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Recreating the Fairlight

Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-21 by lovesign50

Anyone that knows me knows that I have an unhealthy obsession with 
the Fairlight CMI. It started back in the early 80's and is still as 
rampant as it was back then. One day I really do hope to own at least 
a IIx or a III.

However, until that elusive lottery win comes along, or a long lost 
wealthy distant relative leaves me their entire fortune, it's not 
happening anytime soon. So, as is my want, I got to thinking about 
the perennial question of a software Fairlight replica which by 
todays standards would probably be in the VSTi format.

Currently nothing like this exists. The closest we have got is a 
bunch of samples, many of them very good, stored within a couple of 
sample based VSTi's, namely Best Service's "Cult Sampler" and Zero-
G's "Nostalgia". Many of these samples have also turned up in various 
other incarnations, but that's about it really. There's the sample CD 
knocking about by Pro Rec which has a version of the factory library 
for the CMI IIx. I have this disc (what discerning Fairlight wannabe 
owner doesn't) and it's an audio CD of reasonable quality but would 
need work to get the entire library into an authentically usable 
format.

Ask any Fairlight owner, and they will tell you that nothing compares 
to a Fairlight except another Fairlight, and to be fair, they're not 
wrong. Sure, you can sample one, but samples fail to capture the 
unique way that the Fairlight processed these sounds. It's 
technology, prehistoric by today's standards, coloured and tainted 
the sounds in a very unique way that sampling couldn't fully capture. 
Even if you could convert the entire Fairlight library into WAV 
format, they wouldn't sound the same when played through anything 
else.

Some would argue that today's technology is light years in advance of 
what was conjured up in Sydney over 30 years ago, and nobody could 
deny that, but it's the unique way the Fairlight handles it's audio 
that still makes it an object of desire. I wouldn't really want the 
Page R Sequencer to be honest, but the sounds are what defines the 
instrument after all this time. Just like a Stradivarius or Steinway, 
it's the actual sound made by these instruments that sets it apart 
from the rest today.

No, the only real way to sound like a Fairlight is to use a Fairlight.

Apparantly.

Which is where I started to think again. Surely, in this day and age 
of software instrument clones, someone could replicate, in software, 
the unique hardware used in a Fairlight, and then we could have a 
software based version of the system where we could load up those old 
sounds and have them play back in a much closer and realistic fashion 
than ever before.

Many would argue that Arturia's CS80V, MinimoogV, Moog ModularV and 
JupiterV sound nothing like the originals, and many would say 
otherwise. The same is true of Native Instruments replicas and also 
those by GMedia. You will never 100% capture these machines because 
of the way they worked and the volatility of the hardware used in the 
originals that caused variations from one use to another. But surely, 
a piece of digital hardware like the Fairlight could be replicated 
pretty faithfully in software ? I'm no expert in programming and 
wouldn't have the first clue about what goes into a project like 
this, but surely there is a demand for this ? Maybe Fairlight, who 
are still an operating company, albeit in a slightly different way, 
have some hold on copyrights and would block any attempt to recreate 
the CMI. 

Maybe the Fairlight of today are missing an opportunity to recreate 
this instrument themselves. With bands like Coldplay using a CMI on 
their latest (and quite stunning) long player, "Viva La Vida", there 
is still an obvious creative demand. Darren Hayes even made an entire 
double LP using his a short while ago. The perennial threads that 
constantly pop up in other synth forums with people requesting 
Fairlight samples or sounds shows that this interest is at all levels.

Maybe Peter Vogel could shed some light on this as he still interacts 
with the Fairlight community on Yahoo.

All I am wondering is if it would be so difficult to do. Is it 
impossible or financially restrictive ? Is there a simple issue with 
marketing and demand ? Is there a copyright issue ?

If someone came up with a software version of a Fairlight, I for one 
would be up there, waving my cheque book around :)

Your responses, thoughts and ideas would be most welcome.

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-22 by dvdborn

Hi,

I'm with you. I'm also for a quest to recreate the Series IIx sound. 

Here's my first attempt using multi samples, which turned out quite good:
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com/2008/06/sampling-sampler-about-10-years-ago.html

This, of course, won't let you create new samples with 'that' Fairlight sound.

My next stop will be impulse responses. I did some initial tests by creating impulses of the 
A/D filter which turned out OK. But this of course is only one partial aspect of the sound.

My next experiment will be to create an impulse response of every key. I'm still trying to 
figure out what will give the best results. Normally, to create an impulse, using the IR 
utility that came with Logic Studio, you need a 10 second sweep tone. Since the IIx doesn't 
allow for such a long sample time I need to figure out an alternative method.

David


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "lovesign50" <rob@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Anyone that knows me knows that I have an unhealthy obsession with 
> the Fairlight CMI. It started back in the early 80's and is still as 
> rampant as it was back then. One day I really do hope to own at least 
> a IIx or a III.
>

RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-22 by Rob Puricelli

As ever, David, I have followed your Fairlight tales on your blog, much as I
did with your EIII :o) I already downloaded the Kontakt samples you made.

 

I hadn't even considered the use of IR's. Good thinking !

 

I just wonder how difficult it would be to model the Fairlight's
architecture. Korg did a very good job with their M1, Wavestation, Polysix,
MonoPoly & MS20 and whilst I appreciate the Fairlight is probably a tad more
complex, surely it is possible ?

 

Anyway, I eagerly await the results of your experimentation :o)

 

Regards,

 

Rob

(aka FailedMuso)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of dvdborn
Sent: 22 June 2008 14:07
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

 

Hi,

I'm with you. I'm also for a quest to recreate the Series IIx sound. 

Here's my first attempt using multi samples, which turned out quite good:
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com/2008/06/sampling-sampler-about-10-years-ago.html

This, of course, won't let you create new samples with 'that' Fairlight
sound.

My next stop will be impulse responses. I did some initial tests by creating
impulses of the 
A/D filter which turned out OK. But this of course is only one partial
aspect of the sound.

My next experiment will be to create an impulse response of every key. I'm
still trying to 
figure out what will give the best results. Normally, to create an impulse,
using the IR 
utility that came with Logic Studio, you need a 10 second sweep tone. Since
the IIx doesn't 
allow for such a long sample time I need to figure out an alternative
method.

David

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Fairlight-CMI%40yahoogroups.com> , "lovesign50" <rob@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone that knows me knows that I have an unhealthy obsession with 
> the Fairlight CMI. It started back in the early 80's and is still as 
> rampant as it was back then. One day I really do hope to own at least 
> a IIx or a III.
>

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 21/06/2008
09:27

RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-22 by M.J.B.

In theory, this is a wonderful idea and with all digital synths, such as the Yamaha DX-7 being recreated in the VST format, it is something that can be done well.


However, as we all know, the Fairlight was almost as important as an analog machine as a digital one. The ways the sounds were processesed in the analog domain, through the VCF(either CEM or SSM filters) and VCA in my opinion really accounts for much of the beauty of the machine. This is what I think would be impossible NOW to emulate.

VST has it's sound..which is good or bad depending on your taste.

MIcah

y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Rob Puricelli wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Rob Puricelli
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:23 AM

As ever, David, I have followed your Fairlight tales on your blog, much as I did with your EIII :o) I already downloaded the Kontakt samples you made.

I hadn’t even considered the use of IR’s. Good thinking !

I just wonder how difficult it would be to model the Fairlight’s architecture. Korg did a very good job with their M1, Wavestation, Polysix, MonoPoly &; MS20 and whilst I appreciate the Fairlight is probably a tad more complex, surely it is possible ?

Anyway, I eagerly await the results of your experimentation :o)

Regards,

Rob

(aka FailedMuso)

From: Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Fairlight- CMI@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dvdborn
Sent: 22 June 2008 14:07
To: Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

Hi,

I'm with you. I'm also for a quest to recreate the Series IIx sound.

Here's my first attempt using multi samples, which turned out quite good:
http://dvdborn. blogspot. com/2008/ 06/sampling- sampler-about- 10-years- ago.html

This, of course, won't let you create new samples with 'that' Fairlight sound.

My next stop will be impulse responses. I did some initial tests by creating impulses of the
A/D filter which turned out OK. But this of course is only one partial aspect of the sound.

My next experiment will be to create an impulse response of every key. I'm still trying to
figure out what will give the best results. Normally, to create an impulse, using the IR
utility that came with Logic Studio, you need a 10 second sweep tone. Since the IIx doesn't
allow for such a long sample time I need to figure out an alternative method.

David

--- In Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com, "lovesign50" wrote:
>
> Anyone that knows me knows that I have an unhealthy obsession with
> the Fairlight CMI. It started back in the early 80's and is still as
> rampant as it was back then. One day I really do hope to own at least
> a IIx or a III.
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 21/06/2008 09:27


RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-22 by Peter Vogel

As well as the tracking filter VCFs, sampling noise and VCA envelope
generators, the Fairlight's curious sound came from the use of rate
multipliers to generate the variable sample rate.  These approximate the
required frequency by skipping occasional clocks, with the result that the
sampling jitters severely, even though over long periods of many sample the
average frequancy is correct.
 
The acoustic effect of this is distortion, birdies and subharmonics which
are related to the pitch played in a very strange way. This would need to be
recreated in the software simulation. It's not complex but probably not a
standard function any synthesiser would offer, as it would usually be
considered a fault, not a feature!
 
Peter   


  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: M.J.B. [mailto:yazzofever@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, 23 June 2008 3:27 AM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight






In theory, this is a wonderful idea and with all digital synths, such as the
Yamaha DX-7 being recreated in the VST format, it is something that can be
done well.


However, as we all know, the Fairlight was almost as important as an analog
machine as a digital one.  The ways the sounds were processesed in the
analog domain, through the VCF(either CEM or SSM filters) and VCA in my
opinion really accounts for much of the beauty of the machine.  This is what
I think would be impossible NOW to emulate.

VST has it's sound..which is good or bad depending on your taste.

 

MIcah   

y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Rob Puricelli <rob@puricelli.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:


From: Rob Puricelli <rob@puricelli.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:23 AM






As ever, David, I have followed your Fairlight tales on your blog, much as I
did with your EIII :o) I already downloaded the Kontakt samples you made.

 

I hadn’t even considered the use of IR’s. Good thinking !

 

I just wonder how difficult it would be to model the Fairlight’s
architecture. Korg did a very good job with their M1, Wavestation, Polysix,
MonoPoly & MS20 and whilst I appreciate the Fairlight is probably a tad more
complex, surely it is possible ?

 

Anyway, I eagerly await the results of your experimentation :o)

 

Regards,

 

Rob

(aka FailedMuso)

 

 

 

From: Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Fairlight- CMI@yahoogroups.
com] On Behalf Of dvdborn
Sent: 22 June 2008 14:07
To: Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

 

Hi,

I'm with you. I'm also for a quest to recreate the Series IIx sound. 

Here's my first attempt using multi samples, which turned out quite good:
http://dvdborn. blogspot. com/2008/
<http://dvdborn.blogspot.com/2008/06/sampling-sampler-about-10-years-ago.htm
l> 06/sampling- sampler-about- 10-years- ago.html

This, of course, won't let you create new samples with 'that' Fairlight
sound.

My next stop will be impulse responses. I did some initial tests by creating
impulses of the 
A/D filter which turned out OK. But this of course is only one partial
aspect of the sound.

My next experiment will be to create an impulse response of every key. I'm
still trying to 
figure out what will give the best results. Normally, to create an impulse,
using the IR 
utility that came with Logic Studio, you need a 10 second sweep tone. Since
the IIx doesn't 
allow for such a long sample time I need to figure out an alternative
method.

David

--- In Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com
<mailto:Fairlight-CMI%40yahoogroups.com> , "lovesign50" <rob@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone that knows me knows that I have an unhealthy obsession with 
> the Fairlight CMI. It started back in the early 80's and is still as 
> rampant as it was back then. One day I really do hope to own at least 
> a IIx or a III.
>



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 21/06/2008
09:27

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-23 by Tomás

Bjorn,

Does the IR facility in Kontakt also require 10 second files? That
seems the best option to me, because you could load an impulse for
each zone, coresponding to the playback of the sweep tone on each key
key of the CMI. You'd probably have to do this for all available
sampling rates- I think the IIx only offers a choice of two rates to
record at, is this correct?

Then, the only factor missing would be the sound of the summing
amplifier, and how that varies depending on how many channels are
playing back. So we'd probably get 98% of the CMI sound.

I think this approach would also cover the contribution of the
clocking scheme that Peter has kindly described.

RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-23 by Phil A

Are there any technical descriptions of how the low level sample rates are generated?

Phil


To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: peter.vogel@vogelfamily.net
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:19:38 +1000
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

As well as the tracking filter VCFs, sampling noise and VCA envelope generators, the Fairlight's curious sound came from the use of rate multipliers to generate the variable sample rate. These approximate the required frequency by skipping occasional clocks, with the result that the sampling jitters severely, even though over long periods of many sample the average frequancy is correct.
The acoustic effect of this is distortion, birdies and subharmonics which are related to the pitch played in a very strange way. This would need to be recreated in the software simulation. It's not complex but probably not a standard function any synthesiser would offer, as it would usually be considered a fault, not a feature!
Peter

From: M.J.B. [mailto:yazzofever@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, 23 June 2008 3:27 AM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight


In theory, this is a wonderful idea and with all digital synths, such as the Yamaha DX-7 being recreated in the VST format, it is something that can be done well.

However, as we all know, the Fairlight was almost as important as an analog machine as a digital one. The ways the sounds were processesed in the analog domain, through the VCF(either CEM or SSM filters) and VCA in my opinion really accounts for much of the beauty of the machine. This is what I think would be impossible NOW to emulate.

VST has it's sound..which is good or bad depending on your taste.

MIcah

y[]a[]z[]z[]o[]f[]e[]v[]e[]r[]

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Rob Puricelli freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

From: Rob Puricelli freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:23 AM


As ever, David, I have followed your Fairlight tales on your blog, much as I did with your EIII :o) I already downloaded the Kontakt samples you made.

I hadn’t even considered the use of IR’s. Good thinking !

I just wonder how difficult it would be to model the Fairlight’s architecture. Korg did a very good job with their M1, Wavestation, Polysix, MonoPoly & MS20 and whilst I appreciate the Fairlight is probably a tad more complex, surely it is possible ?

Anyway, I eagerly await the results of your experimentation :o)

Regards,

Rob

(aka FailedMuso)

From: Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Fairlight- CMI@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dvdborn
Sent: 22 June 2008 14:07
To: Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

Hi,

I'm with you. I'm also for a quest to recreate the Series IIx sound.

Here's my first attempt using multi samples, which turned out quite good:
http://dvdborn. blogspot. com/2008/ 06/sampling- sampler-about- 10-years- ago.html

This, of course, won't let you create new samples with 'that' Fairlight sound.

My next stop will be impulse responses. I did some initial tests by creating impulses of the
A/D filter which turned out OK. But this of course is only one partial aspect of the sound.

My next experiment will be to create an impulse response of every key. I'm still trying to
figure out what will give the best results. Normally, to create an impulse, using the IR
utility that came with Logic Studio, you need a 10 second sweep tone. Since the IIx doesn't
allow for such a long sample time I need to figure out an alternative method.

David

--- In Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com, "lovesign50" wrote:
>
> Anyone that knows me knows that I have an unhealthy obsession with
> the Fairlight CMI. It started back in the early 80's and is still as
> rampant as it was back then. One day I really do hope to own at least
> a IIx or a III.
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 21/06/2008 09:27



Get fish-slapping on Messenger! Play Now

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-23 by dvdborn

Suppose that someone would like to release a Fairlight IIx emulator.
Can he/they include the original IIx library? Does anybody own the rights to that library or 
are they public domain? 

Or is it more a question of: if you sample them they're recordings from an instrument (IIx) 
and hence the rights belong to the artist who played and recorded them (even if it's one 
lousy note).

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by dvdborn

There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx more faithfully.
 
If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit D/A-channels that use a 
variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and has an analogue filter for 
each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.

I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with todays technology that uses 
old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much from the technology. Or 
am I mistaken?

The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system as a VST or stand alone 
application that drives the external audio interface.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by martythevampire

Hi Everyone, really interesting post. 

David has almost got it, this is exactly what I've thought for most of
the vst's - its not only copying the internal sound generator hardware
but certainly for the digital synths, its the D/A converters that give
them a huge part their sound. Things like FM7 are great, but its
missing the grit my mk1 DX7 has. If they could nail that, I can't see
why a decent VST attempt couldn't be made. I cant think it would be
outrageously expensive and if it has hardware A/D D/A stages and
filters - its pretty much impossible to crack. I'd certainly have one.

One step even further would be something like the Manikin Memotron
style piece of hardware if VST support was added where its a digital
hardware recreation but thats probably going a bit far for most
peoples needs. 

The originals are still going to command more respect because they
were truly groundbreaking instruments. 

Best regards, Martin   

  


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@...> wrote:
>
> There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx
more faithfully.
>  
> If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit
D/A-channels that use a 
> variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and
has an analogue filter for 
> each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.
> 
> I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with
todays technology that uses 
> old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much
from the technology. Or 
> am I mistaken?
> 
> The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system
as a VST or stand alone 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> application that drives the external audio interface.
> 
> David
> http://dvdborn.blogspot.com
>

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by dvdborn

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, krec <krec@...> wrote:
>
> You want the Fairlight sound... buy a Fairlight...

I have one (IIx). But it's not going to last forever. 

The demand is also greater than what's on the market available. So an emulator would 
certainly benefit current owners since they will be able to continue using their 
sound/environment and those lusting after one can have access to them.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by Tobias Enhus

This is a very interesting idea. A concept I've toyed with quite a bit, although I'm trying to emulate the Synclavier sound.
What it all comes down to is cost. To do a a VST style emulation is fairly easy and straightforward, although not ever good enough sonically.
However a hardware/software platform is much more complex, simply because you're dealing with a hardware prototype programming environment.
All my efforts lead to the same answer. Yes it is possible, but it's going to be very very expensive. Far more expensive than buying a used Fairlight or Synclavier.
What would make this extra price ticket worth it?
Perhaps a super sampler with, 100kHz (or more), disk streaming, analog filters, modern Mac environment?
Tobias

dvdborn wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx more faithfully.

If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit D/A-channels that use a
variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and has an analogue filter for
each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.

I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with todays technology that uses
old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much from the technology. Or
am I mistaken?

The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system as a VST or stand alone
application that drives the external audio interface.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com


Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by Tobias Enhus

This is a very interesting idea. A concept I've toyed with quite a bit, although I'm trying to emulate the Synclavier sound.
What it all comes down to is cost. To do a a VST style emulation is fairly easy and straightforward, although not ever good enough sonically.
However a hardware/software platform is much more complex, simply because you're dealing with a hardware prototype programming environment.
All my efforts lead to the same answer. Yes it is possible, but it's going to be very very expensive. Far more expensive than buying a used Fairlight or Synclavier.
What would make this extra price ticket worth it?
Perhaps a super sampler with, 100kHz (or more), disk streaming, analog filters, modern Mac environment?
Tobias

dvdborn wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx more faithfully.

If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit D/A-channels that use a
variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and has an analogue filter for
each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.

I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with todays technology that uses
old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much from the technology. Or
am I mistaken?

The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system as a VST or stand alone
application that drives the external audio interface.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com


Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by krec

You want the Fairlight sound... buy a Fairlight...




Le Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:51:59 +0200, martythevampire  
<martythevampire@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit:

> Hi Everyone, really interesting post.
>
> David has almost got it, this is exactly what I've thought for most of
> the vst's - its not only copying the internal sound generator hardware
> but certainly for the digital synths, its the D/A converters that give
> them a huge part their sound. Things like FM7 are great, but its
> missing the grit my mk1 DX7 has. If they could nail that, I can't see
> why a decent VST attempt couldn't be made. I cant think it would be
> outrageously expensive and if it has hardware A/D D/A stages and
> filters - its pretty much impossible to crack. I'd certainly have one.
>
> One step even further would be something like the Manikin Memotron
> style piece of hardware if VST support was added where its a digital
> hardware recreation but thats probably going a bit far for most
> peoples needs.
>
> The originals are still going to command more respect because they
> were truly groundbreaking instruments.
>
> Best regards, Martin
>
>
>
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@...> wrote:
>>
>> There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx
> more faithfully.
>>
>> If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit
> D/A-channels that use a
>> variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and
> has an analogue filter for
>> each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.
>>
>> I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with
> todays technology that uses
>> old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much
> from the technology. Or
>> am I mistaken?
>>
>> The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system
> as a VST or stand alone
>> application that drives the external audio interface.
>>
>> David
>> http://dvdborn.blogspot.com
>>
>
>



-- 
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http://www.opera.com/mail/

R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by Tomás

Yes, the current vogue for different flavours of mic pre might move on
to different flavours of converters. The old Sony PCM F1 had an
interesting colour, that would be a nice one to have around too. 

But surely a DA or AD would be the one thing that an impulse response
could recreate with 100% accuracy? This talk of hardware is all very
interesting, but as has been mentioned, it would likely cost more than
the real thing, which IMO is better to have, even with the clunky UI.

PS. I believe Dan Lavry was the designer of the NED Synclavier
converters, so I would buy one of his devices if I wanted an update of
the Sync. sound in a modern setting.

R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by fabio delben

Hi Everyone,
Instead of replacing Fairlilght and Synclavier hardware, I would rather 
like to use them in conjunction with the latest PCs or Mac. Wouldn't it be great to be
able to use their A/Ds and D/A with let's say ProTools or Logic? I really like the sound of my Fairlight and my Synclavier but the interface is really boring and primitive.
Fabio


--- Mar 24/6/08, martythevampire <martythevampire@yahoo.co.uk> ha scritto:

Da: martythevampire <martythevampire@yahoo.co.uk>
Oggetto: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
A: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 24 giugno 2008, 10:51






Hi Everyone, really interesting post. 

David has almost got it, this is exactly what I've thought for most of
the vst's - its not only copying the internal sound generator hardware
but certainly for the digital synths, its the D/A converters that give
them a huge part their sound. Things like FM7 are great, but its
missing the grit my mk1 DX7 has. If they could nail that, I can't see
why a decent VST attempt couldn't be made. I cant think it would be
outrageously expensive and if it has hardware A/D D/A stages and
filters - its pretty much impossible to crack. I'd certainly have one.

One step even further would be something like the Manikin Memotron
style piece of hardware if VST support was added where its a digital
hardware recreation but thats probably going a bit far for most
peoples needs. 

The originals are still going to command more respect because they
were truly groundbreaking instruments. 

Best regards, Martin 

--- In Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@... > wrote:
>
> There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx
more faithfully.
> 
> If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit
D/A-channels that use a 
> variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and
has an analogue filter for 
> each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.
> 
> I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with
todays technology that uses 
> old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much
from the technology. Or 
> am I mistaken?
> 
> The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system
as a VST or stand alone 
> application that drives the external audio interface.
> 
> David
> http://dvdborn. blogspot. com
>

 














      ___________________________________ 
Scopri il Blog di Yahoo! Mail: trucchi, novità, consigli... e la tua opinione!
http://www.ymailblogit.com/blog/

Re: R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by krec

Primitiveness, restriction... bring you creation...




Le Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:51:13 +0200, fabio delben <memestudio@yahoo.it> a  
écrit:

> Hi Everyone,
> Instead of replacing Fairlilght and Synclavier hardware, I would rather
> like to use them in conjunction with the latest PCs or Mac. Wouldn't it  
> be great to be
> able to use their A/Ds and D/A with let's say ProTools or Logic? I  
> really like the sound of my Fairlight and my Synclavier but the  
> interface is really boring and primitive.
> Fabio
>
>
> --- Mar 24/6/08, martythevampire <martythevampire@yahoo.co.uk> ha  
> scritto:
>
> Da: martythevampire <martythevampire@yahoo.co.uk>
> Oggetto: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
> A: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Martedì 24 giugno 2008, 10:51
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Everyone, really interesting post.
>
> David has almost got it, this is exactly what I've thought for most of
> the vst's - its not only copying the internal sound generator hardware
> but certainly for the digital synths, its the D/A converters that give
> them a huge part their sound. Things like FM7 are great, but its
> missing the grit my mk1 DX7 has. If they could nail that, I can't see
> why a decent VST attempt couldn't be made. I cant think it would be
> outrageously expensive and if it has hardware A/D D/A stages and
> filters - its pretty much impossible to crack. I'd certainly have one.
>
> One step even further would be something like the Manikin Memotron
> style piece of hardware if VST support was added where its a digital
> hardware recreation but thats probably going a bit far for most
> peoples needs.
>
> The originals are still going to command more respect because they
> were truly groundbreaking instruments.
>
> Best regards, Martin
>
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@ yahoogroups. com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@... > wrote:
>>
>> There is also another possibility to emulate the sound of the IIx
> more faithfully.
>>
>> If someone would build a firewire/USB audio interface with 8 8 bit
> D/A-channels that use a
>> variable sample clock to transpose the sample of each channel and
> has an analogue filter for
>> each channel, using eg. the CEM chips from the DSI Prophet '08/Evolver.
>>
>> I have no idea how hard it is to design an audio interface with
> todays technology that uses
>> old 8 bit technology. But I'm guessing that it isn't asking too much
> from the technology. Or
>> am I mistaken?
>>
>> The front end can than be a faithfull emulation of the IIx's system
> as a VST or stand alone
>> application that drives the external audio interface.
>>
>> David
>> http://dvdborn. blogspot. com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________
> Scopri il Blog di Yahoo! Mail: trucchi, novità, consigli... e la tua  
> opinione!
> http://www.ymailblogit.com/blog/



-- 
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :  
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by Laurent Lemaire

It's correct. That why I keep my Cubase 3.0 on Atari. It does the job.
It's not flashy, it's not fast, but I know it very well, and at the end
of the day, I'm more productive than using the latest software which
contain zillion of settings and functions which loose me and completly
distract me from my initial goal... playing music !

Ergonomy and simple interface is important. It's also the great advantage
of old analog synths compare to digital ones like the Dx7 or M1...

But I also admit that I'm not a professional musician, so I don't have
any profitability or standard to respect as objective...

Professionals can't risk to to loose their entire work by using old ST-506
HDs, or doing backup on olds DC-600 or 8" floppies... So using modern
and under support hardware is mandatory for them. It's not my case...
  

----- Mail Original -----
De: "krec" <krec@erenis.fr>
À: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Envoyé: Mardi 24 Juin 2008 17:51:26 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne
Objet: Re: R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

Primitiveness, restriction... bring you creation...

Re: R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-06-24 by krec

You're right Mister Laurent.

Eric K.



Le Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:08:17 +0200, Laurent Lemaire <llemaire1@free.fr> a  
écrit:

>
>
> It's correct. That why I keep my Cubase 3.0 on Atari. It does the job.
> It's not flashy, it's not fast, but I know it very well, and at the end
> of the day, I'm more productive than using the latest software which
> contain zillion of settings and functions which loose me and completly
> distract me from my initial goal... playing music !
>
> Ergonomy and simple interface is important. It's also the great advantage
> of old analog synths compare to digital ones like the Dx7 or M1...
>
> But I also admit that I'm not a professional musician, so I don't have
> any profitability or standard to respect as objective...
>
> Professionals can't risk to to loose their entire work by using old  
> ST-506
> HDs, or doing backup on olds DC-600 or 8" floppies... So using modern
> and under support hardware is mandatory for them. It's not my case...
>
> ----- Mail Original -----
> De: "krec" <krec@erenis.fr>
> À: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Envoyé: Mardi 24 Juin 2008 17:51:26 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin /  
> Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne
> Objet: Re: R: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
>
> Primitiveness, restriction... bring you creation...
>



-- 
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :  
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-07-14 by antonyp69

Like the original poster of this thread, I too would be interested 
in a recreated Fairlight CMI.

The idea that has been floated is a VST type virtual Fairlight CMI.

However due to major advances in microtechnology and processing 
power and mega storage capacities, I believe the best solution would 
be to rereate the Fairlight CMI as a computer soundcard. A software 
package with all the Fairlight CMI functions such for example, Page 
6  Waveform Drawing, Page 7  Control Parameters  etc.. should also 
be included. To enable waveform drawing, an input device such as a 
usb optical mouse or usb optical pen could be used. Of course the 
soundcard would have a microphone input for sampling.  

A modern day personal computer with dual/quad core processors, 
gigabytes of memory and storage would be ample to host a "Fairlight 
soundcard".

I am not a computer board designer or electrical engineer, however I 
have assembled many computer systems and owned dozens of soundcards 
over the last 17 years.

In previous posts to this thread, the posters have stated that the 
goal is to obtain the "Fairlight" sound. Peter Vogel stated there 
were various nuances such as "birdies" and other quirks that gave the
Fairlight its sound.

As mentioned there have been major advances in computer technology 
over the last 30 years since the Fairlight CMI has been around. I am 
pretty sure there are modern day components that could mimic the 
circuitry of the CMI. Probably even software could emulate the 
circuitry as well, however a hardware soundcard version of the 
Fairlight CMI would do it justice.

How would I design a Fairlight CMI soundcard?

I would look at the Creative Labs Soundblaster cards that support 
Soundfonts as a starting point. The Soundfont is similar in that it 
spans the sound sample along the music keyboard. However although 
the Soundfont sounds great, it is not a Fairlight. The Creative Labs 
Soundblaster cards do not have the processing filters of the CMI.  

A CMI soundcard would ideally have sampling and processing qualities 
like a the original Fairlight CMI.

I would even put the original factory libraries of the Series IIx 
and Series III on a rom chip on the soundcard.

What I would love to see....

Because he knows the Fairlight back to front, he is very clever, and 
on a patriotic note, Australian, it would be great if Peter Vogel 
designed and produced this card. Maybe a 'Vogelight CSCI (Computer 
Soud Card Instrument)' ?????

This maybe a pipe-dream, but it maybe a thing that will keep the 
Fairlight legacy going a lot longer and introduce a new generation 
to the wonders of the CMI.

Antony
Melbourne, Australia

RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-07-14 by Tim Curtis

There is ONE way to recreate the Fairlight.

-Clone the circuits using identical components

-Use the same software

Anything else simply won’t do it.

Sorry.

-Tim

From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of antonyp69
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

Like the original poster of this thread, I too would be interested
in a recreated Fairlight CMI.

The idea that has been floated is a VST type virtual Fairlight CMI.

However due to major advances in microtechnology and processing
power and mega storage capacities, I believe the best solution would
be to rereate the Fairlight CMI as a computer soundcard. A software
package with all the Fairlight CMI functions such for example, Page
6 Waveform Drawing, Page 7 Control Parameters etc.. should also
be included. To enable waveform drawing, an input device such as a
usb optical mouse or usb optical pen could be used. Of course the
soundcard would have a microphone input for sampling.

A modern day personal computer with dual/quad core processors,
gigabytes of memory and storage would be ample to host a "Fairlight
soundcard".

I am not a computer board designer or electrical engineer, however I
have assembled many computer systems and owned dozens of soundcards
over the last 17 years.

In previous posts to this thread, the posters have stated that the
goal is to obtain the "Fairlight" sound. Peter Vogel stated there
were various nuances such as "birdies" and other quirks that gave the
Fairlight its sound.

As mentioned there have been major advances in computer technology
over the last 30 years since the Fairlight CMI has been around. I am
pretty sure there are modern day components that could mimic the
circuitry of the CMI. Probably even software could emulate the
circuitry as well, however a hardware soundcard version of the
Fairlight CMI would do it justice.

How would I design a Fairlight CMI soundcard?

I would look at the Creative Labs Soundblaster cards that support
Soundfonts as a starting point. The Soundfont is similar in that it
spans the sound sample along the music keyboard. However although
the Soundfont sounds great, it is not a Fairlight. The Creative Labs
Soundblaster cards do not have the processing filters of the CMI.

A CMI soundcard would ideally have sampling and processing qualities
like a the original Fairlight CMI.

I would even put the original factory libraries of the Series IIx
and Series III on a rom chip on the soundcard.

What I would love to see....

Because he knows the Fairlight back to front, he is very clever, and
on a patriotic note, Australian, it would be great if Peter Vogel
designed and produced this card. Maybe a 'Vogelight CSCI (Computer
Soud Card Instrument)' ?????

This maybe a pipe-dream, but it maybe a thing that will keep the
Fairlight legacy going a lot longer and introduce a new generation
to the wonders of the CMI.

Antony
Melbourne, Australia

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date: 7/13/2008 5:58 PM

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-07-17 by Tomás

I have to disagree. How can we say there is only one way, without
actually testing that hypothesis?

Convolution of impulse responses is extremely effective for emulating
circuits. Where it falls down is with speaker cabinets, because you
can't move the mic. But the interactions in a circuit are much more
limited than what happens with a speaker. So I reckon it would be an
effective way to get the CMI sound in a plugin environment.

I would like to try this- sample a sweep into the CMI, then record
this sample playing back from each key. Then insert each of these
samples into Kontakt's impulse processor, mapping them across the
keyboard, i.e. one per zone. Then you can apply this to anything you
sample.

I think this would be an extremely informative experiment, plus it's
straight forward to do!

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Curtis" <sexsymbol@...> wrote:
>
> There is ONE way to recreate the Fairlight.
> 
>  
> 
> -Clone the circuits using identical components
> 
> -Use the same software
> 
>  
> 
> Anything else simply won't do it.
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry.
> 
>  
> 
> -Tim
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of antonyp69
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
> 
>  
> 
> Like the original poster of this thread, I too would be interested 
> in a recreated Fairlight CMI.
> 
> The idea that has been floated is a VST type virtual Fairlight CMI.
> 
> However due to major advances in microtechnology and processing 
> power and mega storage capacities, I believe the best solution would 
> be to rereate the Fairlight CMI as a computer soundcard. A software 
> package with all the Fairlight CMI functions such for example, Page 
> 6 Waveform Drawing, Page 7 Control Parameters etc.. should also 
> be included. To enable waveform drawing, an input device such as a 
> usb optical mouse or usb optical pen could be used. Of course the 
> soundcard would have a microphone input for sampling. 
> 
> A modern day personal computer with dual/quad core processors, 
> gigabytes of memory and storage would be ample to host a "Fairlight 
> soundcard".
> 
> I am not a computer board designer or electrical engineer, however I 
> have assembled many computer systems and owned dozens of soundcards 
> over the last 17 years.
> 
> In previous posts to this thread, the posters have stated that the 
> goal is to obtain the "Fairlight" sound. Peter Vogel stated there 
> were various nuances such as "birdies" and other quirks that gave the
> Fairlight its sound.
> 
> As mentioned there have been major advances in computer technology 
> over the last 30 years since the Fairlight CMI has been around. I am 
> pretty sure there are modern day components that could mimic the 
> circuitry of the CMI. Probably even software could emulate the 
> circuitry as well, however a hardware soundcard version of the 
> Fairlight CMI would do it justice.
> 
> How would I design a Fairlight CMI soundcard?
> 
> I would look at the Creative Labs Soundblaster cards that support 
> Soundfonts as a starting point. The Soundfont is similar in that it 
> spans the sound sample along the music keyboard. However although 
> the Soundfont sounds great, it is not a Fairlight. The Creative Labs 
> Soundblaster cards do not have the processing filters of the CMI. 
> 
> A CMI soundcard would ideally have sampling and processing qualities 
> like a the original Fairlight CMI.
> 
> I would even put the original factory libraries of the Series IIx 
> and Series III on a rom chip on the soundcard.
> 
> What I would love to see....
> 
> Because he knows the Fairlight back to front, he is very clever, and 
> on a patriotic note, Australian, it would be great if Peter Vogel 
> designed and produced this card. Maybe a 'Vogelight CSCI (Computer 
> Soud Card Instrument)' ?????
> 
> This maybe a pipe-dream, but it maybe a thing that will keep the 
> Fairlight legacy going a lot longer and introduce a new generation 
> to the wonders of the CMI.
> 
> Antony
> Melbourne, Australia
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date:
7/13/2008
> 5:58 PM
>

RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-07-19 by Rob Puricelli

Hi Tim,

I couldn't disagree more. Let me explain why.

There are countless clones of countless items out there. If all of them had
said the same as you, we wouldn't have half the products we do today.

I agree that whilst the uniqueness of the components and circuitry would
indeed make an original Fairlight the only thing to sound like an original
Fairlight, to say it's impossible to recreate is a very blinkered view. I
could reel off numerous examples of where clones do indeed match the
original. Take a look at the Nord C1. Even the most hardened Hammond fans
gasp in awe at how exact a match it is for the real thing. 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lAqjAcSvxzE

That guy in the video above has built, rebuilt and restored more Hammonds
than I've had hot dinners and he positively wets himself at how good the C1
is.

And the C1 shares none of the original circuits, components or software of
the original (not that the original had any software !) ;o)

But ultimately, in isolation, I'm sure a Fairlight clone would certainly not
match an original, but how often do we play and record any of our
instruments in isolation ? Once they're buried in a mix, no one could tell
the difference. I'd place good money on that. Do you sit there and listen to
a tune and say, "You know what ? That's not a real XYZ instrument, it's a
poor clone." Of course not. All we are searching for is a way to access the
library and possibly to recreate the sampling environment in a modern and
convenient method. Whilst this recreation may not pass muster against a real
one, it would be as close as dammit and until I have a spare £5000 burning a
hole in my pocket, that will do for me :o)

Regards,

Rob.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tim Curtis
Sent: 14 July 2008 05:48
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

There is ONE way to recreate the Fairlight.

 

-Clone the circuits using identical components

-Use the same software

 

Anything else simply won’t do it.

 

Sorry.

 

-Tim

 

 

 

________________________________

From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of antonyp69
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

 

Like the original poster of this thread, I too would be interested 
in a recreated Fairlight CMI.

The idea that has been floated is a VST type virtual Fairlight CMI.

However due to major advances in microtechnology and processing 
power and mega storage capacities, I believe the best solution would 
be to rereate the Fairlight CMI as a computer soundcard. A software 
package with all the Fairlight CMI functions such for example, Page 
6 Waveform Drawing, Page 7 Control Parameters etc.. should also 
be included. To enable waveform drawing, an input device such as a 
usb optical mouse or usb optical pen could be used. Of course the 
soundcard would have a microphone input for sampling. 

A modern day personal computer with dual/quad core processors, 
gigabytes of memory and storage would be ample to host a "Fairlight 
soundcard".

I am not a computer board designer or electrical engineer, however I 
have assembled many computer systems and owned dozens of soundcards 
over the last 17 years.

In previous posts to this thread, the posters have stated that the 
goal is to obtain the "Fairlight" sound. Peter Vogel stated there 
were various nuances such as "birdies" and other quirks that gave the
Fairlight its sound.

As mentioned there have been major advances in computer technology 
over the last 30 years since the Fairlight CMI has been around. I am 
pretty sure there are modern day components that could mimic the 
circuitry of the CMI. Probably even software could emulate the 
circuitry as well, however a hardware soundcard version of the 
Fairlight CMI would do it justice.

How would I design a Fairlight CMI soundcard?

I would look at the Creative Labs Soundblaster cards that support 
Soundfonts as a starting point. The Soundfont is similar in that it 
spans the sound sample along the music keyboard. However although 
the Soundfont sounds great, it is not a Fairlight. The Creative Labs 
Soundblaster cards do not have the processing filters of the CMI. 

A CMI soundcard would ideally have sampling and processing qualities 
like a the original Fairlight CMI.

I would even put the original factory libraries of the Series IIx 
and Series III on a rom chip on the soundcard.

What I would love to see....

Because he knows the Fairlight back to front, he is very clever, and 
on a patriotic note, Australian, it would be great if Peter Vogel 
designed and produced this card. Maybe a 'Vogelight CSCI (Computer 
Soud Card Instrument)' ?????

This maybe a pipe-dream, but it maybe a thing that will keep the 
Fairlight legacy going a lot longer and introduce a new generation 
to the wonders of the CMI.

Antony
Melbourne, Australia



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date:
7/13/2008 5:58 PM


 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date: 17/07/2008
09:56

Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-07-19 by formula311dn

Well said Rob.

  I completely agree with your point of view. A recreation of the
Fairlight is not such an outlandish idea. I too do not have an extra
£5000 to drop for one at the moment or in the near future. Then there
is the cost of upkeep etc. I would happily settle for a nice clone at
this point.

-Dustin 

 
 


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Puricelli" <rob@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. Let me explain why.
> 
> There are countless clones of countless items out there. If all of
them had
> said the same as you, we wouldn't have half the products we do today.
> 
> I agree that whilst the uniqueness of the components and circuitry would
> indeed make an original Fairlight the only thing to sound like an
original
> Fairlight, to say it's impossible to recreate is a very blinkered
view. I
> could reel off numerous examples of where clones do indeed match the
> original. Take a look at the Nord C1. Even the most hardened Hammond
fans
> gasp in awe at how exact a match it is for the real thing. 
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lAqjAcSvxzE
> 
> That guy in the video above has built, rebuilt and restored more
Hammonds
> than I've had hot dinners and he positively wets himself at how good
the C1
> is.
> 
> And the C1 shares none of the original circuits, components or
software of
> the original (not that the original had any software !) ;o)
> 
> But ultimately, in isolation, I'm sure a Fairlight clone would
certainly not
> match an original, but how often do we play and record any of our
> instruments in isolation ? Once they're buried in a mix, no one
could tell
> the difference. I'd place good money on that. Do you sit there and
listen to
> a tune and say, "You know what ? That's not a real XYZ instrument,
it's a
> poor clone." Of course not. All we are searching for is a way to
access the
> library and possibly to recreate the sampling environment in a
modern and
> convenient method. Whilst this recreation may not pass muster
against a real
> one, it would be as close as dammit and until I have a spare £5000
burning a
> hole in my pocket, that will do for me :o)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rob.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Tim Curtis
> Sent: 14 July 2008 05:48
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
> 
> There is ONE way to recreate the Fairlight.
> 
>  
> 
> -Clone the circuits using identical components
> 
> -Use the same software
> 
>  
> 
> Anything else simply won't do it.
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry.
> 
>  
> 
> -Tim
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of antonyp69
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight
> 
>  
> 
> Like the original poster of this thread, I too would be interested 
> in a recreated Fairlight CMI.
> 
> The idea that has been floated is a VST type virtual Fairlight CMI.
> 
> However due to major advances in microtechnology and processing 
> power and mega storage capacities, I believe the best solution would 
> be to rereate the Fairlight CMI as a computer soundcard. A software 
> package with all the Fairlight CMI functions such for example, Page 
> 6 Waveform Drawing, Page 7 Control Parameters etc.. should also 
> be included. To enable waveform drawing, an input device such as a 
> usb optical mouse or usb optical pen could be used. Of course the 
> soundcard would have a microphone input for sampling. 
> 
> A modern day personal computer with dual/quad core processors, 
> gigabytes of memory and storage would be ample to host a "Fairlight 
> soundcard".
> 
> I am not a computer board designer or electrical engineer, however I 
> have assembled many computer systems and owned dozens of soundcards 
> over the last 17 years.
> 
> In previous posts to this thread, the posters have stated that the 
> goal is to obtain the "Fairlight" sound. Peter Vogel stated there 
> were various nuances such as "birdies" and other quirks that gave the
> Fairlight its sound.
> 
> As mentioned there have been major advances in computer technology 
> over the last 30 years since the Fairlight CMI has been around. I am 
> pretty sure there are modern day components that could mimic the 
> circuitry of the CMI. Probably even software could emulate the 
> circuitry as well, however a hardware soundcard version of the 
> Fairlight CMI would do it justice.
> 
> How would I design a Fairlight CMI soundcard?
> 
> I would look at the Creative Labs Soundblaster cards that support 
> Soundfonts as a starting point. The Soundfont is similar in that it 
> spans the sound sample along the music keyboard. However although 
> the Soundfont sounds great, it is not a Fairlight. The Creative Labs 
> Soundblaster cards do not have the processing filters of the CMI. 
> 
> A CMI soundcard would ideally have sampling and processing qualities 
> like a the original Fairlight CMI.
> 
> I would even put the original factory libraries of the Series IIx 
> and Series III on a rom chip on the soundcard.
> 
> What I would love to see....
> 
> Because he knows the Fairlight back to front, he is very clever, and 
> on a patriotic note, Australian, it would be great if Peter Vogel 
> designed and produced this card. Maybe a 'Vogelight CSCI (Computer 
> Soud Card Instrument)' ?????
> 
> This maybe a pipe-dream, but it maybe a thing that will keep the 
> Fairlight legacy going a lot longer and introduce a new generation 
> to the wonders of the CMI.
> 
> Antony
> Melbourne, Australia
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date:
> 7/13/2008 5:58 PM
> 
> 
>  
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date:
17/07/2008
> 09:56
>

RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

2008-07-19 by Tim Curtis

So what you’re talking about really ~isn’t~ a recreation.

I guess that it just really gets to me when people talk about “recreations”, be they plug ins or whatever.

FWIW, I’m very familiar with the C1, used it extensively in the studio, and it’s fine, but is absolutely NOT indistinguishable from the real thing. Through a good monitoring system, in a good room, the differences are very apparent.

It’s the same thing as the convolutions that someone mentioned earlier. They sound fine, but I’ve never heard anything that truly sounds real, and believe me, I’ve used a LOT of them. It’s never going to be a “recreation”.

What we’re actually talking about here is us trying to get something “close”. That’s fine, but it’s NOT a recreation, anymore than there are “recreations” of Stradivarius violins, vintage Stratocasters, or AC Cobras.

And the term “clone” is even more annoying. A clone would be an exact copy.

And yes, I know of a lot of people (okay, so they’re recording professionals, so it’s a bit unusual) who DO listen and hear when someone’s using a plug in, clone, whatever. The really crappy Mellotron samples come to mind. (They really can’t fool anyone with an ear…)

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but we’re not talking about a clone, we’re talking about something similar. And if that’s the case it becomes a matter of HOW similar. You may as well just use samples of the sounds.

Tim

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Puricelli
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:57 AM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

Hi Tim,

I couldn't disagree more. Let me explain why.

There are countless clones of countless items out there. If all of them had
said the same as you, we wouldn't have half the products we do today.

I agree that whilst the uniqueness of the components and circuitry would
indeed make an original Fairlight the only thing to sound like an original
Fairlight, to say it's impossible to recreate is a very blinkered view. I
could reel off numerous examples of where clones do indeed match the
original. Take a look at the Nord C1. Even the most hardened Hammond fans
gasp in awe at how exact a match it is for the real thing.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lAqjAcSvxzE

That guy in the video above has built, rebuilt and restored more Hammonds
than I've had hot dinners and he positively wets himself at how good the C1
is.

And the C1 shares none of the original circuits, components or software of
the original (not that the original had any software !) ;o)

But ultimately, in isolation, I'm sure a Fairlight clone would certainly not
match an original, but how often do we play and record any of our
instruments in isolation ? Once they're buried in a mix, no one could tell
the difference. I'd place good money on that. Do you sit there and listen to
a tune and say, "You know what ? That's not a real XYZ instrument, it's a
poor clone." Of course not. All we are searching for is a way to access the
library and possibly to recreate the sampling environment in a modern and
convenient method. Whilst this recreation may not pass muster against a real
one, it would be as close as dammit and until I have a spare £5000 burning a
hole in my pocket, that will do for me :o)

Regards,

Rob.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tim Curtis
Sent: 14 July 2008 05:48
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

There is ONE way to recreate the Fairlight.

-Clone the circuits using identical components

-Use the same software

Anything else simply won’t do it.

Sorry.

-Tim

________________________________

From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of antonyp69
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Recreating the Fairlight

Like the original poster of this thread, I too would be interested
in a recreated Fairlight CMI.

The idea that has been floated is a VST type virtual Fairlight CMI.

However due to major advances in microtechnology and processing
power and mega storage capacities, I believe the best solution would
be to rereate the Fairlight CMI as a computer soundcard. A software
package with all the Fairlight CMI functions such for example, Page
6 Waveform Drawing, Page 7 Control Parameters etc.. should also
be included. To enable waveform drawing, an input device such as a
usb optical mouse or usb optical pen could be used. Of course the
soundcard would have a microphone input for sampling.

A modern day personal computer with dual/quad core processors,
gigabytes of memory and storage would be ample to host a "Fairlight
soundcard".

I am not a computer board designer or electrical engineer, however I
have assembled many computer systems and owned dozens of soundcards
over the last 17 years.

In previous posts to this thread, the posters have stated that the
goal is to obtain the "Fairlight" sound. Peter Vogel stated there
were various nuances such as "birdies" and other quirks that gave the
Fairlight its sound.

As mentioned there have been major advances in computer technology
over the last 30 years since the Fairlight CMI has been around. I am
pretty sure there are modern day components that could mimic the
circuitry of the CMI. Probably even software could emulate the
circuitry as well, however a hardware soundcard version of the
Fairlight CMI would do it justice.

How would I design a Fairlight CMI soundcard?

I would look at the Creative Labs Soundblaster cards that support
Soundfonts as a starting point. The Soundfont is similar in that it
spans the sound sample along the music keyboard. However although
the Soundfont sounds great, it is not a Fairlight. The Creative Labs
Soundblaster cards do not have the processing filters of the CMI.

A CMI soundcard would ideally have sampling and processing qualities
like a the original Fairlight CMI.

I would even put the original factory libraries of the Series IIx
and Series III on a rom chip on the soundcard.

What I would love to see....

Because he knows the Fairlight back to front, he is very clever, and
on a patriotic note, Australian, it would be great if Peter Vogel
designed and produced this card. Maybe a 'Vogelight CSCI (Computer
Soud Card Instrument)' ?????

This maybe a pipe-dream, but it maybe a thing that will keep the
Fairlight legacy going a lot longer and introduce a new generation
to the wonders of the CMI.

Antony
Melbourne, Australia

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date:
7/13/2008 5:58 PM

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date: 17/07/2008
09:56

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1562 - Release Date: 7/19/2008 2:01 PM

Move to quarantaine

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