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2005-12-08 by Steve Kale
From time to time we have discussed on this forum the issue of sharing profiles made with the EyeOne. I find it interesting that Bill Atkinson freely shares profiles made with a GM device (although his latest profiles for the 9800 were made using an X-Rite device). Thoughts?
2005-12-09 by Paul D. DeRocco
> From: Steve Kale > > From time to time we have discussed on this forum the issue of > sharing profiles made with > the EyeOne. I find it interesting that Bill Atkinson freely > shares profiles made with a GM > device (although his latest profiles for the 9800 were made using > an X-Rite device). > Thoughts? Depends upon the license you own. The cheaper licenses don't allow sharing, but I believe you can buy a more expensive license that does. I find it all really irritating. If a software company invented the saw, they'd sell it with a license saying you could only use it on your own carpentry projects. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco@...
2005-12-09 by john dean
Let them prove their case in court. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> wrote: > > From time to time we have discussed on this forum the issue of sharing profiles made with > the EyeOne. I find it interesting that Bill Atkinson freely shares profiles made with a GM > device (although his latest profiles for the 9800 were made using an X-Rite device). > Thoughts? >
2005-12-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > Let them prove their case in court. > I would suggest being discrete and not posting them openly. If they take you to court, they will win since you accepted the license agreement that says you are not to share the profiles. Inkjet Art recently removed all their profiles, not wanting to risk the cost of going to court. I just tried to look for that part of the license for my copy of Xrite/Monaco Profiler Platinum, but it seems you can only find it when you are installing it. After I download the 165MB upgrade tonight, I'll pay more attention when installing it, and grab the license to a file. I'm certain there is language that prevents me from making a profile library, and I know GMB has similar language in the i1 software. But agreements can always be reached if you are important enough, or if you fork over enough money. Hopefully Mr. Atkinson has permission to post those profiles, last time I think Epson paid the extra license fee for his profiles. Since they are up on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement has been reached.
2005-12-09 by john dean
Exactly Greg, Atkinson isn't nieve, he's been around the block. I don't know what the big deal is though, a generic profile isn't a cusom profile and never will be. Which begs the question.... I assume anyone making profiles for a living like Profile City, has a licensing agreement worked out with McBeth or whoever patented their system. Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. ( don't tell Epson, they'll do it). John Since they are up
> on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement > has been reached. >
2005-12-09 by dlruckus
Why not just market the software that will work with anyones spectro? Much easier. Little to no manufacturing cost. He has already done the work for B&W. Regards Duane --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs > to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true > democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. ( > don't tell Epson, they'll do it). > > John > > > Since they are up > > on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement > > has been reached. > > >
2005-12-09 by Roy Harrington
The way I read their agreement is that "generic profiles" are the ones restricted unless you've paid for a special more expensive license. Custom profiles by a custom profile service are perfectly fine -- this gives people an incentive to buy the software and sell a profiling service. The other detail is that it's the profile made with their software that is copyrighted. The measurements are not copyrighted -- they can't copyright the density value on your paper! So there's no issue with buying their hardware and feeding the data into a different software package. So making icc profiles some other way is just fine. I'm no legal expert but that's the way I interpret it. Roy --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > Exactly Greg, > > Atkinson isn't nieve, he's been around the block. I don't know what > the big deal is though, a generic profile isn't a cusom profile and > never will be. > > Which begs the question.... I assume anyone making profiles for a > living like Profile City, has a licensing agreement worked out with > McBeth or whoever patented their system. > > Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs > to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true > democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. ( > don't tell Epson, they'll do it). > > John > > > Since they are up > > on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement > > has been reached. > > >
2005-12-09 by Tom Baker
It's not the meter that has the license, it's the software that makes the profile. And, it's very complicated software. If it weren't, everybody be writing their own. There's also some real knowledge that has to be in place behind the software to turn out really good profiles.
Tom Baker
john dean <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
Exactly Greg,
Atkinson isn't nieve, he's been around the block. I don't know what
the big deal is though, a generic profile isn't a cusom profile and
never will be.
Which begs the question.... I assume anyone making profiles for a
living like Profile City, has a licensing agreement worked out with
McBeth or whoever patented their system.
Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs
to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true
democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. (
don't tell Epson, they'll do it).
John
Since they are up
> on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement
> has been reached.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2005-12-09 by Tom Baker
That's also the way my license agreement with the Xrite software reads. It's not just printer profiles, either. It extends to any profile you make with their software, camera, monitor, scanner, etc.
Tom Baker
Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:
The way I read their agreement is that "generic profiles" are the ones restricted
unless you've paid for a special more expensive license.
Custom profiles by a custom profile service are perfectly fine -- this gives
people an incentive to buy the software and sell a profiling service.
The other detail is that it's the profile made with their software that is copyrighted.
The measurements are not copyrighted -- they can't copyright the density value
on your paper! So there's no issue with buying their hardware and feeding the
data into a different software package. So making icc profiles some other way
is just fine.
I'm no legal expert but that's the way I interpret it.
Roy
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
>
> Exactly Greg,
>
> Atkinson isn't nieve, he's been around the block. I don't know what
> the big deal is though, a generic profile isn't a cusom profile and
> never will be.
>
> Which begs the question.... I assume anyone making profiles for a
> living like Profile City, has a licensing agreement worked out with
> McBeth or whoever patented their system.
>
> Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs
> to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true
> democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. (
> don't tell Epson, they'll do it).
>
> John
>
>
> Since they are up
> > on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement
> > has been reached.
> >
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2005-12-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs > to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true > democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. ( > don't tell Epson, they'll do it). > Little CMS could/has be/been modified to work with measurements taken from a spectro. SDK kits can be had for free from GMB and Xrite. There are also several starter applications with source code on the ICC.org website, so there really isn't anything stopping anyone from writing their own software. I still think that Mike Cheney should make Profile Prism do two things. #1 is use measurements from a spectro instead of a scanner (and keep the price under $300). #2 add CMYK support to both Profile Prism and Qimage. You could take the long way around and make Profile Prism work with a spectro now by measureing to a text file, then convert the measurements to L*a*b* data (or use Lab directly from the spectro), then make an image that has those same values in the proper arrangement. Cut and paste an image of an IT8 reference file (Vuescan can make this for you), then run the combined image through Profile Prism. It's a long way around, but for the ultra cheap, it would work (in theory). You could use Colorport to build the target and measure it.
2005-12-09 by john dean
That makes sense Roy, that it is their software package that is being restricted, not the capability of the measuring device. Right, that would be the equivilent of patenting a light meter reading or a densitometer reading of a duo tone negative reading. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, patenting ANY "profile", generic or otherwise. It is the technician that does the creative decision making work and makes the varried measurements and releases it into the world. We're going to hear a lot more about this as printers become closer in tolerance and "genric" profiles become more ubiquitious. John > The way I read their agreement is that "generic profiles" are the ones restricted > unless you've paid for a special more expensive license. > > Custom profiles by a custom profile service are perfectly fine -- this gives > people an incentive to buy the software and sell a profiling service. > > The other detail is that it's the profile made with their software that is copyrighted. > The measurements are not copyrighted -- they can't copyright the density value > on your paper! So there's no issue with buying their hardware and feeding the > data into a different software package. So making icc profiles some other way
> is just fine. > > I'm no legal expert but that's the way I interpret it. > > Roy > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > > > Exactly Greg, > > > > Atkinson isn't nieve, he's been around the block. I don't know what > > the big deal is though, a generic profile isn't a cusom profile and > > never will be. > > > > Which begs the question.... I assume anyone making profiles for a > > living like Profile City, has a licensing agreement worked out with > > McBeth or whoever patented their system. > > > > Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs > > to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true > > democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. ( > > don't tell Epson, they'll do it). > > > > John > > > > > > Since they are up > > > on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement > > > has been reached. > > > > > >
2005-12-09 by Tom Baker
Actually, it's the program designers that really make the difference in how good the profile is that a piece of software turns out. It's not 'cut and dried'. There are qualitative decissions that must be made in determining how the software handles the imput values to create a profile. It's not just plugging in a bunch of numbers. There's real creative ingenuity behind the scenes. Otherwise, one program wouldn't be worth more than others.
Tom Baker
john dean <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
That makes sense Roy, that it is their software package that is being
restricted, not the capability of the measuring device. Right, that
would be the equivilent of patenting a light meter reading or a
densitometer reading of a duo tone negative reading. But it doesn't
make a lot of sense to me, patenting ANY "profile", generic or
otherwise. It is the technician that does the creative decision making
work and makes the varried measurements and releases it into the
world. We're going to hear a lot more about this as printers become
closer in tolerance and "genric" profiles become more ubiquitious.
John
> The way I read their agreement is that "generic profiles" are the
ones restricted
> unless you've paid for a special more expensive license.
>
> Custom profiles by a custom profile service are perfectly fine --
this gives
> people an incentive to buy the software and sell a profiling service.
>
> The other detail is that it's the profile made with their software
that is copyrighted.
> The measurements are not copyrighted -- they can't copyright the
density value
> on your paper! So there's no issue with buying their hardware and
feeding the
> data into a different software package. So making icc profiles
some other way
> is just fine.
>
> I'm no legal expert but that's the way I interpret it.
>
> Roy
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Exactly Greg,
> >
> > Atkinson isn't nieve, he's been around the block. I don't know what
> > the big deal is though, a generic profile isn't a cusom profile and
> > never will be.
> >
> > Which begs the question.... I assume anyone making profiles for a
> > living like Profile City, has a licensing agreement worked out with
> > McBeth or whoever patented their system.
> >
> > Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs
> > to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true
> > democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. (
> > don't tell Epson, they'll do it).
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > Since they are up
> > > on a private web space, I can only assume that a private agreement
> > > has been reached.
> > >
> >
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2005-12-09 by John Hollenberg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@i...> wrote: > > Depends upon the license you own. The cheaper licenses don't allow sharing, > but I believe you can buy a more expensive license that does. > > I find it all really irritating. If a software company invented the saw, > they'd sell it with a license saying you could only use it on your own > carpentry projects. Not a good analogy. It isn't the hardware device you used that limits you, it is the software you used to make the profile.
2005-12-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@s...> wrote: > > Actually, it's the program designers that really make the difference in how good the profile is that a piece of software turns out. It's not 'cut and dried'. There are qualitative decissions that must be made in determining how the software handles the imput values to create a profile. It's not just plugging in a bunch of numbers. There's real creative ingenuity behind the scenes. Otherwise, one program wouldn't be worth more than others. > The "special sauce", each has it's own way of dealing with things like perceptual rendering, and out of gamut colors in the colorimetric rendering intents. Saturation intent is almost completely open to interpretation. ICC v4 makes some things more constant, but still leaves room for the "special sauce" in many areas.
2005-12-09 by Paul D. DeRocco
> From: John Hollenberg > > > I find it all really irritating. If a software company invented the saw, > > they'd sell it with a license saying you could only use it on your own > > carpentry projects. > > Not a good analogy. It isn't the hardware device you used that limits > you, it is the software you used to make the profile. So what? You can't use the software without the hardware, so there's no issue of being able to distribute bootleg copies of the software to everyone. The combination of the hardware and software is still just a physical tool that you buy. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco@...
2005-12-09 by Greg
Just installed the Match 3.4 update, and grabbed the license to a
file. If anyone wants the complete license, contact me off list. Here
is the important part to this discussion:
2 Use of Profiles
a) The Software is licensed for use only as follows:
(i) To create profiles on the specific input or output device that
You own or otherwise possess and for which they were created ("Your
Device"). You may make these profiles available to third parties only
in circumstances in which the third party will be optimizing images
that have been created on, or will be output on, Your Device,
provided that Your Device continues to be owned by You or in Your
possession at such time that a profile is made available to such
third party; or
(ii) to create profiles by using reference characteristic data which
are publicly and without consideration provided by professional or
trade associations like standardization institutes to be used for
their intended purpose; or
(iii) to create a profile, as part of Your providing a profiling
service, for a specific input or output device owned by a third party
for use by that third party on such device.
b) No Distribution of generic profiles
This Agreement does not grant You the right to distribute or embed
created profiles, also not under Your private label, into any
software, devices or consumables like paper that You manufacture,
market or distribute to third parties. If You wish to create profiles
for this purpose, You will need a separate license. With regard to
generic profiles created by non-profit organizations like the ECI,
GretagMacbeth is however prepared to permit to embed such profiles
into any software, devices or consumables to be distributed
commercially by an agreement on a case by case basis. For information
on a separate license You may contact support@gretagmacbethDOTcom. .
BTW, don't expect a response from that email address, I'm still
waiting for one for a problem after a couple of days. As far as I
know Inkjet Art has never received a response to their query about
posting profiles.2005-12-09 by Greg
And just installed the Profiler 4.8 update, so here is the license for that product: Profile use Defined. For purposes of this Agreement, the term "Profile" means the data stored in look-up tables for characterizing various input, display, and output devices. Profiles are used for providing transformations between well-defined color metrics and for device characterization and calibration. General. If the Software creates Profiles, then the license to use the Software shall include a nonexclusive license to use the Profiles, subject to the additional restrictions below. Restrictions. (a) You may use each Profile only for the specific display, input or output device owned by you, for which the device Profile was created; (b) A Profile may be shared with third parties for proofing purposes, provided that the Profile (i) is embedded within an image or publication; or (ii) sent to a service provider along with an image or publication for use exclusively with that image or publication; (c) A Profile may be used by a third party only on a specific display, input or output device owned by the third party for which the device Profile was created as part of Your commercial profiling service to such third party. (d) Except as expressly permitted in this Agreement, You may not Yourself or through any other person, do any of the following: (i) sell, license, sublicense, lease, rent, lend, disclose, permit access to, or transfer to any third party, whether for profit or without charge, any Profile; (ii) allow any third party to use a Profile; or (iii) distribute to any third party a Profile in any way or form, whether by networks, electronic bulletin boards, web sites or otherwise. X-Rite may permit certain distribution rights under a separate written distribution agreement. Notice that Xrite doesn't come right out and say that you need to pay big money to mass distribute "generic" profiles.
2005-12-09 by Bert Katzung
I'm a novice in the whole profile arena, but this thread has reduced my
enthusiasm for getting a GMB device of any sort (I gather they make the
eye-1?) from about 99% down to 1% or less.
Maybe there are a few other novices who could profit from some explanation
of what seems to be an extraordinary restriction on what one can do after
paying one's one money for a device/software. (I understand why Microsoft
and Apple don't want people to make copies of their operating systems, but
they don't presume to prevent me from giving a document that I made in Word
to someone else.)
Is the purpose of the restrictive license simply to sell one eye-1 to
every user of profiles? That doesn't seem very realistic, given the price of
the eye-1.
Second, the license quoted below is very definitely in the singular
(Device, not Devices). Can they mean that you can only use one eye-1 on a
single printer? Is there something in the software that can enforce that? Is
this one of those things that requires activation with the entire system
running so that the GMB police can characterize exactly what scanner,
monitor, and printer you have in your system?
Pardon my paranoia, but the whole business reminds me of the horrible old
days of copy protection with dongles and all the rest.
Bert
katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg" <dfaprinting@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:24 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles
Just installed the Match 3.4 update, and grabbed the license to a
file. If anyone wants the complete license, contact me off list. Here
is the important part to this discussion:
2 Use of Profiles
a) The Software is licensed for use only as follows:
(i) To create profiles on the specific input or output device that
You own or otherwise possess and for which they were created ("Your
Device"). You may make these profiles available to third parties only
in circumstances in which the third party will be optimizing images
that have been created on, or will be output on, Your Device,
provided that Your Device continues to be owned by You or in Your
possession at such time that a profile is made available to such
third party; or
(ii) to create profiles by using reference characteristic data which
are publicly and without consideration provided by professional or
trade associations like standardization institutes to be used for
their intended purpose; or
(iii) to create a profile, as part of Your providing a profiling
service, for a specific input or output device owned by a third party
for use by that third party on such device.
b) No Distribution of generic profiles
This Agreement does not grant You the right to distribute or embed
created profiles, also not under Your private label, into any
software, devices or consumables like paper that You manufacture,
market or distribute to third parties. If You wish to create profiles
for this purpose, You will need a separate license. With regard to
generic profiles created by non-profit organizations like the ECI,
GretagMacbeth is however prepared to permit to embed such profiles
into any software, devices or consumables to be distributed
commercially by an agreement on a case by case basis. For information
on a separate license You may contact support@gretagmacbethDOTcom. .
BTW, don't expect a response from that email address, I'm still
waiting for one for a problem after a couple of days. As far as I
know Inkjet Art has never received a response to their query about
posting profiles.
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
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Yahoo! Groups Links2005-12-09 by Ernst Dinkla
Greg wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
>> Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru
> needs
>> to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true
>> democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that. (
>> don't tell Epson, they'll do it).
>>
>
>
> Little CMS could/has be/been modified to work with measurements taken
> from a spectro. SDK kits can be had for free from GMB and Xrite.
> There are also several starter applications with source code on the
> ICC.org website, so there really isn't anything stopping anyone from
> writing their own software. I still think that Mike Cheney should
> make Profile Prism do two things. #1 is use measurements from a
> spectro instead of a scanner (and keep the price under $300). #2 add
> CMYK support to both Profile Prism and Qimage.
>
> You could take the long way around and make Profile Prism work with a
> spectro now by measureing to a text file, then convert the
> measurements to L*a*b* data (or use Lab directly from the spectro),
> then make an image that has those same values in the proper
> arrangement. Cut and paste an image of an IT8 reference file (Vuescan
> can make this for you), then run the combined image through Profile
> Prism. It's a long way around, but for the ultra cheap, it would work
> (in theory). You could use Colorport to build the target and measure
> it.
Asked Mike for Spectrometer input and got no answer.
Thought about that path too. But it is a long way.
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
That's not democracy, that's charity. Never confuse the two.
> From: john dean <deanwork2003@...> > > Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs > to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true > democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that.
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
Perceptual is.
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > > > The "special sauce", each has it's own way of dealing with things > like perceptual rendering, and out of gamut colors in the > colorimetric rendering intents. Saturation intent is almost > completely open to interpretation. ICC v4 makes some things more > constant, but still leaves room for the "special sauce" in many areas. >
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
H thanks for the heads up on that. 3.4 should now have the updates incorporated into PM5.05 earlier in the week. License seems pretty clear and I suspect/hope Bill has some sort of agreement with each of the companies making the profiling software he uses.
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 06:24:42 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles > > Just installed the Match 3.4 update,
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
I must say I find the licence perfectly sensible. Else we could simply rent one out to anyone who wants it. Then there wouldn't be anything to rent because nobody would invest the capital to develop it. Then you'd really be sucking wind. These guys sell a complex instrument and very complex software serving a very good purpose. They deserve to earn a fair return as a result. I'm simply surprised that Bill can do what he does - offer for free generic profiles made with X-Rite and GM equipment and software. I hope he has special arrangements with them.
> From: Bert Katzung <katzung1@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 23:06:31 -0800 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles > > I'm a novice in the whole profile arena, but this thread has reduced my > enthusiasm for getting a GMB device of any sort (I gather they make the > eye-1?) from about 99% down to 1% or less. > Maybe there are a few other novices who could profit from some explanation > of what seems to be an extraordinary restriction on what one can do after > paying one's one money for a device/software. (I understand why Microsoft > and Apple don't want people to make copies of their operating systems, but > they don't presume to prevent me from giving a document that I made in Word > to someone else.) > Is the purpose of the restrictive license simply to sell one eye-1 to > every user of profiles? That doesn't seem very realistic, given the price of > the eye-1. > Second, the license quoted below is very definitely in the singular > (Device, not Devices). Can they mean that you can only use one eye-1 on a > single printer? Is there something in the software that can enforce that? Is > this one of those things that requires activation with the entire system > running so that the GMB police can characterize exactly what scanner, > monitor, and printer you have in your system? > > Pardon my paranoia, but the whole business reminds me of the horrible old > days of copy protection with dongles and all the rest. > > Bert > > katzung1@... > www.astronomy-images.com > www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
Too quick. From the install readme it doesn't look like they've incorporated those yet. :-(
> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:58:11 +0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Conversation: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles > > H thanks for the heads up on that. 3.4 should now have the updates > incorporated into PM5.05 earlier in the week. > > License seems pretty clear and I suspect/hope Bill has some sort of > agreement with each of the companies making the profiling software he uses. > > >> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> >> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 06:24:42 -0000 >> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles >> >> Just installed the Match 3.4 update,
2005-12-09 by Ernst Dinkla
Roy Harrington wrote:
> The way I read their agreement is that "generic profiles" are the ones restricted
> unless you've paid for a special more expensive license.
>
> Custom profiles by a custom profile service are perfectly fine -- this gives
> people an incentive to buy the software and sell a profiling service.
>
> The other detail is that it's the profile made with their software that is copyrighted.
> The measurements are not copyrighted -- they can't copyright the density value
> on your paper! So there's no issue with buying their hardware and feeding the
> data into a different software package. So making icc profiles some other way
> is just fine.
>
> I'm no legal expert but that's the way I interpret it.
>
> Roy
The SpectroCam comes with several tools including one for
reading different targets. There's no restriction on
distributing the measurements as far as I can see.
For the Eye 1 and X-rite's Colorport it is different I think.
A kind of general license restriction added to (the free)
Colorport while it can't do much more than the Spectrocam
software. Based on what I read there I wouldn't go to court
and say that I only gathered the density values and
distributed them.
I'm no legal expert either and I share your view that the
measurements can't be copyrighted.
Ernst
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2005-12-09 by Dennis Dowling
12/9/05 10:02 AM: stevekale@... (Steve Kale) apparently typed... >I must say I find the licence perfectly sensible. Else we could simply rent >one out to anyone who wants it. Then there wouldn't be anything to rent >because nobody would invest the capital to develop it. Then you'd really be >sucking wind. These guys sell a complex instrument and very complex >software serving a very good purpose. They deserve to earn a fair return as >a result. Funny, I was just about to ask if there are any photo equipment shops that rent out spectrometers/profilers for print calibration. I can see that the software license probably limits installation on various machines. It's a debatable issue of whether a company will loose sales on a product if it's rented. It depends on the cost of the product and how often a person would use it. An expensive product that gets used daily is justifiable. But, something like a spectrometer/profiler that gets used rarely by an average user isn't a justifiable expense. There's always a trade-off between the number of rental shops buying products verses average users not buying them. Every other piece of photo equipment is available for rent why not profilers? I know there are profiling services that can do it for you. But, one of the reasons I'd want to rent a spectrometer is so I could learn how to make my own profiles. Another reason to rent is to be able to test out various products before buying one. Like most people I remember being disappointed with prints the first time I started using an inkjet printer. Later you're relieved and excited when you discover there is technology available to get good results by using icc calibration/profiling methods. But, then there is the second round of disappointment when you realize the expense of a good profiling system. I'm sure there a many people who are ready and willing to experiment and learn more about profiling but are being held back by expensive equipment. I agree the developers deserve compensation for products. Hopefully, as with other technology, profiling products will become more commonplace and eventually less expensive. - Den.
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
Not at all. Just acknowledge the generosity involved in something provided for free or near free. And don't confuse it with democracy.
> From: john dean <deanwork2003@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 14:12:43 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles > > Yea, and if it were up to you everyone who wanted to decently control > monochrome would be paying 2 grand for Studio Print. > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale > <stevekale@b...> wrote: >> >> That's not democracy, that's charity. Never confuse the two. >> >> >>> From: john dean <deanwork2003@y...> >> >>> >>> Now you got me thinking... Roy Harrington or some software guru needs >>> to market his own photospectrometer and open the world up to true >>> democracy! It's only a matter of time before someone does that.
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
You can "rent" it by going to a profiling service of which there are many. That's fully within the license conditions. As for wanting to "learn how to make [your] own profiles" it's not that hard: print the target and then drag the device over it when the package says so. That's about it. Doubt you'd learn much more than that. Good dealers will offer demonstrations and be cognizant of other competing devices. Again there's not much difference in the use of the device or in fact the device hardware itself. The differences are in the software: the gamut mapping algorithms. You and I are highly unlikely to learn the intricacies of that science in our lifetimes. But again a profiling service (or services) or dealer can provide you with profiles from a range of packages for the same data so that you can determine which gamut mapping algorithms you think you'd prefer. There's good competition in the profiling package market. The reason they aren't free isn't due to collusion or scarcity of supply. It costs a lot in development to build and maintain the algorithms/software to make a good profile - even from a given set of already measured data. But they're not that expensive either. You can achieve a lot with an EyeOne Photo which costs a $1200 or so (there are likely cheaper alternatives). Versus the cost of a good computer, display, scanner, camera, lenses, Photoshop, paper and ink that's not a massive sum of money. If you'd rather avoid the capital cost then profiling services fill the gap. You are just looking to arbitrage the cost purchase vs outsourced profiling, by renting. GM would charge a healthy premium for something not bound by a single user license. How much do you think Adobe would charge for a copy of Photoshop that could be used by anyone, anytime, anywhere, on any number of machines?
> From: Dennis Dowling <den@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:29:04 -0800 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Sharing EyeOne Profiles - Renting > > 12/9/05 10:02 AM: stevekale@... (Steve Kale) apparently typed... >> I must say I find the licence perfectly sensible. Else we could simply rent >> one out to anyone who wants it. Then there wouldn't be anything to rent >> because nobody would invest the capital to develop it. Then you'd really be >> sucking wind. These guys sell a complex instrument and very complex >> software serving a very good purpose. They deserve to earn a fair return as >> a result. > > Funny, I was just about to ask if there are any photo equipment shops that > rent out spectrometers/profilers for print calibration. I can see that the > software license probably limits installation on various machines. > > It's a debatable issue of whether a company will loose sales on a product if > it's rented. It depends on the cost of the product and how often a person > would use it. An expensive product that gets used daily is justifiable. But, > something like a spectrometer/profiler that gets used rarely by an average > user isn't a justifiable expense. There's always a trade-off between the > number of rental shops buying products verses average users not buying them. > Every other piece of photo equipment is available for rent why not profilers? > > I know there are profiling services that can do it for you. But, one of the > reasons I'd want to rent a spectrometer is so I could learn how to make my > own profiles. Another reason to rent is to be able to test out various > products before buying one. > > Like most people I remember being disappointed with prints the first time I > started using an inkjet printer. Later you're relieved and excited when you > discover there is technology available to get good results by using icc > calibration/profiling methods. But, then there is the second round of > disappointment when you realize the expense of a good profiling system. I'm > sure there a many people who are ready and willing to experiment and learn > more about profiling but are being held back by expensive equipment. > > I agree the developers deserve compensation for products. Hopefully, as with > other technology, profiling products will become more commonplace and > eventually less expensive. > > - Den.
2005-12-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote: > > Asked Mike for Spectrometer input and got no answer. > > Thought about that path too. But it is a long way. > > -- I think the long path could be automated with a good database software, but that is beyond me. Little CMS is very close to being able to use a measurement file from the last time I read through the documentation.
2005-12-09 by Greg
One of the reasons for this was to get the iO properly supported, and to get the editor tweaks out since they messed that up the first time around. I only downloaded it beacuse I have a used spectro coming, and wanted to see what capabilities it really had (as oppossed to what the seller claimed). I never use the software (except monitor) since I only bought the Design for my previous spectro. Bought another i1 with the UV filter to use with Profiler 4.8, and now Im kind of regretting it. Decided to contact Gretag about an old problem, and was once again ignored! This is several times they've done this to me, and I really don't like them for it. I had a reply from Xrite about 2 hours after they starting working for the day. I'll probably end up selling all my i1 stuff and going with a Pulse or maybe better. If the profiling business picks up, I'll just buy a DTP70 and be HAPPY!
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
Interesting. Whenever I send an email to GM support it is answered that day. Very helpful.
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > > One of the reasons for this was to get the iO properly supported, and > to get the editor tweaks out since they messed that up the first time > around. > > I only downloaded it beacuse I have a used spectro coming, and wanted > to see what capabilities it really had (as oppossed to what the seller > claimed). > > I never use the software (except monitor) since I only bought the > Design for my previous spectro. Bought another i1 with the UV filter to > use with Profiler 4.8, and now Im kind of regretting it. Decided to > contact Gretag about an old problem, and was once again ignored! This > is several times they've done this to me, and I really don't like them > for it. I had a reply from Xrite about 2 hours after they starting > working for the day. I'll probably end up selling all my i1 stuff and > going with a Pulse or maybe better. If the profiling business picks up, > I'll just buy a DTP70 and be HAPPY!
2005-12-09 by Bjorn Helgaas
On Thursday 08 December 2005 7:09 pm, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: > > From: Steve Kale > > > > From time to time we have discussed on this forum the issue of > > sharing profiles made with > > the EyeOne. I find it interesting that Bill Atkinson freely > > shares profiles made with a GM > > device (although his latest profiles for the 9800 were made using > > an X-Rite device). > > Thoughts? > > Depends upon the license you own. The cheaper licenses don't allow sharing, > but I believe you can buy a more expensive license that does. > > I find it all really irritating. If a software company invented the saw, > they'd sell it with a license saying you could only use it on your own > carpentry projects. I find it irritating as well. I think the time is right for open-source color management and profiling tools. Little cms seems like it has a lot of the pieces, but is lacking drivers for most instruments. The drivers should be fairly simple, and I'd love to write one. The problem is getting specs for the instruments. I suspect it could also be done by just using the instrument with the manufacturer's driver, snooping the USB traffic, and reverse-engineering the protocol. But the reverse-engineering is of questionable legality in the US.
2005-12-09 by Paul Roark
> ...I think the time is right for open-source
> color management and profiling tools. ...
See http://lprof.sourceforge.net/ ("On August 15, 2005 the LPROF project was
created in SourceForge.net... LPROF is the only open source ICC profiler
with a graphical user interface. It can be used to create profiles for
cameras, scanners and monitors... On August 23 LPROF-1.10 became available
on SourceForge,net http://sourceforge.net/projects/lprof ...")
See also http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/OpenIcc (Open ICC program),
http://www.color.org/ (The big ICC organization),
http://www.printondemand.com/MT/archives/001782.html ("Creo has produced
Profile Wizard software without restrictions on exchanging profiles ...")
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com2005-12-09 by Bjorn Helgaas
On Friday 09 December 2005 9:29 am, Paul Roark wrote:
> > ...I think the time is right for open-source
> > color management and profiling tools. ...
>
> See http://lprof.sourceforge.net/ ("On August 15, 2005 the LPROF project was
> created in SourceForge.net... LPROF is the only open source ICC profiler
> with a graphical user interface. It can be used to create profiles for
> cameras, scanners and monitors... On August 23 LPROF-1.10 became available
> on SourceForge,net http://sourceforge.net/projects/lprof ...")
>
> See also http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/OpenIcc (Open ICC program),
> http://www.color.org/ (The big ICC organization),
> http://www.printondemand.com/MT/archives/001782.html ("Creo has produced
> Profile Wizard software without restrictions on exchanging profiles ...")
Lots of the pieces seem to be there. But last I looked, there were
still no instrument drivers. So you might be able to use manufacturer's
software to read out numeric values, copy them into lprof, and create
profiles that way. But that's not a very user-friendly experience.
I tried to get specs for my ColorVision Spyder, but when they heard
that anything I produced would be open-source, they lost interest :-(2005-12-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > > Interesting. Whenever I send an email to GM support it is answered that > day. Very helpful. > > All I ever get is an auto reply. I'm really thinking of selling all my GMB stuff the farther along I go. Next time you send them a message, tell them I am unhappy with their service before, during and after purchase (problems at each stage). Wish the Pulse had a cheaper "hardware only" choice like the Design.
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
Have you registered your equipment?
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:57:28 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale > <stevekale@b...> wrote: >> >> Interesting. Whenever I send an email to GM support it is answered > that >> day. Very helpful. >> >> >
2005-12-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > > Have you registered your equipment? That's part of the problem, the stupid web interface won't let me! After selecting the i1 it wants you to select a package, but that selection area is always BLANK. I can fill in all the other info, but it will not take it. Also when I had some rather significant and intelligent questions before I bought my Design, I did not get an answer to any questions. In fact the regional sales rep should hope that I never meet him at a show... Then when I did buy it, in February/March 2005, I expected to be getting the RevB spectro that was shipping with everything else. But that would be wrong too, I got the old RevA hardware. The overall experience has been bad. The hardware seems to work, but I'm pretty sure that if/when I need service, I'll be out in the cold since I can't get a reply from them. I did get the notice about 50% off PMP, and I'm sure I'll get the next email for the next deal.
2005-12-09 by Steve Kale
Sounds like a real bum rap. When I bought my EyeOne Photo (with the newly enhanced spectrophotometer) at this time last year, they said that the digital camera profiling and profile editing modules would follow mid this year, which they did. But when I found out that you needed the Digital Colorchecker SG to do the camera profiling I complained. They immediately sent me the Colorchecker, worth a couple of hundred bucks. So I effectively have the EyeOne Photo SG package. They've always answered my tech questions promptly and when I asked where my $400 PM5 voucher was I got that within a couple of hours. I always ask questions via the help centre (quoting the serial number of my spectro): http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/support/helpcenter.htm
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:20:40 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale > <stevekale@b...> wrote: >> >> Have you registered your equipment? > > That's part of the problem, the stupid web interface won't let me! > After selecting the i1 it wants you to select a package, but that > selection area is always BLANK. I can fill in all the other info, but > it will not take it. > > Also when I had some rather significant and intelligent questions > before I bought my Design, I did not get an answer to any questions. In > fact the regional sales rep should hope that I never meet him at a > show... > > Then when I did buy it, in February/March 2005, I expected to be > getting the RevB spectro that was shipping with everything else. But > that would be wrong too, I got the old RevA hardware. > > The overall experience has been bad. The hardware seems to work, but > I'm pretty sure that if/when I need service, I'll be out in the cold > since I can't get a reply from them. I did get the notice about 50% off > PMP, and I'm sure I'll get the next email for the next deal.
2005-12-09 by Paul D. DeRocco
> From: Steve Kale > > I must say I find the licence perfectly sensible. Else we could > simply rent > one out to anyone who wants it. Then there wouldn't be anything to rent > because nobody would invest the capital to develop it. Then > you'd really be > sucking wind. These guys sell a complex instrument and very complex > software serving a very good purpose. They deserve to earn a > fair return as > a result. I'm sure that people would rent out such equipment. Just as they rent out cameras or lenses. Or oscilliscopes. Or cars. Or anything else that costs a lot, and takes a lot of capital to develop. But there are two issues here. One is the restriction on letting someone else use your tools. That's bad enough. But the other is the restriction on using your own tools to build something for someone else, in this case a profile. I see no justification for that, because I can't see any fundamental difference between the spectro plus software sold by Gretag Macbeth and the table saw sold by Black & Decker, or the spectrum analyzer sold by Tektronix, or for that matter the printer sold by Epson. What principle would allow GM to restrict the use of their spectros to making profiles only for oneself, but that wouldn't allow, say, Epson to restrict the use of their printers to print only one's own pictures, in the hope that they could sell more printers that way? -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco@...
2005-12-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > I always ask questions via the help centre (quoting the > serial number of my spectro): > > http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/support/helpcenter.htm > Tried that, still nothing. I guess they don't care since they got a sale out of me. But it was a small sale, and Xrite got a large sale when I bought Profiler. I also bought a Pulse system tonight since it was only a little more than the price of the DTP20 spectro only. Since I have an i1UV coming, I may do a head to head of the two spectros to see what kind of differences I find. Might even do a head to head of the software too. The loser of the testing will get sold, if it's a tie then the i1 will get sold. Wish I had the money for the DTP70...
2005-12-13 by John Moody
Greg, If you are not registered, you cant even log into the help center, IIRC. Anyone not registered because the lousy web interface messed it up, should pick up the phone and straighten it out. I had a similar problem getting signed up, but now that I am, I can say the (login required) help center is useful, and also improved recently. Yesterday 3.4 locked-up on a first time profiling of my new machine display, and I found the answer in 5 minutes via the help center.... Now, if the new ruler would finally show up............ Best regards, John Moody
-----Original Message----- From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:45 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > I always ask questions via the help centre (quoting the > serial number of my spectro): > > http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/support/helpcenter.htm > Tried that, still nothing. I guess they don't care since they got a sale out of me. But it was a small sale, and Xrite got a large sale when I bought Profiler. I also bought a Pulse system tonight since it was only a little more than the price of the DTP20 spectro only. Since I have an i1UV coming, I may do a head to head of the two spectros to see what kind of differences I find. Might even do a head to head of the software too. The loser of the testing will get sold, if it's a tie then the i1 will get sold. Wish I had the money for the DTP70... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-12-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote: > > Greg, > If you are not registered, you can't even log into the help center, IIRC. That's the really strange part, I'm half way registered. Can't explain how but if you persevere you can finally make it take your name and email, but it will not take anything in the box after I select the i1 where it wants the specific product. Serial number and all that goes in, but it never records anything. I've pretty much given up on all that, hoping the Pulse will work as well as Xrite claims.
2005-12-13 by Steve Kale
You create an account BEFORE you register your product. Go here: http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/ And then Training and Support->Product Registration->Sign Up. Once you have an account then you can register your product. If you have problems with that it must be your browser or something.
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:45:23 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" > <moodymz3@y...> wrote: >> >> Greg, >> If you are not registered, you can't even log into the help center, > IIRC. > > > That's the really strange part, I'm half way registered. Can't explain > how but if you persevere you can finally make it take your name and > email, but it will not take anything in the box after I select the i1 > where it wants the specific product. Serial number and all that goes > in, but it never records anything. I've pretty much given up on all > that, hoping the Pulse will work as well as Xrite claims. > >
2005-12-13 by John Moody
Yes, that sounds familiar to the trouble I had, but it was a while ago now. I also got confused with the registrations at i1color.com, and at gretagmacbeth.com; I thought everything was going to be through i1color. Somehow, I got it to work, making me feel special each time it finally say s Welcome John Moody. Rather pathetic, I know..... Best regards, John Moody
-----Original Message----- From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:45 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote: > > Greg, > If you are not registered, you can't even log into the help center, IIRC. That's the really strange part, I'm half way registered. Can't explain how but if you persevere you can finally make it take your name and email, but it will not take anything in the box after I select the i1 where it wants the specific product. Serial number and all that goes in, but it never records anything. I've pretty much given up on all that, hoping the Pulse will work as well as Xrite claims. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-12-13 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote: ... > Somehow, I got it to work, making me feel "special" each time it finally say > 's "Welcome John Moody". Rather pathetic, I know..... ... Well John, it's the little things, you know? I have the old i1, did anyone do this "revision B" or whatever it is and see any difference? Tyler
2005-12-13 by John Moody
For a cheap thrill, I logged on to GM, and found this in the user support area. :-) To the best of our knowledge there is no difference in accuracy between the Eye-One Revision A and Revision B. The only difference claimed is faster reading of charts for Rev B. Best regards, John Moody
-----Original Message----- From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tyler Boley Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:02 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote: ... > Somehow, I got it to work, making me feel "special" each time it finally say > 's "Welcome John Moody". Rather pathetic, I know..... ... Well John, it's the little things, you know? I have the old i1, did anyone do this "revision B" or whatever it is and see any difference? Tyler [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-12-13 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote: > > For a cheap thrill, I logged on to GM, and found this in the user support > area. :-) I hope this doesn't become a habit, and ruin your life. Maybe cold turkey it for the rest of the week. > "To the best of our knowledge there is no difference in accuracy between the > Eye-One Revision A and Revision B." > > The only difference claimed is faster reading of charts for Rev B. Good, one more thing to cross off the list. How fast I read a chart has more to do with how much coffee I've have than the thing itself. They're throwing so many promotions out there I'm having a hard time keeping my VISA in my wallet. Tyler
2005-12-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> wrote: > They're throwing so many promotions out there I'm having a hard time > keeping my VISA in my wallet. > Tyler > Simple, just send a question about a product and wait until you get a reply before you buy it.
2005-12-13 by Steve Kale
If you own it and have registered it this is not a problem. If you don't own it then ask a distributor. Support is for owners and not prospective purchasers. It's simply not equipped to do that. You don't call Sony when you have a question about their range of consumer electronics, you call a dealership... ;-)
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:43:30 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] i1 Match 3.4 > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > <tyler@t...> wrote: >> They're throwing so many promotions out there I'm having a hard time >> keeping my VISA in my wallet. >> Tyler >> > > Simple, just send a question about a product and wait until you get a > reply before you buy it.
2005-12-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > > If you own it and have registered it this is not a problem. If you don't > own it then ask a distributor. Support is for owners and not prospective > purchasers. It's simply not equipped to do that. You don't call Sony when > you have a question about their range of consumer electronics, you call a > dealership... > I own it, and tried to register it, and with the last email I included the serial number of the spectro! And yes you do ask them about products before you buy them, that's what the sales people are for!
2005-12-13 by James Irelan
> > > They're throwing so many promotions out there I'm having a hard time > keeping my VISA in my wallet. > Tyler > I heard it. That automator desk looks really cool, though. I had the same idea, only with different mechanics, and a LOT different price. Whenever I have an idea, I just wait, and someone else comes out with it. Saves me all that R&D. For $1900, though, I'm going to keep reading a lot of 20 min charts, I'm afraid. James