Doepfer

Sorry guys, 

but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many people here:



Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated features announced. These 
features are forfilled. There were only very very few real technical bugs,
which reduced the announced features; as far as I know the owners of the
corresponing modules were informed personally and the repair was initiated
by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the standard behaviour of other
producers.


       What you all expect is the fix of (to your opinion 
                  annoying) lack of features.



To stay in the car comparison: You bought a Volkswagen, now you find, that
it does not include air conditioning and its instruments panel is made from
simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you expect Volkswagen AG to make a
Mercedes out of your beetle.

Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out of the A-100 modules. What
do you think Doepfer is? A social station?  A Doepfer module usually costs
less than the half of a MOTM module (I just compared the MOTM price list
with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of MOTM !!!). So i think you
can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of the technical features
and three quarter of the mechanical quality.



A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against it, but please stop
complaining about the fact that you were so stingy to afford only a
Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR IT.

If you don't have the money, then shut up!

Florian

thanks florian,
i totaly agree with you in the comparison between
MOTM(or other expensive modulars)and DOEPFER!!!
also,i think you are right about this endless
discussion about the upgrade of
regelwerk/shaltwerk...(but,please let's not reply to
each other with "shut up"and things like
that,o.k.??:-)...)
by the way,i don't have a MAQ,or regelwek,or
shaltwerk,so i can't say anything about
them,really....but as far as i know dieter,is a very
nice man,that cares about his customers,and does what
he does because he loves his work,not just to make
money...,o.k.??so,if he tells us that it's difficult
to upgrade the shaltwerk/regelwerk,he must be
right...after all, let's see how many people are ready
to pay these extra 300 euros for a hardware upgrade.if
you see that are more that 10(according to the polls),
then please address your requests directly to doepfer
or chris assall.)
AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DOEPFER ON HIS INTEREST TO
ALWAYS DEVELOP MORE NEW MODULES FOR THE A100!!!THAT'S
THE MAIN BEAUTY OF A MODULAR SYNTHESIZER...
AND,AGAIN,DOEPFER MODULES ARE GIVING EVERYONE MANY
FEATURES FOR A GOOD PRICE(a thing that you can't say
about MOTM,TECHNOSAURUS or SERGE and all those
overpriced modulars,o.k.???)
just think of one thing:if serge would release a
sensor-keyboard like the new one from deopfer(see the
doepfer site!!!)it would cost,at least,DOUBLE THE
PRICE(or triple???),and probably fewer people could
afford it!!!!!!!!!! 
that's my opinion.
keep on synthesizing,everyone...
synthfreak
BAKIS(not bakkis!!!) SIRROS.



--- Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@consol.de>
wrote:
> Sorry guys, 
> 
> but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many
> people here:
> 
> 
> 
> Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated
> features announced. These 
> features are forfilled. There were only very very
> few real technical bugs,
> which reduced the announced features; as far as I
> know the owners of the
> corresponing modules were informed personally and
> the repair was initiated
> by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the
> standard behaviour of other
> producers.
> 
> 
>        What you all expect is the fix of (to your
> opinion 
>                   annoying) lack of features.
> 
> 
> 
> To stay in the car comparison: You bought a
> Volkswagen, now you find, that
> it does not include air conditioning and its
> instruments panel is made from
> simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you expect
> Volkswagen AG to make a
> Mercedes out of your beetle.
> 
> Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out of
> the A-100 modules. What
> do you think Doepfer is? A social station?  A
> Doepfer module usually costs
> less than the half of a MOTM module (I just compared
> the MOTM price list
> with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of MOTM
> !!!). So i think you
> can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of
> the technical features
> and three quarter of the mechanical quality.
> 
> 
> 
> A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against it,
> but please stop
> complaining about the fact that you were so stingy
> to afford only a
> Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR IT.
> 
> If you don't have the money, then shut up!
> 
> Florian
> 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

> just think of one thing:if serge would release a
> sensor-keyboard like the new one from deopfer(see the
> doepfer site!!!



The problem is, it already exist in the Serge world;
http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm


The Doepfer looks just a little TOO much like the Serge for my comfort.....



Les Mizzell

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Some days you're the dog; 
some days you're the hydrant.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

HI LES,
WE HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS MATTER,haven't we??
yes,all modulars look a lot like the very first
one(the moog modular...;-)   )
my opinion is that this DOEPFER  sensor keyboard is
awesome!!!!and when i have the money i will buy two of
them!!!
synthfreak


 --- Les Mizzell <lesmizz@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > just think of one thing:if serge would release a
> > sensor-keyboard like the new one from deopfer(see
> the
> > doepfer site!!!
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is, it already exist in the Serge world;
> http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
> 
> 
> The Doepfer looks just a little TOO much like the
> Serge for my comfort.....
> 
> 
> 
> Les Mizzell
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Some days you're the dog; 
> some days you're the hydrant.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
> 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...> 
wrote:
> Sorry guys, 
> 
> but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many people here:
> 
> 
> 
> Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated features announced. 
These 
> features are forfilled. There were only very very few real 
technical bugs,
> which reduced the announced features;

have you actually read the reports and comments from the doepfer ez 
board forum? if so,how can you say that.


 as far as I know the owners of the
> corresponing modules were informed personally and the repair was 
initiated
> by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the standard behaviour 
of other
> producers.

try reading other synth groups and see how others praise the gear and 
service they recieved from said companies.


> 
> 
>        What you all expect is the fix of (to your opinion 
>                   annoying) lack of features.
>
 
practically every other sequencer out there does long notes or ties 
them together. is it too much to ask for? doepfer has 3 hardware 
sequencers that send nothing but 16th notes lengths. the gate time 
for extending note length doesn't do the trick. basically what have 
here is 3 different boxes which do the same thing. reminds me of 4 
fader boxes.at least one of them, especially the schaltwerk, it 
should have such a feature, considering all the features it has. not  
being able to tie notes together is a gross omission!

are telling me, that you would not want to have that function 
included on your machine. music is made up whole, half, and quarter 
notes and so on, not limited to 16th notes only.

> 
> To stay in the car comparison: You bought a Volkswagen, now you 
find, that
> it does not include air conditioning and its instruments panel is 
made from
> simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you expect Volkswagen AG 
to make a
> Mercedes out of your beetle.

in the case of the schaltwerk, i paid Mercedes money and received a 
Volkswagen beetle engine. do not confuse the issue  with A100 modules 
as you seem to be doing below. 

> Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out of the A-100 
modules. What
> do you think Doepfer is? A social station?  A Doepfer module 
usually costs
> less than the half of a MOTM module (I just compared the MOTM price 
list
> with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of MOTM !!!). So i 
think you
> can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of the technical 
features
> and three quarter of the mechanical quality.


hence , the reason i bought Doepfer A100 modular in the first place 
and not a Serge. every system offers different features at different 
prices.
> 
> 
> 
> A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against it, but please stop
> complaining about the fact that you were so stingy to afford only a
> Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR IT.

 just curious? What leads you to believe that I am stingy. i have 
spent , i would say quite a bit money, that could have gone to 
another manufacturer. so maybe i have the right ask for a few lines 
of code to have a function that should not have been such an oversite.

> 
> If you don't have the money, then shut up!

 i did and i want it to at least make sense musically speaking.
by the way, it does not bode well on you to write a statement like 
the one above.

RM

> 
> Florian

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...> 
wrote:
> Sorry guys, 
> 
> but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many people here:
> 
> 
> 
> Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated features announced. 
These 
> features are forfilled. There were only very very few real 
technical bugs,
> which reduced the announced features; as far as I know the owners 
of the
> corresponing modules were informed personally and the repair was 
initiated
> by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the standard behaviour 
of other
> producers.
> 
> 
>        What you all expect is the fix of (to your opinion 
>                   annoying) lack of features.
> 
> 
> 
> To stay in the car comparison: You bought a Volkswagen, now you 
find, that
> it does not include air conditioning and its instruments panel is 
made from
> simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you expect Volkswagen AG 
to make a
> Mercedes out of your beetle.
> 
> Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out of the A-100 
modules. What
> do you think Doepfer is? A social station?  A Doepfer module 
usually costs
> less than the half of a MOTM module (I just compared the MOTM price 
list
> with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of MOTM !!!). So i 
think you
> can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of the technical 
features
> and three quarter of the mechanical quality.
> 
> 
> 
> A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against it, but please stop
> complaining about the fact that you were so stingy to afford only a
> Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR IT.
> 
> If you don't have the money, then shut up!
> 
> Florian


Strong words. But guess what? Some of us DO have the money. My 
personal decision to go with Doepfer was due to it being the main new 
modular company available at the time (1998). Currently I own also 
Serge, MOTM, Synthesizers.com, Analogue Systems and Blacet. Why do I 
keep my Doepfer? Because there's something very distinctive about its 
sound that I love, and which I don't get from any of the other 
systems. Do this: do a comparison test between the Serge oscillators 
and the Doepfer ones. The Doeph just sizzle!! You get way more bright 
side frequencies from them. And what about those wonderful EG's 
(especially the A-141)? Individual pots for CV of each stage. Wow. 
And, in my opinion, the A-127 is THE BEST resonator in any modular 
currently available. Period. And so I think: this thing is sooo close 
to being perfect!! I wish the jacks were better. And I would PAY FOR 
THE IMPROVEMENT, OF COURSE!! I have no issues with the sequencers. My 
musical tastes span only stuff that is played with fingers, on a 
keyboard (the MAQ 16/3 is a nifty little toy that I use mostly to 
play drum loops from a Clavia Nord rack, to humor my teenage 
children. Honest.....). Frankly, I would not mind if the mighty 
Doepfer were more expensive, as long as the perpetually-mentioned 
MALFUNCTIONS (NOT MISSING FEATURES, MIND YOU!! TO ME, THE DOEPFER HAS 
MORE FEATURES PER MODULE THAN ANY OTHER BRAND, AND THE SOUND IS 
SUPERB!!!!)were eliminated. Yes, it would be a logistic problem: How 
to solve it in a financially-reasonable way (we do not want the 
company to go broke!!). Offer upgrades for those who already own 
systems. CHARGE MONEY FOR THEM. We are cool about it. Yes, we bought 
a VW, but if we want to hotrod it to a Mercedes, give us the option! 
And then, prospectively, implement the improvements on all future 
batches of modules, and CHARGE MORE FOR THEM!! Whoever has a serious, 
sensible interest in modular synthesis, with a discriminating taste, 
will realize that the Doeph is the way to go! This will also help 
maintain a certain standard of quality among the different brands, 
which will ultimately benefit the consumer. Let's not allow a 
degradation in the quality of these instruments to take place, for 
then they will truly become a passing fad.
cuari

Hi cuari

> Yes, we bought a VW, but if we want to hotrod it to a Mercedes,
> give us the option!
VW won't do it. But for cars there are a lot of tuning garages around the
world, that will hotrod the beetle. Unfortunately this is not true for
modular systems. So there is nothing left but do it on your own - or find
some technician who will do it for you.

It is simple and clear: VW will continue building cars in their class. 
And I think the same is valid for Doepfer and his modular system.

Florian

>thanks florian,
>i totaly agree with you in the comparison between
>MOTM(or other expensive modulars)and DOEPFER!!!
>also,i think you are right about this endless
>discussion about the upgrade of
>regelwerk/shaltwerk...


sorry to say it, but you are both wrong on that issue.
customer support and upgrading is an issue. they do 
control my A100 system. 


>(but,please let's not reply to
>each other with "shut up"and things like
>that,o.k.??:-)...)
 

i totally agree with you on that one. let's save the 
kindergarden comments for the schoolyard. this group 
is about debate, thought and discussion. let's focus 
on the issues at hand. they might not be useful to you ,but to others 
they matter, so keep an open mind.


>by the way,i don't have a MAQ,or regelwek,or
>shaltwerk,so i can't say anything about
>them,really....

curious? what do you use to control your A100?
using an A155 does only monophonic lines. what happens when you want 
to do more one? what do you do when you to chain multiple phrases 
together?  what do you do when you want to play a melody over a nice 
liquid bass line? what happens when you want to save them, so you can 
work on them the next day? here is where the MAQ, Regelwerk and the 
Schaltwerk come into play. all 3 of them send only 16th note 
lenghths.not musically creative or functional unless all you are 
looking is repetitive 16th notes all day long. by having the 
possibility to tie notes together you will be able to do whole notes, 
half notes...etc.
so the door should not be shut and locked to those want to use their 
sequencers that way.


>but as far as i know dieter,is a very
>nice man,

I never discussed or mentioned anything about his character.



>that cares about his customers,


I am sure he cares about his customers, he should care a little more 
about customers who voice their opinions about certain features that 
need to be added to their gear. the note tie issue is a monumental 
lack of forsight. that should have been one of the first arguments 
when they were planning the Schaltwerk. i mean the the TB-303 did it 
with an older processor. so there is no excuse. if he really cared a 
lot, this issue would not have been on the back burner for the last 5 
years.  they should do something about it in the very near future 
i.e. now. it will send a clear message that he really cares about 
their products and send a positive note on the state of things to 
come and boost the image of his company. i hope you never have the 
sinking feeling i get when i look in dismay at my schaltwerk in the 
closet , hoping for something to happen ever.


>and does what >he does >because he loves his work,not >just to make 
money...,o.k.??

i am sure he does, that's why he is the synth building business.


>so,if he tells us that it's difficult
>to upgrade the shaltwerk/regelwerk,he must be
>right...after all,  

how diffcult can it really be. they plan, design, prototype and build 
PCB's to put into cases or face plates for a living. pain in the ass, 
yes, difficult no. difficult is squeezing a square peg into a hole of 
the same diameter. most of the code for the machine is already 
written,so a little more coding will do the trick. seems to me it's 
just a memory and faster cpu issue that should be solved fairly 
quickly. this should be a piece of cake
 




let's see how many people are ready
>to pay these extra 300 euros for a hardware upgrade.

sorry, 300 or 400  euros isn't that the figurative price for the new 
touch sensor keyboard? i don't see 25 pots, 88 1/8" phone jacks and 
29 led's going into the the proposed upgrade. those items are 
expensive. on top of that no drilling to the actual cases and face 
plates. we are talking about a stuffed PCB, re-connect a few wires 
and writing more code to implement it from the current OS.

i am willing to pay a fair price for the upgrade. i think the upgrade 
should be done for  the parts, plus labour and a small mark-up, say 
10% to 20% for the effort. the price for the upgrade should be 
distributed between Doepfer,the existing and future customers. should 
we take the hit for the boards that are going the wayside? i think 
parts and labour should be factored in the equation but definitely 
not the mark- up attached to them. that seems pretty fair i would 
say. 



>if
>you see that are more that 10(according to the polls),
>then please address your requests directly to doepfer
>or chris assall.) 


i think the discussion should be kept in this group, so people can 
see what is actually going to happen. second, it can really help 
doepfer expose their effort and it might lead to more sales.



>AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DOEPFER ON HIS INTEREST TO
>ALWAYS DEVELOP MORE NEW MODULES FOR THE A100!!!

i agree, but not to the detriment of other products which definitely 
need a helping hand and upgrades to realize their full potential and 
become the shining stars they deserve to to be. the MAQ, Regelwerk, 
Schaltwerk are vital to the control of the A100. if they were not, 
they would not have been built in the place. i believe Doepfer made 
the MAQ  before the A100, so it seems like a valid product.this will 
solidify the image of Doepfer Musikelektronik in the synth world and 
bring more sales in the process. remember nothing sells a product 
better then word of mouth. for now, mum's the word until i see an 
effort on their part. 

regards and let's keep an open mind,
RM 

p.s. i am ready to spend more money your way, so make an effort and i 
will keep adding polyphony to my system. by the way those touch 
sensor keyboards do look appealing, i may have to bend the rules a 
little and buy one right away. :) count me in.

THAT'S
>THE MAIN BEAUTY OF A MODULAR SYNTHESIZER...
>AND,AGAIN,DOEPFER MODULES ARE GIVING EVERYONE MANY
>FEATURES FOR A GOOD PRICE(a thing that you can't say
>about MOTM,TECHNOSAURUS or SERGE and all those
>overpriced modulars,o.k.???)
>just think of one thing:if serge would release a
>sensor-keyboard like the new one from deopfer(see the
>doepfer site!!!)it would cost,at least,DOUBLE THE
>PRICE(or triple???),and probably fewer people could
>afford it!!!!!!!!!! 
>that's my opinion.
>keep on synthesizing,everyone...
>synthfreak
>BAKIS(not bakkis!!!) SIRROS. 

sorry about the misprint of your name.



--- Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...>
wrote:
> Sorry guys, 
> 
> but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many
> people here:
> 
> 
> 
> Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated
> features announced. These 
> features are forfilled. There were only very very
> few real technical bugs,
> which reduced the announced features; as far as I
> know the owners of the
> corresponing modules were informed personally and
> the repair was initiated
> by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the
> standard behaviour of other
> producers.
> 
> 
> What you all expect is the fix of (to your
> opinion 
> annoying) lack of features.
> 
> 
> 
> To stay in the car comparison: You bought a
> Volkswagen, now you find, that
> it does not include air conditioning and its
> instruments panel is made from
> simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you expect
> Volkswagen AG to make a
> Mercedes out of your beetle.
> 
> Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out of
> the A-100 modules. What
> do you think Doepfer is? A social station? A
> Doepfer module usually costs
> less than the half of a MOTM module (I just compared
> the MOTM price list
> with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of MOTM
> !!!). So i think you
> can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of
> the technical features
> and three quarter of the mechanical quality.
> 
> 
> 
> A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against it,
> but please stop
> complaining about the fact that you were so stingy
> to afford only a
> Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR IT.
> 
> If you don't have the money, then shut up!
> 
> Florian
> 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

______

>thanks florian,
>i totaly agree with you in the comparison between
>MOTM(or other expensive modulars)and DOEPFER!!!
>also,i think you are right about this endless
>discussion about the upgrade of
>regelwerk/shaltwerk...


sorry to say it, but you are both wrong on that issue.
customer support and upgrading is an issue. they do 
control my A100 system. 


>(but,please let's not reply to
>each other with "shut up"and things like
>that,o.k.??:-)...)
 

i totally agree with you on that one. let's save the 
kindergarden comments for the schoolyard. this group 
is about debate, thought and discussion. let's focus 
on the issues at hand. they might be to you , so keep
an open mind.


>by the way,i don't have a MAQ,or regelwek,or
>shaltwerk,so i can't say anything about
>them,really....

curious? what do you use to control your A100?
using an A155 does only monophonic lines. what happens when you want 
to do more one? what do you do when you to chain multiple phrases 
together?  what do you do when you want to play a melody over a nice 
liquid bass line ?what happens when you want to save them, so you can 
on it the next day? here is where the MAQ, Regelwerk and the 
Schaltwerk come to play. all 3 of them send only 16th note 
lenghths.not musically creative or functional unless all you are 
looking is repetitive 16th notes all day long. by having the 
possibility to tie notes together you will be able to do whole notes, 
half notes...etc.
so the door should not be shut and locked to those want to use their 
sequencers that way.


>but as far as i know dieter,is a very
>nice man,

I never discussed or mentioned anything about his character.



>that cares about his customers,


I am sure he cares about his customers, he should care a little more 
about customers who voice their opinions about certain features that 
need to be added to their gear. the note tie issue is a monumental 
lack of forsight. that should have been one of the first arguments 
when they were planning the Schaltwerk. i mean the the TB-303 did it 
with an older processor. so there is no excuse. if he really cared a 
lot, this issue would not have been on the back burner for the last 5 
years.  they should do something about it in the very near future 
i.e. now. it will send a clear message that he really cares about 
their products and send a positive note on the state of things to 
come and boost the image of his company. i hope you never have the 
sinking feeling i get when i look in dismay at my schaltwerk in the 
closet , hoping for something to happen ever.


>and does what >he does >because he loves his work,not >just to make 
money...,o.k.??

i am sure he does, that's why he is the synth building business.


>so,if he tells us that it's difficult
>to upgrade the shaltwerk/regelwerk,he must be
>right...after all,  

how diffcult can it really be. they plan, design, prototype and build 
PCB's to put into cases or face plates for a living. pain in the ass, 
yes, difficult no. difficult is squeezing a square peg into a hole of 
the same diameter. most of the code for the machine is already 
written,so a little more coding will do the trick. seems to me it's 
just a memory and faster cpu issue that should be solved fairly 
quickly. this should be a piece of cake
 




let's see how many people are ready
>to pay these extra 300 euros for a hardware upgrade.

sorry, 300 or 400  euros isn't that the figurative price for the new 
touch sensor keyboard? i don't see 25 pots, 88 1/8" phone jacks and 
29 led's going into the the proposed upgrade. those items are 
expensive. on top of that no drilling to the actual cases and face 
plates. we are talking about a stuffed PCB, re-connect a few wires 
and writing more code to implement it to the current OS.

i am willing to pay a fair price for the upgrade. i think the upgrade 
should be done for  the parts, plus labour and a small mark-up, say 
10% to 20% for the effort. the price for the upgrade should be 
distributed between Doepfer,the existing and future customers. should 
we take the hit for the boards that are going the wayside? i think 
parts and labour should be factored in the equation but definitely 
not the mark- up attached to them. that seems pretty fair i would 
say. 



>if
>you see that are more that 10(according to the polls),
>then please address your requests directly to doepfer
>or chris assall.) 


i think the discussion should be kept in this group, so people can 
see what is actually going to happen. second, it can really help 
doepfer expose their effort and it might lead more sales.



>AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DOEPFER ON HIS INTEREST TO
>ALWAYS DEVELOP MORE NEW MODULES FOR THE A100!!!

i agree, but not to the detriment of other products which definitely 
need a helping hand and upgrades to realize their full potential and 
become the shining stars they to to be. the MAQ, Regelwerk, 
Schaltwerk are vital to the control of the A100. if they were not 
they would not have been built in the place. this will solidify the 
image of Doepfer Musikelektronik in the synth world and bring more 
sales in the process. remember nothing sells a product then word of 
mouth. for now, mum's the word until i see an effort on their part. 

regards and let's keep an open mind,
RM 

p.s. i am ready to spend more money with your company. when i see an 
effort on your part, i will add more polyphony to my system. by the 
way those touch sensor keyboards do look appealing. i think i may 
bend the rules a little and buy as soon they come out.:) count in for 
one to start.
THAT'S
>THE MAIN BEAUTY OF A MODULAR SYNTHESIZER...
>AND,AGAIN,DOEPFER MODULES ARE GIVING EVERYONE MANY
>FEATURES FOR A GOOD PRICE(a thing that you can't say
>about MOTM,TECHNOSAURUS or SERGE and all those
>overpriced modulars,o.k.???)
>just think of one thing:if serge would release a
>sensor-keyboard like the new one from deopfer(see the
>doepfer site!!!)it would cost,at least,DOUBLE THE
>PRICE(or triple???),and probably fewer people could
>afford it!!!!!!!!!! 
>that's my opinion.
>keep on synthesizing,everyone...
>synthfreak
>BAKIS(not bakkis!!!) SIRROS. 

sorry about the misprint of your name.



--- Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...>
wrote:
> Sorry guys, 
> 
> but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many
> people here:
> 
> 
> 
> Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated
> features announced. These 
> features are forfilled. There were only very very
> few real technical bugs,
> which reduced the announced features; as far as I
> know the owners of the
> corresponing modules were informed personally and
> the repair was initiated
> by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the
> standard behaviour of other
> producers.
> 
> 
> What you all expect is the fix of (to your
> opinion 
> annoying) lack of features.
> 
> 
> 
> To stay in the car comparison: You bought a
> Volkswagen, now you find, that
> it does not include air conditioning and its
> instruments panel is made from
> simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you expect
> Volkswagen AG to make a
> Mercedes out of your beetle.
> 
> Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out of
> the A-100 modules. What
> do you think Doepfer is? A social station? A
> Doepfer module usually costs
> less than the half of a MOTM module (I just compared
> the MOTM price list
> with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of MOTM
> !!!). So i think you
> can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of
> the technical features
> and three quarter of the mechanical quality.
> 
> 
> 
> A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against it,
> but please stop
> complaining about the fact that you were so stingy
> to afford only a
> Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR IT.
> 
> If you don't have the money, then shut up!
> 
> Florian
> 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

sorry cuari,
 but ,as i don't have a large income,i prefer the
doepfer modules to be cheap,(by that ,i mean i don't
care if the modules are build like a tank,i am not
gonna use them as battle weapons,i prefer to pay less
money even if i don't have the best quality knobs or
metal frontplates....).
that's my opinion....
synthfreak


--- cuari7 <medejd@ttuhsc.edu> wrote:
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander
> <Florian.Anwander@c...> 
> wrote:
> > Sorry guys, 
> > 
> > but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many
> people here:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated
> features announced. 
> These 
> > features are forfilled. There were only very very
> few real 
> technical bugs,
> > which reduced the announced features; as far as I
> know the owners 
> of the
> > corresponing modules were informed personally and
> the repair was 
> initiated
> > by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the
> standard behaviour 
> of other
> > producers.
> > 
> > 
> >        What you all expect is the fix of (to your
> opinion 
> >                   annoying) lack of features.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To stay in the car comparison: You bought a
> Volkswagen, now you 
> find, that
> > it does not include air conditioning and its
> instruments panel is 
> made from
> > simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you
> expect Volkswagen AG 
> to make a
> > Mercedes out of your beetle.
> > 
> > Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out
> of the A-100 
> modules. What
> > do you think Doepfer is? A social station?  A
> Doepfer module 
> usually costs
> > less than the half of a MOTM module (I just
> compared the MOTM price 
> list
> > with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of
> MOTM !!!). So i 
> think you
> > can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of
> the technical 
> features
> > and three quarter of the mechanical quality.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against
> it, but please stop
> > complaining about the fact that you were so stingy
> to afford only a
> > Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR
> IT.
> > 
> > If you don't have the money, then shut up!
> > 
> > Florian
> 
> 
> Strong words. But guess what? Some of us DO have the
> money. My 
> personal decision to go with Doepfer was due to it
> being the main new 
> modular company available at the time (1998).
> Currently I own also 
> Serge, MOTM, Synthesizers.com, Analogue Systems and
> Blacet. Why do I 
> keep my Doepfer? Because there's something very
> distinctive about its 
> sound that I love, and which I don't get from any of
> the other 
> systems. Do this: do a comparison test between the
> Serge oscillators 
> and the Doepfer ones. The Doeph just sizzle!! You
> get way more bright 
> side frequencies from them. And what about those
> wonderful EG's 
> (especially the A-141)? Individual pots for CV of
> each stage. Wow. 
> And, in my opinion, the A-127 is THE BEST resonator
> in any modular 
> currently available. Period. And so I think: this
> thing is sooo close 
> to being perfect!! I wish the jacks were better. And
> I would PAY FOR 
> THE IMPROVEMENT, OF COURSE!! I have no issues with
> the sequencers. My 
> musical tastes span only stuff that is played with
> fingers, on a 
> keyboard (the MAQ 16/3 is a nifty little toy that I
> use mostly to 
> play drum loops from a Clavia Nord rack, to humor my
> teenage 
> children. Honest.....). Frankly, I would not mind if
> the mighty 
> Doepfer were more expensive, as long as the
> perpetually-mentioned 
> MALFUNCTIONS (NOT MISSING FEATURES, MIND YOU!! TO
> ME, THE DOEPFER HAS 
> MORE FEATURES PER MODULE THAN ANY OTHER BRAND, AND
> THE SOUND IS 
> SUPERB!!!!)were eliminated. Yes, it would be a
> logistic problem: How 
> to solve it in a financially-reasonable way (we do
> not want the 
> company to go broke!!). Offer upgrades for those who
> already own 
> systems. CHARGE MONEY FOR THEM. We are cool about
> it. Yes, we bought 
> a VW, but if we want to hotrod it to a Mercedes,
> give us the option! 
> And then, prospectively, implement the improvements
> on all future 
> batches of modules, and CHARGE MORE FOR THEM!!
> Whoever has a serious, 
> sensible interest in modular synthesis, with a
> discriminating taste, 
> will realize that the Doeph is the way to go! This
> will also help 
> maintain a certain standard of quality among the
> different brands, 
> which will ultimately benefit the consumer. Let's
> not allow a 
> degradation in the quality of these instruments to
> take place, for 
> then they will truly become a passing fad.
> cuari
> 
> 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

so,how i control my a100???
i use 4 a155's.this way i can have 8 or 16 step
sequences... and in combination to other cv cources i
can have endlessly evolving sequences...i,also have a
lot of other modules(over 100...)i don't feel the need
of a shaltwerk or a MAQ ,but if i had the extra money
i would buy a MAQ and a shaltwerk.and what do i do
when i want patterns and all these??i use my midi
sequencer(with a cv/gate converter).as for longer
notes?? by the right triggers/gates settings and by
using the s/h circuit that is in the a155 you can
achieve that...as for changing tempo??use a
vc-lfo!!!(you can't do this with other
sequencers,right??)as for more complex trigger/gates
patterns??use an a162 trigger delay...as for midi,i
use an a190(for cv/gate/midi sync) and a kenton
pro-2000 for 5 more cv/gate channels.that way i have a
6 multitimbral system that can do almost
everything!!!!!!
i really believe that the limit is your imagination
when you use a large modular system,right??
i only have 2 A110's and 4 A111's,though...but i will
have more in the very near future...and the new sensor
keyboard/sequencer and the new logic module so i can
have even more complex sequences...and,and,and...
now let's see...could i ever build such a system using
MOTM,SERGE or TECHNOSAURUS modules???NO WAY!!!!!if i
ever could find the money for this i
would,rather,prefer to expand my doepfer system to
monster dimensions!!!then i would buy some modules of
the former expensive companies or even build a modest
system of these modules to ACCOMPANY my huge doepfer
a100 system...

synthfreak


--- ringmod45 <ringmod45@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >thanks florian,
> >i totaly agree with you in the comparison between
> >MOTM(or other expensive modulars)and DOEPFER!!!
> >also,i think you are right about this endless
> >discussion about the upgrade of
> >regelwerk/shaltwerk...
> 
> 
> sorry to say it, but you are both wrong on that
> issue.
> customer support and upgrading is an issue. they do 
> control my A100 system. 
> 
> 
> >(but,please let's not reply to
> >each other with "shut up"and things like
> >that,o.k.??:-)...)
>  
> 
> i totally agree with you on that one. let's save the
> 
> kindergarden comments for the schoolyard. this group
> 
> is about debate, thought and discussion. let's focus
> 
> on the issues at hand. they might not be useful to
> you ,but to others 
> they matter, so keep an open mind.
> 
> 
> >by the way,i don't have a MAQ,or regelwek,or
> >shaltwerk,so i can't say anything about
> >them,really....
> 
> curious? what do you use to control your A100?
> using an A155 does only monophonic lines. what
> happens when you want 
> to do more one? what do you do when you to chain
> multiple phrases 
> together?  what do you do when you want to play a
> melody over a nice 
> liquid bass line? what happens when you want to save
> them, so you can 
> work on them the next day? here is where the MAQ,
> Regelwerk and the 
> Schaltwerk come into play. all 3 of them send only
> 16th note 
> lenghths.not musically creative or functional unless
> all you are 
> looking is repetitive 16th notes all day long. by
> having the 
> possibility to tie notes together you will be able
> to do whole notes, 
> half notes...etc.
> so the door should not be shut and locked to those
> want to use their 
> sequencers that way.
> 
> 
> >but as far as i know dieter,is a very
> >nice man,
> 
> I never discussed or mentioned anything about his
> character.
> 
> 
> 
> >that cares about his customers,
> 
> 
> I am sure he cares about his customers, he should
> care a little more 
> about customers who voice their opinions about
> certain features that 
> need to be added to their gear. the note tie issue
> is a monumental 
> lack of forsight. that should have been one of the
> first arguments 
> when they were planning the Schaltwerk. i mean the
> the TB-303 did it 
> with an older processor. so there is no excuse. if
> he really cared a 
> lot, this issue would not have been on the back
> burner for the last 5 
> years.  they should do something about it in the
> very near future 
> i.e. now. it will send a clear message that he
> really cares about 
> their products and send a positive note on the state
> of things to 
> come and boost the image of his company. i hope you
> never have the 
> sinking feeling i get when i look in dismay at my
> schaltwerk in the 
> closet , hoping for something to happen ever.
> 
> 
> >and does what >he does >because he loves his
> work,not >just to make 
> money...,o.k.??
> 
> i am sure he does, that's why he is the synth
> building business.
> 
> 
> >so,if he tells us that it's difficult
> >to upgrade the shaltwerk/regelwerk,he must be
> >right...after all,  
> 
> how diffcult can it really be. they plan, design,
> prototype and build 
> PCB's to put into cases or face plates for a living.
> pain in the ass, 
> yes, difficult no. difficult is squeezing a square
> peg into a hole of 
> the same diameter. most of the code for the machine
> is already 
> written,so a little more coding will do the trick.
> seems to me it's 
> just a memory and faster cpu issue that should be
> solved fairly 
> quickly. this should be a piece of cake
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> let's see how many people are ready
> >to pay these extra 300 euros for a hardware
> upgrade.
> 
> sorry, 300 or 400  euros isn't that the figurative
> price for the new 
> touch sensor keyboard? i don't see 25 pots, 88 1/8"
> phone jacks and 
> 29 led's going into the the proposed upgrade. those
> items are 
> expensive. on top of that no drilling to the actual
> cases and face 
> plates. we are talking about a stuffed PCB,
> re-connect a few wires 
> and writing more code to implement it from the
> current OS.
> 
> i am willing to pay a fair price for the upgrade. i
> think the upgrade 
> should be done for  the parts, plus labour and a
> small mark-up, say 
> 10% to 20% for the effort. the price for the upgrade
> should be 
> distributed between Doepfer,the existing and future
> customers. should 
> we take the hit for the boards that are going the
> wayside? i think 
> parts and labour should be factored in the equation
> but definitely 
> not the mark- up attached to them. that seems pretty
> fair i would 
> say. 
> 
> 
> 
> >if
> >you see that are more that 10(according to the
> polls),
> >then please address your requests directly to
> doepfer
> >or chris assall.) 
> 
> 
> i think the discussion should be kept in this group,
> so people can 
> see what is actually going to happen. second, it can
> really help 
> doepfer expose their effort and it might lead to
> more sales.
> 
> 
> 
> >AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DOEPFER ON HIS INTEREST TO
> >ALWAYS DEVELOP MORE NEW MODULES FOR THE A100!!!
> 
> i agree, but not to the detriment of other products
> which definitely 
> need a helping hand and upgrades to realize their
> full potential and 
> become the shining stars they deserve to to be. the
> MAQ, Regelwerk, 
> Schaltwerk are vital to the control of the A100. if
> they were not, 
> they would not have been built in the place. i
> believe Doepfer made 
> the MAQ  before the A100, so it seems like a valid
> product.this will 
> solidify the image of Doepfer Musikelektronik in the
> synth world and 
> bring more sales in the process. remember nothing
> sells a product 
> better then word of mouth. for now, mum's the word
> until i see an 
> 
=== message truncated ===


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:
> sorry cuari,
>  but ,as i don't have a large income,i prefer the
> doepfer modules to be cheap,(by that ,i mean i don't
> care if the modules are build like a tank,i am not
> gonna use them as battle weapons,i prefer to pay less
> money even if i don't have the best quality knobs or
> metal frontplates....).
> that's my opinion....
> synthfreak



I don't want to use them as weapons either. I just want them to do 
what is expected from them, and to do it for a long time. Simple as 
that. Again, read my previous entries, Bakis: I LOVE MY DOEPFER. But 
it just kills me that such a wonderful-sounding (and handsome, too!) 
instrument has such poor-quality jacks! I have no problems with the 
metal plates (they are beautiful!), and the knobs, although of an 
ugly color, can easily be changed or painted different colors. 
Another thing that makes me partial to Doepfer is its size: smaller, 
more compact, easier to access. A lot of guys find the front panels 
too crowded and awkward, but to me, they are just fine. And the size 
of my system can attest to my devotion for the Mighty D: 12 rows of 
modules, 20 vco's, 20 filters, 22 EG's, 8 vca's, etc.. I can make it 
8-voice polyphonic if I want it (overkill. Not recommended). Bottom 
line, my unbiased, personal opinion about this baby is mostly a 
positive one, but like I said before, an OPTIONAL upgrade of its 
jacks to higher-quality ones would be most welcome.
Now, going to another topic: that touch keyboard looks just superb. 
Let's root for it, guys!!
cuari

> 
> 
> --- cuari7 <medejd@t...> wrote:
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander
> > <Florian.Anwander@c...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Sorry guys, 
> > > 
> > > but this is an ugly reply to the demands of many
> > people here:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Doepfer offers and sells modules with dedicated
> > features announced. 
> > These 
> > > features are forfilled. There were only very very
> > few real 
> > technical bugs,
> > > which reduced the announced features; as far as I
> > know the owners 
> > of the
> > > corresponing modules were informed personally and
> > the repair was 
> > initiated
> > > by Doepfer. This is more than the usual of the
> > standard behaviour 
> > of other
> > > producers.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >        What you all expect is the fix of (to your
> > opinion 
> > >                   annoying) lack of features.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To stay in the car comparison: You bought a
> > Volkswagen, now you 
> > find, that
> > > it does not include air conditioning and its
> > instruments panel is 
> > made from
> > > simple plastic instead of maple wood. So you
> > expect Volkswagen AG 
> > to make a
> > > Mercedes out of your beetle.
> > > 
> > > Now you want Doepfer to make a MOTM-Standard out
> > of the A-100 
> > modules. What
> > > do you think Doepfer is? A social station?  A
> > Doepfer module 
> > usually costs
> > > less than the half of a MOTM module (I just
> > compared the MOTM price 
> > list
> > > with Doepfers prices: often only 25% to 35% of
> > MOTM !!!). So i 
> > think you
> > > can be DAMNED LUCKY that it provides 90 percent of
> > the technical 
> > features
> > > and three quarter of the mechanical quality.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > A Mercedes is a nice car. Nothing to say against
> > it, but please stop
> > > complaining about the fact that you were so stingy
> > to afford only a
> > > Volkswagen. IF YOU WANT A MERCEDES, THEN PAY FOR
> > IT.
> > > 
> > > If you don't have the money, then shut up!
> > > 
> > > Florian
> > 
> > 
> > Strong words. But guess what? Some of us DO have the
> > money. My 
> > personal decision to go with Doepfer was due to it
> > being the main new 
> > modular company available at the time (1998).
> > Currently I own also 
> > Serge, MOTM, Synthesizers.com, Analogue Systems and
> > Blacet. Why do I 
> > keep my Doepfer? Because there's something very
> > distinctive about its 
> > sound that I love, and which I don't get from any of
> > the other 
> > systems. Do this: do a comparison test between the
> > Serge oscillators 
> > and the Doepfer ones. The Doeph just sizzle!! You
> > get way more bright 
> > side frequencies from them. And what about those
> > wonderful EG's 
> > (especially the A-141)? Individual pots for CV of
> > each stage. Wow. 
> > And, in my opinion, the A-127 is THE BEST resonator
> > in any modular 
> > currently available. Period. And so I think: this
> > thing is sooo close 
> > to being perfect!! I wish the jacks were better. And
> > I would PAY FOR 
> > THE IMPROVEMENT, OF COURSE!! I have no issues with
> > the sequencers. My 
> > musical tastes span only stuff that is played with
> > fingers, on a 
> > keyboard (the MAQ 16/3 is a nifty little toy that I
> > use mostly to 
> > play drum loops from a Clavia Nord rack, to humor my
> > teenage 
> > children. Honest.....). Frankly, I would not mind if
> > the mighty 
> > Doepfer were more expensive, as long as the
> > perpetually-mentioned 
> > MALFUNCTIONS (NOT MISSING FEATURES, MIND YOU!! TO
> > ME, THE DOEPFER HAS 
> > MORE FEATURES PER MODULE THAN ANY OTHER BRAND, AND
> > THE SOUND IS 
> > SUPERB!!!!)were eliminated. Yes, it would be a
> > logistic problem: How 
> > to solve it in a financially-reasonable way (we do
> > not want the 
> > company to go broke!!). Offer upgrades for those who
> > already own 
> > systems. CHARGE MONEY FOR THEM. We are cool about
> > it. Yes, we bought 
> > a VW, but if we want to hotrod it to a Mercedes,
> > give us the option! 
> > And then, prospectively, implement the improvements
> > on all future 
> > batches of modules, and CHARGE MORE FOR THEM!!
> > Whoever has a serious, 
> > sensible interest in modular synthesis, with a
> > discriminating taste, 
> > will realize that the Doeph is the way to go! This
> > will also help 
> > maintain a certain standard of quality among the
> > different brands, 
> > which will ultimately benefit the consumer. Let's
> > not allow a 
> > degradation in the quality of these instruments to
> > take place, for 
> > then they will truly become a passing fad.
> > cuari
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> synthfreak(parallel worlds)
> athens-greece
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com