Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
having installed my first MIS cartridges in years, I've used up 20% of the ink just trying to get a good nozzle check on my 2100. more than enough to offset any price advantage, at least with prefilled carts. Maybe with a CFS it would still be worth it for me, but I haven't the time to spend just getting the nozzles to work.

This never happens with OEM inks and is the reason why I gave up on UT inks years ago.

The idea of using MIS inks appeals, but I can't see myself changing over again with this sort of performance.

Richard
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

   "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. 
   Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
   Begin it now."
   --Goethe

Yes, I use UT7 with 2200 and have to unclog between uses, even if only
after a day. That's an expense I accept because I like the looks of
UT7. I don't know if that's typically 20% but it surely is sometimes,
when multiple unclogs are necessary...which means each cart costs an
extra $2-3 if one compares to OEM.

From the beginning I knew/believed  clogs were certain with MIS and
every none-OEM, and I've not seen any credible report to the contrary.
I've had a grand total of one clog with OEM in that machine in several
years. 

Is Piezo any less clog-prone? I can't think why it would be and I'm
not interested in experimentation. 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard
Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> having installed my first MIS cartridges in years, I've used up 20%
of the ink just trying to get a good nozzle check on my 2100. more
than enough to offset any price advantage, at least with prefilled
carts. Maybe with a CFS it would still be worth it for me, but I
haven't the time to spend just getting the nozzles to work.
> 
> This never happens with OEM inks and is the reason why I gave up on
UT inks years ago.
> 
> The idea of using MIS inks appeals, but I can't see myself changing
over again with this sort of performance.

> 
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 
> 
>    "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. 
>    Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
>    Begin it now."
>    --Goethe
>

I have used a lot of MIS ink in a many different printers.  I can't say that
they are more or less prone to clogs than Epson ink, but the only time I
have clogs is when a printer sits unused for a week.  If you're having clogs
more than this there may be something wrong with the printer - like the
capping station is not sealing.  Cleaning the printer helps.  Junk can be on
the bottom side of the head and not wiped off by the wiper blade.  The blade
may be old and stiff or just dirty.  Pigments can pile up on the foam pad at
the left.

 

Remember with new empty carts that they need priming to get rid of the air
bubble.

 

I tend not to use MIS pre-filled carts.  I suspect MIS can't pull as good a
vacuum when filling these, so there could be an air bell at the outlet there
also.  When I vacuum fill a cart, I also shake it like a thermometer to help
get the ink down to the outlet and the air away from the outlet.

 

The refurb 1800 I recently bought was badly clogged with OEM inks when it
arrived.  MIS cleaning fluid finally ate through all the clogs, and there
has been no clogging at all with the MIS inks that are now in the printer.

 

I assume Epson inks clog less, but you should not be having daily clogs with
MIS or Piezo inks.  These 2 companies have really given us some great B&W
options.  They and the supplier of many third party companies - Image
Specialists - are great friends to the B&W market and to competition.  

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of djon43
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 4:29 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS & Ink flow

 

Yes, I use UT7 with 2200 and have to unclog between uses, even if only
after a day. That's an expense I accept because I like the looks of
UT7. I don't know if that's typically 20% but it surely is sometimes,
when multiple unclogs are necessary...which means each cart costs an
extra $2-3 if one compares to OEM.

From the beginning I knew/believed clogs were certain with MIS and
every none-OEM, and I've not seen any credible report to the contrary.
I've had a grand total of one clog with OEM in that machine in several
years. 

Is Piezo any less clog-prone? I can't think why it would be and I'm
not interested in experimentation. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard
Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> having installed my first MIS cartridges in years, I've used up 20%
of the ink just trying to get a good nozzle check on my 2100. more
than enough to offset any price advantage, at least with prefilled
carts. Maybe with a CFS it would still be worth it for me, but I
haven't the time to spend just getting the nozzles to work.
> 
> This never happens with OEM inks and is the reason why I gave up on
UT inks years ago.
> 
> The idea of using MIS inks appeals, but I can't see myself changing
over again with this sort of performance.
> 
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield. <http://smallfield.vze.com> vze.com
> http://photos. <http://photos.smallfield.vze.com> smallfield.vze.com
(Photos web site)
> http://warkworth. <http://warkworth.vze.com/> vze.com/ (Warkworth photo
essay)
> http://picasaweb. <http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/>
google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 
> 
> "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. 
> Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
> Begin it now."
> --Goethe
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
 
> Cleaning the printer helps.  Junk can be on
> the bottom side of the head and not wiped off by the wiper blade. 

One of the top items on my short list of "how to keep an Epson 1280 working with UT2 inks" 
is regular (every 3-6 mo) cleaning of the wiper blade. Twice now my printer has started to 
clog at shorter and shorter intervals, and both times the problem was resolved by cleaning 
the wiper blade. The first time an Epson technician did it and it cost $70--fortunately, the 
tech considerately explained the problem and showed me how to do it myself. [push cleaning 
button, pull plug immediately when heads move to left, take out four screws and remove 
cowling (magnetic screwdriver a help), push lever to raise blade, clean with alcohol (leave no 
lint!), reassemble].

Hi Paul and co,
thanks for your thoughts.

It has just occurred to me that I didn't take the foil strips off the top of five of the carts until they were in the machine and someone had emailed to say that you were meant to do so.

The one that *had* been removed was the Eboni and that printed fine straight away.

So maybe it was my fault.

Richard
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

   A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the 
   better lawyer."
   --Robert Frost

Perhaps I should keep my thoughts to myself in fear that I may join
the people suffering with MIS UT7 inks and an Epson 2200.

However, I must echo Paul Roark's remarks.  Upon his recommendation, I
bought MIS UT7 inks and refillable cartridges about 18 months ago for
a newly purchased second-hand Epson 2200.  A good number of nozzles
failed to print when I replaced the existing color cartridges.  Can't
recall what or where I obtained a nozzle cleaning fluid that was
applied to the parking pad.  If I recall correctly, I went through the
cleaning routine three times before getting a perfect nozzle check.

Sometimes after the printer has set for a couple of weeks (power off)
one specific nozzle will fail.  A single cleaning cycle clears it.  I
try to do a nozzle check at least once a week when I am otherwise
engaged than BW printing.

Reinald

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> I have used a lot of MIS ink in a many different printers.  I can't
say that
> they are more or less prone to clogs than Epson ink, but the only time I
> have clogs is when a printer sits unused for a week.  If you're
having clogs
> more than this there may be something wrong with the printer - like the
> capping station is not sealing.  Cleaning the printer helps.  Junk
can be on
> the bottom side of the head and not wiped off by the wiper blade. 
The blade
> may be old and stiff or just dirty.  Pigments can pile up on the
foam pad at
> the left.
> 
>  
> 
> Remember with new empty carts that they need priming to get rid of
the air
> bubble.
> 
>  
> 
> I tend not to use MIS pre-filled carts.  I suspect MIS can't pull as
good a
> vacuum when filling these, so there could be an air bell at the
outlet there
> also.  When I vacuum fill a cart, I also shake it like a thermometer
to help

> get the ink down to the outlet and the air away from the outlet.
> 
>  
>

I'd like to echo Paul's comments. Don't let concerns about
blockage put you off MIS inks. Since I switched to filling
my own MIS cartridges, I've had no trouble with blockages.
I just run a cleaning cycle when I haven't used the printer
for a few weeks. And since the ink costs much less than the
comparable Epson inks (UT7 is less than a quarter of the price of 
K3, for example), the cleaning cycles don't trouble me.
Filling your own cartridges is very easy, and I recommend it
highly.

--Daniel

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "djon43" 
<djon43@...> wrote:

This may be a bit off topic, but what method do you use daily to 
unclog the printer? I am having a hard time getting a good purge 
sheet to print in spite of running 3 cleaning clycle, print a purge 
sheet, clean more print again etc.

Regards, Tony


> Yes, I use UT7 with 2200 and have to unclog between uses, even if 
only
> after a day. That's an expense I accept because I like the looks of
> UT7. I don't know if that's typically 20% but it surely is 
sometimes,
> when multiple unclogs are necessary...which means each cart costs an
> extra $2-3 if one compares to OEM.
> 
> From the beginning I knew/believed  clogs were certain with MIS and
> every none-OEM, and I've not seen any credible report to the 
contrary.
> I've had a grand total of one clog with OEM in that machine in 
several
> years. 
> 
> Is Piezo any less clog-prone? I can't think why it would be and I'm
> not interested in experimentation. 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard
> Smallfield <r.smallfield@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > having installed my first MIS cartridges in years, I've used up 
20%
> of the ink just trying to get a good nozzle check on my 2100. more
> than enough to offset any price advantage, at least with prefilled
> carts. Maybe with a CFS it would still be worth it for me, but I
> haven't the time to spend just getting the nozzles to work.
> > 
> > This never happens with OEM inks and is the reason why I gave up 
on
> UT inks years ago.
> > 
> > The idea of using MIS inks appeals, but I can't see myself 
changing

> over again with this sort of performance.
> > 
> > Richard
> > --
> > http://smallfield.vze.com
> > http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> > http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> > http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 
> > 
> >    "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. 
> >    Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
> >    Begin it now."
> >    --Goethe
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "stasunas" <Astasunas@...> 
wrote:
> 
> This may be a bit off topic, but what method do you use daily to 
> unclog the printer? I am having a hard time getting a good purge 
> sheet to print in spite of running 3 cleaning clycle, print a purge 
> sheet, clean more print again etc.

I had such good luck with a couple of R220s that sit for long times that I got really 
careless and left one for two months in southern heat without cartridges in it.  It was badly 
clogged as could be expected.   What worked for me was

Run a set of cleaning carts with windex.  Do the cleaning cycle three times.  Load 20 
sheets of cheap copy paper and print Paul Roark's purge six file at matte heavyweight 
settings 20 times.  Then let the printer sit overnight.  Next day install the  ink cartridges 
and do a nozzle check.  If it is not clear, stop immediately, re-install the cleaning carts, 
clean three times and then run the twenty sheets of purge six again setting the image to 
another part of the paper, then let sit overnight again.  Next day, install ink carts, one 
nozzle check and if not successful immediately back to the cleaning carts, three head 
cleans, 20 purge six etc.  My worst blockage (more than half the nozzles not firing) took 
four days but now prints fine.

One thing I did discover was that running repeated head cleaning cycles actually made 
things worse.  I also think that air in the carts can have a lot to do with what people think 
are clogs, sitting overnight seems to help there as well.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"robert49brake" <robert49brake@...> wrote:

> things worse.  I also think that air in the carts can have a lot 
to do with what people think 
> are clogs, sitting overnight seems to help there as well.
>
Certainly I've had many more problems, on several printers, due to 
air than with clogs.  Some MIS carts (various types) I've had were 
faulty and leaked one way or another - the leaks can be very slow and 
lead to a little air lock after days or weeks.  (MIS were always good 
at replacing these when asked - even though I'm in Europe.)

IMHO it is quite important to determine whether the problem is air or 
clogs, as the approach to a cure is different. 

Nearly every time I had an air lock normal cleaning cycles made it 
worse - symptoms such as: a colour that had been OK or partially 
printing suddenly disappears (nearly) entirely as no more ink gets to 
the nozzles. 

To state the obvious: cleaning the wiper blade won't fix air locks 
and replacing faulty carts won't clean the wiper blade. It seems 
likely that, most of the time, dirt from the wiper blade will cover 
part of the head in a way that affects some nozzles on one or more 
colour, rather than every nozzle on one colour.  Is this other's 
experience too?  I've only had wiper blade problems once, and the 
symptom was a gap through the middle of every colour due to a stripe 
of dirt on the head. 

Of course it is not clear cut - I've seen people claiming that their 
wiper blade problem leads to a whole colour going missing....it just 
seems improbable to me that this would usually be the case.

Ken