only when you have 1 black and
> > >2 gray inks, not to mention light cyan,light magenta and
> > >yellow for infinate toning if desired. Am I missing something?
> > 
> > Yes.  BO printing, especially using Eboni, has some unique 
qualities
> > that a lot of people like very much 
> 
> 
> Exactly what Clayton said.   The UT7 prints from my D70 files are 
too
> smooth and too clean. I know that makes no sense to some people.  
> 
> I like grain, I like Rodinal.  I like some kind of character.  BO 
has

> something.  If I am going to be shooting more digital than I am TX
> then I'd really want my printer to let me print BO if I wanted.
> 
> Neil

As was discussed here yesterday there is no BO on the 4800.  BO from Epson
is dying fast unless those who love it protest to Epson.  Else you will have
to use a RIP to drive just one ink.

> From: Elwood Spedden <elwood@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is - BO?
> 
> I think the real point here is that Epson has taken
> away our choice to print BO with the 2400. Whether you
> find BO worthwhile is up to your personal tastes.
> Since Epson included BO in the 4800 (and I assume the
> 7800) taking it out of the 2400 makes no sense to me.
> 
> Woody Spedden

Yes that is correct.  Max 720dpi.

> From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:43:33 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is - BO?
> 
> <Since Epson included BO in the 4800 (and I assume the
>> 7800) taking it out of the 2400 makes no sense to me.>
> 
> My understanding is that the 4800 only has BO as an option for printing
> on plain paper, like for text.
> 
> Can someone with a 4800 confirm this?
> 
> 
> 
> Scott

Whoops...2200/4000 with OEM pigs do beautiful Black Only, with no
sacrifice at all Vs non-OEM inks...unless you demand a particular
black flavor...which doesn't compute IMO if you're using non-whitened
paper. 

Granted, some of us insist on the path less traveled for its own sake,
struggling with occasional quality control issues, or buying new
printers before they're proven in the field :-) 

When I buy 4800 (or whatever follows shortly) maybe I'll dedicate my
2200 to MIS :-)

Djon



> You can either go the Paul Roark/MIS route with them, or now the
Epson route 

> with the R2400/4800/etc.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Elwood Spedden" <elwood@w...>
> 
> 
> > 2400 definitely does not do BO. Can you believe this?

Woody,

I don't think it was in the R2400's predecessor either - I don't think my 
2100 had BO; not sure about the 2000, so it might never have been in this 
series of printers.

As regards the 4800, I think Steve Kale said a few posts ago after talking 
to Epson, that it was only available in the 4800 if you selected plain paper 
and 720dpi, not with photo papers or higher resolutions.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Elwood Spedden" <elwood@...>


>I think the real point here is that Epson has taken
> away our choice to print BO with the 2400. Whether you
> find BO worthwhile is up to your personal tastes.
> Since Epson included BO in the 4800 (and I assume the
> 7800) taking it out of the 2400 makes no sense to me.

>
>Exactly what Clayton said.   The UT7 prints from my D70 files
are too
>smooth and too clean. I know that makes no sense to some
people.  
>
>I like grain, I like Rodinal.  I like some kind of character.
 BO has
>something.  If I am going to be shooting more digital than I
am TX
>then I'd really want my printer to let me print BO if I wanted.


As I said in my response to Clayton it's a personel preference
issue and I'm not going to debate that.

Regards, Walt

http://www.kauaiphotos.biz

Bob

The 2200 I have definitely has BO as a simple check
off in the driver as does the 7600. While the BO is
warmer (even using Eboni Ink)than neutral gray, it has
a wonderful quality about it which is great for a
class of images. I don't use it for every image but
when I need it........wow. I would hate to be without
it.

Thanks
Woody

--- Bob Frost <bob@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Woody,

I don't think it was in the R2400's predecessor either
- I don't think my 
2100 had BO; not sure about the 2000, so it might
never have been in this 
series of printers.

As regards the 4800, I think Steve Kale said a few
posts ago after talking 
to Epson, that it was only available in the 4800 if
you selected plain paper 
and 720dpi, not with photo papers or higher
resolutions.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elwood Spedden" <elwood@...>


>I think the real point here is that Epson has taken
> away our choice to print BO with the 2400. Whether
you
> find BO worthwhile is up to your personal tastes.
> Since Epson included BO in the 4800 (and I assume
the
> 7800) taking it out of the 2400 makes no sense to
me.



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There is no BO available in the 2100 driver when printing to photo media. BO
is definitely being phased out by Epson - they are not hearing any reason to
change their present course.....

> From: Elwood Spedden <elwood@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is - BO?
> 
> Bob
> 
> The 2200 I have definitely has BO as a simple check
> off in the driver as does the 7600. While the BO is
> warmer (even using Eboni Ink)than neutral gray, it has
> a wonderful quality about it which is great for a
> class of images. I don't use it for every image but
> when I need it........wow. I would hate to be without
> it.
> 
> Thanks
> Woody
>

So right now my 2200 does nothing, no BO, no UT7 and no color. 
Without it seeing any cyan cart it is a stone.

So I called the repair place Epson said was in my area.  I'm in SW CT,
the repair place is in Yonkers NY.  I called and said I had a 2200
that needed repair.  He said OK, that'll be $119 bux.  I paused and
asked if he wanted to know what was wrong with it.  He said OK.  I
told him and he said OK, $119 with a $40 deposit when I drop it off. 
????  Weird and kind of funny.  I hope he's right.

So when it is fixed do I dare reinstall UT7 carts?  I shouldn't but I
know I will.

Neil

I routinely print B-O using 2200 and Epson driver with OEM
pigments...looks GREAT, readily better than silver paper from small
format negs. Sometimes QTR driver is more appropriate, but only if I'm
trying to emulate large-format images using 35mm...which isn't my main
thing.  

The absence of B-O on the 2400/4800 is alone reason to hesitate
purchase. 2200 and 4000 are built for the ages so maybe the best bet
is to see what follows 2400/4800...and surely HP will soon get it
together better than the Designjet 130.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> There is no BO available in the 2100 driver when printing to photo
media. BO
> is definitely being phased out by Epson - they are not hearing any
reason to
> change their present course.....
> 
> 
> > From: Elwood Spedden <elwood@w...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is
- BO?

> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > The 2200 I have definitely has BO as a simple check
> > off in the driver as does the 7600. While the BO is
> > warmer (even using Eboni Ink)than neutral gray, it has
> > a wonderful quality about it which is great for a
> > class of images. I don't use it for every image but
> > when I need it........wow. I would hate to be without
> > it.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Woody
> >

Your "best bet" is to make yourself heard at Epson.  I have no doubt that
without substantial feedback black only will not be available on any future
Epson printer with more than one shade of K...

> From: Djon <westsidemaurice@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:24:13 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is - BO?
> 
> I routinely print B-O using 2200 and Epson driver with OEM
> pigments...looks GREAT, readily better than silver paper from small
> format negs. Sometimes QTR driver is more appropriate, but only if I'm
> trying to emulate large-format images using 35mm...which isn't my main
> thing.  
> 
> The absence of B-O on the 2400/4800 is alone reason to hesitate
> purchase. 2200 and 4000 are built for the ages so maybe the best bet
> is to see what follows 2400/4800...and surely HP will soon get it
> together better than the Designjet 130.

Epson's biz is machinery, pigment, and paper. They'd be nuts to worry
about Black Only enthusiasts...they don't need us. Epson's pig costs
surely aren't a concern to 90% of the users, which is why they're
overjoyed to introduce systems with extra carts. Look at all the SUVs
we drive :-)

HP only makes $$ on printers and paper, the machine's tight with ink.
On the other hand, there's no paper versatility (I think), so that's
their $$ game. And the black may beat everybody else...
And the machine's cheaper, not that we care... :-)

That's the comparison I'd like to see: 4800 Vs Designjet 130 in B&W.





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Your "best bet" is to make yourself heard at Epson.  I have no doubt
that
> without substantial feedback black only will not be available on any
future

> Epson printer with more than one shade of K...
> 
> 
> > From: Djon <westsidemaurice@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:24:13 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is - BO?
> > 
> > I routinely print B-O using 2200 and Epson driver with OEM
> > pigments...looks GREAT, readily better than silver paper from small
> > format negs. Sometimes QTR driver is more appropriate, but only if I'm
> > trying to emulate large-format images using 35mm...which isn't my main
> > thing.  
> > 
> > The absence of B-O on the 2400/4800 is alone reason to hesitate
> > purchase. 2200 and 4000 are built for the ages so maybe the best bet
> > is to see what follows 2400/4800...and surely HP will soon get it
> > together better than the Designjet 130.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon" 
<westsidemaurice@y...> wrote:
>> 
> That's the comparison I'd like to see: 4800 Vs Designjet 130 in B&W.
> 
> 
> 


I second that. Both black only and "full color" mode from the HP.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Your "best bet" is to make yourself heard at Epson.  I have no 
doubt that
> without substantial feedback black only will not be available on 
any future
> Epson printer with more than one shade of K...


Maybe I missed something in the discussion but near as I can tell 
from QTR for the 2200 it is very easily to set up a simple black-
only curve with no light gray ink and no toning. Just go to curve 
creation and set black to "gray ink" at 100% and set everything else 
to "not used" save that as "BO" and call it up as the curve.  Seemed 
pretty simple to me.  Even when I didn't linearize the printer it 
printed a pretty fair gray ramp with only the one ink.   Surely that 
will be available on future QTR versions for the 4800 et. al.  So 
while it does seem strange to me that Epson would can the BO mode in 
its drivers I don't see why this would be all that huge an issue for 
us special purpose users.  Why wouldn't one just use QTR for BO 
mode?  Cheap enough.  

I suspect there are not enough BO users in the entire world to make 
any statistically significant difference in Epson sales no matter 
how much fuss they make. 

Dan

I wonder how many black only users will want to go through the hassle of
learning QTR to simply drive one black ink?  I suspect that a key advantage
for many will be gone - simplicity.  I am sure that there will be some that
will go to the extra trouble to keep the "look" but I doubt most will. I
agree with the statistically insignificant numbers but suspect that their
only hope of having Epson preserve their workflow is by telling Epson and
not just venting here.

> From: Danny Culbertson <danculb@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:14:21 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2200 says "no ink here" but there is - BO?
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> Your "best bet" is to make yourself heard at Epson.  I have no
> doubt that
>> without substantial feedback black only will not be available on
> any future
>> Epson printer with more than one shade of K...
> 
> 
> Maybe I missed something in the discussion but near as I can tell
> from QTR for the 2200 it is very easily to set up a simple black-
> only curve with no light gray ink and no toning. Just go to curve
> creation and set black to "gray ink" at 100% and set everything else
> to "not used" save that as "BO" and call it up as the curve.  Seemed
> pretty simple to me.  Even when I didn't linearize the printer it
> printed a pretty fair gray ramp with only the one ink.   Surely that
> will be available on future QTR versions for the 4800 et. al.  So
> while it does seem strange to me that Epson would can the BO mode in
> its drivers I don't see why this would be all that huge an issue for
> us special purpose users.  Why wouldn't one just use QTR for BO
> mode?  Cheap enough.
> 
> I suspect there are not enough BO users in the entire world to make
> any statistically significant difference in Epson sales no matter
> how much fuss they make.
> 
> Dan