Digital BW, The Print

Can someone help me with placing an adequate copyright protection notice for images on a 
website?  I don't want to have to watermark each image.  Does placing a short copyright 
notice on the main page provide reasonable protection?  What would such a notice look like?  
Given this is off-topic can you please respond off-list.  Thanks.

Steve

Steve,

Unfortunately, image protection on the web remains a difficult problem.

One way to create a more secure site is to go all flash. But I have 
chosen to discourage image theft on my site rather than go that route. 
I use a small java script to disable the "right-click", then I use a 
meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar. Lastly, I place a copyright 
notice alongside each image. I'll be happly to send you the code off 
line if desired.

None of this can absolutley prevent theft. But all the other soultions 
are costly, very time consuming or adversly affect image viewing - 
which is why they're there in the first place. And, I doubt any 
solution will thwart the most determined thief anyway.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Can someone help me with placing an adequate copyright protection 
notice for images on a 
> website?  I don't want to have to watermark each image.  Does 
placing a short copyright 
> notice on the main page provide reasonable protection?  What would 
such a notice look like?  

> Given this is off-topic can you please respond off-list.  Thanks.
> 
> Steve
>

William

I am just in the process of building a new web page.
If you could send me the scripts off line I would be
forever grateful.

Woody Spedden

--- William Cheadle <wpcheadle@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Steve,

Unfortunately, image protection on the web remains a
difficult problem.

One way to create a more secure site is to go all
flash. But I have 
chosen to discourage image theft on my site rather
than go that route. 
I use a small java script to disable the
"right-click", then I use a 
meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar. Lastly, I place
a copyright 
notice alongside each image. I'll be happly to send
you the code off 
line if desired.

None of this can absolutley prevent theft. But all the
other soultions 
are costly, very time consuming or adversly affect
image viewing - 
which is why they're there in the first place. And, I
doubt any 
solution will thwart the most determined thief anyway.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"Steve Kale" 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Can someone help me with placing an adequate
copyright protection 
notice for images on a 
> website?  I don't want to have to watermark each
image.  Does 
placing a short copyright 
> notice on the main page provide reasonable
protection?  What would 
such a notice look like?  
> Given this is off-topic can you please respond
off-list.  Thanks.
> 
> Steve
>






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Does this work with a Mac browser?

On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Elwood Spedden wrote:

> I use a small java script to disable the
> "right-click", then I use a
> meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar

My own thoughts on this are to just put smaller images on the page that
are useless for anything but viewing on the web.  Even with your java
and meta tags a knowledgeable computer person can beat them. If you
really want to beat the criminal, use a database to hold your images in
a cut up form then piece them together in your php/xhtml code so that
they look like one image rather than say 4 pieces.

Mark Hilliard
Fine Art Nature Photographs from
www.carolina-wildlife.com

It'll work with any browser that has Javascript enabled. For security 
reasons, users can disable Javascript in most browsers.

Mark Savoia wrote:

> Does this work with a Mac browser?
>
> On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Elwood Spedden wrote:
>
> > I use a small java script to disable the
> > "right-click", then I use a
> > meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar
>
>
>

I think Firefox would still allow you to grab the images, if not then 
you can probably find them in the cache.

Or just do a screen capture of anything at anytime.

On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Greg wrote:

> I think Firefox would still allow you to grab the images, if not then
> you can probably find them in the cache.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

the java script should be platform independent, but the meta tag that 
disables the Windows toolbar is strictly a Windows thing - haven't 
tested it in anything but IE...actually, the thieves most likely run 
in something else, so this will just deter the casual thief...of 
course it would be nice to think my images are worth the extra effort 
to steal them...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
<mark@c...> wrote:

>
> Does this work with a Mac browser?
> 
> On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Elwood Spedden wrote:
> 
> > I use a small java script to disable the
> > "right-click", then I use a
> > meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar
>

I know we are all concerned with this image theft issue, but where  
does everyone think they are being used afterwards? Do you think they  
just print them out, looking like crap due to low PPI, or do you  
think they put them up on their web sites? I would assume they would  
not use them to get work since if they have to steal good images -  
they probably can't shoot any.
Mark

On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:04 AM, William Cheadle wrote:

> the java script should be platform independent, but the meta tag that
> disables the Windows toolbar is strictly a Windows thing - haven't
> tested it in anything but IE...actually, the thieves most likely run
> in something else, so this will just deter the casual thief...of
> course it would be nice to think my images are worth the extra effort
> to steal them...
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Does this work with a Mac browser?
> >
> > On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Elwood Spedden wrote:
> >
> > > I use a small java script to disable the
> > > "right-click", then I use a
> > > meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for all those who replied on and off list.  As a general rule I don't
want to disable or force upon a viewer certain conditions (eg toolbar
removal or forced full-screen).  If there is a way for the user to toggle
removal of the toolbar or full screen then I will suggest they do so for
optimal viewing.  So far I have suggested that PC users hit F11 and that Mac
users Auto Show/Hide the Dock.  Is there something more I can suggest? I
think I am going to go with a very simple copyright statement/slug on the
initial page and leave it at that.  I want to keep the images as small as
possible so am happy with the meta data stripped.  My only concern is that
should I ever find one of my little web images elsewhere I can clearly point
to my intention to enforce copyright.  Although I must say that I'd be quite
flattered if I did.  I've still got a lot to do on the site but have the
general layout largely sorted.

Thanks again.

Steve

Mark,
I agree. They're of no commercial value that I can see at these small 
sizes. And if someone wants them for school work, or collages, or 
whatever then fine by me. It's my 200MB files that I protect, not 
diddley little jpegs! But, does anyone think I've missed something here? 
If so, please speak up.
Steve Gledhill ----- http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/

Mark Savoia wrote:

>I know we are all concerned with this image theft issue, but where  
>does everyone think they are being used afterwards? Do you think they  
>just print them out, looking like crap due to low PPI, or do you  
>think they put them up on their web sites? I would assume they would  
>not use them to get work since if they have to steal good images -  
>they probably can't shoot any.
>Mark
>
>On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:04 AM, William Cheadle wrote:
>
>  
>
>>the java script should be platform independent, but the meta tag that
>>disables the Windows toolbar is strictly a Windows thing - haven't
>>tested it in anything but IE...actually, the thieves most likely run
>>in something else, so this will just deter the casual thief...of
>>course it would be nice to think my images are worth the extra effort
>>to steal them...
>>
>>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>><mark@c...> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Does this work with a Mac browser?
>>>
>>>On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Elwood Spedden wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I use a small java script to disable the
>>>>"right-click", then I use a
>>>>meta-tag to kill the Windows tool bar
>>>>        
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>>resources as they are often being updated.
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>>wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
>>visiting this same page.
>>
>>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
>>to keep them short.
>>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
>>flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
>>from the membership without notice.
>>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
>>B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
>>removed from the membership.
>>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
>>and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
>>group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd  
>>in the Files section:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>>PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
>>\ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
>>NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
>>CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
>>DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
>>INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL  
>>BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
>>SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
>>THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
>>OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
>>CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
>>GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>>
>>
>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>> Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
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>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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Unless people use them on their websites.  For example a travel company
swiping your safari picks for their own use on their website or something
similar.  But I agree enforcement is next to impossible...

> From: Steve Gledhill <stephengledhill@...>

> 
> Mark,
> I agree. They're of no commercial value that I can see at these small
> sizes. And if someone wants them for school work, or collages, or
> whatever then fine by me. It's my 200MB files that I protect, not
> diddley little jpegs! But, does anyone think I've missed something here?
> If so, please speak up.
> Steve Gledhill ----- http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
> 
> Mark Savoia wrote:
> 
>> I know we are all concerned with this image theft issue, but where
>> does everyone think they are being used afterwards? Do you think they
>> just print them out, looking like crap due to low PPI, or do you
>> think they put them up on their web sites? I would assume they would
>> not use them to get work since if they have to steal good images -
>> they probably can't shoot any.
>> Mark

If you really want to hide some info within the images, you might want 
to take a look through the links on this page:

http://www.jjtc.com/Steganography/

You might be able to hide a small mount of data consisting of the 
copyright info. Then if you found an image where it wasn't supposed to 
be, you might be able to prove it was yours.

If you really want to protect and trace your images there is Digimarc.
http://www.digimarc.com/
Adobe has been pushing it for years, it does cost.  I don't know of
anyone who has used it, anyone out there?

William

This is the general approach that DigiMarc uses to embed a watermark that is
invisible to the viewer. It is probably the most well-known way to track
images across the web, if you want to pay the yearly sub and also subscribe
to their image-spider system.

Jim


On 1/5/06 1:32 PM, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Subject: Re: OT:  Copyright protection of images on a webpage
> 
> If you really want to hide some info within the images, you might want
> to take a look through the links on this page:
> 
> http://www.jjtc.com/Steganography/
> 
> You might be able to hide a small mount of data consisting of the
> copyright info. Then if you found an image where it wasn't supposed to
> be, you might be able to prove it was yours.

On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:53 AM, William John Smith wrote:

> If you really want to protect and trace your images there is Digimarc.
> http://www.digimarc.com/
> Adobe has been pushing it for years, it does cost.  I don't know of
> anyone who has used it, anyone out there?

I have for years through two employers; Digimarc does *not* protect  
images, it tags them to enable later (forensic) identification;  
there's also a spidering service that attempts to locate your  
DigiMarc'ed images if they are found on public sites that the service  
spiders. Protection would imply some proactive method of preventing  
inappropriate use; DigiMarc'ed images are *just* as easy to steal off  
a web page as any other JPEG.

We currently only use it as a means to identify sites that are  
inappropriately reproducing our imagery; the reports go to a lawyer  
who assesses the use, and if inappropriate sends a letter asking them  
to remove it, or at least change how it is presented.

-R

When I've had images published in books and magazines I haven't asked 
the publisher to overprint them with a watermark or anything else to 
prevent people putting them on a scanner and copy them. From those 
images I could make commercial size files, large enough for repro at 
roughly the same size and quality as the printed image.

 From an image on a web site, at say 600x400 pixels its easy to get a 
good enough file for web use, or for a smallish print. But anyone who 
wants to use them seriously off-line is going to contact me for a larger 
file.

I don't think its sensible to worry too much about your on-line images. 
Yes, they will be downloaded and used, but very seldom in any way that 
loses you any income. (And if your pictures are good,  having them on 
line will generate income.)  I'm happy for students to print out a copy 
for their essays and most other non-profit uses that people make of my 
stuff (a few are good enough to write and ask.)

I include this:

<meta http-equiv="imagetoolbar" content="no">

in the source of every page because I find the image tool bar a nuisance 
when viewing pages. I wouldn't dream of disabling right click, because 
it annoys some users and there are legitimate uses of it. Pages that 
disable it are far less likely to appear in my blog for example, because 
I have Movable Type on the right-click menu.

The other thing I suggest you include on every page (though I think it 
is enough to put it on the front page of the site) is a normal copyright 
notice - just like you would in a book.

\ufffd 2006, Peter Marshall

I sometimes include this in the alt text for each image as well, just as 
a reminder.

I rather feel anything beyond this is paranoia, although this has been 
whipped up rather by those wanting to market various solutions to what I 
think is really a non-problem.

Regards,

Peter

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...    
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



Mark Savoia wrote:

>Or just do a screen capture of anything at anytime.
>
>On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Greg wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I think Firefox would still allow you to grab the images, if not then
>>you can probably find them in the cache.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>