Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2006-04-07 by Ernst Dinkla
I though it would take a bit more time after the iPF5000 but:
http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm/hurl/id%7C2503
says a real wide format is soon available, June 2006.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-07 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote: > > I though it would take a bit more time after the iPF5000 but: > > http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm/hurl/id%7C2503 > > says a real wide format is soon available, June 2006. > > Ernst > -- Well they had to beat Epson's announcement of the same thing of course. The big question is when will it really come to market? If they hit the June proposal, then they might beat Epson to market (since Epson has not yet announced a new 12 ink printer, nor a wider format machine, but rumors have been circulating).
2006-04-07 by aromanocpa@optonline.net
Things are improving so fast that my head is spinning.....what next [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-04-08 by John
Hi Greg,
I have been in the UK at Ipex all this last week and saw 4 of these Machines in working order, well the quality and detail of these printers, PLUS their speed, was the best I have seen anywhere. I would say that all of the other OEM's had better put there thinking caps on!!!!
John_E
Greg <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@...> wrote:
>
> I though it would take a bit more time after the iPF5000 but:
>
> http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm/hurl/id%7C2503
>
> says a real wide format is soon available, June 2006.
>
> Ernst
> --
Well they had to beat Epson's announcement of the same thing of course.
The big question is when will it really come to market? If they hit the
June proposal, then they might beat Epson to market (since Epson has
not yet announced a new 12 ink printer, nor a wider format machine, but
rumors have been circulating).
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
SPONSORED LINKS
Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital photography college Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital photography course
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-08 by lulalake_1999
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John <charleysfabrics@...> wrote: > > Hi Greg, > I have been in the UK at Ipex all this last week and saw 4 of these Machines in working order, well the quality and detail of these printers, PLUS their speed, was the best I have seen anywhere. I would say that all of the other OEM's had better put there thinking caps on!!!! > > John_E > This sounds great, the concerns of course are can one use Hanhemuhle or Innova on there leviathons? and what's the longevity of these "Last Supper" (Canon and the 12 inks)inks? :-) Jules
2006-04-08 by john dean
All I know is that HP has already made a deal with Hahnemuhle who is making rag papers for their thermal head machines that have already been fade tested. There is a large format Canon yahoo list and you can ask more over there about media on these machines, but my impression is that you can run anything through them, rag, canvas, glossy, etc, and without having to switch out the black ink because both are incorporated in the design. They have already paid Wilhelm to do tests and Canon's first documentation are that they are >100 Wilhelm years for color without special treatment. HP has done the same with their new pigments and their figures are >200 Wilhelm years for color and they even have ads on tv promoting the new pigments. But, there is a lot about media compatabily that we are still learning about. And I don't know anything about price for the newer printers. I am VERY interested to see how these printers hold up with monochrome though. Some on the Canon list who is using one of the newer large machines who also has a 7600, said something like everyone would prefer one of these Canons for everything, unless they specialize in black and white. That worries me a bit. John --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John > <charleysfabrics@> wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > I have been in the UK at Ipex all this last week and saw 4 of > these Machines in working order, well the quality and detail of these > printers, PLUS their speed, was the best I have seen anywhere. I would > say that all of the other OEM's had better put there thinking caps > on!!!! > > > > John_E > > > > This sounds great, the concerns of course are can one use Hanhemuhle or > Innova on there leviathons? and what's the longevity of these "Last > Supper" (Canon and the 12 inks)inks? :-) > > Jules >
2006-04-08 by Ernst Dinkla
> I am VERY interested to see how these printers hold up with monochrome
> though. Some on the Canon list who is using one of the newer large
> machines who also has a 7600, said something like everyone would
> prefer one of these Canons for everything, unless they specialize in
> black and white. That worries me a bit.
>
> John
He has the CcMmYK model so no extra grey inks and compares it
to the 9800. It will be different with the 12 ink models with
(MK)(PK)-LK-LLK- on board and Blue and Red or more to tone.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-08 by Ernst Dinkla
This is more of a problem for us here:
http://www.canon-europe.com/Images/13_349079.pdf
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
Ok, I'll be the one to finally ask... Who here needs a 60" printer? Tyler
2006-04-08 by Ernst Dinkla
Tyler Boley wrote:
> Ok, I'll be the one to finally ask...
>
> Who here needs a 60" printer?
>
> Tyler
In this list, I don't know. On the market, the Roland d'Vinci
has similar specs, from 50" up to 72" sizes and I estimate 2x
the price while printing slower. So there is a market in art
printing, signs and some 8x10 photographers will at last be
able to show that size matters:-)
Canvas is available at 60" right now. Innova paper too. Canon
plans to have 50 papers available at the end of the year and
is at 30 now. Hahnemuhle among it.
Printer width doesn't translate to big prints only. It speeds
printing up and could make smaller prints on a wider roll
cheaper than on a smaller roll just because it nests better.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-08 by Ernst Dinkla
John wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> I have been in the UK at Ipex all this last week and saw 4 of these Machines in working order, well the quality and detail of these printers, PLUS their speed, was the best I have seen anywhere. I would say that all of the other OEM's had better put there thinking caps on!!!!
>
> John_E
What also surprises me is the complete silence so far and the
speed they put it on the market. The new A3 10 color models
were already announced but you have to wait till autumn 2006,
this one and the iPF5000 should be available this summer.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-08 by Greg
All I can say is that now it looks like Canon caught Epson with their pants down. If they have functional machines at the shows, then they can probably hit the expected market by June, only problem might be that heir expected market might be larger than they think. Might see a bunch of used Epson x800 printers on ebay for dirt cheap real soon (depending on the actual price of these new Canon machines). When you consider the price of the 6 ink Canon wide format is still higher than the price of the 8 ink Epson machines, they may or may not sell that many. Guess we'll find out in another 2 months or so. Mostly I think it's great to have some (hopefully) lower priced competition to Epson machines. The Da'Vinci is all great, but the cost is a killer. It'll also be interesting to see how the third party ink market keeps up with these new thermal printers.
2006-04-08 by hogarth@snappydsl.net
Tyler Boley wrote: > Ok, I'll be the one to finally ask... > > Who here needs a 60" printer? > > Tyler I'd consider one. The problem with a 44" printer is canvas. Specifically, the amount of canvas that you have to take from the image area so you can wrap and stretch. This is especially bad when doing a gallery wrap. With decent stretchers the practical limit for an image on the front of the assembly is about 38." Yes, you can make a bigger image, but whoever is doing the stretching is going to be cursing you! I know my framer curses me soundly (I get the bills ;-) when I print a 100cm (39.4 in) wide print that he has to gallery wrap. A 48" printer would be nice - you could easily make gallery wrapped 50 x 40 inch prints, or 125 x 100 cm prints. Alas, we currently have just 44" printers. I have no idea why. If you were going to build a printer bigger than 44" I think it would be questionable to make the new printer 48". So what should be the next bigger size? If you could print that 125cm (50in) print sideways, it would print faster, or you could gang more images across the substrate for faster printing. So you'd need at least a 56" printer, preferably 58". All I'm saying is, I think I can see where they are coming from in talking about a 60" (152.4 cm)printer. As long as it will handle smaller width roll stock and single sheets, that extra carriage length might come in handy on occasion. Who is actually willing to pay for that extra bit of luxury is an entirely different question. -- Bruce Watson
2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
guys, I know there is some use for it somewhere. It just kind of cracks me up how much attention this is getting amongst a community I 've been part of for long enough to guess there'll be liitle to no aquisition of this beast. I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I have yet to put a roll on either one. No one has requested a print larger than Iris size. Don't get me wrong, I know it'll happen and this is coincidence, but still... Even the production advantage, everyone wants different paper, and I can't select different Piezo ink blends across the width even if several jobs were on the same stock. Could be useful for color, or large quanities of smaller Piezo if the inkset stayed the same like an edition. But time is money too, and trimming out a bunch of small prints from rolls is a huge waste of time. If art paper, probably damage several of them. But you watch, someone will walk in tomorrow with a billboard order, my greatest asperation. Anyway, I'm more interested in it's image quality, yet to be seen. Tyler
2006-04-08 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I have yet to put a roll on either > one. I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? But I agree that most printers would do well with only 24 inches wide.
2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > <tyler@> wrote: > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > have yet to put a roll on either > > one. > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer interested in printing their work on canvass. In fact it's never ever even come up in conversation. But it'll probably happen the same day the billboard guy walks in. Tyler
2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > > have yet to put a roll on either > > > one. > > > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? > > Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer interested in printing their work on > canvass... wait, I just read Bruce's post, so maybe I have.. T
2006-04-08 by hogarth@snappydsl.net
Tyler Boley wrote: > Anyway, I'm more interested in it's image quality, yet to be seen. > Tyler If it ain't a step up in quality, ain't hardly nobody gonna be lookin' at it. Image quality *is* king, at least in my book. -- Bruce Watson
2006-04-08 by Eric Neilsen
Tyler, I guess you don't meet many portrait photographers then : ) , I have had several request for canvas. It can emulate the old Extralure X surface which had some popularity for portraiture. As for billboards.... nope... Eric
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler > Boley > Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:08 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Canon 60" 12 color printer > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > <dfaprinting@...> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > > have yet to put a roll on either > > > one. > > > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? > > Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer interested in > printing their work on > canvass. In fact it's never ever even come up in conversation. > But it'll probably happen the same day the billboard guy walks in. > Tyler > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
2006-04-08 by John
Tyler & Bruce,
There are many printers on the market that I have seen quality prints from, some even printed by members of this and other groups, also some I have been privileged to see output from some that are not yet on the market, but I have seen nothing like the Canon output I saw at IPEX in Birmingham UK this last week. The prints both colour and black & white were oustanding.
John_E
hogarth@... wrote:
Tyler Boley wrote:
> Anyway, I'm more interested in it's image quality, yet to be seen.
> Tyler
If it ain't a step up in quality, ain't hardly nobody gonna be lookin'
at it. Image quality *is* king, at least in my book.
--
Bruce Watson
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
SPONSORED LINKS
Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital photography college Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital photography course
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@...> wrote: > > Tyler, I guess you don't meet many portrait photographers then : ).. You are exactly right. But those I do meet seem to make a lot of their income from print orders, so take the printing in house. Some B&W though, but on paper. T
2006-04-08 by lulalake_1999
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > > Ok, I'll be the one to finally ask... > > Who here needs a 60" printer? > > Tyler ME,ME, ME, and everyone else! he he he he
2006-04-08 by Gary Brown
A 60" printer will not cut it as a billboard printer. I was an architectural signage designer for 15 years, the last time I sold a large banner it was printed on a giant inkjet printer that could print 16' in one pass. I believe that printer cost over 300,000 USD and printed at 24 dpi. Gary www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Canon 60" 12 color printer Tyler, I guess you don't meet many portrait photographers then : ) , I have had several request for canvas. It can emulate the old Extralure X surface which had some popularity for portraiture. As for billboards.... nope... Eric > -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler > Boley > Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:08 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Canon 60" 12 color printer > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > <dfaprinting@...> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > > have yet to put a roll on either > > > one. > > > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? > > Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer interested in > printing their work on > canvass. In fact it's never ever even come up in conversation. > But it'll probably happen the same day the billboard guy walks in. > Tyler > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2006-04-08 by lulalake_1999
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > > have yet to put a roll on either > > > one. > > > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? > > Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer interested in printing their work on > canvass. In fact it's never ever even come up in conversation. > But it'll probably happen the same day the billboard guy walks in. > Tyler Been to the UK recently? On Muswell hill, in London is a large art print shop that has I would say half of the prints on the wall are printed on canvas. It's common there. I am a photographer that prints on canvas regularly. It's happening Tyler. Jules
2006-04-08 by john dean
Yea, me too Jules. Canvas is the fastest growing thing for me both for painters and photographers. People like the idea of not having to frame and put work behind glass. Silk is becoming desirable too. What I have always liked about the Epson pizzo machines is their ability to handle just about any kind of media from high gloss, to fine rag, to alternative media like linen. HP couldn't do that. Now apparently they can and so can Canon. As to size. There are two considerations. First, like this week I did several 40x60's of water reflection drum scans on canvas. Do you have any idea how long these took to output on my 9600? All day to rip and print a couple. My 10K was ok but this 9600 is a joke in that regard and I can't imagine the 9800 is that much better. Now say I have a job that I want to produce 20 portfolios of 12 - 16x20 prints each, like I'm working on now. On a 60" printer that is fast, imagine how much less time (and table space in my studio!) this would take. I could justify the extra cash for that machine in one big job. I'm not saying I would be doing these big orders every day, but once a month would be nice. And the big things, they would come flying out of there and out of my house. It would be like having an assistant that I can't afford. The big thing is also printer durabilty and replaceable head design. But I want to see the monochrome output before I make any plans to dump Epson. And I don't think I'd even consider not using Cone's new inkset, for any reason for a lot of my black and white. But that is another issue for another printer. John --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > <tyler@> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler > Boley" > > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > > > have yet to put a roll on either > > > > one. > > > > > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? > > > > Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer > interested in printing their work on > > canvass. In fact it's never ever even come up in conversation. > > But it'll probably happen the same day the billboard guy walks in. > > Tyler > > > Been to the UK recently? > On Muswell hill, in London is a large art print shop that has I would > say half of the prints on the wall are printed on canvas. It's common > there. I am a photographer that prints on canvas regularly. > > It's happening Tyler. > > Jules >
2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
back to the canon, 60" or not... The inkset is unclear. RGB wil certainly help for color, depending on how all these inks are addressed. But the black/gray setup is not clear. It's sounding like there is a K and light K for photo, and a K and light K for matte. I also wonder how flexable this will be for non-standard setups, more grays, RIP support, etc.. But it sounds like C,M,Y,LC,LM,R,G,B,PK,PLK,MK, MLK. So really, "only" 10 inks on at once? K + LK puts us back to pre K3 UC B&W quality. OK, but no advance. What seems to have been overlooked by much of the industry, is what the K7 ink has revealed. For strict B&W photographic image quality, more grays is in fact better. I'm not talking about what may be good enough, that's subjective, just talking about objectively better. Two Ks are obvioulsy fine for some. On the other hand, a full K7 setup for K with with C, M, Y, LC, LM... now we're talking. Tyler
2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote: > > Yea, me too Jules. Canvas is the fastest growing thing for me both for > painters and photographers. Well, Seattle has always been far behind the curve... ... > Now say I have a job that I want to produce 20 portfolios of 12 - > 16x20 prints each, like I'm working on now. On a 60" printer that is > fast, imagine how much less time (and table space in my studio!) this > would take.... oh man, the trim job, yikes. My attempts with using the cutter on art papers has been dismal, and handling a hard curled roll for cutting out indivual prints was not fun at all. Not that cutting 4 out of an Iris sheet is all that much fun either, but manhandling a 60" roll, with the flaking problem? I admire your ambition <G>. Tyler
2006-04-08 by Tom Baker
Tyler -
"On the other hand, a full K7 setup for K with with C, M, Y, LC, LM... now we're talking."
Would the C,M,LC, and LM be be required in such a set up?
Tom Baker
Tyler Boley <tyler@tylerboley.com> wrote:
back to the canon, 60" or not...
The inkset is unclear. RGB wil certainly help for color, depending on how all these inks are
addressed. But the black/gray setup is not clear. It's sounding like there is a K and light K for
photo, and a K and light K for matte. I also wonder how flexable this will be for non-standard
setups, more grays, RIP support, etc..
But it sounds like C,M,Y,LC,LM,R,G,B,PK,PLK,MK, MLK.
So really, "only" 10 inks on at once?
K + LK puts us back to pre K3 UC B&W quality. OK, but no advance. What seems to have been
overlooked by much of the industry, is what the K7 ink has revealed. For strict B&W
photographic image quality, more grays is in fact better. I'm not talking about what may be
good enough, that's subjective, just talking about objectively better. Two Ks are obvioulsy
fine for some.
On the other hand, a full K7 setup for K with with C, M, Y, LC, LM... now we're talking.
Tyler
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-08 by Tyler Boley
For hue control, toning, tinting, still primarily for mono or near mono work. I think for color the RGB inks are the step up in quality. But with this you'd really have a normal CMYK setup with a completely dotless high resolution and smooth nuetral axis. Then you'd send it RGB files tinted for warm, split tone, selenium, etc., whatever comes to mind. Your CMYK profile would have max GCR for this. Send it a neutral file and it'll primarily be all the K inks with some slight addition of the others for a good neutral. Of course as you send it warm or cold files more color ink is used, but still most of it will be the 7 K inks. StudioPrint could do it already, the DVinci system already is heading in that direction, but with 4 blacks (Cone), and additional colors. All this is just day dreaming, far outside my budgets... Tyler --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...> wrote: > > Tyler - > > "On the other hand, a full K7 setup for K with with C, M, Y, LC, LM... now we're talking." > > Would the C,M,LC, and LM be be required in such a set up? > > Tom Baker > > > > Tyler Boley <tyler@...> wrote: > back to the canon, 60" or not... > The inkset is unclear. RGB wil certainly help for color, depending on how all these inks are > addressed. But the black/gray setup is not clear. It's sounding like there is a K and light K for > photo, and a K and light K for matte. I also wonder how flexable this will be for non- standard > setups, more grays, RIP support, etc.. > > But it sounds like C,M,Y,LC,LM,R,G,B,PK,PLK,MK, MLK. > So really, "only" 10 inks on at once? > K + LK puts us back to pre K3 UC B&W quality. OK, but no advance. What seems to have been > overlooked by much of the industry, is what the K7 ink has revealed. For strict B&W > photographic image quality, more grays is in fact better. I'm not talking about what may be > good enough, that's subjective, just talking about objectively better. Two Ks are obvioulsy > fine for some. > > On the other hand, a full K7 setup for K with with C, M, Y, LC, LM... now we're talking. > Tyler > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2006-04-09 by tariqgibranstudio
"Now say I have a job that I want to produce 20 portfolios of 12 - 16x20 prints each, like I'm working on now. On a 60" printer that is fast, imagine how much less time (and table space in my studio!) this would take." That brings up an interesting issue. I run a 9600 in my studio printing for myself and others. One of the most time consuming things I do is cut and trim smaller prints off multiples on the roll and I particularly hate having to deal with flattening them out as well. For smaller sizes such as 17" x 22" down, I would suggest the opposite approach to a wider format printer. Here, something like the Epson 4800 would be great as you could feed it sheets and just let it go and possibly not have to deal with triming and cutting to size, thats if we could get people to accept all the non standard sizes such as 11"x17", 13"x19" and 17"x22". Why on earth don't the Paper manufacturers AND Printer companies use the standard sizes such as 11"x14", 16"x20", 20"x24"...thats what photographers are used to and thats what also fits perfectly in most non custom made frames. Tariq --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
> > Yea, me too Jules. Canvas is the fastest growing thing for me both for > painters and photographers. People like the idea of not having to > frame and put work behind glass. Silk is becoming desirable too. What > I have always liked about the Epson pizzo machines is their ability to > handle just about any kind of media from high gloss, to fine rag, to > alternative media like linen. HP couldn't do that. Now apparently they > can and so can Canon. > > As to size. There are two considerations. First, like this week I did > several 40x60's of water reflection drum scans on canvas. Do you have > any idea how long these took to output on my 9600? All day to rip and > print a couple. My 10K was ok but this 9600 is a joke in that regard > and I can't imagine the 9800 is that much better. > > Now say I have a job that I want to produce 20 portfolios of 12 - > 16x20 prints each, like I'm working on now. On a 60" printer that is > fast, imagine how much less time (and table space in my studio!) this > would take. I could justify the extra cash for that machine in one > big job. I'm not saying I would be doing these big orders every day, > but once a month would be nice. And the big things, they would come > flying out of there and out of my house. It would be like having an > assistant that I can't afford. > > The big thing is also printer durabilty and replaceable head design. > But I want to see the monochrome output before I make any plans to > dump Epson. And I don't think I'd even consider not using Cone's new > inkset, for any reason for a lot of my black and white. But that is > another issue for another printer. > > John > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "lulalake_1999" > <lulalake_1999@> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > > <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler > > Boley" > > > > <tyler@> wrote: > > > > > I have two 9xxx Epsons, but I mainly print for photographers. I > > > > have yet to put a roll on either > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > I guess you don't do much on canvas or other fabrics? > > > > > > Maybe this is strange, but I've yet to meet a photographer > > interested in printing their work on > > > canvass. In fact it's never ever even come up in conversation. > > > But it'll probably happen the same day the billboard guy walks in. > > > Tyler > > > > > > Been to the UK recently? > > On Muswell hill, in London is a large art print shop that has I would > > say half of the prints on the wall are printed on canvas. It's common > > there. I am a photographer that prints on canvas regularly. > > > > It's happening Tyler. > > > > Jules > > >
2006-04-09 by john dean
For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend for 5 years and is still like new. As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way before the final output. John
2006-04-09 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote: > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > would remotely consider at those prices.... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/62715 ... > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > all day. > I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD... Good grief man! It take 45 minutes or so for a full iris sheet print to go through! I realize it's extraordinarily captivating, but I've decided I can live without standing there watching every stroke of the head and every advance of the paper. So I go do somethin' <G>. With nozzle checks between every sheet, the amount of printing time for each, brushing, etc., I can't do all that many of these in a day anyway, and I manage to watch the occassional dvd as well. With color I expect to do more roll work, but primarily with the photo papers. Not even considering sheets for that. Wish my cutter worked like yours, mine might as well have torn it, so I gotta trim it anyway. T
2006-04-09 by hogarth@snappydsl.net
tariqgibranstudio wrote: > Why on earth don't the Paper manufacturers AND Printer companies > use the standard sizes such as 11"x14", 16"x20", 20"x24"...thats what > photographers are used to and thats what also fits perfectly in most > non custom made frames. > > Tariq Now *that* is an interesting question. I'd like to know that as well. Epson? Canon? Anyone??? -- Bruce Watson
2006-04-09 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> > wrote: > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > would remotely consider at those prices.... > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/62715 by the way, I realize that was based on old prices, but it's still worth doing the actual math to see how your rolls are actually saving for you, if at all. T
2006-04-09 by john dean
We all do what works well for us. I will look into the price differences of rolls and sheets, and now you have me thinking about that. But I do it for convenience too. I do such a variety of sizes that rolls allow me to group things from various formats fairly flexably. The one thing that I do is always give people fairly significant white borders which the rolls allow me to have more control over. As to the sheet sizes. YES, so much waste with these odd sizes (which were derived from the printing industry). Having to do constant nozzle checks, now that is something I think we all argee about. There is no excuse for that, and that kind of waste of time and ink is not acceptable. With the K7 it doesn't seem to be a factor, and it wasn't with the 10K, so it is possible to keep that ink out of the waste tank. john --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> > > wrote: > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > > would remotely consider at those prices.... > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/62715 > > by the way, I realize that was based on old prices, but it's still worth doing the actual math to
> see how your rolls are actually saving for you, if at all. > T >
2006-04-09 by scott_now_coming
>but I have seen nothing like the Canon output I saw at IPEX in Birmingham UK this last week. The prints both colour and black & white were oustanding.> Hi John, Did you happen to notice the size of the carts for that 60" Canon printer? It would be nice if they were at least 500ml. Scott
2006-04-09 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote: > > We all do what works well for us... yup, and thank goodness we find something that does. ... > Having to do constant nozzle checks, now that is something I think we > all argee about. There is no excuse for that... No kidding, and my biggest problem is with a brand new Epson with OEM inks, go figure. Back to the subject line, Canon's performance in that regard will be of great interest. Tyler
2006-04-09 by John
Hi Scott,
I didn't get the info on the actual size but they certainly looked much bigger than the 220ml Epson carts, but of course the could have been specials for the the show because of the amount of printing they were doing. What really impressed me was the speed of output, but a note off care they were mostly printing on gloss media and it was not what I would call "instant dry", however I had them print on our new Film and on our Fabric and the engineer said that he had never seen anything else come out that dry before, and we have now been asked to submit samples for them to test, so it was a good day for me.
Regards
John_E
scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
>but I
have seen nothing like the Canon output I saw at IPEX in Birmingham UK
this last
week. The prints both colour and black & white were oustanding.>
Hi John,
Did you happen to notice the size of the carts for that 60" Canon
printer?
It would be nice if they were at least 500ml.
Scott
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-09 by Ernst Dinkla
Tyler Boley wrote:
> oh man, the trim job, yikes. My attempts with using the cutter on art papers has been dismal,
> and handling a hard curled roll for cutting out indivual prints was not fun at all.
> Not that cutting 4 out of an Iris sheet is all that much fun either, but manhandling a 60" roll,
> with the flaking problem?
> I admire your ambition <G>.
> Tyler
Correct, it gets more difficult to handle big sheets in a one
man shop. Rolls isn't a problem though. I always roll the 44"
on a 6" core in reverse curl at the feet of the printer. The
extra 16" doesn't matter. The core is rotating on a roller bar
and a similar bar is used at the cutter. The cutter can handle
60" already. I have added a cheap laser line gadget last week
that makes it easier to align the Qimage cut marks. But sheets
of 152 x 152 or longer can't be handled by one man and keeping
rolls all the time isn't easy either.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-09 by Ernst Dinkla
john dean wrote:
> As to the sheet sizes. YES, so much waste with these odd sizes (which
> were derived from the printing industry).
Actually the 44" size is based on US technical drawing paper
sizes as a thread on the Epson Wide Format list revealed some
time ago. ANSI size E is 34" x 44". Despite US metrification
of the standards (became ISO A sizes) in 1995, Epson decided
to take the 44" size for their 9000 model. The (European)
uncut ISO B0 sizes are smaller. The Japanese uncut JIS B0 at
approx 1080 x 1506 mm is also too small to make 44" necessary.
The 44" is a good size I think, it covers the ISO B sizes
nice + most of the Japanese traditional sizes + European art
paper sizes. 36" rolls used on the printer will cover the ISO
A0 and downwards A sizes. So from the drawing room (ANSI E) to
the prepress room (ISO B0) to the art print shops (56 x 76 cm,
71 x 102 cm, 65 x 100 cm) the size is good. For photography it
may not be the best size around if traditional sizes matter on
a wide format printer. What is the largest traditional
photographic paper size in sheets ? 30 x 40 ? 40 x 50 ?
The 60" of the Canon is covering Japanese JIS B0 in landscape
mode nicely but it doesn't have much relation to more sheet
sizes. There are however enough 60" paper and canvas rolls
available.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-09 by Ernst Dinkla
john dean wrote:
> As to the sheet sizes. YES, so much waste with these odd sizes (which
> were derived from the printing industry).
Actually the 44" size is based on US technical drawing paper
sizes as a thread on the Epson Wide Format list revealed some
time ago. ANSI size E is 34" x 44". Despite US metrification
of the standards (became ISO A sizes) in 1995, Epson decided
to take the 44" size for their 9000 model. The (European)
uncut ISO B0 sizes are smaller. The Japanese uncut JIS B0 at
approx 1080 x 1506 mm is also too small to make 44" necessary.
The 44" is a good size I think, it covers the ISO B sizes
nice + most of the Japanese traditional sizes + European art
paper sizes. 36" rolls used on the printer will cover the ISO
A0 and downwards A sizes. So from the drawing room (ANSI E) to
the prepress room (ISO B0) to the art print shops (56 x 76 cm,
71 x 102 cm, 65 x 100 cm) the size is good. For photography it
may not be the best size around if traditional sizes matter on
a wide format printer. 44" is however exactly twice the 22" of
the smallest side size of Zenshi, the largest Japanese
photography sheet.
The 60" of the Canon is covering Japanese JIS B0 in landscape
mode nicely but it doesn't have much relation to more sheet
sizes. There are however enough 60" paper and canvas rolls
available.
On cutting: the Canon iPF5000 has a rotary cutter, it would
surprise me if its bigger brother didn't have that too. Rotary
cutters usually sharpen themselves and cut thicker material +
canvas more easily.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-09 by Ernst Dinkla
Specs etc:
http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Work/Products/Professional_Print/Large_Format/iPF9000/
Comes with 330 ml carts when new. 330 or 700 ml cart choice
for production.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-09 by joaskild
Does anybady have any idea if Canon might come with a 44" or 24" color printer now that they have anocened th 17" and the 60"? How soon could it be as I need a 44" soon and thought to get the 9800 but are now hoping that canon will soon relis the 44" or 24" color printer. Joakim
2006-04-09 by john dean
My thoughts exactly, a 44" model. john --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joaskild" <joaskild@...> wrote: > > Does anybady have any idea if Canon might come with a 44" or 24" color printer now that > they have anocened th 17" and the 60"? How soon could it be as I need a 44" soon and > thought to get the 9800 but are now hoping that canon will soon relis the 44" or 24" color
> printer. > > Joakim >
2006-04-09 by hogarth@snappydsl.net
john dean wrote: > My thoughts exactly, a 44" model. > > john I'm in the camp that says that 44" isn't big enough. As Ernst has pointed out, that's a plotter size (American size E drafting paper). Drafting houses aren't buying these printers, so why are we making printers this size? A more sensible size would be 48" which would work much better for fabrics (think canvas, silk). This would allow gallery wrapped canvas prints with an image size of 125 x 100 cm (about 50 x 40 inches) with ease. While a lot of these sizes date back to darkroom print sizes, inkjet isn't restricted to paper like the darkroom. Inkjet printer sizes should reflect this reality. -- Bruce Watson
2006-04-09 by Arthur Fink
I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these materials. But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as archival. What do you do? And what do you recommend? A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y ----------------------------------------------- Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@... Photographing people, places, objects, events
2006-04-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, hogarth@... wrote: > > I'm in the camp that says that 44" isn't big enough. As Ernst has > pointed out, that's a plotter size (American size E drafting paper). I'm thinking 36 (or 1 meter) wide would make a good smaller printer to challenge the Epson reign. When you get right down to it, the 17 inch machine is the one that costs the most pre inch wide to make. All the other machines just have bigger filler in the middle, and the controller needs to count higher. The only argument would be that the controller needs more RAM to be able to handle the larger data stream for the wider print sizes. Maybe it could be said that you need a stronger paper feed motor to over come the additional friction of the wider media, but I don't think that is really the case. For places that have large print runs on a daily basis, the time=money for these Canon printers (with the included RIP and spooler) will more than pay for itself in a very short time. Hopefully the cost will not reflect their current wide format pricing model, or this 60 inch machine will be nearly twice the price of an Epson 48 inch machine. It will be interesting to see what third party ink manufacturers come up with for these printers. Multiple gray inks with the "standard" CcMmY inks should still produce some really good color prints, and that would give more room for gray shades, while still keeping the PK and MK in the machine at the same time. It will also be interesting to see what changes this will force on the RIP writers to support the new stock inks, and this modified for grayscale set that I just suggested.
2006-04-09 by how786
I'd love to hear just how one uses the Lineco Tape. It sounds interesting. Regards Howard --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink <af@...> wrote: > > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these materials. > > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as archival.
> > What do you do? And what do you recommend? > > > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y > ----------------------------------------------- > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@... > > Photographing people, places, objects, events >
2006-04-09 by how786
This came up on a Google search: http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frame_info.html --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" <how786@...> wrote:
> > I'd love to hear just how one uses the Lineco Tape. It sounds > interesting. > Regards > Howard > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink > <af@> wrote: > > > > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with > > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these > materials. > > > > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as > archival. > > > > What do you do? And what do you recommend? > > > > > > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 > > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 > > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@ > > > > Photographing people, places, objects, events > > >
2006-04-09 by Steve Kale
The more relevant question is why don't the printer companies actually build to metric paper sizes but that's a conversation that's been had already. I wouldn't want to be constrained by antique film/plate photography dimensions...
> From: <hogarth@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 21:20:19 -0400 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Canon 60" 12 color printer > > tariqgibranstudio wrote: > >> Why on earth don't the Paper manufacturers AND Printer companies >> use the standard sizes such as 11"x14", 16"x20", 20"x24"...thats what >> photographers are used to and thats what also fits perfectly in most >> non custom made frames. >> >> Tariq > > Now *that* is an interesting question. I'd like to know that as well. > > Epson? Canon? Anyone??? > -- > Bruce Watson
2006-04-09 by tariqgibranstudio
John, I use almost exactly the same set up except with a Keencut dual rotary blade large cutter and print to Museum Etching! With the waste I see with the rolls, the price of the larger sheets is not too different in actual use. In any case, the cost is passed on to the customer. Be careful using the automatic cutter with the thicker papers. I have done it with Ultra Smooth but there is a fairly good chance that with Museum Etching, your asking for problems down the road. One major question I have for you regarding the Museum Etching. I have probably went through about 7 rolls thus far and on every single roll AND on the sheets, I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks like where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with German Etching and its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white border or margin ever so often unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen this? Tariq --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
> > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend > for 5 years and is still like new. > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > before the final output. > > John >
2006-04-09 by ann clancy
this might give you some additional information
http://www.loc.gov/preserv/care/mat.html
regards,
ann
how786 <how786@...> wrote:
This came up on a Google search:
http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frame_info.html
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:
>
> I'd love to hear just how one uses the Lineco Tape. It sounds
> interesting.
> Regards
> Howard
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink
> <af@> wrote:
> >
> > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with
> > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these
> materials.
> >
> > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as
> archival.
> >
> > What do you do? And what do you recommend?
> >
> >
> > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722
> > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722
> > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@
> >
> > Photographing people, places, objects, events
> >
>
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
SPONSORED LINKS
Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital photography college Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital photography course
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-09 by bradspix
My method: 1) Mount print to backingboard using Lineco corners 2) Attach inside of window mat to backing board with Lineco tape Here's a photo: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images16/Matting.jpg Brad Urban pix: www.citysnaps.net --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink <af@...> wrote:
> > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these materials. > > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as archival. > > What do you do? And what do you recommend? > > > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y > ----------------------------------------------- > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@... > > Photographing people, places, objects, events >
2006-04-09 by how786
Ooooh! What a wonderful photo! I'd love to get a better view of it, please. 1-Do you cut your own mats or are they available precut? 2-What method do you use for centering? Thank you Howard --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bradspix" <b-evans@...> wrote: > > > My method: > > 1) Mount print to backingboard using Lineco corners > 2) Attach inside of window mat to backing board with Lineco tape > > Here's a photo: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images16/Matting.jpg > > > Brad > Urban pix: www.citysnaps.net > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink <af@> wrote: > > > > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with > > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these materials. > > > > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as archival.
> > > > What do you do? And what do you recommend? > > > > > > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 > > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 > > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@ > > > > Photographing people, places, objects, events > > >
2006-04-10 by bradspix
OK, here's a closer look: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images16/Matting2.jpg 1) Regarding mats, I cut my own but also order in bulk. Recently I needed 24 16x20 mats for a show and ordered those from framefit.com. Price was $3.25 each in quantity 25. That was for Bainbridge Alphamat - a nice product. 2) Regarding centering: I have a plastic vitamin bottle that I filled with pennies that I use as a weight. Weighs about 5 pounds maybe. I first lay the print on the backing board close to where I think it should be. Then I lay the window mat on top. I move the print around pushing the edges as I lift one side of the window mat. When it's just right, I place the weight on the print with a piece of paper in between for safety. That keeps the print in place. Lift off the window mat and then attach the corners. When the corners are attached, take off the weight and then attach the window mat to the top of the backing board. Pretty easy after you've done a few. Brad Urban pix: http://www.citysnaps.net --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" <how786@...> wrote:
> > Ooooh! What a wonderful photo! I'd love to get a better view of it, > please. > > 1-Do you cut your own mats or are they available precut? > 2-What method do you use for centering? > > Thank you > Howard > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bradspix" > <b-evans@> wrote: > > > > > > My method: > > > > 1) Mount print to backingboard using Lineco corners > > 2) Attach inside of window mat to backing board with Lineco tape > > > > Here's a photo: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images16/Matting.jpg > > > > > > Brad > > Urban pix: www.citysnaps.net > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink > <af@> wrote: > > > > > > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with > > > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these > materials. > > > > > > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as > archival. > > > > > > What do you do? And what do you recommend? > > > > > > > > > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 > > > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 > > > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@ > > > > > > Photographing people, places, objects, events > > > > > >
2006-04-10 by bradspix
Here's another view, hanging next to some others. Not a very good pic, though (I know zip
about shooting "products" and lighting):
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images16/SFWall.jpg
Brad
Urban pix: http://www.citysnaps.net
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" <how786@...> wrote:> > Ooooh! What a wonderful photo! I'd love to get a better view of it, > please. > > 1-Do you cut your own mats or are they available precut? > 2-What method do you use for centering? > > Thank you > Howard > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bradspix" > <b-evans@> wrote: > > > > > > My method: > > > > 1) Mount print to backingboard using Lineco corners > > 2) Attach inside of window mat to backing board with Lineco tape > > > > Here's a photo: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images16/Matting.jpg > > > > > > Brad > > Urban pix: www.citysnaps.net > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink > <af@> wrote: > > > > > > I now that the "correct" method is supposed to be hinged with > > > Japanese paper and starch glue. Lineco makes a tape with these > materials. > > > > > > But I've regularly used clear plastic corners ... also marked as > archival. > > > > > > What do you do? And what do you recommend? > > > > > > > > > A r t h u r F i n k P h o t o g r a p h y > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Ten New Island Avenue land 207.766.5722 > > > Peaks Island, Maine 04108 cell 207.615.5722 > > > www.arthurfinkphoto.com af@ > > > > > > Photographing people, places, objects, events > > > > > >
2006-04-10 by john dean
Tariq, Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. John I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks like > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with German Etching and > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white border or margin ever so often > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen this? > > Tariq > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@>
> wrote: > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > before the final output. > > > > John > > >
2006-04-10 by tariqgibranstudio
John, The flaws are very subtle, little tiny specks really sort of like if you touched a ball point pen tip to the paper. It might be something that most people would not notice. I have yet to get ANY Museum Etching rolls which do not exhibit this. It usually also is on at least one sheet of the 17"x22" size in each pack. I'm sure it must have something to do with the manufacturing process. Other than that, it is definately my favorite paper at the moment. It is more durable than German Etching as it is 100% Cotton Rag, not the weaker Alpha Cellulose of the German Etching. I have yet to see any flaking with it which I occasionally saw with German Etching but of course now I always brush the paper before printing. It just irks me a bit that I'm paying more for the Museum Etching and I have yet to see a perfect roll or Box. On a rolls, its not just one dot but many every so many feet vertically but only one horizontally. If you look closely, I bet you will notice it. I would be curious to hear from anyone else who has seen this or might know why these dots are there. They were not there on the German Etching at all. Tariq --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
> > Tariq, > > Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls > of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is > just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than > German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks > down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better > dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my > new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about > to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. > > I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 > years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of > any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think > that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a > look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. > > John > > > > > I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks > like > > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with > German Etching and > > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white > border or margin ever so often > > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen this? > > > > Tariq > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@> > > wrote: > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I > > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I > > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the > > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher > > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend > > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through > > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just > > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is > > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take > > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. > > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working > > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the > > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time > > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do > > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > > before the final output. > > > > > > John > > > > > >
2006-04-10 by john dean
Well I've just done a lot of work on this excellent paper and I'll look at all the ones I still have inhouse and get back to you tomorrow. I've never heard of such a thing. I have a 24" roll right here so I'll roll it out under strong light and take a look see. John --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tariqgibranstudio" <tariqgibranstudio@...> wrote: > > John, > > The flaws are very subtle, little tiny specks really sort of like if you touched a ball point > pen tip to the paper. It might be something that most people would not notice. I have yet > to get ANY Museum Etching rolls which do not exhibit this. It usually also is on at least > one sheet of the 17"x22" size in each pack. I'm sure it must have something to do with > the manufacturing process. Other than that, it is definately my favorite paper at the > moment. It is more durable than German Etching as it is 100% Cotton Rag, not the weaker > Alpha Cellulose of the German Etching. I have yet to see any flaking with it which I > occasionally saw with German Etching but of course now I always brush the paper before > printing. It just irks me a bit that I'm paying more for the Museum Etching and I have yet > to see a perfect roll or Box. On a rolls, its not just one dot but many every so many feet > vertically but only one horizontally. If you look closely, I bet you will notice it. I would be > curious to hear from anyone else who has seen this or might know why these dots are > there. They were not there on the German Etching at all. > > Tariq > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> > wrote: > > > > Tariq, > > > > Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls > > of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is > > just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than > > German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks > > down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better > > dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my > > new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about > > to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. > > > > I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 > > years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of > > any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think > > that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a > > look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks > > like > > > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with > > German Etching and > > > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white > > border or margin ever so often > > > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen this? > > > > > > Tariq > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > <deanwork2003@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I > > > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I > > > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the > > > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher > > > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend > > > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through > > > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just > > > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is > > > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take > > > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. > > > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > > > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working > > > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > > > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the > > > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time > > > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do
> > > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > > > before the final output. > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-10 by Ernst Dinkla
john dean wrote:
> I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6
> years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of
> any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think
> that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a
> look out though. Thanks for the forewarning.
>
> John
John,
Six years here too but I have had my share of wrinkles in
German Etching rolls (hardly any over the last 3 years
though). And three months ago half the 12 roll of German
Etching 36" needed another profile than the other half. The
40255 batch is not correct so don't touch it !
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-12 by john dean
Answering two questions about ME. 1. Flaking, etc.- No I have had absolutely no scuffing, flaking or motteling of surface of this paper. I've been laying down a lot of pure Piezo Tone total black in fairly large areas of moderate sized prints and they all look smooth, deep, and great. But..look I've only been using this paper a few weeks its new, but my first impression is that it is tougher than both German Etching and Photorag, but that is hard to say so early in the game. 2. RE: small dark spot marks along the lenght of the paper - Well I rolled out the only roll I have left of the Musuem Etching today and sure enough Tariq was right - along about a 4 foot strip of my roll I found these little dark spots in a straight line about every 5" or so, medium grey actually, embedded in the paper. They look like lint or something on the surface but it is someting embedded in the paper making process and deep in the fiber. I looked through all the prints I have made from the previous roll and I found one of about 8 16x20 & 20x24 prints that had it on there in three places on that print. I was able to etch them off with a sharp exacto knife but I don't like the idea of that! If it occurs in the image area you wouldn't see it. If it occurs in the white border, you might confuse it with a dirt spec sitting on the surface of the paper. I have seen flaws like this in canvas or silk before but not in rag paper. I don't know what it is. It could have been in the coating mixture, I have no idea. This certaily want stop me from using this paper because it is working great for me in every other way but, you can bet I'll keep my eye on it from now on. I'm going go forward this to Jim and also Hahnemuhle so they find out what is going on. John --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tariqgibranstudio" <tariqgibranstudio@...> wrote: > > John, > > The flaws are very subtle, little tiny specks really sort of like if you touched a ball point > pen tip to the paper. It might be something that most people would not notice. I have yet > to get ANY Museum Etching rolls which do not exhibit this. It usually also is on at least > one sheet of the 17"x22" size in each pack. I'm sure it must have something to do with > the manufacturing process. Other than that, it is definately my favorite paper at the > moment. It is more durable than German Etching as it is 100% Cotton Rag, not the weaker > Alpha Cellulose of the German Etching. I have yet to see any flaking with it which I > occasionally saw with German Etching but of course now I always brush the paper before > printing. It just irks me a bit that I'm paying more for the Museum Etching and I have yet > to see a perfect roll or Box. On a rolls, its not just one dot but many every so many feet > vertically but only one horizontally. If you look closely, I bet you will notice it. I would be > curious to hear from anyone else who has seen this or might know why these dots are > there. They were not there on the German Etching at all. > > Tariq > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> > wrote: > > > > Tariq, > > > > Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls > > of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is > > just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than > > German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks > > down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better > > dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my > > new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about > > to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. > > > > I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 > > years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of > > any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think > > that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a > > look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks > > like > > > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with > > German Etching and > > > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white > > border or margin ever so often > > > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen this? > > > > > > Tariq > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > <deanwork2003@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I > > > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I > > > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the > > > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher > > > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend > > > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through > > > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just > > > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is > > > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take > > > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. > > > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > > > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working > > > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > > > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the > > > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time > > > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do
> > > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > > > before the final output. > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-12 by how786
I'll share my own experiences with Hahenmule Photo Rag here. I realize that I am in the minority with my problem. A week ago I sold Hahnemule Photo Rag in 2 sizes at well below my cost. The reason was that HPR is the only paper (I was using 308) that persisitently and mysteriously caused my printers loading problems. I suspect that particles were coming off the paper and coating the loading mechanism of my 2200 and 2400. (I'm using the 2200 for BO) The issue happened with regularity. And, there are some very nice options so I finally decided to ditch the paper, selling my 2 unopened boxes. In truth, I prefer the look of some of the other papers. (Innova Smooth, Merlin 2, Kayenta, VFA etc) None of the latter ever give me loading difficulties. I realize that I am in the minority with these negative experiences. HPR seems to be a very popular paper. But, if there is just one person with a similar problem, perhaps they will know they're not alone. Respectfully, Howard --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tariqgibranstudio" <tariqgibranstudio@...> wrote: > > John, > > The flaws are very subtle, little tiny specks really sort of like if you touched a ball point > pen tip to the paper. It might be something that most people would not notice. I have yet > to get ANY Museum Etching rolls which do not exhibit this. It usually also is on at least > one sheet of the 17"x22" size in each pack. I'm sure it must have something to do with > the manufacturing process. Other than that, it is definately my favorite paper at the > moment. It is more durable than German Etching as it is 100% Cotton Rag, not the weaker > Alpha Cellulose of the German Etching. I have yet to see any flaking with it which I > occasionally saw with German Etching but of course now I always brush the paper before > printing. It just irks me a bit that I'm paying more for the Museum Etching and I have yet > to see a perfect roll or Box. On a rolls, its not just one dot but many every so many feet > vertically but only one horizontally. If you look closely, I bet you will notice it. I would be > curious to hear from anyone else who has seen this or might know why these dots are > there. They were not there on the German Etching at all. > > Tariq > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> > wrote: > > > > Tariq, > > > > Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls > > of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is > > just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than > > German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks > > down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better > > dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my > > new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about > > to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. > > > > I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 > > years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of > > any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think > > that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a > > look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks > > like > > > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with > > German Etching and > > > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white > > border or margin ever so often > > > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen this? > > > > > > Tariq > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > <deanwork2003@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even something I > > > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting brush, and I > > > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me was when I > > > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the width of the > > > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a teacher > > > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal friend > > > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts through > > > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I just > > > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print run is > > > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and take > > > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on that roll. > > > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like a robot > > > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or working > > > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > > > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom of the > > > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at a time > > > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. I do
> > > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > > > before the final output. > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-12 by john dean
The Innova Smooth Cotton is a very fine paper if you are having trouble with PR. I like them both but I think I like the slighly more visible texture of PR. You do need to remember though with most of these 100% rag papers you need to brush them before putting them in your printer. Most of the good cotton papers I've used have paper lint dust on them, both rolls and sheets. What I do is use a 10" horse hair drafting brush on them before loading.It works great for me and helps avoid those clogs in the heads with Ultrachrome. But nothing is perfect, especially when you use the printers paper cutter ;-). John --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" <how786@...> wrote: > > I'll share my own experiences with Hahenmule Photo Rag here. > I realize that I am in the minority with my problem. > > A week ago I sold Hahnemule Photo Rag in 2 sizes at well below my > cost. The reason was that HPR is the only paper (I was using 308) that > persisitently and mysteriously caused my printers loading problems. > I suspect that particles were coming off the paper and coating the > loading mechanism of my 2200 and 2400. (I'm using the 2200 for BO) > The issue happened with regularity. And, there are some very nice > options so I finally decided to ditch the paper, selling my 2 unopened > boxes. In truth, I prefer the look of some of the other papers. > (Innova Smooth, Merlin 2, Kayenta, VFA etc) None of the latter ever > give me loading difficulties. > I realize that I am in the minority with these negative experiences. > HPR seems to be a very popular paper. But, if there is just one person > with a similar problem, perhaps they will know they're not alone. > > Respectfully, > Howard > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, > "tariqgibranstudio" <tariqgibranstudio@> wrote: > > > > John, > > > > The flaws are very subtle, little tiny specks really sort of like if > you touched a ball point > > pen tip to the paper. It might be something that most people would > not notice. I have yet > > to get ANY Museum Etching rolls which do not exhibit this. It > usually also is on at least > > one sheet of the 17"x22" size in each pack. I'm sure it must have > something to do with > > the manufacturing process. Other than that, it is definately my > favorite paper at the > > moment. It is more durable than German Etching as it is 100% Cotton > Rag, not the weaker > > Alpha Cellulose of the German Etching. I have yet to see any > flaking with it which I > > occasionally saw with German Etching but of course now I always > brush the paper before > > printing. It just irks me a bit that I'm paying more for the Museum > Etching and I have yet > > to see a perfect roll or Box. On a rolls, its not just one dot but > many every so many feet > > vertically but only one horizontally. If you look closely, I bet > you will notice it. I would be > > curious to hear from anyone else who has seen this or might know why > these dots are > > there. They were not there on the German Etching at all. > > > > Tariq > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Tariq, > > > > > > Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls > > > of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is > > > just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than > > > German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks > > > down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better > > > dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my > > > new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about > > > to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. > > > > > > I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 > > > years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of > > > any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think > > > that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a > > > look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks > > > like > > > > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with > > > German Etching and > > > > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white > > > border or margin ever so often > > > > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen > this? > > > > > > > > Tariq > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > > <deanwork2003@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even > something I > > > > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > > > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > > > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > > > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting > brush, and I > > > > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me > was when I > > > > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the > width of the > > > > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a > teacher > > > > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal > friend > > > > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > > > > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > > > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts > through > > > > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I > just > > > > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print > run is > > > > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and > take > > > > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on > that roll. > > > > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like > a robot > > > > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or > working > > > > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to
> > > > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom > of the > > > > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at > a time > > > > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. > I do > > > > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > > > > before the final output. > > > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-12 by sinar001
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" <how786@...> wrote: > > I'll share my own experiences with Hahenmule Photo Rag here. > I realize that I am in the minority with my problem. > > A week ago I sold Hahnemule Photo Rag in 2 sizes at well below my > cost. The reason was that HPR is the only paper (I was using 308) that > persisitently and mysteriously caused my printers loading problems. > I suspect that particles were coming off the paper and coating the > loading mechanism of my 2200 and 2400. (I'm using the 2200 for BO) > The issue happened with regularity. And, there are some very nice > options so I finally decided to ditch the paper, selling my 2 unopened > boxes. In truth, I prefer the look of some of the other papers. > (Innova Smooth, Merlin 2, Kayenta, VFA etc) None of the latter ever > give me loading difficulties. > I realize that I am in the minority with these negative experiences. > HPR seems to be a very popular paper. But, if there is just one person > with a similar problem, perhaps they will know they're not alone. > > Respectfully, > Howard SNIP Howard: It's not that uncomon for the feed rollers on Epson printers to get "glazed" from the inkjet receptor coating. Large Format printers don't have this problem because they don't have an automatic feed system like the desktop printers. At one time, there was available for purchase, cleaning sheets that would help remove the glaze, but I don't think these are available any more. If you can access the feed rollers, try cleaning with Q-tip and alcohol. Of course, some papers cause this problem more than others! John Nollendorfs
2006-04-13 by tariqgibranstudio
Thanks for checking John. And it will ot keep me from using it either but as I mentioned earlier, I hate paying a Premium Price when, considering the times when those dots show up in the white border/Signature/Title area, I might have to either reprint or cut out as waste a large section of this expensive paper. I have had to do both before as I hate delivering a print which is not perfect. If it is in the image area as you mention, then its no big deal. Also, as I said before, I have yet to see even 1 roll of paper or large sheet box where these dots where not present! That tells me its something in the manufacturing process for this particular paper. It's not random so I would bet its being made by a Machine. As for the other question on Flaking. Never seen it happen yet with Museum Etching. I do brush, particularly at the start of rolls. Tariq --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
> > Answering two questions about ME. > > 1. Flaking, etc.- No I have had absolutely no scuffing, flaking or > motteling of surface of this paper. I've been laying down a lot of > pure Piezo Tone total black in fairly large areas of moderate sized > prints and they all look smooth, deep, and great. But..look I've only > been using this paper a few weeks its new, but my first impression is > that it is tougher than both German Etching and Photorag, but that is > hard to say so early in the game. > > 2. RE: small dark spot marks along the lenght of the paper - > Well I rolled out the only roll I have left of the Musuem Etching > today and sure enough Tariq was right - along about a 4 foot strip of > my roll I found these little dark spots in a straight line about every > 5" or so, medium grey actually, embedded in the paper. They look like > lint or something on the surface but it is someting embedded in the > paper making process and deep in the fiber. I looked through all the > prints I have made from the previous roll and I found one of about 8 > 16x20 & 20x24 prints that had it on there in three places on that > print. I was able to etch them off with a sharp exacto knife but I > don't like the idea of that! If it occurs in the image area you > wouldn't see it. If it occurs in the white border, you might confuse > it with a dirt spec sitting on the surface of the paper. > > I have seen flaws like this in canvas or silk before but not in rag > paper. I don't know what it is. It could have been in the coating > mixture, I have no idea. This certaily want stop me from using this > paper because it is working great for me in every other way but, you > can bet I'll keep my eye on it from now on. > > I'm going go forward this to Jim and also Hahnemuhle so they find out > what is going on. > > John > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, > "tariqgibranstudio" <tariqgibranstudio@> wrote: > > > > John, > > > > The flaws are very subtle, little tiny specks really sort of like if > you touched a ball point > > pen tip to the paper. It might be something that most people would > not notice. I have yet > > to get ANY Museum Etching rolls which do not exhibit this. It > usually also is on at least > > one sheet of the 17"x22" size in each pack. I'm sure it must have > something to do with > > the manufacturing process. Other than that, it is definately my > favorite paper at the > > moment. It is more durable than German Etching as it is 100% Cotton > Rag, not the weaker > > Alpha Cellulose of the German Etching. I have yet to see any > flaking with it which I > > occasionally saw with German Etching but of course now I always > brush the paper before > > printing. It just irks me a bit that I'm paying more for the Museum > Etching and I have yet > > to see a perfect roll or Box. On a rolls, its not just one dot but > many every so many feet > > vertically but only one horizontally. If you look closely, I bet > you will notice it. I would be > > curious to hear from anyone else who has seen this or might know why > these dots are > > there. They were not there on the German Etching at all. > > > > Tariq > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Tariq, > > > > > > Oh no. That is terrible. No, I've seen no flaws in the about 4 rolls > > > of the Museum Etching that I've used so far. I don't know if this is > > > just my experience or not but this paper seems a lot more durable than > > > German Etching, far less tender, and I've been putting a lot blacks > > > down on it. It seems more like the Innova coating but with better > > > dmax. I sure hope I don't experience any problem because this is my > > > new favourite paper because I'll send it back, immediately. I'm about > > > to do two large portfolios with this stuff and I can't deal with that. > > > > > > I'll tell you right now I've been using Hahnemuhle papers for about 6 > > > years, every month, and never have I had a quality control problem of > > > any kind. It has been my most consistently good media. I don't think > > > that is luck, I think it is a good German craftsmanship. I will keep a > > > look out though. Thanks for the forewarning. > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see these small tiny black or gray dots every so many feet. Looks > > > like > > > > where a machine has handled or marked it. Never ever saw this with > > > German Etching and > > > > its a real issue as It will almost invaribly end up in a white > > > border or margin ever so often > > > > unless I waste some of this very expensive paper. Have you seen > this? > > > > > > > > Tariq > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > > <deanwork2003@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > For the life of me I can't understand you guys paying that kind of > > > > > money for sheet of rag media. To me it is just not even > something I > > > > > would remotely consider at those prices. I have only had one issue > > > > > with using good roll media, and that is flattening the prints > > > > > afterwards, and that is certainly no big deal for me. I brush the > > > > > media quickly while on the machine with a large drafting > brush, and I > > > > > have no flaking problems at all anymore. But the key for me > was when I > > > > > bought the 53" Rototrim paper cutter that will accept the > width of the > > > > > lare rolls, it costs $700.00. But I got it half price with a > teacher > > > > > discount. This self sharpening device has been my most loyal > friend > > > > > for 5 years and is still like new. > > > > > > > > > > As a matter of fact for roll paper I am using the very thick > > > > > Hahnemuhle Museum Etching rag now at 350 gsm and the 9600 cuts > through > > > > > it completely just fine. Even the old 7000 scores is so well I > just > > > > > tear it off very easily, however usually what I do in a print > run is > > > > > stroke the edges of each print in PS with a thin grey line and > take > > > > > them to the Rototrim all at once with a number of prints on > that roll. > > > > > I couldn't imagine sitting here feeding a sheet at a time like > a robot > > > > > all day. I'd rather be in the other room watching a DVD or or > working > > > > > on the drum scaner or another printer. What I would really like to > > > > > have is one of those mechanized roll up devices for the bottom > of the > > > > > printer that would allow you to print a half a roll or more at > a time > > > > > out of a good rip. Now that would make me money while I sleep. > I do > > > > > all my proofing of many things at once and evaluate all that way > > > > > before the final output. > > > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-13 by James Irelan
> > > Of course, some papers cause this problem more than others! > I think the Hana papers are pretty famous for it, though, especially which ever one Media Street calls Royal Plush. James
2006-04-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Irelan <james@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Of course, some papers cause this problem more than others! > > > > I think the Hana papers are pretty famous for it, though, especially > which ever one Media Street calls Royal Plush. > > James > Royal Plush = German Etching, and years ago this was indeed a huge problem. But I've had little to no problem with GE lately, maybe just lucky I guess.
2006-04-13 by john dean
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote: > It seems to me that both GE and WillTurner scuffed a lot more years ago. Possibly they did something to the coating. But it could be our technique has improved. Don't know. john
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Irelan > <james@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, some papers cause this problem more than others! > > > > > > > I think the Hana papers are pretty famous for it, though, especially > > which ever one Media Street calls Royal Plush. > > > > James > > > > Royal Plush = German Etching, and years ago this was indeed a huge > problem. But I've had little to no problem with GE lately, maybe just > lucky I guess. >
2006-04-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > It seems to me that both GE and WillTurner scuffed a lot more years > ago. Possibly they did something to the coating. But it could be our > technique has improved. Don't know. > > john > I think some of it is due to newer better inks. Eboni was a huge improvement over the Generations G4 matte black. And that was even on some old GE (Royal Plush) that was about 5 years old. I didn't find too much difference between the old paper and the new paper, except for the occassional flake from the older paper. Profiles were exactly the same. So I would put down the flake reduction to better QC and better vacuums in the production line.
2006-04-13 by john dean
Oh, I don't know about that. Ultrachome K2 scratches very easily if not sprayed, just as bad or worse than the CF inks and worse than the Lyson inks I used to use. That is one of the reasons I'm still spraying :( . The neutral Cone inks on the other hand are very tough. Apparently Ebony is too, as well and the K3 UC. John --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > > <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > > > It seems to me that both GE and WillTurner scuffed a lot more years > > ago. Possibly they did something to the coating. But it could be our > > technique has improved. Don't know. > > > > john > > > > I think some of it is due to newer better inks. Eboni was a huge > improvement over the Generations G4 matte black. And that was even on > some old GE (Royal Plush) that was about 5 years old. I didn't find too > much difference between the old paper and the new paper, except for the > occassional flake from the older paper. Profiles were exactly the same. > So I would put down the flake reduction to better QC and better vacuums > in the production line. >
2006-04-13 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote: > > Oh, I don't know about that. Ultrachome K2 scratches very easily if > not sprayed, just as bad or worse than the CF inks and worse than the > Lyson inks I used to use. That is one of the reasons I'm still > spraying :( . The neutral Cone inks on the other hand are very tough. > Apparently Ebony is too, as well and the K3 UC. > > John > If K3 is more durable, then K2 should be the same, it's exactly the same matte black ink (strictly looking at black durability). Now if they are mixing cyan and magenta with the black, then that might account for the increased resistance to damage. The Image Specialists UltraPro matte black is also much better than the old Mediastreet G4 inks. Sorry I can't compare to Epson inks, I haven't used OEM inks in so long...
2006-04-13 by Tyler Boley
The coating was indeed changed a few years back in responce to flaking complaints. There is word it has recently beed changed again for some reason. Double checking linearizations and/or profiles on newly purchased batches might be wise. Tyler --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" > <dfaprinting@> wrote: > > > It seems to me that both GE and WillTurner scuffed a lot more years > ago. Possibly they did something to the coating. But it could be our > technique has improved. Don't know. > > john > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Irelan > > <james@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, some papers cause this problem more than others! > > > > > > > > > > I think the Hana papers are pretty famous for it, though, especially
> > > which ever one Media Street calls Royal Plush. > > > > > > James > > > > > > > Royal Plush = German Etching, and years ago this was indeed a huge > > problem. But I've had little to no problem with GE lately, maybe just > > lucky I guess. > > >
2006-04-13 by john dean
Your right Greg the MK is the same ink, I forgot and dont' have K3 yet. I was refering more to the color inks. The scratching is a lot worse too with K2 on the glossy papers. They were super tender. I think Tyler is right, the Hahnemhle coatings have improved though. John
> > If K3 is more durable, then K2 should be the same, it's exactly the > same matte black ink (strictly looking at black durability). Now if > they are mixing cyan and magenta with the black, then that might > account for the increased resistance to damage. The Image Specialists > UltraPro matte black is also much better than the old Mediastreet G4 > inks. Sorry I can't compare to Epson inks, I haven't used OEM inks in > so long... >