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2006-12-18 by Paul Roark
This is where I'm at with this approach, for what it's worth. It's a work in progress, but the results so far are very encouraging. http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-19 by george craig
I don't know how this is happening, but I am getting EVERY email that goes thru
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com...sometimes up to a hundred or so daily...can you help me out and see what the problem is??
Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote: This is where I'm at with this approach, for what it's worth. It's a work
in progress, but the results so far are very encouraging.
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-12-19 by Jamie Creed
Paul your work is always worth a great deal, work in progress or finished result. I'd just like to clarify your ink choice and positions, correct me if I'm wrong: Position: Ink: K Eboni C PK M LLK Y C - dark cyan LC LLC LM LM LK LK would it be possible to get hold of your Qtr curve file as is? regards, Jamie ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Paul Roark" wrote: > > This is where I'm at with this approach, for what it's worth. It's a work in progress, but the results so far are very encouraging.
> > > > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf > > > > Paul > > www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>
2006-12-19 by Paul Roark
Jamie, You have my current ink positions correct. However, they may change. If I decide the dark cyan is definitely part of what should be in the "default" setup for this approach, I'll probably switch it to the C position. But, right now I'm just now sure where it's going to end up. I'll send the profile off list. Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Creed Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 5:30 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QTR profile for 2200, 4K+ inkset, and Matte BW paper Paul your work is always worth a great deal, work in progress or finished result. I'd just like to clarify your ink choice and positions, correct me if I'm wrong: Position: Ink: K Eboni C PK M LLK Y C - dark cyan LC LLC LM LM LK LK would it be possible to get hold of your Qtr curve file as is? regards, Jamie ---------------------------------------------------------- "Paul Roark" wrote: > > This is where I'm at with this approach, for what it's worth. It's a work in progress, but the results so far are very encouraging. > > > > http://home1. <http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf> gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf > > > > Paul > > www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroar <http://www.paulroark.com/> k.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-19 by Howard Shaw
Paul Roark wrote: > This is where I'm at with this approach, for what it's worth. It's a work > in progress, but the results so far are very encouraging. > > > > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf > Paul Thanks for that. Would it also be possible to see a screen grab of the Curve Graph of all the inks. It's easier to picture what is going on than with the numbers alone. regards Howard
2006-12-19 by Paul Roark
The full curves set screen grab has been added. Let me know if you have other questions. Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Howard Shaw Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:00 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QTR profile for 2200, 4K+ inkset, and Matte BW paper Paul Roark wrote: > This is where I'm at with this approach, for what it's worth. It's a work > in progress, but the results so far are very encouraging. > > > > http://home1. <http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf> gte.net/res09aij/QTR_2200_4K+C+cm_MBW-N.pdf > Paul Thanks for that. Would it also be possible to see a screen grab of the Curve Graph of all the inks. It's easier to picture what is going on than with the numbers alone. regards Howard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-19 by Howard Shaw
Paul Roark wrote: > The full curves set screen grab has been added. Let me know if you have > other questions. > Thanks Paul. Am I right in thinking the Cyan ink is in the Yellow position? Perhaps using the Photo Black as one of the gray inks has made things more complicated than they would be by going straight to the LK. Does the extra ink in this position make a significant difference in the shadow area? It could be that the PK has caused the tonal variation you have had to fix with the Cyan ink. regards Howard
2006-12-20 by Paul Roark
Howard, > Am I right in thinking the Cyan ink is in the Yellow position? Yes. >Perhaps using the Photo Black as one of the gray inks has >made things more complicated than they would be by going > straight to the LK. With IJC I'd agree. However, with QTR's rather automatic method of doing the carbon core cross-overs, it's working fine. One of the main reasons the PK is there is to be able to print on glossy paper without changing any inks. While in a 2200 it's not big deal, this is a test bed for the 7600 - 9600 also. There is it a big deal. > Does the extra ink in this position make a significant difference > in the shadow area? It adds just a bit more smoothness -- barely noticeable. Frankly, once one has a 3k system, the quality differences above that are more academic than real. In the 220 and 1280 I'll probably have just 3k's (to facilitate the Epson driver approaches), and I expect them to make prints that can hang next to the best. > It could be that the PK has caused the tonal variation you > have had to fix with the Cyan ink. No, the slight warming is the Eboni coming in. It's so dense it can overwhelm any of the colors. Even full cyan can only offset Eboni up to about density 1.5. After that there will be a slight rise in warmth until the Eboni starts to get cooler as it approaches its dmax. I could have put more of the light colors in the mix, but I wanted to roll that curve off gently to avoid the smoothing algorithm from going berserk and sticking artifacts elsewhere in the curve. (The QTR curve preview is not, from what I can tell, an accurate view of what is actually happening. It seems to lack the smoothing algorithms that are, no doubt, in the actual ink distribution algorithms. It's also got a bug in it that allows it to work only on the first of these table-derived curves.) At any rate, since I had the cyan in the printer, I used it rather than lots of LLC and LM. The image is so dark down there that the rather minor tone variations are not really very significant. Actually, the PK is more neutral than the lighter grays. As such, it required less color, thus increasing the lightfastness in that area. This is consistent with what I found with the LLLK also. The lighter the carbon, the more color inks are needed. The most lightfast inkset is the BO version, but I like smoothness and tone control. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2006-12-20 by Howard Shaw
Paul, thanks for your reply. Paul Roark wrote: > ... > With IJC I'd agree. However, with QTR's rather automatic method of doing > the carbon core cross-overs, it's working fine. One of the main reasons the > PK is there is to be able to print on glossy paper without changing any > inks. While in a 2200 it's not big deal, this is a test bed for the 7600 - > 9600 also. There is it a big deal. > ... I understand why you would want to have PK in the printer but not so much why you would want to use it in curves for matt paper when it's density is so close to the LK. I can see though that it does have benefits in a more neutral curve and I understand your arguments against using a LLLK. I presume you would not have any concerns about any interaction between Eboni & PK in the same print. > ... (The QTR curve preview is > not, from what I can tell, an accurate view of what is actually happening. > It seems to lack the smoothing algorithms that are, no doubt, in the actual > ink distribution algorithms. It's also got a bug in it that allows it to > work only on the first of these table-derived curves.) > Yes, I hadn't noticed that before as I more often use .acv curves. The second preview point curve seems to show points from the first and second curves. Howard
2006-12-20 by Paul Roark
Paul Roark wrote: >> ... One of the main reasons the >> PK is there is to be able to print on glossy paper without changing any >> inks. While in a 2200 it's not big deal, this is a test bed for the >>7600 - 9600 also. There it is a big deal. > ... Howard Shaw wrote: >I understand why you would want to have PK in the printer but not so >much why you would want to use it in curves for matt paper when it's >density is so close to the LK. Actually, standard PK has 3 times the carbon of LK. That's the standard dark to light ratio. The K4 PK, however is a bit less dense. The Eboni has more carbon than the PK, of course, but I'm not real sure how much more. It's closer to the PK than LK, I believe. The PK in the mix does lead to a smoother transition to the Eboni. If the PK was not easily available or not easily inserted via the QTR routine, I would not worry about it. But, since it's there anyway, I figure I might as well use it. > ... I presume you would not have any concerns about any >interaction between Eboni & PK in the same print. No, the base of the PK and LK are the same. >> ... (The QTR curve preview is >> not, from what I can tell, an accurate view of what >>is actually happening. It seems to lack the smoothing >>algorithms that are, no doubt, in the actual >> ink distribution algorithms. It's also got a bug in it >>that allows it to work only on the first of these >>table-derived curves.) >Yes, I hadn't noticed that before as I more often use .acv curves. I started by using acv curves, but was finding that having the curves external to the QTR profile was going to cause confusion. For both me and others that might use my profiles, having all the information easily accessible from the QTR file seems rather important. So, while I prefer a graphical interface, I hope that I have found a rather limited number of points in the table that gives a smooth tone ramp -- for more than just this one profile if I'm lucky. If that is the case, it might make it a whole lot easier for me and others to modify the QTR profile by just altering a few numbers in a table and without having to search for the curve that was embedded. Or am I missing something? Is there an easy way to use an acv curve and later extract it from the QTR profile? If that could be done, I'd probably go back to the curves. > The second preview point curve seems to show points from the > first and second curves. Yes, something like that is going on. I have not found any way to clear the "memory" in that subroutine aside from shutting QTR down and re-opening it. Paul www.PaulRoark.com