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2006-01-28 by sonrisenc
I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0) Sonrise
2006-01-28 by H. Averbach
State your question(s); let others decide if they wish/are able to respond.
sonrisenc <sonrisenc@...> wrote: I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for
B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere
besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0)
Sonrise
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-01-29 by Tom Baker
It's b&w printing, not just Epson. But, there aren't many folks printing b&w on anything but Epson. I guess, mostly because of the Epsons ability to run pigment inks.
Tom Baker
sonrisenc <sonrisenc@...> wrote:
I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for
B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere
besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0)
Sonrise
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-01-29 by Greg
Someone started a non epson B/W group a while back, don't know how much traffic there is or what they URL is.
2006-01-29 by Adam Maas
I print occasionally with my 7660 and the Photo Grey cart when I need fine highlight detail and don't mind the lack of a true matte paper. The output on HP paper is excellent, but I wouldn't call it archival and I distinctly prefer the look of BO printing on my C86. -Adam sonrisenc wrote:
> I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for > B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere > besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0) > > Sonrise > > > >
2006-01-29 by Matti Koskinen
Adam Maas wrote: > I print occasionally with my 7660 and the Photo Grey cart when I need > fine highlight detail and don't mind the lack of a true matte paper. The > output on HP paper is excellent, but I wouldn't call it archival and I > distinctly prefer the look of BO printing on my C86. > > -Adam > I have HP Deskjet 9800 and couldn't be happier. No clogging as I had constantly with Epsons. The output is great, though the carts are too small for a 13x19" printer and they are costly. But when I found out that this printer can print BO prints too, and they are not bad at all, I have mostly printed BO. There's my show going on a local gallery, and I've sold already some prints and the people's comments are positive, so I think the output can't be all crap. The dot size is little bit bigger than on my Epson C64, when printing BO, but the Epson OEM black ink is much warmer than HP black. Also the HP black is pigment ink. I've been printing on Epson Radiant White Watercolor paper and I like the prints even more than prints printed on Prem. plus with the gray cart. And it's much cheaper. -matti
> > sonrisenc wrote: > > >>I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for >>B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere >>besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0) >> >>Sonrise >> >
2006-01-29 by Adam Maas
Matti Koskinen wrote: > Adam Maas wrote: > > I print occasionally with my 7660 and the Photo Grey cart when I need > > fine highlight detail and don't mind the lack of a true matte paper. > The > > output on HP paper is excellent, but I wouldn't call it archival and I > > distinctly prefer the look of BO printing on my C86. > > > > -Adam > > > I have HP Deskjet 9800 and couldn't be happier. No clogging as I had > constantly with Epsons. The output is great, though the carts are too > small for a 13x19" printer and they are costly. But when I found out > that this printer can print BO prints too, and they are not bad at all, > I have mostly printed BO. There's my show going on a local gallery, and > I've sold already some prints and the people's comments are positive, so > I think the output can't be all crap. The dot size is little bit bigger > than on my Epson C64, when printing BO, but the Epson OEM black ink is > much warmer than HP black. Also the HP black is pigment ink. I've been > printing on Epson Radiant White Watercolor paper and I like the prints > even more than prints printed on Prem. plus with the gray cart. And it's > much cheaper. > > -matti > Interesting, that complicates my search for a wide-format printer. Right now I was heavily leaning towards the 1280 with Eboni, but I'm aware of clogging issues with that setup and of course the 2400 doesn't do BO. -Adam
2006-01-29 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 1/28/06 1:14:28 PM, sonrisenc@... writes: > I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for > B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere > besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0) > HPs offer best longevity with swellable polymer gloss and luster media, so those looking for art paper prints tend to use Epsons. Many of the tools for specialty inks and drivers are available mostly for Epsons as well. If you are talking about HP DeskJet desktop photo printers, with their black and two gray inks, these can certainly be used for B&W prints, but the cost is high, and the control tools are minimal. If you are talking about HP DesignJet medium and wide format printers, then the linearization functions allow for good ICC profiling for printing Black and White images with color inks, but there are inherent limitations to this method. There are one or two other HP possibilities as well. So, there are those who are involved in printing B&W on HP printers, its just a more limited area, typically of less interest to the experimenters that populate this list, than the Epson (or even the Canon) alternatives. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision, Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-01-30 by sonrisenc
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "H. Averbach" <haverbach@y...> wrote: > > State your question(s); let others decide if they wish/are able to respond. > OK. Fair enough. Here's my question. Is there anyone using HP deskjet printers to make gallery-quality monochrome prints on fine art paper? Usenet is flooded with Epson information. I'd like to not reinvent the wheel, so to speak, if someone has a useful workflow for HP deskjets. Do you print with HP or Epson? Sonrise
2006-01-30 by sonrisenc
Is it OK to top post here? :0) >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@s...> wrote: > > It's b&w printing, not just Epson. But, there aren't many folks >printing b&w on anything but Epson. Thanks for your comments. I joined this group because it is not Epson specific, but almost all the posts are related to Epson equipment anyway. Perhaps it is as you suggest -- nearly everyone is printing using Epsons. > I guess, mostly because of the Epsons ability to run pigment inks. > > Tom Baker > As far as pigmented inks are concerned, HP does make pigmented (black) inks for its printers, so I'm certain the printheads can use pigmented inks as easily as dye-based inks. However, black only printing is not what I am interested in. I hope to soon experiment with MIS hextone inks in my Deskjet 9800. I will happily post the results of my experiments. Sonrise > sonrisenc <sonrisenc@y...> wrote: > I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for > B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere > besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0) > > Sonrise > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital photography college Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital photography course > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@...m > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2006-01-30 by H. Averbach
Unfortunately, the HP desktop printers with the gray cartridge (7960, 8450, etc.) are designed for swellable polymer papers ONLY -- HP glossy and semi-gloss are excellent. If you prefer true matt papers, look elsewhere (i.e., Epson).
Howard
sonrisenc <sonrisenc@...> wrote:
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "H. Averbach"
<haverbach@y...> wrote:
>
> State your question(s); let others decide if they wish/are able to
respond.
>
OK. Fair enough. Here's my question. Is there anyone using HP deskjet
printers to make gallery-quality monochrome prints on fine art paper?
Usenet is flooded with Epson information. I'd like to not reinvent the
wheel, so to speak, if someone has a useful workflow for HP deskjets.
Do you print with HP or Epson?
Sonrise
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-01-30 by sonrisenc
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@a... wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/28/06 1:14:28 PM, sonrisenc@y... writes: > > > > I'd like to touch base with anyone on this group using HP printers for > > B&W inkjet printing. There's got to be someone out there, somewhere > > besides me! Surely this group is not dedicated to Epson alone. :0) > > > > HPs offer best longevity with swellable polymer gloss and luster media, so > those looking for art paper prints tend to use Epsons. Many of the tools for > specialty inks and drivers are available mostly for Epsons as well. If you are > talking about HP DeskJet desktop photo printers, with their black and two gray > inks, these can certainly be used for B&W prints, but the cost is high, and the > control tools are minimal. If you are talking about HP DesignJet medium and > wide format printers, then the linearization functions allow for good ICC > profiling for printing Black and White images with color inks, but there are > inherent limitations to this method. There are one or two other HP possibilities as > well. So, there are those who are involved in printing B&W on HP printers, its > just a more limited area, typically of less interest to the experimenters > that populate this list, than the Epson (or even the Canon) alternatives. > > C. David Tobie > Product Technology Manager > ColorVision, Inc. > CDTobie@c... > www.colorvision.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Thanks for your comments. I would love to move up to a DesignJet, particularly since they are less expensive than Epson professional inkjet printers and the bulk inks are more affordable. It's not yet in my budget. I plan to print and sell monochrome portraits, so they need to last. HP papers are OK, but I find there is limited selection, and the larger papers (Super B) are quite expensive, at least in my local office supply stores. I get decent results using Epson heavyweight matte with the HP dye inks, but it is not archival. I would like to print on matte fine art (rag) paper. Your comments about the photo gray inks are consistent with my experience. There's just not enough ink in those carts for serious printing. I'm hoping the "limited" number of HP users you mentioned will respond. :0) I'm really just getting started with this notion of using HP products instead of Epson for B&W printing. I'm tempted to go out and purchase a 1280 and convert it to a CIS system, but right now I have more pressing needs for the $600 that setup would entail. See some of my other responses for my hair-brained plans. Sonrise
2006-01-30 by sonrisenc
I have used Epson matte papers in my Desklet 3820, a CMYK printer, with very good results. I made several stunning prints a year ago that show no signs of fading. I just want to make prints larger than 8x10! I suppose I should be able to get similar results using the 9800 tri-color and pigment black ink carts. But I also plan to experiment with Epson-compatible pigmented inks, i.e. the MIS hextones, in my 9800 carts. Sonrise --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "H. Averbach" <haverbach@y...> wrote: > > Unfortunately, the HP desktop printers with the gray cartridge (7960, 8450, etc.) are designed for swellable polymer papers ONLY -- HP glossy and semi-gloss are excellent. If you prefer true matt papers, look elsewhere (i.e., Epson). > > Howard > > sonrisenc <sonrisenc@y...> wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "H. Averbach" > <haverbach@y...> wrote: > > > > State your question(s); let others decide if they wish/are able to > respond. > > > > OK. Fair enough. Here's my question. Is there anyone using HP deskjet > printers to make gallery-quality monochrome prints on fine art paper? > > Usenet is flooded with Epson information. I'd like to not reinvent the > wheel, so to speak, if someone has a useful workflow for HP deskjets. > > Do you print with HP or Epson? > > Sonrise > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital photography college Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital photography course > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2006-01-30 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 1/30/06 12:04:14 PM, sonrisenc@... writes: > I have used Epson matte papers in my Desklet 3820, a CMYK printer, > with very good results. I made several stunning prints a year ago > that show no signs of fading. I just want to make prints larger than > 8x10! I suppose I should be able to get similar results using the > 9800 tri-color and pigment black ink carts. > One of the things you need to be checking for, is not just that the prints don't fade, or shift/fade over time, but that they do not change color in unpleasant ways under differing light sources; dye inks are not immune to this, nor are art papers, and printing B&W with CMYK inks is bound to produce variability of this type. I have a CMYK print made with a recent dye ink set on Entrada art paper that is a pleasant, slightly tinted tone under a 5000k proofing light (most observers would just call it black and white) that turns a glaring rust tone under incandescent... enough so that I've avoiding making further B&W prints with that color inkset. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-01-30 by Adam Maas
The older ones are dedicated (7x60's, 9x60's) to swellable inks, I'm not sure the same goes for the new Vivera inks on the latest printers. I've got the older ones though, and thus use my Epson for most B&W printing. -Adam H. Averbach wrote:
> Unfortunately, the HP desktop printers with the gray cartridge (7960, > 8450, etc.) are designed for swellable polymer papers ONLY -- HP glossy > and semi-gloss are excellent. If you prefer true matt papers, look > elsewhere (i.e., Epson). > > Howard > > sonrisenc <sonrisenc@...> wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "H. Averbach" > <haverbach@y...> wrote: > > > > State your question(s); let others decide if they wish/are able to > respond. > > > > OK. Fair enough. Here's my question. Is there anyone using HP deskjet > printers to make gallery-quality monochrome prints on fine art paper? > > Usenet is flooded with Epson information. I'd like to not reinvent the > wheel, so to speak, if someone has a useful workflow for HP deskjets. > > Do you print with HP or Epson? > > Sonrise > > > >
2006-01-30 by Nick H. Nugent
Hello Sonrise, I'm very interested in knowing the results of your experiment as I recently adopted an HP Designjet 30 for color printing and dedicated the Epson R1800 for monochrome printing as it has a frequently recurring yellow nozzle clogs. Though the Designjet printers have linearizing functions as part of their built-in color calibration, the only way I can make an acceptable monochrome print is to employ a Wasatch SoftRIP. For color work on non-HP media I also have to use SoftRIP as the printer dumps so much ink that instant dry microporous media just cannot handle. I suspect HP increased the Vivera/swellable longevity by using large amount of ink in a virtually bottomless swellable substrate. Still I think you may run into a clogging problem if you try to use the MIS hextone ink in your HP printer. But at least you can buy replacement printheads if you manage to clog them all up :) You also might want to make sure to flush all HP ink from your printer before loading the MIS ink. Good luck, --nick --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> wrote:
> > As far as pigmented inks are concerned, HP does make pigmented > (black) inks for its printers, so I'm certain the printheads can use > pigmented inks as easily as dye-based inks. However, black only > printing is not what I am interested in. > > I hope to soon experiment with MIS hextone inks in my Deskjet 9800. > I will happily post the results of my experiments. > > Sonrise
2006-01-30 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 1/30/06 1:50:27 PM, nghin@... writes: > Though the Designjet printers have linearizing functions as part of > their built-in color calibration, the only way I can make an > acceptable monochrome print is to employ a Wasatch SoftRIP. For color > work on non-HP media I also have to use SoftRIP as the printer dumps > so much ink that instant dry microporous media just cannot handle. I > suspect HP increased the Vivera/swellable longevity by using large > amount of ink in a virtually bottomless swellable substrate. > Yes, high ink densities are used for swellable media settings.. Microporous media with dye inks are great for throwaway uses, and definately require different ink loads. A RIP is one way to control this, but not the only way. The Media Setting Check step in PrintFIX PRO allows you to print an appropriate test image at a number of media settings and determine which is most appropriate for the media you are using. That, in conjunction with relinearizing the printer for that media category (even if its name is totally unrelated to the paper type involved) with that media, will get you to a point quite similar to what RIP controls offer. > > Still I think you may run into a clogging problem if you try to use > the MIS hextone ink in your HP printer. But at least you can buy > replacement printheads if you manage to clog them all up :) You also > might want to make sure to flush all HP ink from your printer before > loading the MIS ink. > One solution is to simply buy a new set of heads to go with your specialty inkset. This assures clean heads and no ink conflicts; but it also means you can swap out between inks (say, your color set, and your black and white set) smoothly, at will. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-01-30 by Nick H. Nugent
Thanks CD for your insightful contribution. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@a... wrote: > That, in conjunction with relinearizing the printer for that media > category (even if its name is totally unrelated to the paper > type involved) with that media, will get you to a point quite > similar to what RIP controls offer. Unfortunately I only linearize the printer using their own premium plus papers. I wish they had custom media types so you calibrate using say Costco Kirkland glossy media without messing up the calibration for HP PP glossy paper. Therefore my need to use a RIP for non-HP papers. > One solution is to simply buy a new set of heads to go with your > specialty inkset. This assures clean heads and no ink conflicts; but > it also means you can swap out between inks (say, your color set, > and your black and white set) smoothly, at will. My Designjet 30 has a built-in CIS so residual ink in the tubings may still cause a problem if the inks are in fact incompatible. So if you need to flush out old ink in the plumbing you might as well flush it out of the heads. I'd say it will be a major hassle in switching inksets in my printer. Thanks, --nick
2006-01-30 by sonrisenc
Hi Nick. Thanks for the reply. I've got my eye on a DesignJet, but the budget can't yet afford it. It's tempting to just go out and buy an Epson for the convenience, but frankly I'd rather save $$ towards a DesignJet than invest in an Epson with CIS set-up. Besides, I have a perfectly good printer already. The upshot of all this is that I want to be able to print (and sell) gallery-quality monochrome portraits. It may not be possible, but I'd like to try. Last month's Shutterbug had an article on a landscape photographer who's gone inkjet for his monochrome images. I think he uses RIP software and quadtone inks. [ No doubt he's printing with an Epson as well. :0) ] Your comments confirm what I've heard about the large format inkjets needing RIP software for high quality monochrome prints. Is the RIP software you're using generic, or does it require printer-specific profiles? I've looked at QuadtoneRIP, but it's only compatible with select Epson printers. I think the 9800 is capable of matching the Epson 1280 in print quality, but there's no aftermarket supplies for HP products! As far as the MIS ink "experiment" goes, I do plan to flush the old ink carts before loading the MIS inks. I've been warned by Bob Headrick that the pigmented inks may produce a sticky residue on the printheads and printer wipers. According to Bob, the 98 and 99 ink carts have smaller nozzles than the 96 black cart, producing 5pL droplets vs 15 pL droplets. My plans so far were predicated on similar nozzle sizes. I'm presently experimenting with Vivera-compatible, dye-based inks from WeInk. Results are positive so far. I'll be glad to let you know what happens with the MIS experiment. Then there's the issue of which paper to print on. Who knows, maybe I'll publish a web page on my "HP experiments" and become famous! LOL. Sonrise --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" <nghin@p...> wrote: > > Hello Sonrise, > > I'm very interested in knowing the results of your experiment as I > recently adopted an HP Designjet 30 for color printing and dedicated > the Epson R1800 for monochrome printing as it has a frequently > recurring yellow nozzle clogs. > > Though the Designjet printers have linearizing functions as part of > their built-in color calibration, the only way I can make an > acceptable monochrome print is to employ a Wasatch SoftRIP. For color > work on non-HP media I also have to use SoftRIP as the printer dumps > so much ink that instant dry microporous media just cannot handle. I > suspect HP increased the Vivera/swellable longevity by using large > amount of ink in a virtually bottomless swellable substrate. > > Still I think you may run into a clogging problem if you try to use > the MIS hextone ink in your HP printer. But at least you can buy > replacement printheads if you manage to clog them all up :) You also > might want to make sure to flush all HP ink from your printer before > loading the MIS ink. > > Good luck, > --nick > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" > <sonrisenc@y...> wrote: > > > > As far as pigmented inks are concerned, HP does make pigmented > > (black) inks for its printers, so I'm certain the printheads can use > > pigmented inks as easily as dye-based inks. However, black only > > printing is not what I am interested in. > > > > I hope to soon experiment with MIS hextone inks in my Deskjet 9800.
> > I will happily post the results of my experiments. > > > > Sonrise >
2006-01-31 by Nick H. Nugent
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> wrote: > > The upshot of all this is that I want to be able to print (and sell) > gallery-quality monochrome portraits.... I'm afraid you won't be able to achieve this with your Deskjet 9800 as I do not know of a RIP which supports it. > ... Is the RIP software you're using generic, or does it require > printer-specific profiles? I've looked at QuadtoneRIP, but it's only > compatible with select Epson printers. I use QuadtoneRIP on my R1800 for b/w but unfortunately I had to resort to Wasatch SoftRIP for b/w on the HP. > I think the 9800 is capable of matching the Epson 1280 in print > quality, but there's no aftermarket supplies for HP products!... This is strange. I thought Weink would have 3rd party ink for your printer but no such luck. They have the pigmented black for the 99 cart but none for the 98. I'm not that familiar with HP printer as the Designjet 30 is my first. > I've been warned by Bob Headrick that the pigmented inks may produce > a sticky residue on the printheads and printer wipers.... Sounds like I should not even try to use my Epson inks on the HP :( The Designjet 30 has 4 picoliter droplets. You may want to try the new HP pigmented inkset made for the new HP Designjet 5500 instead of Epson ink. As a matter of fact I was looking into this possibility. I'm also looking at the HP Vivera monochrome inks. The HP 5500 is still new so I'll wait and see if it will be prone to clogging as well. > I'll be glad to let you know what happens with the MIS experiment. > Then there's the issue of which paper to print on. If you succeed in using the MIS Epson inks in your HP you should be able to print on almost anything providing your printer driver has certain ability to perform some sort of ink limitting. But I still think Epson printers tend to be able to print on more media than HPs. > Who knows, maybe I'll publish a web page on my "HP experiments" and > become famous! LOL. I have benefitted from pioneers like you especially in this area of digital inkjet b/w. I've always wanted an inkjet printer that is like a Beseler enlarger and dark room equipments which do not care whether you are dealing with Kodak or Ilford or whatever films or papers. You should be able to use any ink, dial up or down the amount of ink deposited on a paper, etc. But it's looking more and more like a printer is nothing but an ink cartridge holder. Thankfully most Epson owners still enjoy the ability to customize their printers to a certain extent thanks to 3rd party inks and supplies, and for me the arrival of HP Vivera/swellable is a very welcomed alternative, and very good timing. --nick
2006-01-31 by sonrisenc
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" <nghin@p...> wrote: <snip> > > > > I think the 9800 is capable of matching the Epson 1280 in print > > quality, but there's no aftermarket supplies for HP products!... > > This is strange. I thought Weink would have 3rd party ink for your > printer but no such luck. They have the pigmented black for the 99 > cart but none for the 98. I'm not that familiar with HP printer as the > Designjet 30 is my first. Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant there are no sources for empty cartridges. They do have Vivera-compatible ink, which I have ordered and am presently using. > > > I've been warned by Bob Headrick that the pigmented inks may produce > > a sticky residue on the printheads and printer wipers.... > > Sounds like I should not even try to use my Epson inks on the HP : ( > The Designjet 30 has 4 picoliter droplets. You may want to try the new > HP pigmented inkset made for the new HP Designjet 5500 instead of > Epson ink. As a matter of fact I was looking into this possibility. > I'm also looking at the HP Vivera monochrome inks. The HP 5500 is > still new so I'll wait and see if it will be prone to clogging as well. > Thanks for the tip. You should not have to use Epson pigmented inks. WeInk has a bulk outlet that sells HP-compatible pigmented inks. The url is getinkexpress.com . But I would not know which to recommend for you. Call their toll-free number 800-559-3465. That being said, I have read that the newer Epson print heads are designed around a 3 pL droplet, so these pigmented inks should work fine with your 5 pL heads, right? > > I'll be glad to let you know what happens with the MIS experiment. > > Then there's the issue of which paper to print on. > > If you succeed in using the MIS Epson inks in your HP you should be > able to print on almost anything > That's what I'd like! >providing your printer driver has > certain ability to perform some sort of ink limitting. But I still > think Epson printers tend to be able to print on more media than HPs. > I plan to "trick" the printer into using the 9800's standard driver profile for the tri-color and photo-gray carts (which are used to make high-quality grayscale prints) by using the appropriate MIS substitues. These inks were made for six color printers like the Epson 220/320 with a direct replacement for C, M, Y, K, light C and light M. You mentioned flushing the old carts prior to refilling. Do you recommend any particular product or technique for this? > > Who knows, maybe I'll publish a web page on my "HP experiments" and > > become famous! LOL. > > I have benefitted from pioneers like you especially in this area of > digital inkjet b/w. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but "tinkerer" would be a better description of my abilities. :0) >I've always wanted an inkjet printer that is like > a Beseler enlarger and dark room equipments which do not care whether > you are dealing with Kodak or Ilford or whatever films or papers. You > should be able to use any ink, dial up or down the amount of ink > deposited on a paper, etc. > I share your desires in this regard. Perhaps one day we will get to this point. Sonrise
2006-01-31 by sinar001
You should all be aware that Piezzo print heads (Epson) and Thermal print heads (HP) require different viscosity/surface tension requirements from the inks they use for proper printing results. John Nollendorfs --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" > <nghin@p...> wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > > > I think the 9800 is capable of matching the Epson 1280 in print > > > quality, but there's no aftermarket supplies for HP products!... > > > > This is strange. I thought Weink would have 3rd party ink for your > > printer but no such luck. They have the pigmented black for the 99 > > cart but none for the 98. I'm not that familiar with HP printer as > the > > Designjet 30 is my first. > > > Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant there are no sources for > empty cartridges. They do have Vivera-compatible ink, which I have > ordered and am presently using. > > > > > > > I've been warned by Bob Headrick that the pigmented inks may > produce > > > a sticky residue on the printheads and printer wipers.... > > > > Sounds like I should not even try to use my Epson inks on the HP : > ( > > The Designjet 30 has 4 picoliter droplets. You may want to try the > new > > HP pigmented inkset made for the new HP Designjet 5500 instead of > > Epson ink. As a matter of fact I was looking into this possibility. > > I'm also looking at the HP Vivera monochrome inks. The HP 5500 is > > still new so I'll wait and see if it will be prone to clogging as > well. > > > > > Thanks for the tip. You should not have to use Epson pigmented inks. > WeInk has a bulk outlet that sells HP-compatible pigmented inks. The > url is getinkexpress.com . But I would not know which to recommend > for you. Call their toll-free number 800-559-3465. > > That being said, I have read that the newer Epson print heads are > designed around a 3 pL droplet, so these pigmented inks should work > fine with your 5 pL heads, right? > > > > > I'll be glad to let you know what happens with the MIS > experiment. > > > Then there's the issue of which paper to print on. > > > > If you succeed in using the MIS Epson inks in your HP you should be > > able to print on almost anything > > > > > That's what I'd like! > > > >providing your printer driver has > > certain ability to perform some sort of ink limitting. But I still > > think Epson printers tend to be able to print on more media than > HPs. > > > > > I plan to "trick" the printer into using the 9800's standard driver > profile for the tri-color and photo-gray carts (which are used to > make high-quality grayscale prints) by using the appropriate MIS > substitues. These inks were made for six color printers like the > Epson 220/320 with a direct replacement for C, M, Y, K, light C and > light M. > > You mentioned flushing the old carts prior to refilling. Do you > recommend any particular product or technique for this? > > > > > Who knows, maybe I'll publish a web page on my "HP experiments" > and > > > become famous! LOL. > > > > I have benefitted from pioneers like you especially in this area of > > digital inkjet b/w. > > > Thanks for the vote of confidence, but "tinkerer" would be a better > description of my abilities. :0) > > > >I've always wanted an inkjet printer that is like > > a Beseler enlarger and dark room equipments which do not care > whether > > you are dealing with Kodak or Ilford or whatever films or papers. > You > > should be able to use any ink, dial up or down the amount of ink > > deposited on a paper, etc. > > > > > I share your desires in this regard. Perhaps one day we will get to > this point. > > Sonrise >
2006-01-31 by sonrisenc
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" <jnolly@a...> wrote: > > You should all be aware that Piezzo print heads (Epson) and Thermal print heads (HP) > require different viscosity/surface tension requirements from the inks they use for proper > printing results. > > John Nollendorfs Thanks, John. I think this is what Bob Headrick was getting at as well. I expect the HP heads to tolerate some pigments because HP offers pigmented black inks with most of its printers. The issue for me will be whether the color carts can handle these pigments, which is the focus of my upcoming experiment. I'll discuss some of these issues with MIS before placing my order. I'll be sure to post whatever information I get from MIS. I'm certainly getting a lot of useful info from this group! This is what I have found missing when it comes to internet resources for HP printers in general, while there is an overabundance of info for Epson. Thanks again. Sonrise
2006-01-31 by sinar001
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" > <jnolly@a...> wrote: > > > > You should all be aware that Piezzo print heads (Epson) and Thermal > print heads (HP) > > require different viscosity/surface tension requirements from the > inks they use for proper > > printing results. > > > > John Nollendorfs > > > Thanks, John. I think this is what Bob Headrick was getting at as > well. I expect the HP heads to tolerate some pigments because HP > offers pigmented black inks with most of its printers. The issue for > me will be whether the color carts can handle these pigments, which > is the focus of my upcoming experiment. > > I'll discuss some of these issues with MIS before placing my order. > I'll be sure to post whatever information I get from MIS. > > I'm certainly getting a lot of useful info from this group! This is > what I have found missing when it comes to internet resources for HP > printers in general, while there is an overabundance of info for > Epson. > > Thanks again. > > Sonrise Piezo printers tend to be much more tolerant of viscosity/surface tension issues than are the thermal printers. Maybe this is why there is much more information available? Also, until Epson put "chips" on their carts, it was very easy to refill and use third party carts, back in the "good old days". With inexpensive chip resetters, and good CIS systems, Epson system still seem to rule the "roost". HP & Canon systems originally replaced the print head as you replaced the ink. The print head on these disposable carts tended to wear out quite quickly, allowing perhaps one, maybe two refills before becoming unusable. Third party empty HP carts were not available because of the very specialized equipment necessary to produce the integral print heads. John Nollendorfs
2006-01-31 by sonrisenc
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" <jnolly@a...> wrote: > > > Piezo printers tend to be much more tolerant of viscosity/surface tension issues than are > the thermal printers. Maybe this is why there is much more information available? Also, > until Epson put "chips" on their carts, it was very easy to refill and use third party carts, > back in the "good old days". With inexpensive chip resetters, and good CIS systems, Epson > system still seem to rule the "roost". > > HP & Canon systems originally replaced the print head as you replaced the ink. The print > head on these disposable carts tended to wear out quite quickly, allowing perhaps one, > maybe two refills before becoming unusable. Third party empty HP carts were not available > because of the very specialized equipment necessary to produce the integral print heads. > > John Nollendorfs > I was unaware the HP cart heads had such limited use. Hmmmmmmm.... maybe I should plan to purchase a 1280 for CIS conversion and sell the 9800.... Sonrise
2006-01-31 by Tom Baker
Or, get a 2200/2400 instead of the 1280.
Tom Baker
sonrisenc <sonrisenc@...> wrote:
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001"
<jnolly@a...> wrote:
>
>
> Piezo printers tend to be much more tolerant of viscosity/surface
tension issues than are
> the thermal printers. Maybe this is why there is much more
information available? Also,
> until Epson put "chips" on their carts, it was very easy to refill
and use third party carts,
> back in the "good old days". With inexpensive chip resetters, and
good CIS systems, Epson
> system still seem to rule the "roost".
>
> HP & Canon systems originally replaced the print head as you
replaced the ink. The print
> head on these disposable carts tended to wear out quite quickly,
allowing perhaps one,
> maybe two refills before becoming unusable. Third party empty HP
carts were not available
> because of the very specialized equipment necessary to produce the
integral print heads.
>
> John Nollendorfs
>
I was unaware the HP cart heads had such limited use. Hmmmmmmm....
maybe I should plan to purchase a 1280 for CIS conversion and sell
the 9800....
Sonrise
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-01-31 by sinar001
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" > <jnolly@a...> wrote: > > > > > > Piezo printers tend to be much more tolerant of viscosity/surface > tension issues than are > > the thermal printers. Maybe this is why there is much more > information available? Also, > > until Epson put "chips" on their carts, it was very easy to refill > and use third party carts, > > back in the "good old days". With inexpensive chip resetters, and > good CIS systems, Epson > > system still seem to rule the "roost". > > > > HP & Canon systems originally replaced the print head as you > replaced the ink. The print > > head on these disposable carts tended to wear out quite quickly, > allowing perhaps one, > > maybe two refills before becoming unusable. Third party empty HP > carts were not available > > because of the very specialized equipment necessary to produce the > integral print heads. > > > > John Nollendorfs > > > > I was unaware the HP cart heads had such limited use. Hmmmmmmm.... > maybe I should plan to purchase a 1280 for CIS conversion and sell > the 9800.... > > Sonrise >
2006-01-31 by sinar001
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" > <jnolly@a...> wrote: SNIP > > > > HP & Canon systems originally replaced the print head as you > replaced the ink. The print > > head on these disposable carts tended to wear out quite quickly, > allowing perhaps one, > > maybe two refills before becoming unusable. Third party empty HP > carts were not available > > because of the very specialized equipment necessary to produce the > integral print heads. > > > > John Nollendorfs > > > > I was unaware the HP cart heads had such limited use. Hmmmmmmm.... > maybe I should plan to purchase a 1280 for CIS conversion and sell > the 9800.... > > Sonrise Some of the larger HP printers (Design jet 130) and the Canon printers have user replaceable print heads separate from the ink cart. But looking at the HP 9800, I see it has the print head integral with the ink. Yes, by all means, I think you would be better off with an Epson 1280 & CIS, depending on how much printing you do. The trouble with CIS systems and pigmented inks, is that the pigments tend to settle. If you don't go through 4 oz of ink in a month, you will at some time notice the effects of settling ink. Another option, if you don't print that much is consider the new "spongeless" refillable carts. These are considerably cheaper than a CIS for the 1280. The 1280 5-color empty carts with chip are only $6 @. A kit with carts, ink & chip resetter is about $130 from MIS. The other nice thing about using these "spongeless carts" instead of a CIS, is you can change from color to quad tone B&W printing very quickly and easily. John Nollendorfs
2006-01-31 by sonrisenc
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" <jnolly@a...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sonrisenc" <sonrisenc@y...> > wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinar001" > > <jnolly@a...> wrote: > SNIP > > > > > > HP & Canon systems originally replaced the print head as you > > replaced the ink. The print > > > head on these disposable carts tended to wear out quite quickly, > > allowing perhaps one, > > > maybe two refills before becoming unusable. Third party empty HP > > carts were not available > > > because of the very specialized equipment necessary to produce the > > integral print heads. > > > > > > John Nollendorfs > > > > > > > I was unaware the HP cart heads had such limited use. Hmmmmmmm.... > > maybe I should plan to purchase a 1280 for CIS conversion and sell > > the 9800.... > > > > Sonrise > > Some of the larger HP printers (Design jet 130) and the Canon printers have user > replaceable print heads separate from the ink cart. But looking at the HP 9800, I see it has > the print head integral with the ink. > > Yes, by all means, I think you would be better off with an Epson 1280 & CIS, depending on > how much printing you do. The trouble with CIS systems and pigmented inks, is that the > pigments tend to settle. If you don't go through 4 oz of ink in a month, you will at some > time notice the effects of settling ink. > > Another option, if you don't print that much is consider the new "spongeless" refillable > carts. These are considerably cheaper than a CIS for the 1280. The 1280 5-color empty > carts with chip are only $6 @. A kit with carts, ink & chip resetter is about $130 from MIS. > > The other nice thing about using these "spongeless carts" instead of a CIS, is you can > change from color to quad tone B&W printing very quickly and easily. > > John Nollendorfs > Will keep that in mind. Thanks. Want to buy a little used 9800? :0) Sonrise