Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-19 by nsams2002
How's Lightroom working out for black/white conversion for those using it? Thanks. Norm
Thread
Adobe Lightroom?
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-19 by Kip Babington
I used the LR beta version for several months and generally liked the way I could get BW images, and I started to get used to the interface. But I didn't go with the production version when it became available because (1) I already had a system in place for image management and especially for "contact print" production (IMatch) that I didn't want to give up for a new database system, (2) I often use some of the PS tools (healing brush, paintbrush, clone tool, etc.) that weren't available in LR and I didn't want to have to switch out to PS to use them, and (3) I had used Convert B&W Pro (a third-party PS plug-in) from my (digital) beginning to do B&W conversions and was just more comfortable with its film/darkroom-like controls. If I were starting from scratch I probably would have considered VERY seriously going with LR and would have been happy with what I didn't know, but with my history it just wasn't worth it. To me. YMMV. Cheers, Kip nsams2002 wrote: > > How's Lightroom working out for black/white conversion for those using > it? Thanks. > > Norm > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-19 by Joost Horsten
I can compare Lightroom with Photoshop CS2. Lightroom has a much better color mixer functionality than CS2" 6 or 8 channels versus only 3. Plus Lightroom has a nice interactive color pick function. On the downside: LR adjustments apply always on the entie image. So no burning, dodging,local curves and all the neat tricks PS has to offer. So in the end I always prefer PS. From what I hear is that Photoshop CS3 has a similar color mixer as Lightroom, so will combine the best of both worlds. In the end, the two are very different tools, Lightroom a very good photomanager package + raw convertor, with very decent image adjustment functions. Photoshop remains the gold standard for image manipulation. I'm happily combining the two in tandem: it's so easy to launch PS from Lightroom.. Joost --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Kip Babington <cbabing3@...> wrote: > > I used the LR beta version for several months and generally liked the > way I could get BW images, and I started to get used to the interface. > But I didn't go with the production version when it became available > because (1) I already had a system in place for image management and > especially for "contact print" production (IMatch) that I didn't want to > give up for a new database system, (2) I often use some of the PS tools > (healing brush, paintbrush, clone tool, etc.) that weren't available in > LR and I didn't want to have to switch out to PS to use them, and (3) I > had used Convert B&W Pro (a third-party PS plug-in) from my (digital) > beginning to do B&W conversions and was just more comfortable with its > film/darkroom-like controls. > > If I were starting from scratch I probably would have considered VERY > seriously going with LR and would have been happy with what I didn't > know, but with my history it just wasn't worth it. To me. YMMV. > > Cheers, > Kip > > nsams2002 wrote: > > > > How's Lightroom working out for black/white conversion for those using
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> > it? Thanks. > > > > Norm > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by James Haney
My opinion of Lightroom: I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. Importing: I use it to import my images from my DF cards. In one step: Copy as DNG to a main folder defined for the current year Lightroom automatically creates a folder here named however you want, but I have it make a folder named YYYY-MM-DD (Lightroom automatically determines the correct entries for these date values.) Renames in coming files using capture date and unique ID (you can define this a million different ways to suit your purposes as user-defined presets) Make a backup copy to a server directory (or another drive etc.) Apply a basic set of values as a good baseline I include copyright, date, my name, address, phone, web address, etc. Batch apply and embed meta-data and keywords I quick-tag using the subject of the shoot or anything that applies to the whole shoot At this point they are represented in the Lightroom database as a Folder Reviewing: I move through the shoot either promoting or demoting individual images. (Flags) (Keyboard command to batch-delete demoted images) Multiple, powerful compare modes help select the best images Rough edit, visualization At this point, I use one of the most powerful tools of the system, I create VIrtual Copies of the images I want to convert to black and white. A virtual copy is a set of meta-data that points to the original image source data, but filters it through a separate set of values. This Virtual Copy I open in the Develop module where I convert it to Black and White, apply sharpening, cropping, rotation, and a million other options. - This Virtual copy is not a duplicate of the source image, it is just a set of XML data that specifies how to process the file. each virtual copy takes up about 32k of space and there is no limit to how many you have. I put the Virtual Copies for the project into a Lightroom Collection. This is just a shopping basket of sorts that allows you to group a set of images (or Virtual Copies) into a manageable and meaningful set. Batch export for review Export rough edited images as jpegs (or any other format) if I need to show them to clients or to post on the web. Lightroom has some absolutely amazing Web export modules. Production I use the tools in the Lightroom Develop module to do all of my global color and tone control. High light and shadow point setting (Levels) Basic tone curves B&W conversion Capture sharpening This is done with a very critical eye. The tools in this module are basically identical to those in Adobe Camera Raw, but I think work better and are far more easily accomplished in the context of the Lightroom interface. Export to Photoshop Every tool has its purpose and its limits. Even though you can do cloning in Lightroom, it is only useful for very basic edits. I do all local, regional or pixel based editing in Photoshop. I control-click on the image in LR and choose "Edit with Photoshop" This presents me with a dialog box where I choose "Edit a Copy with Lightroom adjustments", "16 bit TIFF" and "Stack with Original" You end up with a TIFF image in the same folder as the source image. You can specify how you want LR to name files that it creates. I append "_v01" to the end of the name. The file opens as an RGB TIFF file in PS. (If your image was converted to pure black and white in LR then Red, Green, and Blue values are all identical. conversion to Greyscale will not change the tone of the images) Discussion of LR split toning is another discussion) All of your LR adjustments have been applied to this image, so it will look just like it did in LR. I created a Photoshop action that: Converts to Greyscale Creates some basic curve layers that I always use with the names I want them to have Now I am off to the races! In PS I have way more control of the image, I can softproof (not available in LR), etc. When you save the file and go back to LR you will find a new image in the folder, and collection you were in before. This is the TIFF file you created. You can re-open it from LR with "Edit with Photoshop" and choose instead "Edit Original." This will launch the TIFF version. Interestingly, you can make additional edits using Lightroom Develop tools on the B&W TIF file. This gets a little strange and complicated to understand but basically, it just works! In previous version of Lightroom I could not get QuadTone RIP to print properly. However, suddenly, with version 1.3, I use the QTR- RGB profile and I can use the truly outstanding Print module of Lightroom to print individual files, groups of images, crop on the fly without changing the image in Photoshop, without even opening the file in Photoshop. If I sound like a true believer, I am. I spend so much more of my time editing and producing images and far, far less time managing files, creating scripts, investigating various tools and re-inventing my process every 2 months to incorporate an change in technology. In my portrait work, I used to spend 2 hours getting a batch of images imported, renamed, in iView, tagged with meta-data, roughly edited to make them presentable and exported to the software I use for client presentation and editing. I used three Applescripts, a shareware program and iView Media Pro. Now this is all done in about 15 minutes, with one program. I have used all of the RGB-B&W conversion utilities out there and there is nothing that is any better than the tools in LR in my opinion. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. Besides purchasing Photoshop, Lightroom is the best money I have ever spent on software. my 40¢ James Haney
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by Sam McCandless
On Nov 20, 2007, at 9:38 AM, James Haney wrote: > My opinion of Lightroom: > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. > [big snip] Thanks very much, James, both for your opinion and for the workflow details which I snipped from this note but am saving. I hope others on the list with B&W Lightroom workflows appreciably different from yours will consider posting theirs too. I expect O'Reilly's "Managing Your Photographic Workflow with Photoshop Lightroom" by Uwe Steinmueller and Juergen Gulbins is appropriately general, but I'd also be eager to hear any opinions about it, because I want a workflow which starts by taking all images in regardless of which stream(s) they later flow through. -- Sam
Re: Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by the_des_bois
Just a quick question: Does Lightroom allows cataloging of images located on removable drives (DVD-R) ? I use I-View for that now since I don't have network drives or large external drives. $$$ is scarce... :) Many thanks Denis --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless <samcc@...> wrote:
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> > On Nov 20, 2007, at 9:38 AM, James Haney wrote: > > > My opinion of Lightroom: > > > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. > > [big snip] > > Thanks very much, James, both for your opinion and for the workflow > details which I snipped from this note but am saving. > > I hope others on the list with B&W Lightroom workflows appreciably > different from yours will consider posting theirs too. > > I expect O'Reilly's "Managing Your Photographic Workflow with > Photoshop Lightroom" by Uwe Steinmueller and Juergen Gulbins is > appropriately general, but I'd also be eager to hear any opinions > about it, because I want a workflow which starts by taking all images > in regardless of which stream(s) they later flow through. > -- > Sam >
RE: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by E Neilsen
While there are many nice things about LR, there are also some MAJOR disappointments. It may have become more stable with 1.3, but 1.2 was an unstable beast. It has limitations, and not to be over looked one, for cataloging an archive. If you have many large files that youd like to keep track of it may leave you wanting. As a processing tool it is very nice. As a data management/digital asset management tool I believe it has a long way to go. I continue to use it, though not much for B&W conversion as I use Real Grain to do much of that. Eric Neilsen Photo 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214 827-8301 http://ericneilsenphotography.com SKype ejprinter _____
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Haney Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:38 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? My opinion of Lightroom: I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. Importing: I use it to import my images from my DF cards. In one step: Copy as DNG to a main folder defined for the current year Lightroom automatically creates a folder here named however you want, but I have it make a folder named YYYY-MM-DD (Lightroom automatically determines the correct entries for these date values.) Renames in coming files using capture date and unique ID (you can define this a million different ways to suit your purposes as user-defined presets) Make a backup copy to a server directory (or another drive etc.) Apply a basic set of values as a good baseline I include copyright, date, my name, address, phone, web address, etc. Batch apply and embed meta-data and keywords I quick-tag using the subject of the shoot or anything that applies to the whole shoot At this point they are represented in the Lightroom database as a Folder Reviewing: I move through the shoot either promoting or demoting individual images. (Flags) (Keyboard command to batch-delete demoted images) Multiple, powerful compare modes help select the best images Rough edit, visualization At this point, I use one of the most powerful tools of the system, I create VIrtual Copies of the images I want to convert to black and white. A virtual copy is a set of meta-data that points to the original image source data, but filters it through a separate set of values. This Virtual Copy I open in the Develop module where I convert it to Black and White, apply sharpening, cropping, rotation, and a million other options. - This Virtual copy is not a duplicate of the source image, it is just a set of XML data that specifies how to process the file. each virtual copy takes up about 32k of space and there is no limit to how many you have. I put the Virtual Copies for the project into a Lightroom Collection. This is just a shopping basket of sorts that allows you to group a set of images (or Virtual Copies) into a manageable and meaningful set. Batch export for review Export rough edited images as jpegs (or any other format) if I need to show them to clients or to post on the web. Lightroom has some absolutely amazing Web export modules. Production I use the tools in the Lightroom Develop module to do all of my global color and tone control. High light and shadow point setting (Levels) Basic tone curves B&W conversion Capture sharpening This is done with a very critical eye. The tools in this module are basically identical to those in Adobe Camera Raw, but I think work better and are far more easily accomplished in the context of the Lightroom interface. Export to Photoshop Every tool has its purpose and its limits. Even though you can do cloning in Lightroom, it is only useful for very basic edits. I do all local, regional or pixel based editing in Photoshop. I control-click on the image in LR and choose "Edit with Photoshop" This presents me with a dialog box where I choose "Edit a Copy with Lightroom adjustments", "16 bit TIFF" and "Stack with Original" You end up with a TIFF image in the same folder as the source image. You can specify how you want LR to name files that it creates. I append "_v01" to the end of the name. The file opens as an RGB TIFF file in PS. (If your image was converted to pure black and white in LR then Red, Green, and Blue values are all identical. conversion to Greyscale will not change the tone of the images) Discussion of LR split toning is another discussion) All of your LR adjustments have been applied to this image, so it will look just like it did in LR. I created a Photoshop action that: Converts to Greyscale Creates some basic curve layers that I always use with the names I want them to have Now I am off to the races! In PS I have way more control of the image, I can softproof (not available in LR), etc. When you save the file and go back to LR you will find a new image in the folder, and collection you were in before. This is the TIFF file you created. You can re-open it from LR with "Edit with Photoshop" and choose instead "Edit Original." This will launch the TIFF version. Interestingly, you can make additional edits using Lightroom Develop tools on the B&W TIF file. This gets a little strange and complicated to understand but basically, it just works! In previous version of Lightroom I could not get QuadTone RIP to print properly. However, suddenly, with version 1.3, I use the QTR- RGB profile and I can use the truly outstanding Print module of Lightroom to print individual files, groups of images, crop on the fly without changing the image in Photoshop, without even opening the file in Photoshop. If I sound like a true believer, I am. I spend so much more of my time editing and producing images and far, far less time managing files, creating scripts, investigating various tools and re-inventing my process every 2 months to incorporate an change in technology. In my portrait work, I used to spend 2 hours getting a batch of images imported, renamed, in iView, tagged with meta-data, roughly edited to make them presentable and exported to the software I use for client presentation and editing. I used three Applescripts, a shareware program and iView Media Pro. Now this is all done in about 15 minutes, with one program. I have used all of the RGB-B&W conversion utilities out there and there is nothing that is any better than the tools in LR in my opinion. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. Besides purchasing Photoshop, Lightroom is the best money I have ever spent on software. my 40¢ James Haney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Digital BW] Re: Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by James Haney
I still think that for indexing off-line or read-only archives you might be better off using something like iView. I really haven't investigated it for what you are referring to. I am planning on experimenting over the Christmas holiday with migrating all of my 2007 work to archives. I may just embed all of the metadata to my 2007 files, move them to storage locations then index them in iView. I have a feeling that it will be a better mechanism for that type of content. James On Nov 20, 2007, at 3:42 PM, the_des_bois wrote: > Just a quick question: > > Does Lightroom allows cataloging of images located on removable drives > (DVD-R) ? > > I use I-View for that now since I don't have network drives or large > external drives. > > $$$ is scarce... :) > > Many thanks > > Denis > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless > <samcc@...> wrote: > > > > On Nov 20, 2007, at 9:38 AM, James Haney wrote: > > > > > My opinion of Lightroom: > > > > > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. > > > [big snip] > > > > Thanks very much, James, both for your opinion and for the workflow > > details which I snipped from this note but am saving. > > > > I hope others on the list with B&W Lightroom workflows appreciably > > different from yours will consider posting theirs too. > > > > I expect O'Reilly's "Managing Your Photographic Workflow with > > Photoshop Lightroom" by Uwe Steinmueller and Juergen Gulbins is > > appropriately general, but I'd also be eager to hear any opinions > > about it, because I want a workflow which starts by taking all > images > > in regardless of which stream(s) they later flow through. > > -- > > Sam > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by James Haney
That is interesting, I found 1.2 to be very stable until I upgraded to Leopard on the Mac. Then it was a real problem until 1.3 came out. I know what you mean about pure digital asset management. There is a lot of overhead in Lightroom when you have many thousands of images in the catalog. I am sure that with the newly released LR export software development kit someone will quickly develop a module to transfer images from Lightroom directly into iView or other DAM systems. I looked through the SDK today. It would be pretty straightforward to do, but require more programming knowledge and time than I currently have. James On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:04 PM, E Neilsen wrote: > ts. It may have become more stable with 1.3, but 1.2 was an > unstable beast. It has lim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Digital BW] Re: Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by Paul Grant
Yes it does.......however the catalog/xmp data will have to reside on your system. Paul On 11/20/07 1:42 PM, "the_des_bois" <thedesbois@videotron.ca> wrote: > > > > > Just a quick question: > > Does Lightroom allows cataloging of images located on removable drives > (DVD-R) ? > > I use I-View for that now since I don't have network drives or large > external drives. > > $$$ is scarce... :) > > Many thanks > > Denis > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Sam McCandless > <samcc@...> wrote: >> > >> > On Nov 20, 2007, at 9:38 AM, James Haney wrote: >> > >>> > > My opinion of Lightroom: >>> > > >>> > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. >>> > > [big snip] >> > >> > Thanks very much, James, both for your opinion and for the workflow >> > details which I snipped from this note but am saving. >> > >> > I hope others on the list with B&W Lightroom workflows appreciably >> > different from yours will consider posting theirs too. >> > >> > I expect O'Reilly's "Managing Your Photographic Workflow with >> > Photoshop Lightroom" by Uwe Steinmueller and Juergen Gulbins is >> > appropriately general, but I'd also be eager to hear any opinions >> > about it, because I want a workflow which starts by taking all images >> > in regardless of which stream(s) they later flow through. >> > -- >> > Sam >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-20 by Paul Grant
Eric, I believe from 1.1 on Cataloging is an option. I use it all the time on various portable drives. Paul On 11/20/07 2:04 PM, "E Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@...> wrote: > > > > > While there are many nice things about LR, there are also some MAJOR > disappointments. It may have become more stable with 1.3, but 1.2 was an > unstable beast. It has limitations, and not to be over looked one, for > cataloging an archive. If you have many large files that you¹d like to keep > track of it may leave you wanting. As a processing tool it is very nice. As > a data management/digital asset management tool I believe it has a long way > to go. I continue to use it, though not much for B&W conversion as I use > Real Grain to do much of that. > > Eric Neilsen Photo > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > > Dallas, TX 75226 > > 214 827-8301 > > http://ericneilsenphotography.com > > SKype ejprinter > > _____ > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of James > Haney > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:38 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? > > My opinion of Lightroom: > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. > > Importing: > I use it to import my images from my DF cards. > In one step: > Copy as DNG to a main folder defined for the current year > Lightroom automatically creates a folder here named however you > want, but I have it make a folder named YYYY-MM-DD > (Lightroom automatically determines the correct entries for these > date values.) > Renames in coming files using capture date and unique ID > (you can define this a million different ways to suit your > purposes as user-defined presets) > Make a backup copy to a server directory (or another drive etc.) > Apply a basic set of values as a good baseline > I include copyright, date, my name, address, phone, web address, etc. > Batch apply and embed meta-data and keywords > I quick-tag using the subject of the shoot or anything that > applies to the whole shoot > At this point they are represented in the Lightroom database as a > Folder > > Reviewing: > I move through the shoot either promoting or demoting individual > images. (Flags) > (Keyboard command to batch-delete demoted images) > Multiple, powerful compare modes help select the best images > > Rough edit, visualization > At this point, I use one of the most powerful tools of the system, I > create VIrtual Copies of the images I want to convert to black and > white. > A virtual copy is a set of meta-data that points to the original > image source data, but filters it through a separate set of values. > This Virtual Copy I open in the Develop module where I convert it > to Black and White, apply sharpening, cropping, rotation, and a > million other options. - This Virtual copy is not a duplicate of the > source image, it is just a set of XML data that specifies how to > process the file. each virtual copy takes up about 32k of space and > there is no limit to how many you have. > > I put the Virtual Copies for the project into a Lightroom Collection. > This is just a shopping basket of sorts that allows you to group a > set of images (or Virtual Copies) into a manageable and meaningful set. > > Batch export for review > Export rough edited images as jpegs (or any other format) if I need > to show them to clients or to post on the web. Lightroom has some > absolutely amazing Web export modules. > > Production > I use the tools in the Lightroom Develop module to do all of my > global color and tone control. > High light and shadow point setting (Levels) > Basic tone curves > B&W conversion > Capture sharpening > This is done with a very critical eye. The tools in this module are > basically identical to those in Adobe Camera Raw, but I think work > better and are far more easily accomplished in the context of the > Lightroom interface. > > Export to Photoshop > Every tool has its purpose and its limits. > Even though you can do cloning in Lightroom, it is only useful for > very basic edits. > I do all local, regional or pixel based editing in Photoshop. > > I control-click on the image in LR and choose "Edit with Photoshop" > This presents me with a dialog box where I choose "Edit a Copy with > Lightroom adjustments", "16 bit TIFF" and "Stack with Original" > You end up with a TIFF image in the same folder as the source > image. You can specify how you want LR to name files that it creates. > I append "_v01" to the end of the name. > The file opens as an RGB TIFF file in PS. (If your image was > converted to pure black and white in LR then Red, Green, and Blue > values are all identical. conversion to Greyscale will not change the > tone of the images) Discussion of LR split toning is another discussion) > All of your LR adjustments have been applied to this image, so it > will look just like it did in LR. > I created a Photoshop action that: > Converts to Greyscale > Creates some basic curve layers that I always use with the names I > want them to have > Now I am off to the races! > > In PS I have way more control of the image, I can softproof (not > available in LR), etc. > > When you save the file and go back to LR you will find a new image in > the folder, and collection you were in before. This is the TIFF file > you created. > > You can re-open it from LR with "Edit with Photoshop" and choose > instead "Edit Original." This will launch the TIFF version. > > Interestingly, you can make additional edits using Lightroom Develop > tools on the B&W TIF file. This gets a little strange and complicated > to understand but basically, it just works! > > In previous version of Lightroom I could not get QuadTone RIP to > print properly. However, suddenly, with version 1.3, I use the QTR- > RGB profile and I can use the truly outstanding Print module of > Lightroom to print individual files, groups of images, crop on the > fly without changing the image in Photoshop, without even opening the > file in Photoshop. > > If I sound like a true believer, I am. > > I spend so much more of my time editing and producing images and far, > far less time managing files, creating scripts, investigating various > tools and re-inventing my process every 2 months to incorporate an > change in technology. > > In my portrait work, I used to spend 2 hours getting a batch of > images imported, renamed, in iView, tagged with meta-data, roughly > edited to make them presentable and exported to the software I use > for client presentation and editing. I used three Applescripts, a > shareware program and iView Media Pro. Now this is all done in about > 15 minutes, with one program. > > I have used all of the RGB-B&W conversion utilities out there and > there is nothing that is any better than the tools in LR in my > opinion. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. > > Besides purchasing Photoshop, Lightroom is the best money I have ever > spent on software. > > my 40¢ > > James Haney > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-21 by Eric Neilsen
James, I killed a day last week by attending a PDN on the Road here in Dallas. Michael Britt of Image Mechanics got an eye full from me, a his recommendation was Extensis Portfolio. He is one of Adobe's field users and he uses it for high volume processing and downloads the whole catalog to an external HDF. Or more accurately, that where it always was. He does not use it for long term archiving. This was one of the things I thought it was meant to be when I bought the damn thing. Oh Well, perhaps before I die I'll get a handle on the 10s of thousands of images waiting to be seen. : ( Eric Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen.home.att.net http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype ejprinter _____
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Haney Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:15 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? That is interesting, I found 1.2 to be very stable until I upgraded to Leopard on the Mac. Then it was a real problem until 1.3 came out. I know what you mean about pure digital asset management. There is a lot of overhead in Lightroom when you have many thousands of images in the catalog. I am sure that with the newly released LR export software development kit someone will quickly develop a module to transfer images from Lightroom directly into iView or other DAM systems. I looked through the SDK today. It would be pretty straightforward to do, but require more programming knowledge and time than I currently have. James On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:04 PM, E Neilsen wrote: > ts. It may have become more stable with 1.3, but 1.2 was an > unstable beast. It has lim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-21 by wri5p
For those interested in what was "under the hat" fixing Lightroom developing (and in memory of Bruce Fraser), see this interesting last year "home discussion" between Photoshop founder Thomas Knoll, major present Adobe engineers Mark Hamburg and Zalman Stern and "color guru" Bruce Fraser: http://photoshopnews.com/2006/07/07/lightroom-podcast-episode-8-posted/ Rgds, Marco Maero Euresis Srl
Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-21 by Petr Chlumsky
Hi! >How's Lightroom working out for black/white conversion for those using it? Even I have no detailed idea how LR is good in BW conversion I try to add another aspect to this discussion. I have made test for several RAW converter this month and I have found absolute winner for me DXO. Excelent raw coneversion, superb film emulation with BW films support like trix xp2 and others. No cataloging there. At least try it I would recommend. PCHe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-21 by Eric Neilsen
Paul, I didnt say that it cant do it. What I said was that it does a horrible job of doing it. Sure it works, on hundreds of images, even thousands of images. But as the data base increases in size it fails. It cant handle moving files around very well, although it shows that it can allow for that. Please dont confuse what it says or allows with doing well. It internally changed the file names of a bunch of my NEF files when I used it to move them from point A to point B from within LR. No it didnt erase them, but I did need to go back remove the folders from LR and re import them to fix the problem. This took hours and hours to fix. It also shook my confidence in the programs ability to track files. Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen.home.att.net http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype ejprinter _____
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grant Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:37 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? Eric, I believe from 1.1 on Cataloging is an option. I use it all the time on various portable drives. Paul On 11/20/07 2:04 PM, "E Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@worldnet <mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net> wrote: > > > > > While there are many nice things about LR, there are also some MAJOR > disappointments. It may have become more stable with 1.3, but 1.2 was an > unstable beast. It has limitations, and not to be over looked one, for > cataloging an archive. If you have many large files that you¹d like to keep > track of it may leave you wanting. As a processing tool it is very nice. As > a data management/digital asset management tool I believe it has a long way > to go. I continue to use it, though not much for B&W conversion as I use > Real Grain to do much of that. > > Eric Neilsen Photo > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > > Dallas, TX 75226 > > 214 827-8301 > > http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com > > SKype ejprinter > > _____ > > From: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of James > Haney > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:38 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? > > My opinion of Lightroom: > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. > > Importing: > I use it to import my images from my DF cards. > In one step: > Copy as DNG to a main folder defined for the current year > Lightroom automatically creates a folder here named however you > want, but I have it make a folder named YYYY-MM-DD > (Lightroom automatically determines the correct entries for these > date values.) > Renames in coming files using capture date and unique ID > (you can define this a million different ways to suit your > purposes as user-defined presets) > Make a backup copy to a server directory (or another drive etc.) > Apply a basic set of values as a good baseline > I include copyright, date, my name, address, phone, web address, etc. > Batch apply and embed meta-data and keywords > I quick-tag using the subject of the shoot or anything that > applies to the whole shoot > At this point they are represented in the Lightroom database as a > Folder > > Reviewing: > I move through the shoot either promoting or demoting individual > images. (Flags) > (Keyboard command to batch-delete demoted images) > Multiple, powerful compare modes help select the best images > > Rough edit, visualization > At this point, I use one of the most powerful tools of the system, I > create VIrtual Copies of the images I want to convert to black and > white. > A virtual copy is a set of meta-data that points to the original > image source data, but filters it through a separate set of values. > This Virtual Copy I open in the Develop module where I convert it > to Black and White, apply sharpening, cropping, rotation, and a > million other options. - This Virtual copy is not a duplicate of the > source image, it is just a set of XML data that specifies how to > process the file. each virtual copy takes up about 32k of space and > there is no limit to how many you have. > > I put the Virtual Copies for the project into a Lightroom Collection. > This is just a shopping basket of sorts that allows you to group a > set of images (or Virtual Copies) into a manageable and meaningful set. > > Batch export for review > Export rough edited images as jpegs (or any other format) if I need > to show them to clients or to post on the web. Lightroom has some > absolutely amazing Web export modules. > > Production > I use the tools in the Lightroom Develop module to do all of my > global color and tone control. > High light and shadow point setting (Levels) > Basic tone curves > B&W conversion > Capture sharpening > This is done with a very critical eye. The tools in this module are > basically identical to those in Adobe Camera Raw, but I think work > better and are far more easily accomplished in the context of the > Lightroom interface. > > Export to Photoshop > Every tool has its purpose and its limits. > Even though you can do cloning in Lightroom, it is only useful for > very basic edits. > I do all local, regional or pixel based editing in Photoshop. > > I control-click on the image in LR and choose "Edit with Photoshop" > This presents me with a dialog box where I choose "Edit a Copy with > Lightroom adjustments", "16 bit TIFF" and "Stack with Original" > You end up with a TIFF image in the same folder as the source > image. You can specify how you want LR to name files that it creates. > I append "_v01" to the end of the name. > The file opens as an RGB TIFF file in PS. (If your image was > converted to pure black and white in LR then Red, Green, and Blue > values are all identical. conversion to Greyscale will not change the > tone of the images) Discussion of LR split toning is another discussion) > All of your LR adjustments have been applied to this image, so it > will look just like it did in LR. > I created a Photoshop action that: > Converts to Greyscale > Creates some basic curve layers that I always use with the names I > want them to have > Now I am off to the races! > > In PS I have way more control of the image, I can softproof (not > available in LR), etc. > > When you save the file and go back to LR you will find a new image in > the folder, and collection you were in before. This is the TIFF file > you created. > > You can re-open it from LR with "Edit with Photoshop" and choose > instead "Edit Original." This will launch the TIFF version. > > Interestingly, you can make additional edits using Lightroom Develop > tools on the B&W TIF file. This gets a little strange and complicated > to understand but basically, it just works! > > In previous version of Lightroom I could not get QuadTone RIP to > print properly. However, suddenly, with version 1.3, I use the QTR- > RGB profile and I can use the truly outstanding Print module of > Lightroom to print individual files, groups of images, crop on the > fly without changing the image in Photoshop, without even opening the > file in Photoshop. > > If I sound like a true believer, I am. > > I spend so much more of my time editing and producing images and far, > far less time managing files, creating scripts, investigating various > tools and re-inventing my process every 2 months to incorporate an > change in technology. > > In my portrait work, I used to spend 2 hours getting a batch of > images imported, renamed, in iView, tagged with meta-data, roughly > edited to make them presentable and exported to the software I use > for client presentation and editing. I used three Applescripts, a > shareware program and iView Media Pro. Now this is all done in about > 15 minutes, with one program. > > I have used all of the RGB-B&W conversion utilities out there and > there is nothing that is any better than the tools in LR in my > opinion. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. > > Besides purchasing Photoshop, Lightroom is the best money I have ever > spent on software. > > my 40¢ > > James Haney > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-21 by Eric Neilsen
It did perform well in my processing as well. I had already plunked down my bucks on LR however and just don't have the extra money for yet another program. This is also why I have gone out and got Extensis Portfolio for cataloging my archive. Eric Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen.home.att.net http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype ejprinter _____
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Petr Chlumsky Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:44 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? Hi! >How's Lightroom working out for black/white conversion for those using it? Even I have no detailed idea how LR is good in BW conversion I try to add another aspect to this discussion. I have made test for several RAW converter this month and I have found absolute winner for me DXO. Excelent raw coneversion, superb film emulation with BW films support like trix xp2 and others. No cataloging there. At least try it I would recommend. PCHe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom?
2007-11-21 by Paul Grant
Eric, I think I understand what your saying. I think what I have found is to use More Catalogs and for me that made moving stuff around much easier. I would agree that if you tried to put everything in one Lightroom Catalog that would be very cumbersome. Paul
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-----Original Message----- From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Neilsen Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:15 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? Paul, I didnt say that it cant do it. What I said was that it does a horrible job of doing it. Sure it works, on hundreds of images, even thousands of images. But as the data base increases in size it fails. It cant handle moving files around very well, although it shows that it can allow for that. Please dont confuse what it says or allows with doing well. It internally changed the file names of a bunch of my NEF files when I used it to move them from point A to point B from within LR. No it didnt erase them, but I did need to go back remove the folders from LR and re import them to fix the problem. This took hours and hours to fix. It also shook my confidence in the programs ability to track files. Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen. <http://e.neilsen.home.att.net> home.att.net http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com Skype ejprinter _____ From: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grant Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:37 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? Eric, I believe from 1.1 on Cataloging is an option. I use it all the time on various portable drives. Paul On 11/20/07 2:04 PM, "E Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@worldnet <mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net> wrote: > > > > > While there are many nice things about LR, there are also some MAJOR > disappointments. It may have become more stable with 1.3, but 1.2 was an > unstable beast. It has limitations, and not to be over looked one, for > cataloging an archive. If you have many large files that you¹d like to keep > track of it may leave you wanting. As a processing tool it is very nice. As > a data management/digital asset management tool I believe it has a long way > to go. I continue to use it, though not much for B&W conversion as I use > Real Grain to do much of that. > > Eric Neilsen Photo > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > > Dallas, TX 75226 > > 214 827-8301 > > http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com> hotography.com > > SKype ejprinter > > _____ > > From: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of James > Haney > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:38 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Adobe Lightroom? > > My opinion of Lightroom: > > I have totally changed my workflow with Lightroom at the center. > > Importing: > I use it to import my images from my DF cards. > In one step: > Copy as DNG to a main folder defined for the current year > Lightroom automatically creates a folder here named however you > want, but I have it make a folder named YYYY-MM-DD > (Lightroom automatically determines the correct entries for these > date values.) > Renames in coming files using capture date and unique ID > (you can define this a million different ways to suit your > purposes as user-defined presets) > Make a backup copy to a server directory (or another drive etc.) > Apply a basic set of values as a good baseline > I include copyright, date, my name, address, phone, web address, etc. > Batch apply and embed meta-data and keywords > I quick-tag using the subject of the shoot or anything that > applies to the whole shoot > At this point they are represented in the Lightroom database as a > Folder > > Reviewing: > I move through the shoot either promoting or demoting individual > images. (Flags) > (Keyboard command to batch-delete demoted images) > Multiple, powerful compare modes help select the best images > > Rough edit, visualization > At this point, I use one of the most powerful tools of the system, I > create VIrtual Copies of the images I want to convert to black and > white. > A virtual copy is a set of meta-data that points to the original > image source data, but filters it through a separate set of values. > This Virtual Copy I open in the Develop module where I convert it > to Black and White, apply sharpening, cropping, rotation, and a > million other options. - This Virtual copy is not a duplicate of the > source image, it is just a set of XML data that specifies how to > process the file. each virtual copy takes up about 32k of space and > there is no limit to how many you have. > > I put the Virtual Copies for the project into a Lightroom Collection. > This is just a shopping basket of sorts that allows you to group a > set of images (or Virtual Copies) into a manageable and meaningful set. > > Batch export for review > Export rough edited images as jpegs (or any other format) if I need > to show them to clients or to post on the web. Lightroom has some > absolutely amazing Web export modules. > > Production > I use the tools in the Lightroom Develop module to do all of my > global color and tone control. > High light and shadow point setting (Levels) > Basic tone curves > B&W conversion > Capture sharpening > This is done with a very critical eye. The tools in this module are > basically identical to those in Adobe Camera Raw, but I think work > better and are far more easily accomplished in the context of the > Lightroom interface. > > Export to Photoshop > Every tool has its purpose and its limits. > Even though you can do cloning in Lightroom, it is only useful for > very basic edits. > I do all local, regional or pixel based editing in Photoshop. > > I control-click on the image in LR and choose "Edit with Photoshop" > This presents me with a dialog box where I choose "Edit a Copy with > Lightroom adjustments", "16 bit TIFF" and "Stack with Original" > You end up with a TIFF image in the same folder as the source > image. You can specify how you want LR to name files that it creates. > I append "_v01" to the end of the name. > The file opens as an RGB TIFF file in PS. (If your image was > converted to pure black and white in LR then Red, Green, and Blue > values are all identical. conversion to Greyscale will not change the > tone of the images) Discussion of LR split toning is another discussion) > All of your LR adjustments have been applied to this image, so it > will look just like it did in LR. > I created a Photoshop action that: > Converts to Greyscale > Creates some basic curve layers that I always use with the names I > want them to have > Now I am off to the races! > > In PS I have way more control of the image, I can softproof (not > available in LR), etc. > > When you save the file and go back to LR you will find a new image in > the folder, and collection you were in before. This is the TIFF file > you created. > > You can re-open it from LR with "Edit with Photoshop" and choose > instead "Edit Original." This will launch the TIFF version. > > Interestingly, you can make additional edits using Lightroom Develop > tools on the B&W TIF file. This gets a little strange and complicated > to understand but basically, it just works! > > In previous version of Lightroom I could not get QuadTone RIP to > print properly. However, suddenly, with version 1.3, I use the QTR- > RGB profile and I can use the truly outstanding Print module of > Lightroom to print individual files, groups of images, crop on the > fly without changing the image in Photoshop, without even opening the > file in Photoshop. > > If I sound like a true believer, I am. > > I spend so much more of my time editing and producing images and far, > far less time managing files, creating scripts, investigating various > tools and re-inventing my process every 2 months to incorporate an > change in technology. > > In my portrait work, I used to spend 2 hours getting a batch of > images imported, renamed, in iView, tagged with meta-data, roughly > edited to make them presentable and exported to the software I use > for client presentation and editing. I used three Applescripts, a > shareware program and iView Media Pro. Now this is all done in about > 15 minutes, with one program. > > I have used all of the RGB-B&W conversion utilities out there and > there is nothing that is any better than the tools in LR in my > opinion. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. > > Besides purchasing Photoshop, Lightroom is the best money I have ever > spent on software. > > my 40¢ > > James Haney > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]