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Thread

Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-24 by yahoo

Hello, 

Question not related to sound or DC ripples, but to electrical bills and power consumption: 

As far as I understood, the PSU 3 leaves behind the massive toroid and adopts a switching mode followed by the same “linear” regulatory circuit. 
Any “purely” linear rectifying PSU -like PSU2- is generally the least energy efficient converter from AC to DC. 
Switching mode power supplies are supposed to be way more efficient.

I am probably not the only one who worries about the carbon footprint of their modular activity in general. 
The question then is: PSU3 vs. PSU2, are we talking about a third more efficient, a quater… Is it worth changing it over energy consumption? 
(On the very long run: will the difference in electrical bill pay for the upgrade?)

Thanks. 

J.

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-24 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> Hello,
>
> Question not related to sound or DC ripples, but to electrical bills and power consumption:
>
> As far as I understood, the PSU 3 leaves behind the massive toroid and adopts a switching mode followed by the same
> “linear” regulatory circuit.
> Any “purely” linear rectifying PSU -like PSU2- is generally the least energy efficient converter from AC to DC.
> Switching mode power supplies are supposed to be way more efficient.
>
> I am probably not the only one who worries about the carbon footprint of their modular activity in general.
> The question then is: PSU3 vs. PSU2, are we talking about a third more efficient, a quater… Is it worth changing it over
> energy consumption?
> (On the very long run: will the difference in electrical bill pay for the upgrade?)
>
> Thanks.
>
> J.

The A-100PSU3 is definitely greener than the PSU2. The efficiency is about 70-80% (depends upon the load). The efficiency of the
switching supply is about 85% but the linear regulation eats up a bit because 3V are converted into heat because of the 15V->12V
linear regulation. At the max. current (2A) the loss is about 6W (3V*2A). For lower currents (i.e. not full 2A load) the loss is
smaller.
We also tried several "pure" 12V switching supplies from different manufacturers but were not satisfied with the quality (we still
offer them on our special list if anybody is interested). That's why we added the old-fashioned linear regulation.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-24 by Florian Anwander

Hello

Am 24.02.2016 um 11:37 schrieb yahoo ctujoao@yahoo.co.uk [Doepfer_a100]:
> I am probably not the only one who worries about the carbon footprint of their modular activity in general.
If you think in ecologic terms, then the worst part of the A-100 is the 
aluminum case. Followed by the all over energy waste coming with the 
production (especially the mining) of copper, required for all 
components and the pcbs.


I once wrote several articles about various topics on "cables" in the 
studio. Within that research I had an interview with a reseacher of the 
renowned eco institute in Freiburg/Germany, about the ecologic footprint 
of cables. He gave a simple example that they had investigated some 
years before:

It takes more energy to produce a power cable for an average home 
device, than this cable will transport in its whole livecycle (the 
example was a TV set, that was used one hour a day for 20 years). It is 
the same with cars: it costs more energy to produce a car, than you will 
ever put into driving it.

So the most ecological behaviour is: repair your car, so you can drive 
it as long as possible; and: take care of your modular synth and use it 
as long as possible. :-)

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-24 by christian ienni

for my very small part the biggest upgrade i'm making as part of my Massive Home Studio Remodel this year (turning the big main living room into a dedicated synth studio with my 30 years of gear all set up) is FINALLY getting a solar photovoltaic array installed on the roof to help power it!  :-)

Show quoted textHide quoted text

      From: "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
 To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

    Hello

Am 24.02.2016 um 11:37 schrieb yahoo ctujoao@yahoo.co.uk [Doepfer_a100]:
> I am probably not the only one who worries about the carbon footprint of their modular activity in general.
If you think in ecologic terms, then the worst part of the A-100 is the 
aluminum case. Followed by the all over energy waste coming with the 
production (especially the mining) of copper, required for all 
components and the pcbs.

I once wrote several articles about various topics on "cables" in the 
studio. Within that research I had an interview with a reseacher of the 
renowned eco institute in Freiburg/Germany, about the ecologic footprint 
of cables. He gave a simple example that they had investigated some 
years before:

It takes more energy to produce a power cable for an average home 
device, than this cable will transport in its whole livecycle (the 
example was a TV set, that was used one hour a day for 20 years). It is 
the same with cars: it costs more energy to produce a car, than you will 
ever put into driving it.

So the most ecological behaviour is: repair your car, so you can drive 
it as long as possible; and: take care of your modular synth and use it 
as long as possible. :-)

Florian

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-24 by Jonathan

Already done the solar array and now I use my synths for free whenever the sun is out - more often than you might think in the uk in winter!

Jonathan Shapero
From my iPad Air

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 24 Feb 2016, at 17:49, christian ienni ienni23@yahoo.com [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> for my very small part the biggest upgrade i'm making as part of my Massive Home Studio Remodel this year (turning the big main living room into a dedicated synth studio with my 30 years of gear all set up) is FINALLY getting a solar photovoltaic array installed on the roof to help power it!  :-)
> 
> 
> From: "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?
> 
> Hello
> 
> Am 24.02.2016 um 11:37 schrieb yahoo ctujoao@yahoo.co.uk [Doepfer_a100]:
> > I am probably not the only one who worries about the carbon footprint of their modular activity in general.
> If you think in ecologic terms, then the worst part of the A-100 is the 
> aluminum case. Followed by the all over energy waste coming with the 
> production (especially the mining) of copper, required for all 
> components and the pcbs.
> 
> I once wrote several articles about various topics on "cables" in the 
> studio. Within that research I had an interview with a reseacher of the 
> renowned eco institute in Freiburg/Germany, about the ecologic footprint 
> of cables. He gave a simple example that they had investigated some 
> years before:
> 
> It takes more energy to produce a power cable for an average home 
> device, than this cable will transport in its whole livecycle (the 
> example was a TV set, that was used one hour a day for 20 years). It is 
> the same with cars: it costs more energy to produce a car, than you will 
> ever put into driving it.
> 
> So the most ecological behaviour is: repair your car, so you can drive 
> it as long as possible; and: take care of your modular synth and use it 
> as long as possible. :-)
> 
> Florian
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-25 by christian ienni

an ironic advantage of climate change? more sun in the uk winter.  :-/
(i'm in silicon valley so enough sun isn't an issue  ;-)  though i do wish the battery tech was better as i'm more of a night person)

Show quoted textHide quoted text

      From: "Jonathan jss9h@aol.com [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
 To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?
   
    Already done the solar array and now I use my synths for free whenever the sun is out - more often than you might think in the uk in winter!

Jonathan ShaperoFrom my iPad Air

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-25 by yahoo

Thanks for all the answers. 

I completely side with what florian said: to be able to offset the carbon footprint of goods assembled with parts coming from all over the planet is kind of mission impossible. So, let's buy things once and buy durable things. My car is now 17 years old, and still drives absolutely fine - it’s a bit of an ecosystem inside, but who cares it still gets me from A to B when required. 

As for module production… I blame myself when I switch on the modular, and think about the energy and minerals it required to come into life. That’s the price of western civilisation custom made entertainment.  
And for the PSU3: I only had a look at it because it’s go 5V. I might just go for the 5V adaptor for my PSU2 anyway. 

Another though, totally outside this group intended subject, is to the solar panels: it must be a while before you manage to offset the carbon footprint of their production (getting the Si crystals, the doping, the plasma slicing, etc…). 

Blabbering, Stop!! 

Thanks again for all the details.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 24 Feb 2016, at 17:49, christian ienni ienni23@yahoo.com [Doepfer_a100] <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> for my very small part the biggest upgrade i'm making as part of my Massive Home Studio Remodel this year (turning the big main living room into a dedicated synth studio with my 30 years of gear all set up) is FINALLY getting a solar photovoltaic array installed on the roof to help power it!  :-)
> 
> 
> From: "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de <mailto:fanwander@mnet-online.de> [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>>
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?
> 
>  
> Hello
> 
> Am 24.02.2016 um 11:37 schrieb yahoo ctujoao@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:ctujoao@yahoo.co.uk> [Doepfer_a100]:
> > I am probably not the only one who worries about the carbon footprint of their modular activity in general.
> If you think in ecologic terms, then the worst part of the A-100 is the 
> aluminum case. Followed by the all over energy waste coming with the 
> production (especially the mining) of copper, required for all 
> components and the pcbs.
> 
> I once wrote several articles about various topics on "cables" in the 
> studio. Within that research I had an interview with a reseacher of the 
> renowned eco institute in Freiburg/Germany, about the ecologic footprint 
> of cables. He gave a simple example that they had investigated some 
> years before:
> 
> It takes more energy to produce a power cable for an average home 
> device, than this cable will transport in its whole livecycle (the 
> example was a TV set, that was used one hour a day for 20 years). It is 
> the same with cars: it costs more energy to produce a car, than you will 
> ever put into driving it.
> 
> So the most ecological behaviour is: repair your car, so you can drive 
> it as long as possible; and: take care of your modular synth and use it 
> as long as possible. :-)
> 
> Florian
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

2016-02-26 by christian ienni

heh, one more bit of blabber (as Detective Columbo used to say, "Oh, ONE more thing..." ^_^ ), re: getting "durable" gear that lasts... my buddy and tech guru (who helps me keep all my vintage gear alive & functioning) told me about how he's talked to a number of people in the industry (sales reps & so forth) about why the big synth companies usually don't listen when people ask them to just reissue the cool older gear, and, off the record of course, they totally admitted that THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE USING THE OLD GEAR AT ALL! they WANT it to fail after a few years so the customer base is forced to buy their shiny new stuff... until IT fails, and along comes the next new shiny thing... lather, rinse, repeat... the mainstream synth industry is just as guilty as the auto industry (and many many others) of following the old "planned obsolescence" business model. at least the smaller companies in the Eurorack scene do seem to care about quality and long-term durability. ok, Rant *OVER* (with much apologies for going extra-off-tangent).  ;-)

Show quoted textHide quoted text

      From: "yahoo ctujoao@yahoo.co.uk [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
 To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:20 AM
 Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Is the PSU3 a lot greener than PSU2?

Thanks for all the answers. 
I completely side with what florian said: to be able to offset the carbon footprint of goods assembled with parts coming from all over the planet is kind of mission impossible. So, let's buy things once and buy durable things. My car is now 17 years old, and still drives absolutely fine - it’s a bit of an ecosystem inside, but who cares it still gets me from A to B when required. 
As for module production… I blame myself when I switch on the modular, and think about the energy and minerals it required to come into life. That’s the price of western civilisation custom made entertainment.  And for the PSU3: I only had a look at it because it’s go 5V. I might just go for the 5V adaptor for my PSU2 anyway. 
Another though, totally outside this group intended subject, is to the solar panels: it must be a while before you manage to offset the carbon footprint of their production (getting the Si crystals, the doping, the plasma slicing, etc…). 
Blabbering, Stop!! 
Thanks again for all the details.