Digital BW, The Print

I have always calibrated my screen to D65 (with basicocolor display + eye one pro) and also 
the prints profil with basicocolor print3c. I am having a problem that my printprofels are 
always a bit to dark and I called to Basicocolor for adwice. They told that I should use D50 on  
the screen and prints profils and that they would be lighter? Does anybady know what 
happens if I change all to the D50 Daylight. Will all my files now look a bit more yellow? I don
�t totaly understand this. When I stodyed photography we learnd that D65 was normal 
daylight. 

So before I start to change my profile workflow to D50, I like to ask if its a good idea and 
what changes I can expickt.

My main problem was that to profiles are a bit darker wich I just fix by a curve in Photoshop 
but when you make printing via Indesign you have a problem.

Thanks

Joakim

D50 is the graphics standard for print illumination.  Lighting booths are
most often D50.  When you make ICC profiles, your spectrophotometer most
likely illuminates the test chart with D50 illumination. It¹s logical to
have all of these consistent.  Having said all that, the human eye is very
good at adapting for differences in white point.  As a result, you are
likely better off using your display¹s native whitepoint when calibrating it
as it will likely produce a more consistent greyscale.  Even if you choose
to switch to D50 you will get used to it very quickly and soon a flick to
D65 will look awful at first.  Where do you display your prints?  If indoors
and lit with normal household lighting then the illumination will more than
likely be way below D50...

From: joaskild <joaskild@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:05:44 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] D50 or D65 calibration prints & screen calibration?

 
 
 


I have always calibrated my screen to D65 (with basicocolor display + eye
one pro) and also 
the prints profil with basicocolor print3c. I am having a problem that my
printprofels are 
always a bit to dark and I called to Basicocolor for adwice. They told that
I should use D50 on
the screen and prints profils and that they would be lighter? Does anybady
know what 
happens if I change all to the D50 Daylight. Will all my files now look a
bit more yellow? I don
´t totaly understand this. When I stodyed photography we learnd that D65 was
normal 
daylight. 

So before I start to change my profile workflow to D50, I like to ask if its
a good idea and 
what changes I can expickt.

My main problem was that to profiles are a bit darker wich I just fix by a
curve in Photoshop 
but when you make printing via Indesign you have a problem.

Thanks

Joakim

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

D50 has long been the standard in viewing booths because humans (on
average) perceive equal amounts of RGB light as "neutral" and are
better at comparing color under a white light source they perceive as
"neutral", as well as being better at comparing colors which are both
illuminated under the same white light source. Humans have a tough
time seeing two colors which are exactly the same under differing
white light sources. Humans see them as different colors. So the trick
here for the human brain is when comparing colors, to view them under
the same white light source. By this I am of course referring to
temperature.  The work done by the CIE decades ago measured human's
perception of what was a neutral white light and discovered it was
5000k. So the industry naturally built upon 5000k.

That is all common knowledge of course. But with that said we realized
that D65 or 6500k flat screens are now the
norm and we had a number of viewing booths made for us that are fully
adjustable and come with D65 (6500k) illumination. This allows the
user to set a viewing booth next to their calibrated D65 monitor and
adjust the light level of the booth to the light level of the monitor.
The brain is best suited at that point for comparing print to monitor
because the white points are similar. 

If interested you can find them here:

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.14/category.232/.f

Look for the D65 models.

Jon Cone
InkjetMall


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> D50 is the graphics standard for print illumination.  Lighting
booths are
> most often D50.  When you make ICC profiles, your spectrophotometer most
> likely illuminates the test chart with D50 illumination. It¹s logical to
> have all of these consistent.  Having said all that, the human eye
is very
> good at adapting for differences in white point.  As a result, you are
> likely better off using your display¹s native whitepoint when
calibrating it
> as it will likely produce a more consistent greyscale.  Even if you
choose
> to switch to D50 you will get used to it very quickly and soon a
flick to
> D65 will look awful at first.  Where do you display your prints?  If
indoors
> and lit with normal household lighting then the illumination will
more than
> likely be way below D50...
> 
> 
> 
> From: joaskild <joaskild@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:05:44 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] D50 or D65 calibration prints & screen
calibration?
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> I have always calibrated my screen to D65 (with basicocolor display
+ eye
> one pro) and also 
> the prints profil with basicocolor print3c. I am having a problem
that my
> printprofels are 
> always a bit to dark and I called to Basicocolor for adwice. They
told that
> I should use D50 on
> the screen and prints profils and that they would be lighter? Does
anybady
> know what 
> happens if I change all to the D50 Daylight. Will all my files now
look a
> bit more yellow? I don
> ´t totaly understand this. When I stodyed photography we learnd that
D65 was
> normal 
> daylight. 
> 
> So before I start to change my profile workflow to D50, I like to
ask if its
> a good idea and 
> what changes I can expickt.
> 
> My main problem was that to profiles are a bit darker wich I just
fix by a

> curve in Photoshop 
> but when you make printing via Indesign you have a problem.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Joakim
> 
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm afraid it isn't a good idea to switch the total standard 
(booth and monitor) to D65 to overcome limitations in monitors 
or for any other reason. If metamerism was totally absent in 
papers and inks it might be a solution. As long as many 
galleries and living rooms have lighting that's on a lower 
than 5000K number and the level of lighting isn't very high 
either (Kruithof)  it may be a better idea to stay with D50 (+ 
more light) which is usually already cooler than the space 
where the prints will be hanging. The level of illumination 
(monitor + booth) is most likely the issue that has to be 
controlled and that will be a problem on many flatscreens now 
in use.

Ernst
-- 

                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

Ernst,

I agree that it is the level of illumination for both screen and 
viewing that is critical, not the temperature.  I have stayed with 
D50 for reasons already stated (it is at least closer to typical 
viewing temperatures) but I have adjusted the monitor luminance to 
match typical viewing luminance.  Standard (ISO) luminance for 
viewing graphics is considered to be 350-500 lux (critical viewing is 
generally accepted as 8.5 lux).  So I view prints initially at D50 
and about 400-450 lux (but I then walk them around the house too).  I 
have matched the monitor appearance to the print thus viewed.  In 
calibrating the monitor, this comes out to a setting of about 50 
cd/m2.  This figure is lower than generally recommended monitor 
luminance, but I am viewing the monitor in a dimly lit room. I 
believe that many monitors will not allow such low figures, but the 
LaCie 321 I'm using will go down to about 40.  Higher luminance 
settings on the monitor (even 80 or 90 cd/m2) represent the image as 
brighter, contrastier and crisper than the final print. This setup 
has been working quite well for me using Roy's ICC profiling 
approach.  The screen is very highly predictive of the print and the 
relationship between screen and print is almost perfectly consistent.

Walt 




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@...> wrote:

>
> I'm afraid it isn't a good idea to switch the total standard 
> (booth and monitor) to D65 to overcome limitations in monitors 
> or for any other reason. If metamerism was totally absent in 
> papers and inks it might be a solution. As long as many 
> galleries and living rooms have lighting that's on a lower 
> than 5000K number and the level of lighting isn't very high 
> either (Kruithof)  it may be a better idea to stay with D50 (+ 
> more light) which is usually already cooler than the space 
> where the prints will be hanging. The level of illumination 
> (monitor + booth) is most likely the issue that has to be 
> controlled and that will be a problem on many flatscreens now 
> in use.
> 
> Ernst
> -- 
> 
>                     --
>            Ernst Dinkla
> 
> 
> www.pigment-print.com
> (         unvollendet         )
>