Fairlight-CMI

... for those who thought the price might drop down... watch this !

-> http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300160469877

Regards.

      Laurent.

For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II owners,
I entreat you to answer a question of mine. 
Awhile back the question came back what early
sampler sounds the closest to the fairlight and
the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage.  i bought
one and it was kind of similar to my ears. 
though it didn't seem to quite have the same
powerful VCA, and envelopes.

I think I love the Fairlight most not for the
samples but rather for it's additive synthesis
engine, those beautiful Harmonic additive(FM
sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044 VCF's is so
gorgous.

Anyway, does the additive synthesis section of
the fairlight sound close to anything else you
have tried?  From my ears the casio cz series
does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
especially using a little EQ and running the
sound through the analog chorus section on my
casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind of*
like a VCF.  

Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of course
I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.

Anything else out there.

Micah

y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

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M.J.B. a écrit :
> 
> 
> For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II owners,
> I entreat you to answer a question of mine.
> Awhile back the question came back what early
> sampler sounds the closest to the fairlight and
> the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage. i bought
> one and it was kind of similar to my ears.
> though it didn't seem to quite have the same
> powerful VCA, and envelopes.
> 
> I think I love the Fairlight most not for the
> samples but rather for it's additive synthesis
> engine, those beautiful Harmonic additive(FM
> sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044 VCF's is so
> gorgous.
> 
> Anyway, does the additive synthesis section of
> the fairlight sound close to anything else you
> have tried? From my ears the casio cz series
> does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
> especially using a little EQ and running the
> sound through the analog chorus section on my
> casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind of*
> like a VCF.
> 
> Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of course
> I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.
> 
> Anything else out there.
> 
> Micah
> 
> y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

Why also compare all synth ?

Fairlight is Fairlight...
Ned is Ned...
Casio is Casio !

it is all ;)

> Why also compare all synth ?
> 
> Fairlight is Fairlight...
> Ned is Ned...
> Casio is Casio !
> 
> it is all ;)

because fairlight = $3000

casio cz = $100

Do you have a fairlight?  Wonderful.  Most do
not, so I'm looking for an alternative.

Kawai is not "musical" to my ears and is dead
when it comes to sound presense.  Yamaha DX7 is
too harsh and not as sweet as the CMI.  I still
think casio cz is best to imitate the fairlight.

any other suggestions?

micah


--- Jean-Bernard EMOND <jbemond@free.fr> wrote:

> M.J.B. a écrit :
> > 
> > 
> > For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II
> owners,
> > I entreat you to answer a question of mine.
> > Awhile back the question came back what early
> > sampler sounds the closest to the fairlight
> and
> > the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage. i
> bought
> > one and it was kind of similar to my ears.
> > though it didn't seem to quite have the same
> > powerful VCA, and envelopes.
> > 
> > I think I love the Fairlight most not for the
> > samples but rather for it's additive
> synthesis
> > engine, those beautiful Harmonic additive(FM
> > sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044 VCF's
> is so
> > gorgous.
> > 
> > Anyway, does the additive synthesis section
> of
> > the fairlight sound close to anything else
> you
> > have tried? From my ears the casio cz series
> > does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
> > especially using a little EQ and running the
> > sound through the analog chorus section on my
> > casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind of*
> > like a VCF.
> > 
> > Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of
> course
> > I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.
> > 
> > Anything else out there.
> > 
> > Micah
> > 
> > y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
> 
> Why also compare all synth ?
> 
> Fairlight is Fairlight...
> Ned is Ned...
> Casio is Casio !
> 
> it is all ;)
> 
> 
> 


y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

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Le 23 oct. 07 à 22:47, M.J.B. a écrit :

> > Why also compare all synth ?
> >
> > Fairlight is Fairlight...
> > Ned is Ned...
> > Casio is Casio !
> >
> > it is all ;)
>
> because fairlight = $3000
>
> casio cz = $100
>
> Do you have a fairlight? Wonderful. Most do
> not, so I'm looking for an alternative.
Yes, I have one Fairlight CMI IIx, one Ned Synclavier I and one  
Synclavier II, and also other synth's and in old time also one Kawai  
K1 II ;)

I think all synths and in general all sound instrument are  
interesting...

The synth's sound is not the only part of the sound, processing  
(analog or digital) are very important !

For me for imitate the Fairlight CMI the best reponse is Yamaha TX16W  
(12 bits) ;)

JB

>
> Kawai is not "musical" to my ears and is dead
> when it comes to sound presense. Yamaha DX7 is
> too harsh and not as sweet as the CMI. I still
> think casio cz is best to imitate the fairlight.
>
> any other suggestions?
>
> micah
>
> --- Jean-Bernard EMOND <jbemond@free.fr> wrote:
>
> > M.J.B. a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > > For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II
> > owners,
> > > I entreat you to answer a question of mine.
> > > Awhile back the question came back what early
> > > sampler sounds the closest to the fairlight
> > and
> > > the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage. i
> > bought
> > > one and it was kind of similar to my ears.
> > > though it didn't seem to quite have the same
> > > powerful VCA, and envelopes.
> > >
> > > I think I love the Fairlight most not for the
> > > samples but rather for it's additive
> > synthesis
> > > engine, those beautiful Harmonic additive(FM
> > > sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044 VCF's
> > is so
> > > gorgous.
> > >
> > > Anyway, does the additive synthesis section
> > of
> > > the fairlight sound close to anything else
> > you
> > > have tried? From my ears the casio cz series
> > > does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
> > > especially using a little EQ and running the
> > > sound through the analog chorus section on my
> > > casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind of*
> > > like a VCF.
> > >
> > > Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of
> > course
> > > I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.
> > >
> > > Anything else out there.
> > >
> > > Micah
> > >
> > > y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
> >
> > Why also compare all synth ?
> >
> > Fairlight is Fairlight...
> > Ned is Ned...
> > Casio is Casio !
> >
> > it is all ;)
> >
> >
> >
>
> y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

yamaha tx16w-interesting jean, never heard one
but with digital filters it must have a pretty
awesome sound engine(signal path) to make it come
close to the cmi.

what i'm after are synths that sound like the
fairlight's additive engine.

micah

--- Jean-Bernard EMOND <jbemond@free.fr> wrote:

> 
> Le 23 oct. 07 à 22:47, M.J.B. a écrit :
> 
> > > Why also compare all synth ?
> > >
> > > Fairlight is Fairlight...
> > > Ned is Ned...
> > > Casio is Casio !
> > >
> > > it is all ;)
> >
> > because fairlight = $3000
> >
> > casio cz = $100
> >
> > Do you have a fairlight? Wonderful. Most do
> > not, so I'm looking for an alternative.
> Yes, I have one Fairlight CMI IIx, one Ned
> Synclavier I and one  
> Synclavier II, and also other synth's and in
> old time also one Kawai  
> K1 II ;)
> 
> I think all synths and in general all sound
> instrument are  
> interesting...
> 
> The synth's sound is not the only part of the
> sound, processing  
> (analog or digital) are very important !
> 
> For me for imitate the Fairlight CMI the best
> reponse is Yamaha TX16W  
> (12 bits) ;)
> 
> JB
> 
> >
> > Kawai is not "musical" to my ears and is dead
> > when it comes to sound presense. Yamaha DX7
> is
> > too harsh and not as sweet as the CMI. I
> still
> > think casio cz is best to imitate the
> fairlight.
> >
> > any other suggestions?
> >
> > micah
> >
> > --- Jean-Bernard EMOND <jbemond@free.fr>
> wrote:
> >
> > > M.J.B. a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II
> > > owners,
> > > > I entreat you to answer a question of
> mine.
> > > > Awhile back the question came back what
> early
> > > > sampler sounds the closest to the
> fairlight
> > > and
> > > > the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage. i
> > > bought
> > > > one and it was kind of similar to my
> ears.
> > > > though it didn't seem to quite have the
> same
> > > > powerful VCA, and envelopes.
> > > >
> > > > I think I love the Fairlight most not for
> the
> > > > samples but rather for it's additive
> > > synthesis
> > > > engine, those beautiful Harmonic
> additive(FM
> > > > sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044
> VCF's
> > > is so
> > > > gorgous.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, does the additive synthesis
> section
> > > of
> > > > the fairlight sound close to anything
> else
> > > you
> > > > have tried? From my ears the casio cz
> series
> > > > does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
> > > > especially using a little EQ and running
> the
> > > > sound through the analog chorus section
> on my
> > > > casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind
> of*
> > > > like a VCF.
> > > >
> > > > Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of
> > > course
> > > > I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.
> > > >
> > > > Anything else out there.
> > > >
> > > > Micah
> > > >
> > > > y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
> > >
> > > Why also compare all synth ?
> > >
> > > Fairlight is Fairlight...
> > > Ned is Ned...
> > > Casio is Casio !
> > >
> > > it is all ;)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > 
> 
> 


y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

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All instruments tend to have their own sound and I don't know if you are 
going to find something else that sounds just like a Fairlight CMI series 
II. 

Two other samplers that include additive synthesis and analog filters are 
the Casio FZ-1 and the Emu Emax. Of course, neither of them sound quite the 
same as the Fairlight or offer the amazing display/light pen Fairlight 
interface. 

You might also try running a digital synth through external analog filers if 
you really want to add that element to the sound. 

/Tristan 

M.J.B. writes: 

> yamaha tx16w-interesting jean, never heard one
> but with digital filters it must have a pretty
> awesome sound engine(signal path) to make it come
> close to the cmi. 
> 
> what i'm after are synths that sound like the
> fairlight's additive engine. 
> 
> micah 
> 
> --- Jean-Bernard EMOND <jbemond@free.fr> wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> Le 23 oct. 07 à 22:47, M.J.B. a écrit : 
>> 
>> > > Why also compare all synth ?
>> > >
>> > > Fairlight is Fairlight...
>> > > Ned is Ned...
>> > > Casio is Casio !
>> > >
>> > > it is all ;)
>> >
>> > because fairlight = $3000
>> >
>> > casio cz = $100
>> >
>> > Do you have a fairlight? Wonderful. Most do
>> > not, so I'm looking for an alternative.
>> Yes, I have one Fairlight CMI IIx, one Ned
>> Synclavier I and one  
>> Synclavier II, and also other synth's and in
>> old time also one Kawai  
>> K1 II ;) 
>> 
>> I think all synths and in general all sound
>> instrument are  
>> interesting... 
>> 
>> The synth's sound is not the only part of the
>> sound, processing  
>> (analog or digital) are very important ! 
>> 
>> For me for imitate the Fairlight CMI the best
>> reponse is Yamaha TX16W  
>> (12 bits) ;) 
>> 
>> JB 
>> 
>> >
>> > Kawai is not "musical" to my ears and is dead
>> > when it comes to sound presense. Yamaha DX7
>> is
>> > too harsh and not as sweet as the CMI. I
>> still
>> > think casio cz is best to imitate the
>> fairlight.
>> >
>> > any other suggestions?
>> >
>> > micah
>> >
>> > --- Jean-Bernard EMOND <jbemond@free.fr>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > M.J.B. a écrit :
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II
>> > > owners,
>> > > > I entreat you to answer a question of
>> mine.
>> > > > Awhile back the question came back what
>> early
>> > > > sampler sounds the closest to the
>> fairlight
>> > > and
>> > > > the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage. i
>> > > bought
>> > > > one and it was kind of similar to my
>> ears.
>> > > > though it didn't seem to quite have the
>> same
>> > > > powerful VCA, and envelopes.
>> > > >
>> > > > I think I love the Fairlight most not for
>> the
>> > > > samples but rather for it's additive
>> > > synthesis
>> > > > engine, those beautiful Harmonic
>> additive(FM
>> > > > sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044
>> VCF's
>> > > is so
>> > > > gorgous.
>> > > >
>> > > > Anyway, does the additive synthesis
>> section
>> > > of
>> > > > the fairlight sound close to anything
>> else
>> > > you
>> > > > have tried? From my ears the casio cz
>> series
>> > > > does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
>> > > > especially using a little EQ and running
>> the
>> > > > sound through the analog chorus section
>> on my
>> > > > casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind
>> of*
>> > > > like a VCF.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of
>> > > course
>> > > > I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.
>> > > >
>> > > > Anything else out there.
>> > > >
>> > > > Micah
>> > > >
>> > > > y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
>> > >
>> > > Why also compare all synth ?
>> > >
>> > > Fairlight is Fairlight...
>> > > Ned is Ned...
>> > > Casio is Casio !
>> > >
>> > > it is all ;)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
>> >
>> > 
>>
> __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>> protection around
>> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >  
>> 
>> 
>  
> 
> y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[] 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com

I'm a huge fan of all things additive.
Software and hardware, anything goes!
My main tools for additive are, a Synclavier 9600 with
32voices of FM, Kyma and Csound.
I have also used a ,CMI IIx, K5000, and the very rare
,TECHNOS Axcelizer, on several occasions. All great
noise makers. All very different user interaction and
sound.

The key features of the IIx is it's hardware
limitations and filter. It's almost like a reduction
down to the audio essentials of what cuts through in a
mix. Gorgeous, LoFi, but with great gusto!

If you're really out to make a close reatro
approximation of a IIx additive synthesis, here's my
shop list. All very expensive hardware btw. You could
get away with a casio or mirage, but none of them does
real additive synthesis. 

#1 - CMI IIx (obviously, duh..)

#2 - NED synclavier II (with sample to disc option),
plus an analog filter.
This a very valid synth, even today. Great stereo FM
and great additive. It's not quite as gritty as the
IIx, but still plenty of interesting LoFi hardware
noise. Since it was mainly built as a FM synth, it's
actually easier to use than the additive portion of
the IIX. You still need an external filter though,
(the Synclavier has no builtin filters)
It's worth pointing out that the NED FM is a
completely different set of hardware than the sampling
portion. It's like two separate synths altogether.
They even have their own separate outputs.
You load up a sample in ram, then let the computer
analyze the sound and play it back from the FM cards.
Once the sound is under FM, you have access to all the
regular FM parameters. Kraftwerks "Electric Cafe" is a
good example of the NED sample to additive FM feature.


3# -  Csound software. Not the obvious choice here, i
know... Yes it's not totally easy to get used used to,
but neigher is the CMI additive =) However Csound is
free, and you can actually build an additive realtime
synthesizer with hardware simulations and everything
with the existing opcodes. This is really the sort of
thing Csound is good at! Granted you don't get he cool
lightpen. 
You can set samplerate, bit depth, etc manually. You
can even downsample only the sample portion of the
instrument, and let the software filters run full res.

Csound has a very "computeresque" clean sound quality
when un manipulated. However together with a few
software simulations and an old DA converter hanging
of your computer, you're getting real close.

A quick and dirty starter, is to just render your
additive samples with Csound and then record them into
your mirage!


Good Luck!
Cheers!
Tobias






--- "M.J.B." <yazzofever@yahoo.com> wrote:

> For you very privlidged Fairlight CMI II owners,
> I entreat you to answer a question of mine. 
> Awhile back the question came back what early
> sampler sounds the closest to the fairlight and
> the conclusion was the ensoniq mirage.  i bought
> one and it was kind of similar to my ears. 
> though it didn't seem to quite have the same
> powerful VCA, and envelopes.
> 
> I think I love the Fairlight most not for the
> samples but rather for it's additive synthesis
> engine, those beautiful Harmonic additive(FM
> sounding) sounds run through SSM 2044 VCF's is so
> gorgous.
> 
> Anyway, does the additive synthesis section of
> the fairlight sound close to anything else you
> have tried?  From my ears the casio cz series
> does the best to emulate fairlight sounds
> especially using a little EQ and running the
> sound through the analog chorus section on my
> casio cz5000. it warms up the sound *kind of*
> like a VCF.  
> 
> Yamaha FM is not "musical enough", and of course
> I wouldn't have access to a synclavier.
> 
> Anything else out there.
> 
> Micah
> 
> y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>

Hi Tobias,

What converters would you recommend for a CMI II type of sound? I have
tried many- TX16W, DMP7, PCM F1; none of these have that sound I think
I hear on records... :)

> Csound has a very "computeresque" clean sound quality
> when un manipulated. However together with a few
> software simulations and an old DA converter hanging
> of your computer, you're getting real close.

The inherent problem with a DA converter is the fixed
samplerate vs dynamic samplerate of sample systems
like Fairlight and NED. 
This is a topic that has been discussed many times,
and it's a huge part of the sound of these classics
(also a big reason why they're so expensive).
However if you are trying to simulate only the
additive portion of a NED or Fairlight system, you can
actually get pretty interesting results by using any
older style soundcard. The main emulation is NOT going
to come from the actual card, but how you treat the
sound in software going into the soundcard.
Bit reduction with mild overdrive distortion followed
by low internal gainstage will bring out the dirt from
the soundcard. Put a lowpassfilter like a moogerfooger
or a MOTM 490 at the end of the chain, together with a
gainer and you're getting close. 

It is not super important what kind of soundcard u
use. the TX16w is a good contender. It's also a card
that works with somewhat modern computers.  I would
stay away from any internal PCI cards with analog
outputs directly on the card. I't just way too much
interference noise (wrong kinda noise)
The important thing is to break it down in simple
steps and create a complete audio chain that represent
each stage of what happens inside the fairlight. 

Again I want to point out that this will not replace a
CMI IIx, but it's a reasonable approximation. 

Also, it all depends on how tweaky you want to get.
Csound can take you all the way, but at the risk of
investing lots of time to get it right.
The beauty with Csouns is that there are no
limitations to what you can do. If you want to custom
modify something for later purposes, you have the
perfect platform to grow with. 

Another easy way to get you halfway there is Turbo
synth together with an EMULATOR II or EMAX running on
a mac classic. Turbo synth has FM and some additive
features. 

A huge help for you would be to look over someones
shoulder demoing the CMI IIx. I think this would
de-mystify some of your questions.  

Cheers!
Tobias

--- Tomás <tomulcahy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Tobias,
> 
> What converters would you recommend for a CMI II
> type of sound? I have
> tried many- TX16W, DMP7, PCM F1; none of these have
> that sound I think
> I hear on records... :)
> 
> > Csound has a very "computeresque" clean sound
> quality
> > when un manipulated. However together with a few
> > software simulations and an old DA converter
> hanging
> > of your computer, you're getting real close.
> 
> 
>

Interesting reply Tobias. Yes, you're right, experiencing a IIx would
help.

However, I like the idea of a plugin (or something like that) for say,
NI Kontakt, that would emulate the transposing and AD-DA path of
classic samplers such as the CMI. Perhaps it would require sampling a
frequency sweep into a given vintage sampler, then recording the
sampler playing back the sweep at various pitches, just like
multisampling. Then turn those into impulse responses that can be
applied as an effect across any patch in Kontakt. It would need to be
done at various sampling rates and filter settings also.

Sounds quite complex, I wonder if Kontakt's scripting could make that
work?