Digital BW, The Print

Hi Eric:
I like your reasoning and you're absolutely right about the appearance of 
Seurat paintings --- very "dotty." But I don't think he ever made any black 
and white paintings, did he? I've only seen colored Seurats. And with modern 
inkjets, we don't see any "Seurat-like" dots --- the colors all flow 
together (inspite of what dye-sub diehards say), so I guess I would call a 
color inkjet "Monet-giclee" or maybe (depending on color saturation, of 
course) "Renoir-giclee."
Regards,
Bert

katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Vogel" <evogel@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Black Only Printing


I should have thought that the prints made from the colored pigments
would better be called Seurat-like. If you have never seen a Seurat
painting "in the flesh" you are in for what looks to be a giant
giclee (with well-pigmented paint).

At 10:46 PM 8/7/2005, you wrote:

>Very well said, Woody! I agree with your comments on all points. (And 
>thanks
>to Clayton for his excellent sample BO prints!)
>
>I have to admit that when I look at my BO prints with my 8x loupe and see
>all the isolated dots, I cringe a little. But that is clearly not the way
>the public looks at prints, nor should they. (Not sure how museum curators
>look at them, but then Seurat did pretty well with his dotted paintings.)
>
>That gives me an idea: how about if we call the black only prints
>"Seurat-giclee" prints and price them at twice what we charge for "inkjet"
>prints.  Either that or prohibit viewing from less than 6 inches and
>prohibit loupes in galleries.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bert
>
>katzung1@...
>www.astronomy-images.com
>www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "woodyspedden" <elwood@...>
>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 6:06 PM
>Subject: [Digital BW] Black Only Printing
>
>
>Everyone
>
>I recently sent a private email to Clayton Jones regarding BO
>printing in which I was highly complimentary of his work.
>
>He suggested that I should send this to the entire forum so that BO
>Printing can be placed in context with other viable methods. So here
>goes:
>
>Clayton
>
>A while back I purchased three of your BO prints and
>absolutely loved them. (At the time I wasn't embroiled
>in the Black and White Print Forum.)
>
>Once I got involved in the forum I became "concerned"
>as people with far more experience and knowledge than
>I ranted on about "the dots" and how continuously
>toned prints were so much better.
>
>I already had a copy of imageprint, but I purchased a
>copy of QTR from Roy and have spent a large amount of
>my free time for the past month or so developing
>profiles for my most common papers (which quite
>frankly is a good mirror of your "great paper chase."
>
>Today I printed a detailed image on all of those
>papers using my QTR profiles and also with BO. I then
>enlisted my wife and daughters support (independently
>of each other) to evaluate the prints with no
>knowledge of how they had been created. Both very
>quickly picked the BO prints over the toned prints and
>by a wide margin.
>
>The ultimate winners for this image were Premier Art
>Hot Press High WHite Matte, and the Red River Dourian
>Art!
>
>Certainly not that you needed the validation but I for
>one just wanted to thank you for the work you have
>done; communicating the basis for that work; and for
>me providing me with a solid foundation for the
>creation of my images.
>
>By the way, both my wife and daughter raved most about
>the transparency of the images (read the luminousity
>of having the white show through.) To them, and to me,
>the continuous toned prints, by comparison, appeared a
>little "muddy."
>
>Thanks ever so much
>
>Woody Spedden
>
>I offer this as strictly my opinions.
>
>Thanks for reading
>Woody Spedden
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>resources as they are often being updated.
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
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>DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
>ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
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>OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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Hi Bert,

As I recall, Seurat created his often rather muted colors out of 
outrageously bright dots of color. Part of his "optical" theory. If 
well lit, which little is in museums these days, the colors have a 
wonderful vibrancy and as you walk up to the surface it resolves into 
intense bright dots of raw color. You may find bright red dots in a 
"yellow" area, or even less intuitive effects. Its been some years 
since I looked at a live Seurat, but I would say that to the best of 
memory he did not use black or white paint. (in fact, many folks at 
the time didn't use black much at all - they wanted to paint light, 
and they knew the color of shadows came from the sky). When he needed 
a grayish tone, he used dots.

Now, he certainly didn't use CMYK, but Epson et al do. And so the 
dots can be small, large, overlapped, etc. to get various "colors" at 
viewing distance. With pigmented inks, the reason the colors "all 
flow together" is because you are looking at them at a distance where 
your eye cannot resolve the dots. Whip out a good x10 loop and all of 
a sudden you can see dots.

I just printed a "B&W" image on my little CMY HP Photosmart. FWIW I 
turned off all their "optimizations" in the driver. Under the loop, 
they quite neatly stacked CMY into a single dot. Impressive control 
really. Perhaps with x100 I would see the edges of color?

Anyway, Seurat used dots of pigment. Monet, Renoir, and the gamut of 
Impressionists used brush strokes, glazes, and all the other 
techniques of oil. But not dots. At most, dabs.

So, I still like the Seurat reference. Not perfect, but then I think 
we are really just having fun here, yes?

Just my 2 cents: to me giclee has always seemed a little affected, 
sort of like companies in the US referring to their corporate HQs as 
Centres. I wonder if folks in France would call the Centers?

--Eric


At 11:43 PM 8/7/2005, you wrote:

>Hi Eric:
>I like your reasoning and you're absolutely right about the appearance of
>Seurat paintings --- very "dotty." But I don't think he ever made any black
>and white paintings, did he? I've only seen colored Seurats. And with modern
>inkjets, we don't see any "Seurat-like" dots --- the colors all flow
>together (inspite of what dye-sub diehards say), so I guess I would call a
>color inkjet "Monet-giclee" or maybe (depending on color saturation, of
>course) "Renoir-giclee."
>Regards,
>Bert
>
>katzung1@...
>www.astronomy-images.com
>www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Eric Vogel" <evogel@...>
>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Black Only Printing
>
>
>I should have thought that the prints made from the colored pigments
>would better be called Seurat-like. If you have never seen a Seurat
>painting "in the flesh" you are in for what looks to be a giant
>giclee (with well-pigmented paint).
>
>At 10:46 PM 8/7/2005, you wrote:
>
> >Very well said, Woody! I agree with your comments on all points. (And
> >thanks
> >to Clayton for his excellent sample BO prints!)
> >
> >I have to admit that when I look at my BO prints with my 8x loupe and see
> >all the isolated dots, I cringe a little. But that is clearly not the way
> >the public looks at prints, nor should they. (Not sure how museum curators
> >look at them, but then Seurat did pretty well with his dotted paintings.)
> >
> >That gives me an idea: how about if we call the black only prints
> >"Seurat-giclee" prints and price them at twice what we charge for "inkjet"
> >prints.  Either that or prohibit viewing from less than 6 inches and
> >prohibit loupes in galleries.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Bert
> >
> >katzung1@...
> >www.astronomy-images.com
> >www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "woodyspedden" <elwood@...>
> >To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 6:06 PM
> >Subject: [Digital BW] Black Only Printing
> >
> >
> >Everyone
> >
> >I recently sent a private email to Clayton Jones regarding BO
> >printing in which I was highly complimentary of his work.
> >
> >He suggested that I should send this to the entire forum so that BO
> >Printing can be placed in context with other viable methods. So here
> >goes:
> >
> >Clayton
> >
> >A while back I purchased three of your BO prints and
> >absolutely loved them. (At the time I wasn't embroiled
> >in the Black and White Print Forum.)
> >
> >Once I got involved in the forum I became "concerned"
> >as people with far more experience and knowledge than
> >I ranted on about "the dots" and how continuously
> >toned prints were so much better.
> >
> >I already had a copy of imageprint, but I purchased a
> >copy of QTR from Roy and have spent a large amount of
> >my free time for the past month or so developing
> >profiles for my most common papers (which quite
> >frankly is a good mirror of your "great paper chase."
> >
> >Today I printed a detailed image on all of those
> >papers using my QTR profiles and also with BO. I then
> >enlisted my wife and daughters support (independently
> >of each other) to evaluate the prints with no
> >knowledge of how they had been created. Both very
> >quickly picked the BO prints over the toned prints and
> >by a wide margin.
> >
> >The ultimate winners for this image were Premier Art
> >Hot Press High WHite Matte, and the Red River Dourian
> >Art!
> >
> >Certainly not that you needed the validation but I for
> >one just wanted to thank you for the work you have
> >done; communicating the basis for that work; and for
> >me providing me with a solid foundation for the
> >creation of my images.
> >
> >By the way, both my wife and daughter raved most about
> >the transparency of the images (read the luminousity
> >of having the white show through.) To them, and to me,
> >the continuous toned prints, by comparison, appeared a
> >little "muddy."
> >
> >Thanks ever so much
> >
> >Woody Spedden
> >
> >I offer this as strictly my opinions.
> >
> >Thanks for reading
> >Woody Spedden
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> >resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>http:/ 
> /groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> >to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> >this same page.
> >
> >Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> >to keep them short.
> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> >flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
> >from the membership without notice.
> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> >B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> >removed from the membership.
> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> >Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the
> >Files section:
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ 
>  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> >PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
> >"OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
> >NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> >CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> >DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
> >LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
> >PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> >DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE
> >DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> >ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> >CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP;
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>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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Hi Eric:
It's been quite a while for me also, since I last saw a Seurat live, but my 
impression was exactly the same as yours. Quite amazing how he constructed 
the visual impression of colors with dots of other colors.

And  I  agree that "giclee"  sounds affected. Well, back to old "Black & 
white inkjet print" <G>.

Regards,

Bert

katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Vogel" <evogel@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Seurat and Black Only Printing


Hi Bert,

As I recall, Seurat created his often rather muted colors out of
outrageously bright dots of color. Part of his "optical" theory. If
well lit, which little is in museums these days, the colors have a
wonderful vibrancy and as you walk up to the surface it resolves into
intense bright dots of raw color. You may find bright red dots in a
"yellow" area, or even less intuitive effects. Its been some years
since I looked at a live Seurat, but I would say that to the best of
memory he did not use black or white paint. (in fact, many folks at
the time didn't use black much at all - they wanted to paint light,
and they knew the color of shadows came from the sky). When he needed
a grayish tone, he used dots.

Now, he certainly didn't use CMYK, but Epson et al do. And so the
dots can be small, large, overlapped, etc. to get various "colors" at
viewing distance. With pigmented inks, the reason the colors "all
flow together" is because you are looking at them at a distance where
your eye cannot resolve the dots. Whip out a good x10 loop and all of
a sudden you can see dots.

I just printed a "B&W" image on my little CMY HP Photosmart. FWIW I
turned off all their "optimizations" in the driver. Under the loop,
they quite neatly stacked CMY into a single dot. Impressive control
really. Perhaps with x100 I would see the edges of color?

Anyway, Seurat used dots of pigment. Monet, Renoir, and the gamut of
Impressionists used brush strokes, glazes, and all the other
techniques of oil. But not dots. At most, dabs.

So, I still like the Seurat reference. Not perfect, but then I think
we are really just having fun here, yes?

Just my 2 cents: to me giclee has always seemed a little affected,
sort of like companies in the US referring to their corporate HQs as
Centres. I wonder if folks in France would call the Centers?

--Eric

Bert Katzung wrote:

>Hi Eric:
>It's been quite a while for me also, since I last saw a Seurat live, but my 
>impression was exactly the same as yours. Quite amazing how he constructed 
>the visual impression of colors with dots of other colors.
>
>And  I  agree that "giclee"  sounds affected. Well, back to old "Black & 
>white inkjet print" <G>.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bert
>  
>
There's quite a difference between the more or less additive color 
mixing of pointillism and the subtractive color mixing of printing. One 
of the reasons the Seurats do not deliver strong colors is in the 
inefficiency of additive mixing on reflective surfaces. Thta kind of 
color mixing needs a lot of light and that's achieved best with 
transparant colors or fluorescents and light getting through the 
colorants like in monitors, LED displays and in the past with the 
Autochrome slides. So the BO link with Seurat isn't on topic, the Giclee 
link isn't much better ...... There were however some pop art artists 
that used big enlargements of CMYK subtractive prints. Reproducing 
pointillism paintings with the usual RGB filtering in scans and digital 
photography + the translation to CMYK subtractive reproduction is 
difficult. Spectral scan and printing methods are now used to overcome 
that problem. This will become the high end of art reproduction anyway 
as in painting the use of many different colorants and the way they are 
applied, opaque, transparent layers etc varies per painting and even 
within one painting.

Subtractive color printing has it flaws as well. In the highlights the 
dot size of CMY inks isn't covering the total white area of the paper 
which would be best for subtractive mixing. Using the LC and LM inks 
increases the coverage though and by that the subtractive mixing 
quality. That results in a (slightly) wider gamut of CcMmYK inksets 
compared to CMYK inksets. Best subtractive mixing is available in 
today's color films and prints, conventional rotogravure color printing, 
etc that are covering the total area with CMY(K) layers that vary in 
density  per spot.

Ernst

Ernst,

I bow to you. I never got it that Seurat was using additive color 
though it seemed clear that he expected the "mixing" to be in the eye.

I didn't really like the idea of using his name any more than I liked giclee.

I am curious to know: what are spectral scan and printing methods?

Best,

Eric


At 03:38 AM 8/8/2005, you wrote:

>Bert Katzung wrote:
>
> >Hi Eric:
> >It's been quite a while for me also, since I last saw a Seurat live, but my
> >impression was exactly the same as yours. Quite amazing how he constructed
> >the visual impression of colors with dots of other colors.
> >
> >And  I  agree that "giclee"  sounds affected. Well, back to old "Black &
> >white inkjet print" <G>.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Bert
> >
> >
>There's quite a difference between the more or less additive color
>mixing of pointillism and the subtractive color mixing of printing. One
>of the reasons the Seurats do not deliver strong colors is in the
>inefficiency of additive mixing on reflective surfaces. Thta kind of
>color mixing needs a lot of light and that's achieved best with
>transparant colors or fluorescents and light getting through the
>colorants like in monitors, LED displays and in the past with the
>Autochrome slides. So the BO link with Seurat isn't on topic, the Giclee
>link isn't much better ...... There were however some pop art artists
>that used big enlargements of CMYK subtractive prints. Reproducing
>pointillism paintings with the usual RGB filtering in scans and digital
>photography + the translation to CMYK subtractive reproduction is
>difficult. Spectral scan and printing methods are now used to overcome
>that problem. This will become the high end of art reproduction anyway
>as in painting the use of many different colorants and the way they are
>applied, opaque, transparent layers etc varies per painting and even
>within one painting.
>
>Subtractive color printing has it flaws as well. In the highlights the
>dot size of CMY inks isn't covering the total white area of the paper
>which would be best for subtractive mixing. Using the LC and LM inks
>increases the coverage though and by that the subtractive mixing
>quality. That results in a (slightly) wider gamut of CcMmYK inksets
>compared to CMYK inksets. Best subtractive mixing is available in
>today's color films and prints, conventional rotogravure color printing,
>etc that are covering the total area with CMY(K) layers that vary in
>density  per spot.
>
>Ernst
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>...so I guess I would call a color inkjet "Monet-giclee" 

That has a nice ring to it.

For BO how about "K-Seurat".   Then we could go about the gallery
singing "K Seurat Seurat, whatever will be, will be..." 

 :)


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

K-Seurat ... Oh, now THAT I like! And Monet-Giclee: wasn't she a 
French film star in the 50's?

At 08:52 AM 8/8/2005, you wrote:

> >...so I guess I would call a color inkjet "Monet-giclee"
>
>That has a nice ring to it.
>
>For BO how about "K-Seurat".   Then we could go about the gallery
>singing "K Seurat Seurat, whatever will be, will be..."
>
>:)
>
>
>Regards,
>Clayton
>
>
>Info on black and white digital printing at
><http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm>http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
>resources as they are often being updated.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric Vogel wrote:

>I am curious to know: what are spectral scan and printing methods?
>
>  
>

Several methods: Measuring the paints with spectrometers and adding that 
to the information gathered with advanced digital photography or 
scanning.  Monochrome sensor with several (up to 13)  narrow band 
filters to get a better spectral representation of the pigments used in 
the painting.
The printing part is more an abbreviation for what is used in practice: 
printing with more hues or what they call N-color systems. For example 
the Epson R800 is a mild version of that, CMYKORGB the practical 
maximum. N-color printing should reduce differences in metamerism 
between the original and the reproduction as the pigments between the 
two are more related in color. I guess there's still metamerism possible 
as oil based pigments in paintings behave differently to for example the 
water based pigments of inkjet printing. Not to mention the use of toxic 
pigments in the past and today's less toxic artificial pigments that 
have to be used.

For musea having the actual digital-spectral information at hand is 
important in relation to restauration and archiving needs.

N-color and multi-spectral art reproduction will give some hits in Google.

http://www.ichim.org/jahia/webdav/site/ichim2004/shared/static/images/salon%20pro/06_LumieresTechnology_fichier01.pdf

http://www.art-si.org/PDFs/Processing/ICOM05_Berns_Seurat.pdf

The last more specific for the Seurat painting and describing the aging 
of the pigments and the loss of luminosity as a result. A digital 
reproduction of the original painting like it was when first shown in Paris.

Not that I understand all of it :-)

Ernst

For a Seurat effect, one could use a software like xaos tools paint alchemy  
- i'd prefer that to a printer solution.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, AWStolzing@a... 
wrote:
> For a Seurat effect, one could use a software like xaos tools paint 
alchemy  
> - i'd prefer that to a printer solution.
> 
> 



You could also make very large works using M&Ms, now with 3 dot sizes 
and 21 colors including white!

I am sure someone alreeady did it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's enough, now, boys --- go back to your rooms. I have to agree with 
Clayton, though: K-Seurat(, Seurat) is perfect!
Bert

katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Vogel" <evogel@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Seurat and Black Only Printing


  K-Seurat ... Oh, now THAT I like! And Monet-Giclee: wasn't she a
French film star in the 50's?

At 08:52 AM 8/8/2005, you wrote:

> >...so I guess I would call a color inkjet "Monet-giclee"
>
>That has a nice ring to it.
>
>For BO how about "K-Seurat".   Then we could go about the gallery
>singing "K Seurat Seurat, whatever will be, will be..."
>
>:)
>
>
>Regards,
>Clayton
>
>

Ernst - much appreciated!

Eric

--- Original Message ---
From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Seurat and Black Only Printing

><html><body>
>
>
><tt>
>Eric Vogel wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>I am curious to know: what are spectral scan and printing
methods?<BR>
>><BR>
>>� <BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Several methods: Measuring the paints with spectrometers and
adding that <B=
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>to the information gathered with advanced digital photography or
<BR>
>scanning.� Monochrome sensor with several (up to 13)�
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used in <BR=
>>
>the painting.<BR>
>The printing part is more an abbreviation for what is used in
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>>
>printing with more hues or what they call N-color systems. For
example <BR>
>the Epson R800 is a mild version of that, CMYKORGB the practical
<BR>
>maximum. N-color printing should reduce differences in
metamerism <BR>
>between the original and the reproduction as the pigments
between the <BR>
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possible <B=
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>as oil based pigments in paintings behave differently to for
example the <B=
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>water based pigments of inkjet printing. Not to mention the use
of toxic <B=
>R>
>pigments in the past and today's less toxic artificial pigments
that <BR>
>have to be used.<BR>
><BR>
>For musea having the actual digital-spectral information at hand
is <BR>
>important in relation to restauration and archiving needs.<BR>
><BR>
>N-color and multi-spectral art reproduction will give some hits
in Google.<=
>BR>
><BR>
><a
href=3D"http://www.ichim.org/jahia/webdav/site/ichim2004/shared/static/i=
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><BR>
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href=3D"http://www.art-si.org/PDFs/Processing/ICOM05_Berns_Seurat.pdf">h=
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><BR>
>The last more specific for the Seurat painting and describing
the aging <BR=
>>
>of the pigments and the loss of luminosity as a result. A
digital <BR>
>reproduction of the original painting like it was when first
shown in Paris=
>.<BR>
><BR>
>Not that I understand all of it :-)<BR>
><BR>
>Ernst<BR>
></tt>
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Eric Vogel

Come to find out Georges Seurat did do some BO painting early on but
eventually gave it up. Evidently for two main reasons: 1. When he
learned that all black pigment was really made up of all his colors
mixed together it began to loose its aura for him. 2. Degas ribbed him
so much about the coarseness of his high values that he just stopped
and embraced the entire spectrum of possibilities.

Its all here in the video: 

http://www.roland-collection.com/rolandcollection/section/12/415.htm