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New printer ?

New printer ?

2009-12-16 by JohnB

I have finally decided that the new printer I think I want is the Epson 2880.

I will be printing a lot of black & white photos and also color. Probably half and half. I don't print many glossy photos, mostly Matte and Satin finishes. A lot of them will be 13x19.

I am sure I will get very good color with this printer. But how good is the B & W printing? Will they have a color tint (green?)or any other color? Will this printer make VERY GOOD black and white with out any tint? 

I have thought of the Epson 1900 but I read that the color is superb but the b&w is not as good at the 2880. What is your opinion?

Also I want a CISS unit for this printer. Question, which one? What brand is recommended and what brand of ink.?

I now use an Epson 1280 converted to UT b&w ink and a Canon S9000 for my color. I want to shift to only one printer to do both. Again, your opinions appreciated.

Re: [Digital BW] New printer ?

2009-12-16 by Brad Smith

Sorry, but I can't address the CIS issue for both B&/W and color.   But regarding the printers as delivered, if you are REALLY going to be printing a lot, then you might also consider going with the 3880 because of ink costs.  It is a pro-line printer, does really excellent B&W as well as color, and ink will cost a lot less.  Obviously, it also gives you the option of printing larger - up to 17" wide.  It is larger, but not that much larger than the 2880.


On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:06 AM, JohnB wrote:

> I have finally decided that the new printer I think I want is the Epson 2880.
> 
> I will be printing a lot of black & white photos and also color. Probably half and half. I don't print many glossy photos, mostly Matte and Satin finishes. A lot of them will be 13x19.
> 
> I am sure I will get very good color with this printer. But how good is the B & W printing? Will they have a color tint (green?)or any other color? Will this printer make VERY GOOD black and white with out any tint? 
> 
> I have thought of the Epson 1900 but I read that the color is superb but the b&w is not as good at the 2880. What is your opinion?
> 
> Also I want a CISS unit for this printer. Question, which one? What brand is recommended and what brand of ink.?
> 
> I now use an Epson 1280 converted to UT b&w ink and a Canon S9000 for my color. I want to shift to only one printer to do both. Again, your opinions appreciated. 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New printer ?

2009-12-16 by robtmckay@aol.com

Last year when my 2200 died I was seriously considering upgrading to a  
2880. But I finally decided to pay a bit more and go for the 3800. 
 
I made the right decision. The 3800 makes absolutely gorgeous prints - and  
remember that it ships with close to $500 worth of ink included, so in 
reality  it's not much more expensive than the 2880.
 
Rob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
In a message dated 12/16/2009 10:24:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
bms0345@... writes:
 
<<But regarding the printers as delivered, if you are REALLY  going to be 
printing a lot, then you might also consider going with the 3880  because of 
ink costs.  It is a pro-line printer, does really excellent  B&W as well as 
color, and ink will cost a lot less.  Obviously, it also  gives you the 
option of printing larger - up to 17" wide.  It is larger,  but not that much 
larger than the 2880.>>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: New printer ?

2009-12-16 by jespes

>  I finally decided to pay a bit more and go for the 3800. 
>  
> I made the right decision. The 3800 makes absolutely gorgeous prints - and  
> remember that it ships with close to $500 worth of ink included


Let me second that on the 3800, at least as far as b/w is concerned. I upgraded to a 3800 a few months ago after realizing it was was "cheaper" than it seemed due to the included inks. Today am getting what I consider superb b/w prints from it using QuadToneRip and the stock Epson K3 inks. 

For smaller prints, I use a 2200 repurposed with Piezography and refillable carts from inkjetcarts.us. that setup, too, is a complete success.

Re: New printer ?

2009-12-17 by pr_roark

"JohnB" <jrb1934@...> wrote:
>
> ... the new printer I think I want is the Epson 2880.
> 
> ... black & white photos and also color. Probably half and half. 

> ... mostly Matte and Satin finishes. 

I think what most people call "satin" is a paper that requires a photo black ink.  So, the ease of or need for black ink switching may be an issue.

 
> ... how good is the B & W printing?

Most of the comments seem to be positive.  

I think from an ultimate B&W perspective -- including smoothness, number of gray inks, lack of color artifacts and possibly other issues -- the dedicated B&W approaches might still have some advantages.  It's a trade of.

> Will they have a color tint (green?)or any other color?

They will have color inks in them.  You can print with only the gray inks with QTR, but the tone is not very pleasing without color to tone the image.  The "Advanced B&W" uses a fair amount of color.  You can cut this down with QTR.  

With a magnifier, you'll see color dots in the highlights.  

There will be metamerism to some degree.  

Profiling is harder with high gamut inks and toners -- monotone inksets are the easiest to profile and keep from having color artifacts.

With respect to image tone shifting over time due to differential fade, the Epson and HP inksets are quite good according to my reading of the Aardenburg test results.  While the images will ultimately show tone change due to the colors fading faster than the carbon pigments, the Aardenburg tests show the Epson OEM inks to be very well balanced, at least on some papers.  The 100% carbon is more stable, but it'll take a long time before you'd see any difference.  

To be sure the combination of ink and paper your using or considering is stable, check the Aardenburg tests.  

See http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/acceleratedagingtests.html 

 
> ... Epson 1900 ...

The MIS 3MK approach makes it an extremely inexpensive and lightfast 100% carbon printer.  While the 1.5 picoliter drop of the 1900 makes very good black only prints, some will notice more graininess in smooth areas like plain gray skies than an inkset with dilute grays in it.  

I'm not sure if black only with the OEM or full color set works well in the 1900.  It did not in my 1800.  In my 1400 it's quite good, but still not what I'd want for fine art.

 
> Also I want a CISS unit for this printer.

I've had 3 Superjet units work well.  The last one required the plastic pins that hold on the chip to be shaved down, but that was easy to do.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: New printer ?

2009-12-17 by Roger

Paul, there was some discussion on Photo.net about Epson stating the US version R1900 was not a 1.5pl printer as the R1800.  It appears to be a 3.0pl machine:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=TiD&oid=63073901&category=Products

I have no idea if this matters for anything.
Roger


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> "JohnB" <jrb1934@> wrote:
> >
> > ... the new printer I think I want is the Epson 2880.
> > 
> > ... black & white photos and also color. Probably half and half. 
> 
> > ... mostly Matte and Satin finishes. 
> 
> I think what most people call "satin" is a paper that requires a photo black ink.  So, the ease of or need for black ink switching may be an issue.
> 
>  
> > ... how good is the B & W printing?
> 
> Most of the comments seem to be positive.  
> 
> I think from an ultimate B&W perspective -- including smoothness, number of gray inks, lack of color artifacts and possibly other issues -- the dedicated B&W approaches might still have some advantages.  It's a trade of.
> 
> > Will they have a color tint (green?)or any other color?
> 
> They will have color inks in them.  You can print with only the gray inks with QTR, but the tone is not very pleasing without color to tone the image.  The "Advanced B&W" uses a fair amount of color.  You can cut this down with QTR.  
> 
> With a magnifier, you'll see color dots in the highlights.  
> 
> There will be metamerism to some degree.  
> 
> Profiling is harder with high gamut inks and toners -- monotone inksets are the easiest to profile and keep from having color artifacts.
> 
> With respect to image tone shifting over time due to differential fade, the Epson and HP inksets are quite good according to my reading of the Aardenburg test results.  While the images will ultimately show tone change due to the colors fading faster than the carbon pigments, the Aardenburg tests show the Epson OEM inks to be very well balanced, at least on some papers.  The 100% carbon is more stable, but it'll take a long time before you'd see any difference.  
> 
> To be sure the combination of ink and paper your using or considering is stable, check the Aardenburg tests.  
> 
> See http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/acceleratedagingtests.html 
> 
>  
> > ... Epson 1900 ...
> 
> The MIS 3MK approach makes it an extremely inexpensive and lightfast 100% carbon printer.  While the 1.5 picoliter drop of the 1900 makes very good black only prints, some will notice more graininess in smooth areas like plain gray skies than an inkset with dilute grays in it.  
> 
> I'm not sure if black only with the OEM or full color set works well in the 1900.  It did not in my 1800.  In my 1400 it's quite good, but still not what I'd want for fine art.
> 
>  
> > Also I want a CISS unit for this printer.
> 
> I've had 3 Superjet units work well.  The last one required the plastic pins that hold on the chip to be shaved down, but that was easy to do.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: New printer ?

2009-12-17 by pr_roark

I suspect the Epson US website is not correct.  In the UK and Australia, the Epson web sites still have info saying the R1900 head uses 1.5 pl drops.  I doubt the US 1900 would be different.  But, I've never actually used a 1900.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger" <rsmith02@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Paul, there was some discussion on Photo.net about Epson stating the US version R1900 was not a 1.5pl printer as the R1800.  It appears to be a 3.0pl machine:
> 
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=TiD&oid=63073901&category=Products
> 
> I have no idea if this matters for anything.
> Roger
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <paul.roark@> wrote:
> >
> > "JohnB" <jrb1934@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ... the new printer I think I want is the Epson 2880.
> > > 
> > > ... black & white photos and also color. Probably half and half. 
> > 
> > > ... mostly Matte and Satin finishes. 
> > 
> > I think what most people call "satin" is a paper that requires a photo black ink.  So, the ease of or need for black ink switching may be an issue.
> > 
> >  
> > > ... how good is the B & W printing?
> > 
> > Most of the comments seem to be positive.  
> > 
> > I think from an ultimate B&W perspective -- including smoothness, number of gray inks, lack of color artifacts and possibly other issues -- the dedicated B&W approaches might still have some advantages.  It's a trade of.
> > 
> > > Will they have a color tint (green?)or any other color?
> > 
> > They will have color inks in them.  You can print with only the gray inks with QTR, but the tone is not very pleasing without color to tone the image.  The "Advanced B&W" uses a fair amount of color.  You can cut this down with QTR.  
> > 
> > With a magnifier, you'll see color dots in the highlights.  
> > 
> > There will be metamerism to some degree.  
> > 
> > Profiling is harder with high gamut inks and toners -- monotone inksets are the easiest to profile and keep from having color artifacts.
> > 
> > With respect to image tone shifting over time due to differential fade, the Epson and HP inksets are quite good according to my reading of the Aardenburg test results.  While the images will ultimately show tone change due to the colors fading faster than the carbon pigments, the Aardenburg tests show the Epson OEM inks to be very well balanced, at least on some papers.  The 100% carbon is more stable, but it'll take a long time before you'd see any difference.  
> > 
> > To be sure the combination of ink and paper your using or considering is stable, check the Aardenburg tests.  
> > 
> > See http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/acceleratedagingtests.html 
> > 
> >  
> > > ... Epson 1900 ...
> > 
> > The MIS 3MK approach makes it an extremely inexpensive and lightfast 100% carbon printer.  While the 1.5 picoliter drop of the 1900 makes very good black only prints, some will notice more graininess in smooth areas like plain gray skies than an inkset with dilute grays in it.  
> > 
> > I'm not sure if black only with the OEM or full color set works well in the 1900.  It did not in my 1800.  In my 1400 it's quite good, but still not what I'd want for fine art.
> > 
> >  
> > > Also I want a CISS unit for this printer.
> > 
> > I've had 3 Superjet units work well.  The last one required the plastic pins that hold on the chip to be shaved down, but that was easy to do.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New printer ?

2009-12-17 by Shoshanna Moser

I have a1900, purchased for printing small-to-midsize prints and CD/DVD 
printer, and can honestly say that after 20 years of buying Epsons this 
is the only one in which I have been completely and  unequivocally 
disappointed, and the only one I deeply regret having purchased and 
would never recommend to anyone. 

It's failings are many and irksome, and while I refuse to put myself in 
a bad mood this late at night by listing them, the matter of drop size 
is important because it's something Epson blatantly misrepresented.  At 
the time I bought the 1900 Epson was touting it as using a 1.5 picoliter 
drop, and this was the factor that convinced me to buy it.  However, 
with my first prints it it became immediately evident that this was not 
the case, and that it was incapable of producing prints that met my 
standards. 

I tried for months to get a decent print out of it, and I suppose that 
for glossy snapshot lovers it may be just the ticket, but for anyone who 
demands better-- and certainly for anyone who loves matte prints-- it's 
horribly inadequate.  No, let me rephrase that:  it's godawful.

(Now, my 3800 and 7880 are different stories entirely...)

The atrocious performance of the 1900, and Epson's original 
misrepresentation of its capabilities, have caused me for the first time 
to have doubts about Epson quality as a whole and, more importantly, 
where the company is headed. 

I remember the long-ago days when Gateway made very high end, very high 
performance computers for intelligent people who knew how to use them 
and superb tech support ...and I remember when they began racing down 
that slippery slope of turning out dreck for the masses.  Does that 
company even exist anymore?  I really find myself wondering if the 1900 
is the veritable canary in the coal mine, signaling a similar decline 
for Epson. 

Best wishes,

Shoshanna
Gold Beach - South Coast of Oregon
http://www.pbase.com/shoshanna




,

Re: New printer ?

2009-12-17 by Tom Fielder

Paul et al -
 
With referencee to the 1.5 picoliter drop of the 1900:  It turns out that
the USA version of the 1900 has a 3.0 picoliter drop while the overseas EU
version has a 1.5 picoliter drop ---- two different print heads on the same
model number printer.    The Epson UK web site notes that the R1900 is
"1.5pl (minimum) with Variable-sized Droplet Technology with Ultra Micro
DotT."  On the other hand, the Epson USA site states "Our Advanced
MicroPiezo print head with AMC (Advanced Meniscus Control) is at the core of
the Epson Stylus Photo R1900. This permanent, high-performance print head
can create variable sized droplets as small as 3.0 picoliters and place them
with incredible precision."   See:

 
<http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=y
es&infoType=TiD&oid=63073901&category=Products>
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=ye
s&infoType=TiD&oid=63073901&category=Products

Curiosity got me so I called Epson.   While the model number is R1900 for
both countries, the serial numbers and cartage numbers are different in the
UK compared to the USA/Canada serial numbers and cart numbers.  Epson uses
different print heads in each country.  As the Epson tech told me, you're
better off with the UK model but then you have to order from the UK and
you'll have different carts.  

Tom

 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: New printer ?

2009-12-18 by Roy

Tom,

The R1900 is an odd ball so the odds that the website is wrong is more likely.
And sure the Epson rep reads the website just like anybody else.

The inks are the same: Gloss UltraChrome with no light inks.  There are QTR
users with both R1800 and R1900.  The drivers are identical.  There's just no
way for all this to work if it doesn't have 1.5pl drops.

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Paul et al -
>  
> With referencee to the 1.5 picoliter drop of the 1900:  It turns out that
> the USA version of the 1900 has a 3.0 picoliter drop while the overseas EU
> version has a 1.5 picoliter drop ---- two different print heads on the same
> model number printer.    The Epson UK web site notes that the R1900 is
> "1.5pl (minimum) with Variable-sized Droplet Technology with Ultra Micro
> DotT."  On the other hand, the Epson USA site states "Our Advanced
> MicroPiezo print head with AMC (Advanced Meniscus Control) is at the core of
> the Epson Stylus Photo R1900. This permanent, high-performance print head
> can create variable sized droplets as small as 3.0 picoliters and place them
> with incredible precision."   See:
> 
>  
> <http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=y
> es&infoType=TiD&oid=63073901&category=Products>
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=ye
> s&infoType=TiD&oid=63073901&category=Products
> 
> Curiosity got me so I called Epson.   While the model number is R1900 for
> both countries, the serial numbers and cartage numbers are different in the
> UK compared to the USA/Canada serial numbers and cart numbers.  Epson uses
> different print heads in each country.  As the Epson tech told me, you're
> better off with the UK model but then you have to order from the UK and
> you'll have different carts.  
> 
> Tom
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New printer ?

2009-12-18 by Bob Frost

The Sales Guide for the R1900 in America and Canada says it is a 1.5 pl 
droplet printer:-

http://knowareuniversity.com/library/RefMat/inkjets/R1900_SalesGuide.pdf

Bob Frost.

--------------------------------------------------
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Roy" <roy@...>

> Tom,
>
> The R1900 is an odd ball so the odds that the website is wrong is more 
> likely.
> And sure the Epson rep reads the website just like anybody else.
>
> The inks are the same: Gloss UltraChrome with no light inks.  There are 
> QTR
> users with both R1800 and R1900.  The drivers are identical.  There's just 
> no
> way for all this to work if it doesn't have 1.5pl drops.

Re: [Digital BW] New printer ?

2009-12-18 by Brubaker family

Look at Clayton Jones' web site (cjcom.net) for his views on the Epson Advanced Black and White on the 2400 printer, which was the predecessor to the 2880.

--- On Wed, 12/16/09, JohnB <jrb1934@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: JohnB <jrb1934@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] New printer ?
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 1:06 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      I have finally decided that the new printer I think I want is the Epson 2880.



I will be printing a lot of black & white photos and also color. Probably half and half. I don't print many glossy photos, mostly Matte and Satin finishes. A lot of them will be 13x19.



I am sure I will get very good color with this printer. But how good is the B & W printing? Will they have a color tint (green?)or any other color? Will this printer make VERY GOOD black and white with out any tint? 



I have thought of the Epson 1900 but I read that the color is superb but the b&w is not as good at the 2880. What is your opinion?



Also I want a CISS unit for this printer. Question, which one? What brand is recommended and what brand of ink.?



I now use an Epson 1280 converted to UT b&w ink and a Canon S9000 for my color. I want to shift to only one printer to do both. Again, your opinions appreciated. 





    
     

    
    


 



  











      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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