Digital BW, The Print

I'm trying to print transparencies, but they always end up 
inconsistent, often with lines or bands in them. I print the same 
images on paper and don't have this problem. 

I'm guessing it may be how the printer "grabs" the sheets, and maybe 
with the transparency film there is some wiggle, so printing is 
inconsistent. ??? 

I've seen some transparency films that come with a white paper strip 
down the side. I wonder if this is to help the printer grab onto the 
film? 

Any suggestions for how to deal with this? And how do people make 
digital transparencies with this problem?  

Best, David.

David, Some of the Epson printers will use the white strip to "see" the edge
of the transparency. Most problems that I have seen with it have been in NOT
using 2880, or RPM, or what ever setting gives you the highest quality
output. Drying time will also need to be looked at as possible fixes for
banding issues with that material. It always help to say what printer and
setting you are using when looking for help with those issues. 

 

EJ

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:15 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] problems printing on transparency film on my Epson
R2400

 

I'm trying to print transparencies, but they always end up 
inconsistent, often with lines or bands in them. I print the same 
images on paper and don't have this problem. 

I'm guessing it may be how the printer "grabs" the sheets, and maybe 
with the transparency film there is some wiggle, so printing is 
inconsistent. ??? 

I've seen some transparency films that come with a white paper strip 
down the side. I wonder if this is to help the printer grab onto the 
film? 

Any suggestions for how to deal with this? And how do people make 
digital transparencies with this problem? 

Best, David. 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

1.   What printer settings are you using?
2.   What film are you printing on?
3.   Are you using photo black and original Epson inks?
4.   Have you run a test to confirm that all the jets are firing?
5.   Have you run the auto-allignment for the head on the transparency film?
6.   Are you printing at the highest resolution with hi-speed or 
bi-directional turned off?

Sorry for all the questions.

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

Precision Digital Negatives - The System
PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

In a message dated 1/23/08 4:15:37 PM, dkfreed@... writes:


> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to print transparencies, but they always end up
> inconsistent, often with lines or bands in them. I print the same
> images on paper and don't have this problem.
> 
> I'm guessing it may be how the printer "grabs" the sheets, and maybe
> with the transparency film there is some wiggle, so printing is
> inconsistent. ???
> 
> I've seen some transparency films that come with a white paper strip
> down the side. I wonder if this is to help the printer grab onto the
> film?
> 
> Any suggestions for how to deal with this? And how do people make
> digital transparencies with this problem?
> 
> Best, David.
> 
> 
> 












**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In response to your questions: 

1. I'm trying to create digital positive transparencies for exposing 
photopolymer etching plates. To do this, I need the 
random "grain"/pattern similar to an aquatint screen or bitmap image. 
To get this I've been printing grayscale images using Quadtone RIP, 
with matte black only ink, printing at 720 DPI, uni-directional.

I've also tried printing using the R2400 Advanced B/W mode, which 
doesn' not give me options for resolution or ink cartridges, but I've 
been having the same banding issues in this mode as well. 

2. I'm printing on InkPress and Grafix transparency film for inkjets. 
(neither has white strip down the side) 

3. I'm using the matte black ink. I thought photo black would be 
darker or more opaque, but I've found that not to be true. I'm 
satisfied with opacity aspect of my prints. 

4-5. I've cleaned and aligned the heads a number of times, though I'm 
usually using matte paper to do this, not the transparency film.   

6. As I noted above, when using Quadtone RIP, I'm printing at 720 DPI 
output with uni-directional printing, so I can get the dot-grain 
pattern I need. I might try at a higher resolution (1440 DPI), but as 
I said, I'm seeing the same problems even in advanced B/W printing, 
which is at high resolution output. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ender100@... 
wrote:
>
> David,
> 
> 1.   What printer settings are you using?
> 2.   What film are you printing on?
> 3.   Are you using photo black and original Epson inks?
> 4.   Have you run a test to confirm that all the jets are firing?
> 5.   Have you run the auto-allignment for the head on the 
transparency film?
> 6.   Are you printing at the highest resolution with hi-speed or 
> bi-directional turned off?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions.
> 
> Best Wishes, Mark Nelson
> Precision Digital Negatives - The System
> PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups, www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
> 
> In a message dated 1/23/08 4:15:37 PM, dkfreed@... writes:
> 
> I'm trying to print transparencies, but they always end up 
inconsistent, often with lines or bands in them. I print the same 
images on paper and don't have this problem.
 
> I'm guessing it may be how the printer "grabs" the sheets, and 
maybe with the transparency film there is some wiggle, so printing is 
inconsistent. ???
 
> I've seen some transparency films that come with a white paper 
strip down the side. I wonder if this is to help the printer grab 
onto the film?
 
> Any suggestions for how to deal with this? And how do people make 
digital transparencies with this problem?

David,

I have worked with a couple of people with photopolymer plates for 
photogravure—a lot of fun.   I am beginning right now to calibrate the KM-73 plate from 
Boxcar Press.   I'm using the Dan Weldon aquatint screen first—then another 
one later that is finer.   (Double Exposure Method)   Amazingly long exposure 
scale in my firsts tests with these plates.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are making your own aquatint screen. 
  You will probably want to go pretty high resolution in bitmap mode. Or 
perhaps you are doing bitmapped positives and doing single exposure?

With many films, the matte black does not fare too well, but it sounds like 
you have a combination that works.

Have you tried the Epson driver?   Do you get banding with it also?

Have you been getting banding on other papers like luster and 

Have you tried Pictorico OHP film?

You may get better results with a head alignment on the film rather than the 
matte papers.

Sorry, just more questions and not too many answers.

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

Precision Digital Negatives - The System
PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

In a message dated 1/23/08 5:46:18 PM, dkfreed@... writes:


> 
> 
> 
> In response to your questions:
> 
> 1. I'm trying to create digital positive transparencies for exposing
> photopolymer etching plates. To do this, I need the
> random "grain"/pattern similar to an aquatint screen or bitmap image.
> To get this I've been printing grayscale images using Quadtone RIP,
> with matte black only ink, printing at 720 DPI, uni-directional.
> 
> I've also tried printing using the R2400 Advanced B/W mode, which
> doesn' not give me options for resolution or ink cartridges, but I've
> been having the same banding issues in this mode as well.
> 
> 2. I'm printing on InkPress and Grafix transparency film for inkjets.
> (neither has white strip down the side)
> 
> 3. I'm using the matte black ink. I thought photo black would be
> darker or more opaque, but I've found that not to be true. I'm
> satisfied with opacity aspect of my prints.
> 
> 4-5. I've cleaned and aligned the heads a number of times, though I'm
> usually using matte paper to do this, not the transparency film.
> 
> 6. As I noted above, when using Quadtone RIP, I'm printing at 720 DPI
> output with uni-directional printing, so I can get the dot-grain
> pattern I need. I might try at a higher resolution (1440 DPI), but as
> I said, I'm seeing the same problems even in advanced B/W printing,
> which is at high resolution output.
> 
> 
> 












**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David;

>> I need the 
> random "grain"/pattern similar to an aquatint screen or bitmap 
image. 
> To get this I've been printing grayscale images using Quadtone RIP, 
> with matte black only ink, printing at 720 DPI, uni-directional.

Banding on transp. film is very common, more the rule than the 
exception. I think it has to do with decreased dot-gain. If you 
need 'grain', introduce it in the image with a grain filter, or 
PS's 'add noise' function, but print the neg at the highest res the 
printer will allow, (2880 and 'finest detail)and as many ink channels 
as you can muster.
> 
> I've also tried printing using the R2400 Advanced B/W mode, which 
> doesn' not give me options for resolution or ink cartridges, but 
I've 
> been having the same banding issues in this mode as well. 

In the long run I think you'll do better with PK, if only because it 
will stay on the film long enough to do the job? If you need more 
density, try the 'spectral density' approach, that is use the plate's 
lack of sensetivity to red to build the density to the level you 
need. I'm thinking QTR with two blended curves might give the best 
combination of number of channels firing, and density. One curve 
would be only the blacks: PK, LK, and LLK. The second curve would be 
M and LM, with perhaps yellow as a toner to produce red,if you really 
need heavy density, as for platinum printing. The two could be 
blended to suit. This would give you 5 or 6 channels firing, and 
might just do the trick

 
Hope some of this helps

Steve Karafyllakis

After fooling with this to the point of madness, I finally tried a
sheet of film with a white strip on the end (from a friend, Highland
or 3M brand I think). The image printed fine, which leads me to the
conclusion that my problem has been how the printer handles this film
(and not problems with the printer nozzles or head alignment). 

I'm assuming that the strip which goes in first allows the printer to
better grab the film, and allows it to print without banding. 

Too bad that I've bought a package each of 8.5x11 and 11x17
transparency film without the strip, but maybe I can try gluing one on
to each sheet. 

David. 


--- In DigitalBla
ckandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Karafyllakis"
<stevekphoto@...> wrote:

>
> David;
> 
> >> I need the 
> > random "grain"/pattern similar to an aquatint screen or bitmap 
> image. 
> > To get this I've been printing grayscale images using Quadtone RIP, 
> > with matte black only ink, printing at 720 DPI, uni-directional.
> 
> Banding on transp. film is very common, more the rule than the 
> exception. I think it has to do with decreased dot-gain. If you 
> need 'grain', introduce it in the image with a grain filter, or 
> PS's 'add noise' function, but print the neg at the highest res the 
> printer will allow, (2880 and 'finest detail)and as many ink channels 
> as you can muster.
> > 
> > I've also tried printing using the R2400 Advanced B/W mode, which 
> > doesn' not give me options for resolution or ink cartridges, but 
> I've 
> > been having the same banding issues in this mode as well. 
> 
> In the long run I think you'll do better with PK, if only because it 
> will stay on the film long enough to do the job? If you need more 
> density, try the 'spectral density' approach, that is use the plate's 
> lack of sensetivity to red to build the density to the level you 
> need. I'm thinking QTR with two blended curves might give the best 
> combination of number of channels firing, and density. One curve 
> would be only the blacks: PK, LK, and LLK. The second curve would be 
> M and LM, with perhaps yellow as a toner to produce red,if you really 
> need heavy density, as for platinum printing. The two could be 
> blended to suit. This would give you 5 or 6 channels firing, and 
> might just do the trick
> 
>  
> Hope some of this helps
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
>

Thanks Mark. See my SUCCESS message. The problem was how the film was
being handled by the printer. When I used a film with a white strip on
the end, it printed fine. 

I'm using the single exposure method by the way, trying to include the
"aquatint" right in with the image, as I learned from Keith Howard.
I'm  using about a 38 second exposure, followed by 9 minute
development. This is with ImagOn film on P.E.T.G. plastic plates. 

I have an aquatint screen so I might try the two exposure method at
some point. What times are you using for two exposure method? In
Keith's workshop we did about 40 seconds each, but in the studio where
I work, people are doing really long exposures with the aquatint
screen, like two or three minutes I think, but they're also using a
different developer strength and time.

Best, David.  

 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ender100@... wrote:
>
> David,
> 
> I have worked with a couple of people with photopolymer plates for 
> photogravureâ€"a lot of fun.   I am beginning right now to calibrate
the KM-73 plate from 
> Boxcar Press.   I'm using the Dan Weldon aquatint screen
firstâ€"then another 
> one later that is finer.   (Double Exposure Method)   Amazingly long
exposure 
> scale in my firsts tests with these plates.
> 
> If I am understanding you correctly, you are making your own
aquatint screen. 
>   You will probably want to go pretty high resolution in bitmap
mode. Or 
> perhaps you are doing bitmapped positives and doing single exposure?
> 
> With many films, the matte black does not fare too well, but it
sounds like 
> you have a combination that works.
> 
> Have you tried the Epson driver?   Do you get banding with it also?
> 
> Have you been getting banding on other papers like luster and 
> 
> Have you tried Pictorico OHP film?
> 
> You may get better results with a head alignment on the film rather
than the 

> matte papers.
> 
> Sorry, just more questions and not too many answers.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Mark Nelson
> 
> Precision Digital Negatives - The System
> PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David" 
<dkfreed@...> wrote:
>
> After fooling with this to the point of madness, I finally tried a
> sheet of film with a white strip on the end 

I'm pretty sure the white strip at the end is so that the 
electronic "eye" in the printer's head can see that you really have 
loaded some medium falls under the category of RTM. I know this is 
specifically listed in in the user manual for printers like the 9000, 
9500, 7600, 9600, etc.

Greg, I believe you are correct. My Epson R2400 was recognized the 
transparency film even without the strip, but the print with the strip 
came out much better, without banding. My educated guess is that--at 
least on this printer--the strip lets the printer get a better grip on 
the film and there's no "wiggle room" that was causing the banding. 

Best, David 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" 
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David" 
> <dkfreed@> wrote:
> >
> > After fooling with this to the point of madness, I finally tried a
> > sheet of film with a white strip on the end 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the white strip at the end is so that the 
> electronic "eye" in the printer's head can see that you really have 
> loaded some medium falls under the category of RTM. I know this is 
> specifically listed in in the user manual for printers like the 9000, 
> 9500, 7600, 9600, etc.
>

My 9500 refuses to accept transparent media without a backing sheet, or 
turning the sensors off. When the backing running out, the light stops 
shining back to the sensor and it thinks the paper is out. Same happens 
when the back side is printed dark (which happens when you are doing 
things like really rough proffs or ink purges, etc.). The reason for 
the banding is that the printer may do some sort of media feed check 
when it loads a sheet. If you watch it, it will pull the sheet past the 
head, then back it up a little to find the edge, then start printing. 
It's possible (though kind of unlikely) that they count the rotations 
of the paper feed motor to determin how fast the paper travels. Also 
doesn't the 2400 check the head height for every different paper? If it 
does than it would need to see the paper to do this adjustment.