Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

     This is my first post to the group.  I just purchased the 
Piezography K7 inkset for my 2200 and have been really pleased with 
the results so far.  I have read through the archives and haven't 
really seen my question addressed directly.  So, here goes:

     I have not had experience with the MIS ink systems and was 
wondering whether someone could compare the relative pro's and con's 
of that system to the K7 system.  Please note, I am not asking for 
a "which is best" review and don't want to start any sort of brand 
warfare discussion.  Since I don't have experience with the MIS inks, 
I was just wanting a comparison.

     Thanks.

Tim

new2jazz04 wrote:

> Hello,
>
>      This is my first post to the group.  I just purchased the
> Piezography K7 inkset for my 2200 and have been really pleased with
> the results so far.  I have read through the archives and haven't
> really seen my question addressed directly.  So, here goes:
>
>      I have not had experience with the MIS ink systems and was
> wondering whether someone could compare the relative pro's and con's
> of that system to the K7 system.  Please note, I am not asking for
> a "which is best" review and don't want to start any sort of brand
> warfare discussion.  Since I don't have experience with the MIS inks,
> I was just wanting a comparison.
>
>      Thanks.
>
> Tim

IMHO, it really comes down to whether you want a fixed tone inkset or a 
variable tone inkset.

The main reason to use the UT7 set is that you can vary the tone to 
suit, within reason. The main disadvantage is the possibility of 
differential fading over time pushing the print's tone warmer or cooler 
than you intended.

The K7 inkset has several advantages. The seven dilutions can give 
smoother tonal transitions than a four dilution set (the UT7 set is 
essentially two quadtone sets - a cool set and a warm set with a common 
black). Since the K7 set is a set of dilutions of a common black, 
tonality will be the same as the inks age. There should be no 
differential fading over time that will change the color of the print. 
You don't have to spend time and resources (test prints) picking a tone 
- the tone is fixed. Because the tone of the ink is fixed, you can vary 
the tone of the print by varying the tone of the paper.

I'm sure if I missed any, others in the group will chime in ;-)

Happy Holidays!
--
Bruce Watson

I'm not going to get into which approach is best, but I thought I'd comment
on a few issues.

> new2jazz04 wrote:
> 
> > ... I just purchased the
> > Piezography K7 inkset for my 2200 and have been really pleased with
> > the results so far...

> >      I have not had experience with the MIS ink systems and was
> > wondering whether someone could compare the relative pro's and con's
> > of that system to the K7 system

Bruce wrote:

> 
> IMHO, it really comes down to whether you want a fixed tone inkset or a
> variable tone inkset.

Price is also a relevant factor.  Both systems can work very well.

(Also, note that MIS has monotone inksets, like the new R2 for the R220.)

 
> The main reason to use the UT7 set [the MIS variable-tone inkset 
> for the 2200] is that you can vary the tone to
> suit, within reason.

This includes the flexibility to "profile" different papers so that they
print with the tone you like on any number of papers.

> The main disadvantage is the possibility of
> differential fading over time pushing the print's tone warmer or cooler
> than you intended.

No, there should be no significant difference here.  I believe the K7 inks
have differing amounts of color pigments mixed in.  I may be wrong here, but
I simply don't know of any pure carbon pigments that can print neutral over
the entire range of densities we're interested in.  It'll really take
controlled, comparative fade testing to see what, if any, aging differences
there are from these inksets.  The differential fading problem occurs with
color inksets that attempt to make a gray tone from color inks.

A "neutral" tone that is composed of predominantly carbon will usually have
some color pigments mixed in.  These will fade faster than the carbon, but
the carbon also shifts color.  So, there will be color change in either
case.  What usually dominates in a reasonable time span (like one's expected
life span for normal display conditions) is the warming of the carbon.  (If
you're using brightened paper, the burning out of the optical brighteners
may be the largest change -- which is a big reason I prefer paper with no
OBAs.)


> The K7 inkset has several advantages. The seven dilutions can give
> smoother tonal transitions than a four dilution set...

The more different densities, the smoother one can make a print, at least in
theory.  There are diminishing returns here.  Also, how the curves are
written, the dither pattern of the printer and driver, and how well the
printer is working might overcome the advantages of more densities rather
quickly.  In general, Jon Cone has stressed ultimate smoothness, whereas
with the inksets I've made for myself (and MIS sells -- royalty free), I
tend to prefer more flexibility or other factors after I think the inkset is
so smooth there will be no practical difference in final visual impact.

> ... Since the K7 set is a set of dilutions of a common black,
> tonality will be the same as the inks age.

I doubt the K7 is simply different dilutions of a single black.  Different
dilutions need different toning to produce the same final hue on the printed
page.  It's not nearly as simple as just making different dilutions.  I
suspect the designers of the K7 inkset put a lot of effort into tuning this
inkset to achieve their target tones across as much of the dynamic range of
the printed image as possible.

> There should be no
> differential fading over time that will change the color of the print.

As noted above, there should not be differential fading with any of these
dedicated B&W inksets, but with time there will be some minor shifts due, in
large part, to the way the carbon and paper age.  Everything ultimately
fades, but these inksets are so good I would not worry about it (unless
you're in direct sun or outside).

> You don't have to spend time and resources (test prints) picking a tone
> - the tone is fixed. Because the tone of the ink is fixed, you can vary
> the tone of the print by varying the tone of the paper.

Many people prefer monotone inksets.  They are simpler to use.  That is a
big reason for the R220 R2 system being monotone (but with the ability to
change tones by putting in differing combinations of ink cartridges).  

As Bruce noted initially, to me the real issue is whether one wants a
variable-tone inkset or not.  I like both, and both have different
advantages.  The R2 is my latest, and it's monotone.  On the other hand, for
the 2400 I'm going for more control than the UT2 or UT7 (but probably no
sepia).  Many have no interest in tuning their inksets, but I do.  With the
2400 I think I can bring this ability to tune and profile a B&W inkset to a
new level.  It's a challenge I look forward to in 2006.

Happy New Year.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul Roark wrote:

> Bruce wrote:
>
> > The main disadvantage is the possibility of
> > differential fading over time pushing the print's tone warmer or cooler
> > than you intended.
>
> No, there should be no significant difference here.  I believe the K7 inks
> have differing amounts of color pigments mixed in.  I may be wrong 
> here, but
> I simply don't know of any pure carbon pigments that can print neutral 
> over
> the entire range of densities we're interested in.  It'll really take
> controlled, comparative fade testing to see what, if any, aging 
> differences
> there are from these inksets.  The differential fading problem occurs with
> color inksets that attempt to make a gray tone from color inks.
>
> A "neutral" tone that is composed of predominantly carbon will usually 
> have
> some color pigments mixed in.  These will fade faster than the carbon, but
> the carbon also shifts color.  So, there will be color change in either
> case.  What usually dominates in a reasonable time span (like one's 
> expected
> life span for normal display conditions) is the warming of the 
> carbon.  (If
> you're using brightened paper, the burning out of the optical brighteners
> may be the largest change -- which is a big reason I prefer paper with no
> OBAs.)

First, I don't know the compositions of the various inks. I don't see 
anything on the InkJetMall site that uses the words "carbon pigment" 
however. I'm not even sure I now how a carbon pigment ink differs from a 
pigment ink. Probably in the amount of carbon, but I have no idea where 
that line is drawn.

Second, I didn't say there would be any differential fading. I said 
there was a possibility of differential fading. It stands to reason that 
the possibility of differential fading would be greater for the inkset 
with the most color pigments. And a variable tone inkset is going to 
have to have more color pigments than a fixed tone inkset. It's the 
color pigments that provide the "variable" in the variable tone inkset 
after all.

That doesn't mean that the variable tone inkset will exhibit 
differential fading. That the possibility is greater doesn't mean that 
the actual amount of differential fading will be noticeable or 
objectionable.
--
Bruce Watson

I thought I understood from an e-mail from Jon Cone and his reply to 
Clayton Jones that the K7 did not contain any color pigments, but 
only Carbon and that the 'tone' was controlled by such proprietary 
things as particle size, etc.  I am inviting correction and/or 
clarification on this, however...

Michael Vendrell

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, hogarth@s... 
wrote:
>
> Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> > Bruce wrote:
> >
> > > The main disadvantage is the possibility of
> > > differential fading over time pushing the print's tone warmer 
or cooler
> > > than you intended.
> >
> > No, there should be no significant difference here.  I believe 
the K7 inks
> > have differing amounts of color pigments mixed in.  I may be 
wrong 
> > here, but
> > I simply don't know of any pure carbon pigments that can print 
neutral 
> > over
> > the entire range of densities we're interested in.  It'll really 
take
> > controlled, comparative fade testing to see what, if any, aging 
> > differences
> > there are from these inksets.  The differential fading problem 
occurs with
> > color inksets that attempt to make a gray tone from color inks.
> >
> > A "neutral" tone that is composed of predominantly carbon will 
usually 
> > have
> > some color pigments mixed in.  These will fade faster than the 
carbon, but
> > the carbon also shifts color.  So, there will be color change in 
either
> > case.  What usually dominates in a reasonable time span (like 
one's 
> > expected
> > life span for normal display conditions) is the warming of the 
> > carbon.  (If
> > you're using brightened paper, the burning out of the optical 
brighteners
> > may be the largest change -- which is a big reason I prefer 
paper with no
> > OBAs.)
> 
> First, I don't know the compositions of the various inks. I don't 
see 
> anything on the InkJetMall site that uses the words "carbon 
pigment" 
> however. I'm not even sure I now how a carbon pigment ink differs 
from a 
> pigment ink. Probably in the amount of carbon, but I have no idea 
where 
> that line is drawn.
> 
> Second, I didn't say there would be any differential fading. I 
said 
> there was a possibility of differential fading. It stands to 
reason that 
> the possibility of differential fading would be greater for the 
inkset 
> with the most color pigments. And a variable tone inkset is going 
to 
> have to have more color pigments than a fixed tone inkset. It's 
the 
> color pigments that provide the "variable" in the variable tone 
inkset 
> after all.
> 
> That doesn't mean that the variable tone inkset will exhibit 
> differential fading. That the possibility is greater doesn't mean 
that 

> the actual amount of differential fading will be noticeable or 
> objectionable.
> --
> Bruce Watson
>

> ... It stands to reason that
> the possibility of differential fading would be greater for the inkset
> with the most color pigments. And a variable tone inkset is going to
> have to have more color pigments than a fixed tone inkset. 

No, that's not necessarily correct.  The variable tone inkset image that is
printed with a neutral curve has essentially the same amount of color
pigments as a neutral monotone inkset where those pigments are pre-mixed.
The difference is whether the colorants are totally pre-mixed into the
entire inkset or whether they are contained in separate inks (still mixes of
carbon and color).  Then the ratio of the separate ink and the pure carbon
ink is varied to get a range of tones.

It is the Epson 2400 K3 "Advanced B&W" approach that uses more than the
minimum necessary color pigments.  Additionally, if the variable tone inkset
is printed with the sliders, there is more than the minimum color added.
However, variable tone inksets, when they are controlled via curves, use
essentially as little color pigments as is possible to get to the final tone
desired.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I believe we had to clarify this back then as well. Pretty sure the point was that they 
contain no dye, not no color. Jon went on to explain that each "dilution", for lack of a 
better term, was individually dealt with for neutrality. I would assume that this must be, at 
least partially, dealt with by color addition, and since not dye, then pigment.
I think Jon was careful to never state there is no color pigment in the mix.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mjvendrell2" <mjvendrell2@y...> 
wrote:

>
> I thought I understood from an e-mail from Jon Cone and his reply to 
> Clayton Jones that the K7 did not contain any color pigments, but 
> only Carbon and that the 'tone' was controlled by such proprietary 
> things as particle size, etc.  I am inviting correction and/or 
> clarification on this, however...
> 
> Michael Vendrell
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, hogarth@s... 
> wrote:
> >
> > Paul Roark wrote:
> > 
> > > Bruce wrote:
> > >
> > > > The main disadvantage is the possibility of
> > > > differential fading over time pushing the print's tone warmer 
> or cooler
> > > > than you intended.
> > >
> > > No, there should be no significant difference here.  I believe 
> the K7 inks
> > > have differing amounts of color pigments mixed in.  I may be 
> wrong 
> > > here, but
> > > I simply don't know of any pure carbon pigments that can print 
> neutral 
> > > over
> > > the entire range of densities we're interested in.  It'll really 
> take
> > > controlled, comparative fade testing to see what, if any, aging 
> > > differences
> > > there are from these inksets.  The differential fading problem 
> occurs with
> > > color inksets that attempt to make a gray tone from color inks.
> > >
> > > A "neutral" tone that is composed of predominantly carbon will 
> usually 
> > > have
> > > some color pigments mixed in.  These will fade faster than the 
> carbon, but
> > > the carbon also shifts color.  So, there will be color change in 
> either
> > > case.  What usually dominates in a reasonable time span (like 
> one's 
> > > expected
> > > life span for normal display conditions) is the warming of the 
> > > carbon.  (If
> > > you're using brightened paper, the burning out of the optical 
> brighteners
> > > may be the largest change -- which is a big reason I prefer 
> paper with no
> > > OBAs.)
> > 
> > First, I don't know the compositions of the various inks. I don't 
> see 
> > anything on the InkJetMall site that uses the words "carbon 
> pigment" 
> > however. I'm not even sure I now how a carbon pigment ink differs 
> from a 
> > pigment ink. Probably in the amount of carbon, but I have no idea 
> where 
> > that line is drawn.
> > 
> > Second, I didn't say there would be any differential fading. I 
> said 
> > there was a possibility of differential fading. It stands to 
> reason that 
> > the possibility of differential fading would be greater for the 
> inkset 
> > with the most color pigments. And a variable tone inkset is going 
> to 
> > have to have more color pigments than a fixed tone inkset. It's 
> the 
> > color pigments that provide the "variable" in the variable tone 
> inkset 
> > after all.
> > 
> > That doesn't mean that the variable tone inkset will exhibit 
> > differential fading. That the possibility is greater doesn't mean 
> that 
> > the actual amount of differential fading will be noticeable or 
> > objectionable.
> > --
> > Bruce Watson
> >
>

Perhaps, 
              someone out there would like to tell us what other "Black Pigments" are used for Inkjet if not carbon! 
   
  John
  

hogarth@... wrote:
  Paul Roark wrote:

> Bruce wrote:
>
> > The main disadvantage is the possibility of
> > differential fading over time pushing the print's tone warmer or cooler
> > than you intended.
>
> No, there should be no significant difference here.  I believe the K7 inks
> have differing amounts of color pigments mixed in.  I may be wrong 
> here, but
> I simply don't know of any pure carbon pigments that can print neutral 
> over
> the entire range of densities we're interested in.  It'll really take
> controlled, comparative fade testing to see what, if any, aging 
> differences
> there are from these inksets.  The differential fading problem occurs with
> color inksets that attempt to make a gray tone from color inks.
>
> A "neutral" tone that is composed of predominantly carbon will usually 
> have
> some color pigments mixed in.  These will fade faster than the carbon, but
> the carbon also shifts color.  So, there will be color change in either
> case.  What usually dominates in a reasonable time span (like one's 
> expected
> life span for normal display conditions) is the warming of the 
> carbon.  (If
> you're using brightened paper, the burning out of the optical brighteners
> may be the largest change -- which is a big reason I prefer paper with no
> OBAs.)

First, I don't know the compositions of the various inks. I don't see 
anything on the InkJetMall site that uses the words "carbon pigment" 
however. I'm not even sure I now how a carbon pigment ink differs from a 
pigment ink. Probably in the amount of carbon, but I have no idea where 
that line is drawn.

Second, I didn't say there would be any differential fading. I said 
there was a possibility of differential fading. It stands to reason that 
the possibility of differential fading would be greater for the inkset 
with the most color pigments. And a variable tone inkset is going to 
have to have more color pigments than a fixed tone inkset. It's the 
color pigments that provide the "variable" in the variable tone inkset 
after all.

That doesn't mean that the variable tone inkset will exhibit 
differential fading. That the possibility is greater doesn't mean that 
the actual amount of differential fading will be noticeable or 
objectionable.
--
Bruce Watson


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is a good question one of which I would like to know also.
From what I can gather there are more than one type of black pigment 
in the world besides pure carbon.And of course companies add things 
to these inks that they don't inform us about.

Jon does complicate the issue a bit when he also stated a while back 
that there are varieties of carbon pigment that are not warm. That 
was a new one to me. Can anyone give light to this?

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John 
<charleysfabrics@y...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps, 
>               someone out there would like to tell us what 
other "Black Pigments" are used for Inkjet if not carbon! 
>    
>   John

Paul Roark wrote:

>
>
> > ... It stands to reason that
> > the possibility of differential fading would be greater for the inkset
> > with the most color pigments. And a variable tone inkset is going to
> > have to have more color pigments than a fixed tone inkset.
>
> No, that's not necessarily correct.  The variable tone inkset image 
> that is
> printed with a neutral curve has essentially the same amount of color
> pigments as a neutral monotone inkset where those pigments are pre-mixed.
> The difference is whether the colorants are totally pre-mixed into the
> entire inkset or whether they are contained in separate inks (still 
> mixes of
> carbon and color).  Then the ratio of the separate ink and the pure carbon
> ink is varied to get a range of tones.

> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

I think it is necessarily correct. But I've been wrong before ;-) Please 
correct me if I'm wrong here:

The UT7 inkset appears to have two toner sets - three cool (cyan) inks 
and three warm (magenta) inks with a common black. Basically two 
quadtone inksets used together. It gets a neutral tone by mixing the 
cool and warm together. This is true, yes?

That the cool ink is cool means that it has a higher percentage of cyan 
pigment ink than the more neutral K7 does. It has to - it has a cooler 
tone. This is true, yes?

The warm side is similar - it has a higher percentage of magenta pigment 
than the K7 does. It has to to get the warmer tone. This is also true, yes?

These two inks, warm and cool, are then mixed on the paper to get the 
tone you want. This is how it works, is it not?

What happens when you print the same tone on paper with the K7 and UT7 
inksets? On paper, you get more neutral pigments with the K7 inkset. You 
get a higher percentage of color pigments on paper with the UT7 inkset. 
It's the nature of a variable tone inkset.
--
Bruce Watson

Yes, 
        what often happens is various "small" pigments are compounded together, say for example:-  Carbon Warm with selenium Blue then enclosed in a "clear" Polymer coating to produce a neutral Black and to add a dispersion capability to get even distribution in the ink solution.
   
  John_e

john dean <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
  That is a good question one of which I would like to know also.
From what I can gather there are more than one type of black pigment 
in the world besides pure carbon.And of course companies add things 
to these inks that they don't inform us about.

Jon does complicate the issue a bit when he also stated a while back 
that there are varieties of carbon pigment that are not warm. That 
was a new one to me. Can anyone give light to this?

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John 
<charleysfabrics@y...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps, 
>               someone out there would like to tell us what 
other "Black Pigments" are used for Inkjet if not carbon! 
>    
>   John






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
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---------------------------------
  

  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bruce,

> ...Please correct me if I'm wrong here:
> 
> The UT7 inkset appears to have two toner sets - three cool (cyan) inks
> and three warm (magenta) inks with a common black. Basically two
> quadtone inksets used together. It gets a neutral tone by mixing the
> cool and warm together. This is true, yes?

No, to simplify, with respect to making neutral prints the variable tone
inksets have 2 "channels" -- one pure carbon warm and one carbon with "blue"
pigments mixed in to make the ink cool.  (The mix that goes into the "blue"
toner varies -- basically cyan and magenta or R800 blue.)

What is important to note is that the warm channel is pure carbon -- no
color pigments at all.  It is not a "magenta" channel.  Actually MIS carbon
is essentially a low gamut yellow.


> That the cool ink is cool means that it has a higher percentage of cyan
> pigment ink than the more neutral K7 does.

Yes, but the color is not just cyan.  It's blue (a mix of cyan and magenta
or blue).

> The warm side is similar - it has a higher percentage of magenta pigment
> than the K7 does. It has to to get the warmer tone.

No, this is where the misunderstanding is.  The warm side is pure carbon.
Thus it has less color pigment than a neutral monotone inkset.  The mix of
the cool and warm channels simply brings the total carbon-to-color pigment
ratio to essentially the same as it would be if the mix was uniform in both
channels.

Having a pure carbon channel has been one of my design criteria, because I
want the ability to print a good pure carbon image.  For old photo
reproductions they look great and are the most lightfast.  So far, carbon is
the champ when it comes to longevity.  So, a pure carbon channel has been
one of my bottom line requirements.

> These two inks, warm and cool, are then mixed on the paper to get the
> tone you want. This is how it works, is it not?

Yes, that is correct.  But the warm channel is pure carbon -- no color pigs.

I hope this helps clarify the comparison for you.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Excellent. And interesting approach to the problem.

I stand corrected.
--
Bruce Watson



Paul Roark wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> > ...Please correct me if I'm wrong here:
> >
> > The UT7 inkset appears to have two toner sets - three cool (cyan) inks
> > and three warm (magenta) inks with a common black. Basically two
> > quadtone inksets used together. It gets a neutral tone by mixing the
> > cool and warm together. This is true, yes?
>
> No, to simplify, with respect to making neutral prints the variable tone
> inksets have 2 "channels" -- one pure carbon warm and one carbon with 
> "blue"
> pigments mixed in to make the ink cool.  (The mix that goes into the 
> "blue"
> toner varies -- basically cyan and magenta or R800 blue.)
>
> What is important to note is that the warm channel is pure carbon -- no
> color pigments at all.  It is not a "magenta" channel.  Actually MIS 
> carbon
> is essentially a low gamut yellow.
>
>
> > That the cool ink is cool means that it has a higher percentage of cyan
> > pigment ink than the more neutral K7 does.
>
> Yes, but the color is not just cyan.  It's blue (a mix of cyan and magenta
> or blue).
>
> > The warm side is similar - it has a higher percentage of magenta pigment
> > than the K7 does. It has to to get the warmer tone.
>
> No, this is where the misunderstanding is.  The warm side is pure carbon.
> Thus it has less color pigment than a neutral monotone inkset.  The mix of
> the cool and warm channels simply brings the total carbon-to-color pigment
> ratio to essentially the same as it would be if the mix was uniform in 
> both
> channels.
>
> Having a pure carbon channel has been one of my design criteria, because I
> want the ability to print a good pure carbon image.  For old photo
> reproductions they look great and are the most lightfast.  So far, 
> carbon is
> the champ when it comes to longevity.  So, a pure carbon channel has been
> one of my bottom line requirements.
>
> > These two inks, warm and cool, are then mixed on the paper to get the
> > tone you want. This is how it works, is it not?
>
> Yes, that is correct.  But the warm channel is pure carbon -- no color 
> pigs.
>
> I hope this helps clarify the comparison for you.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Merry Christmas to all of you.....

Just got out the epson ultra-premium glossy paper that my sister sent  
me for Christmas. I really like it.
it is heavy...11.8 mil
Not as shiny as premium glossy
Matches the gloss of the K3 inks much better than Kirkland, so less  
gloss dif.
With the premium gloss media selected, and my +4+4 settings on the  
ABW color wheel, this paper makes a great looking print.
Next to both Premium glossy and kirkland, it looks better. The  
surface is real nice.
I think that if you have not liked glossy papers up till now, you  
should give it a try.
For me the smaller the print, the more I like it to be glossy. These  
4x6 prints just look great sitting over there.
Even at a distance they stand out. The image is really deep. On a  
tabeltop with some other kirkland and prem-gloss prints, the ultras  
just stand right out. Might be the images because they are all  
diferent images etc, but they really have some pop.
Anyone else tried this?

Thanks to both Bruce and Paul for the discussion on this topic.  It 
was very helpful to me and gives me a better understanding of the 
different approaches taken with these inksets.  I'll probably give the 
MIS system a go some time in the future.  Is there a particular MIS 
inkset geared toward the 2200?

Best regards,
Tim

Yes. Take a look here:

http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm

Chris Hargens

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "new2jazz04"
<timboone@s...> wrote:

>
> Thanks to both Bruce and Paul for the discussion on this topic.  It 
> was very helpful to me and gives me a better understanding of the 
> different approaches taken with these inksets.  I'll probably give the 
> MIS system a go some time in the future.  Is there a particular MIS 
> inkset geared toward the 2200?
> 
> Best regards,
> Tim
>

Tim,

The UT7 inkset is a variable-tone inkset for the 2200 (and other first
generation UC printers).  See my Readme file on it at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT-2200-Readme.htm .

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> new2jazz04
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:52 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Piezography K7 vs. the rest
> 
> Thanks to both Bruce and Paul for the discussion on this topic.  It
> was very helpful to me and gives me a better understanding of the
> different approaches taken with these inksets.  I'll probably give the
> MIS system a go some time in the future.  Is there a particular MIS
> inkset geared toward the 2200?
> 
> Best regards,
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
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>

When I look at "For Use with Which Printers" on the Epson website this paper
does not appear to be recommended for the 2400 printer. 

 

Does anyone know whether this is a new paper? 

 

I could use a better very glossy paper. The Premium Glossy Photo Paper is
pretty good on the 2400, but not ideal. I have tried Pictorico Hi-Glass
White Film. It is interesting, but a little strange. I like Epson
Semi-Matte, but it is not available for the 2400.

 

Steve

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Douglas
meeuwsen
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:52 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] epson ultra premium?

 

Merry Christmas to all of you.....

Just got out the epson ultra-premium glossy paper that my sister sent  
me for Christmas. I really like it.
it is heavy...11.8 mil
Not as shiny as premium glossy
Matches the gloss of the K3 inks much better than Kirkland, so less  
gloss dif.
With the premium gloss media selected, and my +4+4 settings on the  
ABW color wheel, this paper makes a great looking print.
Next to both Premium glossy and kirkland, it looks better. The  
surface is real nice.
I think that if you have not liked glossy papers up till now, you  
should give it a try.
For me the smaller the print, the more I like it to be glossy. These  
4x6 prints just look great sitting over there.
Even at a distance they stand out. The image is really deep. On a  
tabeltop with some other kirkland and prem-gloss prints, the ultras  
just stand right out. Might be the images because they are all  
diferent images etc, but they really have some pop.
Anyone else tried this?


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hmmmm....I use the pr. semi gloss setting for pr. semi-matte, and it  
works fine for ABW, and so-so for color, but I did not have a  
profile.....I used pr. golssy setting for the ultra, and it looked  
great. Did not try color, and have not gotten a color profile yet. It  
is not really as glossy as premium glossy, but it is a better  
smoother, more uniform gloss. Less plastic looking. The print are a  
slightly diferent color than pr.Glossy. Maybe a bit warmer, or maybe  
more neutral from the shadows to the highlights. They definitle look  
better.

I think the paper is brand new in last few months. I went to the  
epson site, and you are right that they dont have it listed forthe  
2400. they have it listed for the 1800. Might it be because they dont  
have a profile for the combination yet? The gloss diferential is  
about perfect on the small number of images that i tried.
Interesting.....Doug M

On Dec 28, 2005, at 12:06 PM, Steve Bye wrote:

> When I look at "For Use with Which Printers" on the Epson website  
> this paper
> does not appear to be recommended for the 2400 printer.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know whether this is a new paper?
>
>
>
> I could use a better very glossy paper. The Premium Glossy Photo  
> Paper is
> pretty good on the 2400, but not ideal. I have tried Pictorico Hi- 
> Glass
> White Film. It is interesting, but a little strange. I like Epson
> Semi-Matte, but it is not available for the 2400.
>
>

<steve_bye@c...> wrote:
>
> When I look at "For Use with Which Printers" on the Epson website 
this paper
> does not appear to be recommended for the 2400 printer. 
>
 
You can use it in your 2400 or with any other K3 printer. You'll be 
fine.  

 
> Does anyone know whether this is a new paper? 

It's relatively new.


> I could use a better very glossy paper. The Premium Glossy Photo 
Paper is
> pretty good on the 2400, but not ideal. I have tried Pictorico Hi-
Glass
> White Film. 
>It is interesting, but a little strange. I like Epson
> Semi-Matte, but it is not available for the 2400.

What do you mean by "a little strange"?


Scott

My $.02 FWIW, is that I have found the MIS folks have always been very
easy to deal with. That is a statement I cannot make for IJM or Jon
Cone. It reached a point for me where I concluded I did not wish to do
business with the later. Others may have wonderful dealings with Jon
and not share my view. So consider my comments to be just one person's
input.

But ultimately you will need some support from the ink supplier.
Consider who it will be. 

Bob Michaels