Digital BW, The Print

Dear all,

My tools : Epson 3800, PrintFix Pro v2.1, PSCS2, QTR, calibrated Eizo 
screen.
 
I am fan of B&W and just bought the 3800! What a fantastic tool!  

My favorite papers are semi gloss (such as Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl) 
since IMO the blacks are richer and deeper than with the fine art 
papers (I use also Hahnemuhle Photo Rag). 

Now of course I would like to fine tune my settings with the 3800 and 
I very carefully studied the excellent workflows described by Eric 
Chan 
(http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html)
 and Giorgo Trucco 
(http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html). 

My first conclusions : 

with no specific profile, the results with B&W pics printed on FAP 
are really better with the Epson ABW mode (set to dark, 2880dpi and 
semi gloss paper) than when using the Color mode (all my files are 
RGB/16bit); with the color mode, I loose all details on the deepest 
shadows and the transitions are poor. 

With the PrintFix Pro (v.2) software and the Colorvision 
spectrocolorimeter, the profile I have made for Fine Art Paper does 
make a real improvement for the color pictures, still not for the B&W 
ones (Epson ABW mode is still better with respect to the deepest 
shadow details). 
 
Following Chan's and Trucco's recommendations, I did the following to 
optimize b&w prints on FAP paper:

-          I printed a 100-step gray scale (as provided by Roy 
Harrington with QTR) using the Epson ABW mode (dark, 2880 dpi) : I 
noticed visually that there was a huge gap between the 100% black and 
the 99% (confirmed by the readings of density from 2.06 to 1.70)

-          I read the 100 patches (plus 1 for the 100% white) with 
the PrintFix spectro using the "measure" menu (which gives in a txt 
file the Lab readings)

-          I converted the txt file using QTR Create ICC.exe to 
obtain an .icc profile.


Now, I am blocked! How can I use such profile (I put it in the 
relevant windows folder) to print a picture under Photoshop using the 
same settings as for the 100-step gray scale? Indeed, how can I apply 
such profile to print going through the Epson ABW mode (I had to 
check "lets printer determine the color" to be able to print through 
the ABW mode; if I apply the profile in the "Print with preview", 
then I will have to check the "no color management" option in the 
Epson driver and use the color mode.)

I must have missed something…! In both above mentionned workflows, 
their authors mentionned that you may use the .icc profile obtained 
via a spectrophotometer/colorimeter to "soft prove" and "print". 

What I did (certainly wrongly) to move forward : I applied to my file 
the profile (using the photoshop "convert to profile" option) and 
then printed through the ABW mode : the result was really not 
satisfactory with all my deep shadow details converted to 100% 
blacks. 

The question I have is according to these workflows, how can I use 
this profile and still go trough the ABW mode to print. The question 
is not about neutrality but about linearization (when I see the 100 
step gray scale, I see the need to have a better transition in the 
100% to 95% areas). 

Thank you for your contribution and your help.

Jean-Marc Humbert
Paris, France

I think that, when using ABW, the profile is used for soft-proofing
only. With it you can view the way the image should print (and thus
make adjustments so that it prints the way you want) prior to printing it.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jean-Marc
Humbert" <humbertjm@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
> 
> My tools : Epson 3800, PrintFix Pro v2.1, PSCS2, QTR, calibrated Eizo 
> screen.
>  
> I am fan of B&W and just bought the 3800! What a fantastic tool!  
> 
> My favorite papers are semi gloss (such as Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl) 
> since IMO the blacks are richer and deeper than with the fine art 
> papers (I use also Hahnemuhle Photo Rag). 
> 
> Now of course I would like to fine tune my settings with the 3800 and 
> I very carefully studied the excellent workflows described by Eric 
> Chan 
> (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html)
>  and Giorgo Trucco 
> (http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html). 
> 
> My first conclusions : 
> 
> with no specific profile, the results with B&W pics printed on FAP 
> are really better with the Epson ABW mode (set to dark, 2880dpi and 
> semi gloss paper) than when using the Color mode (all my files are 
> RGB/16bit); with the color mode, I loose all details on the deepest 
> shadows and the transitions are poor. 
> 
> With the PrintFix Pro (v.2) software and the Colorvision 
> spectrocolorimeter, the profile I have made for Fine Art Paper does 
> make a real improvement for the color pictures, still not for the B&W 
> ones (Epson ABW mode is still better with respect to the deepest 
> shadow details). 
>  
> Following Chan's and Trucco's recommendations, I did the following to 
> optimize b&w prints on FAP paper:
> 
> -          I printed a 100-step gray scale (as provided by Roy 
> Harrington with QTR) using the Epson ABW mode (dark, 2880 dpi) : I 
> noticed visually that there was a huge gap between the 100% black and 
> the 99% (confirmed by the readings of density from 2.06 to 1.70)
> 
> -          I read the 100 patches (plus 1 for the 100% white) with 
> the PrintFix spectro using the "measure" menu (which gives in a txt 
> file the Lab readings)
> 
> -          I converted the txt file using QTR Create ICC.exe to 
> obtain an .icc profile.
> 
> 
> Now, I am blocked! How can I use such profile (I put it in the 
> relevant windows folder) to print a picture under Photoshop using the 
> same settings as for the 100-step gray scale? Indeed, how can I apply 
> such profile to print going through the Epson ABW mode (I had to 
> check "lets printer determine the color" to be able to print through 
> the ABW mode; if I apply the profile in the "Print with preview", 
> then I will have to check the "no color management" option in the 
> Epson driver and use the color mode.)
> 
> I must have missed something
! In both above mentionned workflows, 

> their authors mentionned that you may use the .icc profile obtained 
> via a spectrophotometer/colorimeter to "soft prove" and "print". 
> 
> What I did (certainly wrongly) to move forward : I applied to my file 
> the profile (using the photoshop "convert to profile" option) and 
> then printed through the ABW mode : the result was really not 
> satisfactory with all my deep shadow details converted to 100% 
> blacks. 
> 
> The question I have is according to these workflows, how can I use 
> this profile and still go trough the ABW mode to print. The question 
> is not about neutrality but about linearization (when I see the 100 
> step gray scale, I see the need to have a better transition in the 
> 100% to 95% areas). 
> 
> Thank you for your contribution and your help.
> 
> Jean-Marc Humbert
> Paris, France
>

Hi Jean-Marc,

You use the creat icc profile, just like you would a colour profile to soft
proof and print.
You set photoshop to "let photoshop manage colour", but you also set the
printer's set up to ABW with the same settings you used to create the
patches.

Mike


On 27/08/07, Jean-Marc Humbert <humbertjm@...> wrote:
>
>   Dear all,
>
> My tools : Epson 3800, PrintFix Pro v2.1, PSCS2, QTR, calibrated Eizo
> screen.
>
> I am fan of B&W and just bought the 3800! What a fantastic tool!
>
> My favorite papers are semi gloss (such as Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl)
> since IMO the blacks are richer and deeper than with the fine art
> papers (I use also Hahnemuhle Photo Rag).
>
> Now of course I would like to fine tune my settings with the 3800 and
> I very carefully studied the excellent workflows described by Eric
> Chan
> (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html)
> and Giorgo Trucco
> (http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html).
>
> My first conclusions :
>
> with no specific profile, the results with B&W pics printed on FAP
> are really better with the Epson ABW mode (set to dark, 2880dpi and
> semi gloss paper) than when using the Color mode (all my files are
> RGB/16bit); with the color mode, I loose all details on the deepest
> shadows and the transitions are poor.
>
> With the PrintFix Pro (v.2) software and the Colorvision
> spectrocolorimeter, the profile I have made for Fine Art Paper does
> make a real improvement for the color pictures, still not for the B&W
> ones (Epson ABW mode is still better with respect to the deepest
> shadow details).
>
> Following Chan's and Trucco's recommendations, I did the following to
> optimize b&w prints on FAP paper:
>
> - I printed a 100-step gray scale (as provided by Roy
> Harrington with QTR) using the Epson ABW mode (dark, 2880 dpi) : I
> noticed visually that there was a huge gap between the 100% black and
> the 99% (confirmed by the readings of density from 2.06 to 1.70)
>
> - I read the 100 patches (plus 1 for the 100% white) with
> the PrintFix spectro using the "measure" menu (which gives in a txt
> file the Lab readings)
>
> - I converted the txt file using QTR Create ICC.exe to
> obtain an .icc profile.
>
> Now, I am blocked! How can I use such profile (I put it in the
> relevant windows folder) to print a picture under Photoshop using the
> same settings as for the 100-step gray scale? Indeed, how can I apply
> such profile to print going through the Epson ABW mode (I had to
> check "lets printer determine the color" to be able to print through
> the ABW mode; if I apply the profile in the "Print with preview",
> then I will have to check the "no color management" option in the
> Epson driver and use the color mode.)
>
> I must have missed something�! In both above mentionned workflows,
> their authors mentionned that you may use the .icc profile obtained
> via a spectrophotometer/colorimeter to "soft prove" and "print".
>
> What I did (certainly wrongly) to move forward : I applied to my file
> the profile (using the photoshop "convert to profile" option) and
> then printed through the ABW mode : the result was really not
> satisfactory with all my deep shadow details converted to 100%
> blacks.
>
> The question I have is according to these workflows, how can I use
> this profile and still go trough the ABW mode to print. The question
> is not about neutrality but about linearization (when I see the 100
> step gray scale, I see the need to have a better transition in the
> 100% to 95% areas).
>
> Thank you for your contribution and your help.
>
> Jean-Marc Humbert
> Paris, France
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bonjour Jean Marc,
   
  I cannot help you for this (sorry!), but may be you can help me.
  I'm using Epson R2400, QTR, PSCS2, and calibrated ViewSonic screen with MonacoEZ.
   
  I'm about to buy a PrintFix Pro but I'm wondering if it bring much, I've made a big mistake buying the monaco system with printer calibration through scanner, and I do not want to make the same mistake another time.
   
  Also, I tried to go to "QRT create ICC" for investigation but I could not understand what to do as there is no interface screen. Do you know an address where I could find information about it, or if you have information to give.
   
  Thanks for your help.
  A+ Daniel
  En Francais c'est aussi possible (Je suis Francais vivant a ShangHai)

Jean-Marc Humbert <humbertjm@...> wrote:
          Dear all,

My tools : Epson 3800, PrintFix Pro v2.1, PSCS2, QTR, calibrated Eizo 
screen.

I am fan of B&W and just bought the 3800! What a fantastic tool! 

My favorite papers are semi gloss (such as Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl) 
since IMO the blacks are richer and deeper than with the fine art 
papers (I use also Hahnemuhle Photo Rag). 

Now of course I would like to fine tune my settings with the 3800 and 
I very carefully studied the excellent workflows described by Eric 
Chan 
(http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html)
and Giorgo Trucco 
(http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi045/essay.html). 

My first conclusions : 

with no specific profile, the results with B&W pics printed on FAP 
are really better with the Epson ABW mode (set to dark, 2880dpi and 
semi gloss paper) than when using the Color mode (all my files are 
RGB/16bit); with the color mode, I loose all details on the deepest 
shadows and the transitions are poor. 

With the PrintFix Pro (v.2) software and the Colorvision 
spectrocolorimeter, the profile I have made for Fine Art Paper does 
make a real improvement for the color pictures, still not for the B&W 
ones (Epson ABW mode is still better with respect to the deepest 
shadow details). 

Following Chan's and Trucco's recommendations, I did the following to 
optimize b&w prints on FAP paper:

- I printed a 100-step gray scale (as provided by Roy 
Harrington with QTR) using the Epson ABW mode (dark, 2880 dpi) : I 
noticed visually that there was a huge gap between the 100% black and 
the 99% (confirmed by the readings of density from 2.06 to 1.70)

- I read the 100 patches (plus 1 for the 100% white) with 
the PrintFix spectro using the "measure" menu (which gives in a txt 
file the Lab readings)

- I converted the txt file using QTR Create ICC.exe to 
obtain an .icc profile.

Now, I am blocked! How can I use such profile (I put it in the 
relevant windows folder) to print a picture under Photoshop using the 
same settings as for the 100-step gray scale? Indeed, how can I apply 
such profile to print going through the Epson ABW mode (I had to 
check "lets printer determine the color" to be able to print through 
the ABW mode; if I apply the profile in the "Print with preview", 
then I will have to check the "no color management" option in the 
Epson driver and use the color mode.)

I must have missed something…! In both above mentionned workflows, 
their authors mentionned that you may use the .icc profile obtained 
via a spectrophotometer/colorimeter to "soft prove" and "print". 

What I did (certainly wrongly) to move forward : I applied to my file 
the profile (using the photoshop "convert to profile" option) and 
then printed through the ABW mode : the result was really not 
satisfactory with all my deep shadow details converted to 100% 
blacks. 

The question I have is according to these workflows, how can I use 
this profile and still go trough the ABW mode to print. The question 
is not about neutrality but about linearization (when I see the 100 
step gray scale, I see the need to have a better transition in the 
100% to 95% areas). 

Thank you for your contribution and your help.

Jean-Marc Humbert
Paris, France



                         

       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To print using an QuadTone RIP ABW profile, set Photoshop's Color
Handling menu to Let Photoshop Determine Colors, select your ABW
profile from the Printer Profile menu, set the rendering intent to
Perceptual. Black Point Compensation won't matter. Might as well leave
it on. Then in the Epson driver, use the exact same settings as you
used to print out the profile target.

The same ABW profile can be used for soft-proofing as well as printing.

Eric