Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

Has anyone tried this paper?  I'm assuming it's matte paper, although
I'm not certain.  I've looked at the spec sheet and all it says is
"genuine art paper".  I suppose "art paper" means matte and either
"fiber" or "glossy" would be in there somewhere if it were that. 
Anyway, I'm interested to hear what anyone has to say about it. 


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

Hello Clayton,

I've tried Bamboo 290. It is a true matte paper. It feels very good in
the hand and I had the feeling it was more of a 350gsm weight, similar
to Museum Etching. Very stiff like most products from Hahn...

I printed a couple of test images using 3MK Eboni with QTR and the
HPR308 curve. To my untrained eye the dMax looks almost as close to
VFA and is superior to Museum Etching. Paper color is very warm, again
similar to Museum Etching. I was impressed with the overall tonal
range and sharpness. The texture is between a smooth hot press and a VFA.

I'd say it is worth a try if you like the warm look. Shades of Paper
was selling sample boxes of 10 sheets last time I tcheked.

Denis

> 
> Has anyone tried this paper?  I'm assuming it's matte paper, although
> I'm not certain.  I've looked at the spec sheet and all it says is
> "genuine art paper".  I suppose "art paper" means matte and either
> "fiber" or "glossy" would be in there somewhere if it were that. 
> Anyway, I'm interested to hear what anyone has to say about it. 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton

>

I've also tried this paper and was very impressed with it, both feel 
and tonal range.  It has a great look.  Sorry, no measurements . . .  
but its on my list of favorites.

Mitch

On May 8, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Has anyone tried this paper?  I'm assuming it's matte paper, although
> I'm not certain.  I've looked at the spec sheet and all it says is
> "genuine art paper".  I suppose "art paper" means matte and either
> "fiber" or "glossy" would be in there somewhere if it were that.
> Anyway, I'm interested to hear what anyone has to say about it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hello Denis,

Thanks for the report, it sounds good.  I think I'll try some.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

Mitch,

>I've also tried this paper and was very impressed with it, both feel 
>and tonal range.  It has a great look.  Sorry, no measurements . . .  
>but its on my list of favorites.

Ok, thanks.  I'm going to try some.

Does anyone know the ecological implications of using bamboo?  Is this
supposed to be a good thing, using fewer trees, etc?  

Does being mostly bamboo (90% bamboo/10% cotton) classify this paper
as alpha cellulose?

Is this paper more or less expensive than others?


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

Bamboo is supposed to be ecologically superior because it regrows very 
quickly, and is thus more renewable.  There was a discussion about this 
somewhere a few months ago when the paper came out.  As with most 
things, I think there's another view as well.

I don't remember about the prices . . .  but Shades is having a sale on 
the bamboo.

Mitch

On May 8, 2008, at 9:40 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Mitch,
>
>> I've also tried this paper and was very impressed with it, both feel
>> and tonal range.  It has a great look.  Sorry, no measurements . . .
>> but its on my list of favorites.
>
> Ok, thanks.  I'm going to try some.
>
> Does anyone know the ecological implications of using bamboo?  Is this
> supposed to be a good thing, using fewer trees, etc?
>
> Does being mostly bamboo (90% bamboo/10% cotton) classify this paper
> as alpha cellulose?
>
> Is this paper more or less expensive than others?
>
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

I have been considering some experiments on this as well. Now I hear 
about the warm tone, I'm not sure. But the other comments are 
encouraging.

> Bamboo is supposed to be ecologically superior because it regrows 
very 
> quickly, and is thus more renewable.  There was a discussion about 
this 
> somewhere a few months ago when the paper came out. 

As I understood it, this is indeed supposed to be a major feature of 
the paper.

> As with most 
> things, I think there's another view as well.

What would that be then?

> 
> I don't remember about the prices . . .  but Shades is having a 
sale on 
> the bamboo.

I checked some time ago and I can't recall the exact prices but as I 
remember it it was not hugely different from Photo Rag. 

Joost

Hahnemuhle used to produce a beautiful paper called
'japan fibre' it was luminous white, fibrous and
partially transparent... a stunning paper, a pity they
discontinued it.

> I have been considering some experiments on this as
> well. Now I hear 
> about the warm tone, I'm not sure. But the other
> comments are 
> encouraging.
> 
> > Bamboo is supposed to be ecologically superior
> because it regrows 
> very 
> > quickly, and is thus more renewable.  There was a
> discussion about 
> this 
> > somewhere a few months ago when the paper came
> out. 
> 
> As I understood it, this is indeed supposed to be a
> major feature of 
> the paper.
> 
> > As with most 
> > things, I think there's another view as well.
> 
> What would that be then?
> 
> > 
> > I don't remember about the prices . . .  but
> Shades is having a 
> sale on 
> > the bamboo.
> 
> I checked some time ago and I can't recall the exact
> prices but as I 
> remember it it was not hugely different from Photo
> Rag. 
> 
> Joost
> 
> 
> 
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, STEVE DEER 
<s.deer@...> wrote:
>
> Hahnemuhle used to produce a beautiful paper called
> 'japan fibre' it was luminous white, fibrous and
> partially transparent... a stunning paper, a pity they
> discontinued it.
> 

That's a pity!! That sounds exactly like the paper I was looking for!! 
Is there any alternative to this on the market?

Joost

joost

I think it is still produced by another co and in a
different name (I could be wrong), someone did advise
me once but I forget... someone here may know of it...
perhaps start a new thread?

regards

steve



--- Joost Horsten <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> STEVE DEER 
> <s.deer@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hahnemuhle used to produce a beautiful paper
> called
> > 'japan fibre' it was luminous white, fibrous and
> > partially transparent... a stunning paper, a pity
> they
> > discontinued it.
> > 
> 
> That's a pity!! That sounds exactly like the paper I
> was looking for!! 
> Is there any alternative to this on the market?
> 
> Joost
> 
> 
>

I've been framing all my work with Nielsen style metal frames (#11,or 
similar), in sizes up to 22" x 28".

But now I've purchased a used Epson 7600, and so will need to do 
framing up to 30" x 40".  Can I continue using just the frame pieces, 
or is extra support needed?  Is the #11 style too thin structurally 
...or (in your opinion) visually?

While asking about framing, what do you use for backing?  I've been 
using Bien Fang archival foam core.  But I see people buying an 
archival quality corrugated, and now a plastic product that looks 
like corrugated.  I'm interested in archival properties, structural 
stability, cost, and ease of work.

Thanks much,


Arthur

	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
	-------------------------------------------------
	Ten New Island Avenue         . land 207.766.5722
	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     . cell 207.615.5722
	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  . af@...

	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
                    www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007


	"Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an
	 unusual or choreographically under-used location,
	 ... spontaneous frolic evoking a joyous response."

>  While asking about framing, what do you use for backing? I've been
>  using Bien Fang archival foam core. But I see people buying an
>  archival quality corrugated, and now a plastic product that looks
>  like corrugated. I'm interested in archival properties, structural
>  stability, cost, and ease of work.
>

Arthur,
As a framer, photographer and inkjet printer I may have some insight 
for you.

Number one. I don't like metal frames for three reasons.

1) Unless you put tape all over the back to seal the gap between 
backing and metal you will always get bugs and/or debris in the framing 
package.

2) Even heavier wider metal will flex in the middle of the long leg. 90 
% of glass replacement/repair that I do is metal frames. Often they are 
broken during moving as thus. "I was carrying this picture to the other 
room and it just exploded in my hands." This is due to the flex of the 
metal against the glass in the frame.

3) The metal clips used to hold the print in will almost always cause 
buckling and distortion of the backing material over time.

  I used to use a lot of metal and now don't use any. Sometimes my 
framing customers insist for esthetic reasons as I have wood that 
matches the price of metal. If you are going to continue - pick a 
larger metal profile to work with on this size or use acrylic. I often 
use crossing wires on the back to hold the sides together to help with 
the flex. And/or use acrylic. A large piece of broken glass is the most 
dangerous thing in my shop. Even if you have to charge a bit more, 
acrylic is a great option. It is available precut into smaller sizes 
now. It's much lighter and you won't endanger your clients.

Instead of metal clips on the perimeter I use strips of foam core or 
mat board ( whatever fills the gap the best with a bit of snugness ) 
taped into place with artists tape ( acid free ).

As far as backing you are correct to pursue something more substantial 
than 3/16s acid free foam core. At least a layer of mat board PVAed to 
the foam core will add rigidity. I would also consider 1/4 mighty core 
or gator board. While neither may be considerable "archival" by some, 
going into an open back metal frame with a cotton barrier between 
backing and art there should be no problem with off-gassing into the 
frame package.

Feel free to contact me off list as well jerry at saddletreegallery dot 
com for more questions and or sources for material.

Jerry



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(I'm glad you brought this up.  I've been meaning to write a report/ 
review of my experiences with Bamboo.)

I have a show up currently (in my small town of Silverton, Oregon) of  
23 prints, all on Hahnemuhle Bamboo, printed on a 7500 with MIS UT2  
inks (no toning inks used).  I used IJC/OPM to profile and print,  
which worked really well.

Bamboo's a lovely paper -- but only if you like very warm tones!  It's  
a wonderful match for pure-carbon inks, since the off-white of the  
paper combines really nicely with the brownish tones of the carbon.  I  
mounted the prints behind Rising museum mat board that had a warm  
tone, too, so the whole package was very pleasant.

The feel of the paper is unique -- rather than the cloth-like texture  
of the cotton rag papers, Bamboo feels pressed and almost armor-like,  
and is quite tough (I used the 17"x39' roll).  However, it still has a  
personality; it doesn't feel mass-produced.  There is a slight  
texture, but it's more like the feel of leather than of cloth.

For my subject (photographs of southern Europe), the resulting tone  
worked really well.  If you're a fan of photogravure or intaglio  
printmaking, you'll like it; if you're a fan of cool-toned wet  
printing, you probably won't.

My only (somewhat unserious) complaint is in the marketing -- the  
packaging talks about "spiritual printing" or such like; it's  
definitely being pushed towards people who respond to eco/natural/zen  
talk.  Luckily, that's me.  ;-)

As an aside -- after several years of not printing anything, and  
hauling around a non-working 7500, it was quite interesting to re- 
enter the field of B&W printing.  I used to be a die-hard fan of  
Somerset Velvet (first uncoated, then coated).  I figured that paper  
technology had moved on, and so when I was offered the show, I tested  
a variety of modern papers.  I was quite surprised to find that I  
actually still preferred the less-sharp look of Somerset over the  
various brightened, high-contrast, high-dMax papers.  Call me old- 
school, I guess.

Regarding the ecological pros/cons of bamboo -- the usual argument for  
architectural-style bamboo (eg, flooring) is that while bamboo grows  
quickly and is replenishable, that type only grows in Asia, and so the  
energy taken to ship the product to elsewhere in the world may cancel  
out its ecological benefits.  I don't know anything about the  
production process of bamboo paper, though; perhaps it is sourced from  
elsewhere, or is composed of recycled bits.  It would be interesting  
to see if Hahnemuhle would like to explain that to us.

Best,
--John

photos at: www.johnlabovitz.com

A friend used to run a frame shop. He made beautiful, hand stained, 
waxed, and polished frames out of a variety of wood mouldings.  After 
seeing his work I could never go back to metal. Beautiful stuff.

Even further OT: Any good sources for pre-cut mats in larger sizes - 
with openings for 16x20 and 24x30 inch prints?   

I looked at Light Impressions. Good product, but fairly costly.  I need 
them more for "proofing" images - so that I can see what they will look 
like finished - than for selling to customers and using for framing, 
etc. Just need a stack around the studio.

I have a bad right shoulder that causes hand pain, can't cut my own.

Thanks folks!

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael:

Check out framedestination.com. I'm a satisfied customer and you can  
check their clearance section for discounted pre-cut mats.

All the best,

Andrew
---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com



On May 9, 2008, at 10:27 PM, Michael T. Murphy wrote:

> A friend used to run a frame shop. He made beautiful, hand stained,
> waxed, and polished frames out of a variety of wood mouldings. After
> seeing his work I could never go back to metal. Beautiful stuff.
>
> Even further OT: Any good sources for pre-cut mats in larger sizes -
> with openings for 16x20 and 24x30 inch prints?
>
> I looked at Light Impressions. Good product, but fairly costly. I need
> them more for "proofing" images - so that I can see what they will  
> look
> like finished - than for selling to customers and using for framing,
> etc. Just need a stack around the studio.
>
> I have a bad right shoulder that causes hand pain, can't cut my own.
>
> Thanks folks!
>
> Best,
> Michael
>
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I ordered mats from
REDIMAT
343 W. Robles Ave.
Santa Rosa, CA 95407
sales@...
[toll free] (877) 883-1011
www.redimat.com

I was very happy.
Mike J.

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michael T.
Murphy
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 8:28 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re:Off topic - Supporting larger frames, frame backing

A friend used to run a frame shop. He made beautiful, hand stained,
waxed, and polished frames out of a variety of wood mouldings.  After
seeing his work I could never go back to metal. Beautiful stuff.

Even further OT: Any good sources for pre-cut mats in larger sizes -
with openings for 16x20 and 24x30 inch prints?

I looked at Light Impressions. Good product, but fairly costly.  I need
them more for "proofing" images - so that I can see what they will look
like finished - than for selling to customers and using for framing,
etc. Just need a stack around the studio.

I have a bad right shoulder that causes hand pain, can't cut my own.

Thanks folks!

Best,
Michael

Michael,

Check out http://www.framing4yourself.com/ for mats. They have some  
pre-cut and they may be able to do custom cutting as well.

Steve

On Fri, 09 May 2008 19:27:51 -0700, Michael T. Murphy  
<uriel_bear@...> wrote:

> A friend used to run a frame shop. He made beautiful, hand stained,
> waxed, and polished frames out of a variety of wood mouldings.  After
> seeing his work I could never go back to metal. Beautiful stuff.
>
> Even further OT: Any good sources for pre-cut mats in larger sizes -
> with openings for 16x20 and 24x30 inch prints?
>
> snip . . .

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Thank you folks, those look like good resources!  There are so many 
questionable sites on the web, it is good to have a referral to a site 
that you know is solid.

Andrew, the "clearance" mats are perfect for what I need around the 
studio!  The price is great on those mats. I like to be able to see 
a "finished" version of an image on the wall for final editing. 

Thanks again.

Best,
Michael