Digital BW, The Print

This forum like so many others seems to have degenerated into 
personal questions and flippant answers. I have been a lurker and I 
have learnt much in the past from this forum on the subject of Black 
and White printing. Now I find that I have to wade through a lot of 
C**P to find anything to do with Black and White printing. Guys (and 
Girls) let get the forum back on track and stick to Black and White 
printing issues. 

There are other forums that would be better for lots of these posts.

I would hope that my post does not prevoke yet a lot more Flame 
about off topic matters.
Sincerely

flyfishing2002

on 1/30/02 4:17 PM, flyfishingusa2002 wrote:

> This forum like so many others seems to have degenerated into
> personal questions and flippant answers. I have been a lurker and I
> have learnt much in the past from this forum on the subject of Black
> and White printing. Now I find that I have to wade through a lot of
> C**P to find anything to do with Black and White printing. Guys (and
> Girls) let get the forum back on track and stick to Black and White
> printing issues. 
> 
> There are other forums that would be better for lots of these posts.
> 
> I would hope that my post does not prevoke yet a lot more Flame
> about off topic matters.
> Sincerely
> 
> flyfishing2002

Give them credit for contributing something to the list, including real
names.

Todd

> Give them credit for contributing something to the list, including real
> names.
> 
> Todd


Love that... Carolyn  (one of the 'girls')

Hi Mr. Fishing

> This forum like so many others seems to have degenerated into
> personal questions and flippant answers.

I haven't seen any flippant answers in the threads I've been reading.  Also,
there have only been a FEW "personal questions", and that is hardly uncommon
in a mailing list.

> I have been a lurker and I
> have learnt much in the past from this forum on the subject of Black
> and White printing. Now I find that I have to wade through a lot of
> C**P to find anything to do with Black and White printing. Guys (and
> Girls) let get the forum back on track and stick to Black and White
> printing issues.

Well, this list is about much more than just printing.  It's about DIGITAL
B&W, as the name states.  Discussion about digital cameras, scanners and
other subjects that are related to "digital B&W" are most certainly ON
topic.

> There are other forums that would be better for lots of these posts.

Some, but hardly "lots".

> I would hope that my post does not prevoke yet a lot more Flame
> about off topic matters.

Well, then why post it, or better yet, why not make a post about something
that, in your opinion, is on-topic?

Austin

> <snip?
>
> Well, this list is about much more than just printing.  It's about
> DIGITAL
> B&W, as the name states.  Discussion about digital cameras, scanners
> and
> other subjects that are related to "digital B&W" are most certainly ON
>
> topic.
>
>

The name of this group is:  "Digital Black and White The Print"  Note
the term print in the name of the group.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes... and all the ways and all the means and all the knowledge that anyone
cares to share on HOW they got that print.

Carolyn

> 
> The name of this group is:  "Digital Black and White The Print"  Note
> the term print in the name of the group.

> > Well, this list is about much more than just printing.  It's about
> > DIGITAL
> > B&W, as the name states.  Discussion about digital cameras, scanners
> > and
> > other subjects that are related to "digital B&W" are most certainly ON
> >
> > topic.
> >
> >
>
> The name of this group is:  "Digital Black and White The Print"  Note
> the term print in the name of the group.

William,

Obviously the subject line says "Digital BW"...yes, the email address (and
"official" group name does include "the print", but what does that mean?
That, taken literally, does not mean "printing", as it does not say "...the
printing thereof...", and if it was, would mean the discussion of only the
print it self, not printing techniques.

This group has ALWAYS been about discussing digital B&W techniques, not ONLY
printing.  Allow me to quote the actual description of this groups purpose
here for your convenience:

"This forum was founded for the discussion and exchange of information about
all the TECNHOLOGIES AND TECHNIQUES THAT CAN BE USED TO PRODUCE A QUALITY
B&W PRINT FROM A DIGITAL SOURCE. The intent here is to bring together those
resources in one location to further the craft and technology of B&W
output."

To me, at least, discussion of the digital source is encompassed in this
discussion, and the digital sources are also scanners and digital cameras.
If the list owners feel differently, then they might want to pipe up and say
so, but given the past discussions, I believe they have no problem with
these types of discussions.

Austin

Carolyn Frayn wrote:

>  Yes... and all the ways and all the means and all the knowledge that
> anyone
> cares to share on HOW they got that print.
>
> Carolyn

I haven't seen much of the above lately.
I now know more then I need to know about Canon lenses.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I expected personal flame, and I got it!!
What the hell has where a lens is made got anything to do with black 
and white printing? Why not use ICQ to chat and discuss it? CD r/w 
question?  What had this to do with B?W printing? I bet there are 
outher forums to better annwer this. There are just a few threads 
with losts of posts by a few people. Why don't they just ICQ each 
other?
I have lots of questions which I would like anwered about using my 
3000, but there doesn't seem much other activity in the forum other 
than these off topics posts. The "Horses Mouth" being a prime 
example. 
I will NOT respond to any posts on this subject as I will be guilty 
of the same thing. But if you want to email me go ahead, my user 
name is above. My name, as if it makes any difference is Baz.

All the best and lets not forget Sep 11 2001

Baz

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Austin Franklin" 
<darkroom@i...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mr. Fishing
> 
> > This forum like so many others seems to have degenerated into
> > personal questions and flippant answers.
> 
> I haven't seen any flippant answers in the threads I've been 
reading.  Also,
> there have only been a FEW "personal questions", and that is 
hardly uncommon
> in a mailing list.
> 
> > I have been a lurker and I
> > have learnt much in the past from this forum on the subject of 
Black
> > and White printing. Now I find that I have to wade through a lot 
of
> > C**P to find anything to do with Black and White printing. Guys 
(and
> > Girls) let get the forum back on track and stick to Black and 
White
> > printing issues.
> 
> Well, this list is about much more than just printing.  It's about 
DIGITAL
> B&W, as the name states.  Discussion about digital cameras, 
scanners and
> other subjects that are related to "digital B&W" are most 
certainly ON
> topic.
> 
> > There are other forums that would be better for lots of these 
posts.
> 
> Some, but hardly "lots".
> 
> > I would hope that my post does not prevoke yet a lot more Flame
> > about off topic matters.
> 
> Well, then why post it, or better yet, why not make a post about 
something

> that, in your opinion, is on-topic?
> 
> Austin

Hi William, I'm sorry you feel that way...

I'm not familair with you at all and only see your name here since the 20th.
I've been away a while but have always found this list and the people on it
to be very helpful, funny, kind and sometimes wonderfully obnoxious...
personably, human.

I've always found it is easy to skip over threads that do not interest me.

Carolyn


> I haven't seen much of the above lately.
> I now know more then I need to know about Canon lenses.

William wrote:

>
>
> Carolyn Frayn wrote:
>
> >  Yes... and all the ways and all the means and all the knowledge that
> > anyone
> > cares to share on HOW they got that print.
> >
> > Carolyn
>
> I haven't seen much of the above lately.
> I now know more then I need to know about Canon lenses.

And that's why God invented the 'delete' key.

And while we are complaining.......
As a self admitted 'lurker' how dare you complain about topics that you add
nothing to.

Let's face it, you are just a user and have no right to complain.  Well, you
*can* complain, but we might not pay any attention to those complaints since you
only take.


Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you have questions about your 3000 why don't you just ask them rather then
waiting for someone else to ask the question you want?  That way, you might find
it a more interesting place.....And complain less.  ;-)

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


flyfishingusa2002 wrote:

>  I expected personal flame, and I got it!!
> What the hell has where a lens is made got anything to do with black
> and white printing? Why not use ICQ to chat and discuss it? CD r/w
> question?  What had this to do with B?W printing? I bet there are
> outher forums to better annwer this. There are just a few threads
> with losts of posts by a few people. Why don't they just ICQ each
> other?
> I have lots of questions which I would like anwered about using my
> 3000, but there doesn't seem much other activity in the forum other
> than these off topics posts. The "Horses Mouth" being a prime
> example.
> I will NOT respond to any posts on this subject as I will be guilty
> of the same thing. But if you want to email me go ahead, my user
> name is above. My name, as if it makes any difference is Baz.
>
> All the best and lets not forget Sep 11 2001
>
> Baz
>
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Austin Franklin"
> <darkroom@i...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mr. Fishing
> >
> > > This forum like so many others seems to have degenerated into
> > > personal questions and flippant answers.
> >
> > I haven't seen any flippant answers in the threads I've been
> reading.  Also,
> > there have only been a FEW "personal questions", and that is
> hardly uncommon
> > in a mailing list.
> >
> > > I have been a lurker and I
> > > have learnt much in the past from this forum on the subject of
> Black
> > > and White printing. Now I find that I have to wade through a lot
> of
> > > C**P to find anything to do with Black and White printing. Guys
> (and
> > > Girls) let get the forum back on track and stick to Black and
> White
> > > printing issues.
> >
> > Well, this list is about much more than just printing.  It's about
> DIGITAL
> > B&W, as the name states.  Discussion about digital cameras,
> scanners and
> > other subjects that are related to "digital B&W" are most
> certainly ON
> > topic.
> >
> > > There are other forums that would be better for lots of these
> posts.
> >
> > Some, but hardly "lots".
> >
> > > I would hope that my post does not prevoke yet a lot more Flame
> > > about off topic matters.
> >
> > Well, then why post it, or better yet, why not make a post about
> something
> > that, in your opinion, is on-topic?
> >
> > Austin
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Baz,

> I expected personal flame, and I got it!!

I didn't flame you at all, what I did was respond, what I thought was very
thoughtfully, to your post.

> What the hell has where a lens is made got anything to do with black
> and white printing?

Nothing, but so what?

> CD r/w
> question?  What had this to do with B?W printing?

Storage of digital data, I see no problem with asking about that here.  It's
an important topic, and is somewhat particular to digital imaging.

> I bet there are
> outher forums to better annwer this.

Perhaps, but there are some very knowledgeable people here who are
experienced in this very topic, as it relates to digital imaging.  Why not
ask here?

> There are just a few threads
> with losts of posts by a few people.

Sometimes only a few people have a lot of knowledge on that subject, or
responses from others are redundant...

> Why don't they just ICQ each
> other?

Because other people don't benefit from the information if it's kept
private.

> I have lots of questions which I would like anwered about using my
> 3000, but there doesn't seem much other activity in the forum other
> than these off topics posts.

I don't understand why even if you consider other posts off topic, you don't
just ask about the 3000.  I have a LOT of knowledge about the 3000, as I
have two of the, as well as wrote an entire alignment suite for them.  Many
other people here use the 3000 too, and certainly know as much as I do, if
not more.

> My name, as if it makes any difference is Baz.

Kind of like "Baz Fishing"?  That was a joke...

Regards,

Austin

Michael,
If I had not thought it was necessary I would not have responded like that,
would I?

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

>  Harvey,
>
> Is that really necessary?
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: SKID Photography
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:39 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Off topic subject,
>
>
>   And that's why God invented the 'delete' key.
>
>   And while we are complaining.......
>   As a self admitted 'lurker' how dare you complain about topics that you add
>   nothing to.
>
>   Let's face it, you are just a user and have no right to complain.  Well, you
>
>   *can* complain, but we might not pay any attention to those complaints since
> you
>   only take.
>
>
>   Harvey Ferdschneider
>   partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harvey,

Is that really necessary?

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SKID Photography 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Off topic subject,


  And that's why God invented the 'delete' key.

  And while we are complaining.......
  As a self admitted 'lurker' how dare you complain about topics that you add
  nothing to.

  Let's face it, you are just a user and have no right to complain.  Well, you
  *can* complain, but we might not pay any attention to those complaints since you
  only take.


  Harvey Ferdschneider
  partner, SKID Photography, NYC


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Now follows the inevitable off-topic argument thread, where it would have 
been so much easier to get on-topic by asking a sensible question or two...

On Wednesday 30 Jan 2002 9:17 pm, flyfishingusa2002 wrote:
> This forum like so many others seems to have degenerated into
> personal questions and flippant answers. I have been a lurker and I
> have learnt much in the past from this forum on the subject of Black
> and White printing. Now I find that I have to wade through a lot of
> C**P to find anything to do with Black and White printing. Guys (and
> Girls) let get the forum back on track and stick to Black and White
> printing issues.
>
> There are other forums that would be better for lots of these posts.
>
> I would hope that my post does not prevoke yet a lot more Flame
> about off topic matters.

On Wednesday 30 Jan 2002 11:14 pm, flyfishingusa2002 wrote:
> I have lots of questions which I would like anwered about using my
> 3000,

So why don't you simply ask them instead of descending into the tedium of the 
classic off-topic post rant?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography 
<skid@b...> wrote:
> Michael,
> If I had not thought it was necessary I would not have 
responded like that,
> would I?
> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider

Come on, Harvey,
it wasn´t a mortal sin.
Bernd

> 
> > Why don't they just ICQ each
> > other?
> 
> Because other people don't benefit from the information if it's kept
> private.
> 

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Austin

Daniel Elghanayan
Cleveland Ohio