Fairlight-CMI

HI there,

I have just got my hands on a MFX keyboard (serial 004!) , and a strange 
interface box which i havnt heard any mention of on this group before.

Does anyone have any experiance of using one of these succesfully with a 
rev 9,34 series III ? 

By the look of the interface box, I connect all the cables up to the the interface, 
and off I go. I am a bit worried about the bare cables comming out of the back 
of the MFX keyboard, which are labeled with their power ratings.

The biggest mystery so far is what kind of cable can I use to connect the MFX 
keyboard to the interface : Its like a scsi D connector, but only half the width.

I have put some pictures here : 

http://homepage.mac.com/arronclague/PhotoAlbum1.html

IN case anyone can recognise the MFX cable type from the ports.

ANy help or tips would be gratefully recieved !

Cheers,

Arron

Hi Harald !

The way you describe your system was a lot more like what I was expecting :

I guess I will need to power the MFX myself via the exposed cables : There is no additional
mains cable ! The unit shipped from Sweden, but im unaware of its original origins.

Where does the blue center MFX port on the connect to the CMI ? Is their a special able to
go from this centronics port to the 9 pin D port where the old alpha keyboard went ?

I did find some information on the KMI site about connecting the MFX keyboards, but I
would have to say, there is no mention of the interface box !

I am kind of wondering that as the unit was only the 4th one made (according to the serial
number) Fairlights' initial plan was to use the interface to connect it to the CMI, and maybe
your CMI has extra cards or something on the rear pannel, and some of the electronics of
the interface unit buit into your CMI mainframe ?

I dont have anything corresponding to "MFX in" or similar on my Mainframe.

Im guessing you do ?

Thanks,

Arron






--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, feldmann@x wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:08:24 -0000, "Eight to Infinity (Arron)"
> <arron@8...> wrote:
> 
> >HI there,
> 
> Hi Arron,
> 
> >I have just got my hands on a MFX keyboard (serial 004!) , and a strange 
> >interface box which i havnt heard any mention of on this group before.
> 
> Congratulations !
> 
> >Does anyone have any experiance of using one of these succesfully with a 
> >rev 9,34 series III ? 
> 
> >By the look of the interface box, I connect all the cables up to the the interface, 
> >and off I go. I am a bit worried about the bare cables comming out of the back 
> >of the MFX keyboard, which are labeled with their power ratings.
> 
> I have no bare cables coming out of mine. The only cable you should
> connect to the CMI is the small 'Centronics' / scsi one. There should
> be a mains plug and a switch for power in the right hand corner of the
> back (facing the back). I have a mini jack where that cable runs out
> of yours. Maybe it is an external power plug for the electronics. I
> read in the MFX description on ebay that the MFX controller comes with
> an external power supply. Maybe the one you have originates from the
> US ?
> 
> The interface box is strange, I have never seen it before. My MFX does
> not have such a box, it just plugs into the CMI.
> 
> >The biggest mystery so far is what kind of cable can I use to connect the MFX 
> >keyboard to the interface : Its like a scsi D connector, but only half the width.
> 
> That's the one.
> 
> >I have put some pictures here : 
> >
> >http://homepage.mac.com/arronclague/PhotoAlbum1.html
> >
> >IN case anyone can recognise the MFX cable type from the ports.
> 
> The small scsi. The center one of the connectors. The left one should
> be an RS232 serial mouse connector.
> 
> >ANy help or tips would be gratefully recieved !
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Arron
> 
> Hope it helps,
> 
> Best regards,
> Harald.

Well, just to reply to my own email here is a picture of a cmiIII with an MFX port : 

http://members.tripod.com/kmi9000/kmi_cmiIII_MFXback.jpg

But my CMIII has the two printer ports like this : 

http://members.tripod.com/kmi9000/kmi_cmiIII_leds.jpg



--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "Eight to Infinity (Arron)" <arron@8...> wrote:
> Hi Harald !
> 
> The way you describe your system was a lot more like what I was expecting :
> 
> I guess I will need to power the MFX myself via the exposed cables : There is no 
additional
> mains cable ! The unit shipped from Sweden, but im unaware of its original origins.
> 
> Where does the blue center MFX port on the connect to the CMI ? Is their a special able 
to
> go from this centronics port to the 9 pin D port where the old alpha keyboard went ?
> 
> I did find some information on the KMI site about connecting the MFX keyboards, but I
> would have to say, there is no mention of the interface box !
> 
> I am kind of wondering that as the unit was only the 4th one made (according to the 
serial
> number) Fairlights' initial plan was to use the interface to connect it to the CMI, and 
maybe
> your CMI has extra cards or something on the rear pannel, and some of the electronics 
of

> the interface unit buit into your CMI mainframe ?
> 
> I dont have anything corresponding to "MFX in" or similar on my Mainframe.
> 
> Im guessing you do ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Arron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, feldmann@x wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:08:24 -0000, "Eight to Infinity (Arron)"
> > <arron@8...> wrote:
> > 
> > >HI there,
> > 
> > Hi Arron,
> > 
> > >I have just got my hands on a MFX keyboard (serial 004!) , and a strange 
> > >interface box which i havnt heard any mention of on this group before.
> > 
> > Congratulations !
> > 
> > >Does anyone have any experiance of using one of these succesfully with a 
> > >rev 9,34 series III ? 
> > 
> > >By the look of the interface box, I connect all the cables up to the the interface, 
> > >and off I go. I am a bit worried about the bare cables comming out of the back 
> > >of the MFX keyboard, which are labeled with their power ratings.
> > 
> > I have no bare cables coming out of mine. The only cable you should
> > connect to the CMI is the small 'Centronics' / scsi one. There should
> > be a mains plug and a switch for power in the right hand corner of the
> > back (facing the back). I have a mini jack where that cable runs out
> > of yours. Maybe it is an external power plug for the electronics. I
> > read in the MFX description on ebay that the MFX controller comes with
> > an external power supply. Maybe the one you have originates from the
> > US ?
> > 
> > The interface box is strange, I have never seen it before. My MFX does
> > not have such a box, it just plugs into the CMI.
> > 
> > >The biggest mystery so far is what kind of cable can I use to connect the MFX 
> > >keyboard to the interface : Its like a scsi D connector, but only half the width.
> > 
> > That's the one.
> > 
> > >I have put some pictures here : 
> > >
> > >http://homepage.mac.com/arronclague/PhotoAlbum1.html
> > >
> > >IN case anyone can recognise the MFX cable type from the ports.
> > 
> > The small scsi. The center one of the connectors. The left one should
> > be an RS232 serial mouse connector.
> > 
> > >ANy help or tips would be gratefully recieved !
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >
> > >Arron
> > 
> > Hope it helps,
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Harald.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:08:24 -0000, "Eight to Infinity (Arron)"
<arron@8inf.com> wrote:

>HI there,

Hi Arron,

>I have just got my hands on a MFX keyboard (serial 004!) , and a strange 
>interface box which i havnt heard any mention of on this group before.

Congratulations !

>Does anyone have any experiance of using one of these succesfully with a 
>rev 9,34 series III ? 

>By the look of the interface box, I connect all the cables up to the the interface, 
>and off I go. I am a bit worried about the bare cables comming out of the back 
>of the MFX keyboard, which are labeled with their power ratings.

I have no bare cables coming out of mine. The only cable you should
connect to the CMI is the small 'Centronics' / scsi one. There should
be a mains plug and a switch for power in the right hand corner of the
back (facing the back). I have a mini jack where that cable runs out
of yours. Maybe it is an external power plug for the electronics. I
read in the MFX description on ebay that the MFX controller comes with
an external power supply. Maybe the one you have originates from the
US ?

The interface box is strange, I have never seen it before. My MFX does
not have such a box, it just plugs into the CMI.

>The biggest mystery so far is what kind of cable can I use to connect the MFX 
>keyboard to the interface : Its like a scsi D connector, but only half the width.

That's the one.

>I have put some pictures here : 
>
>http://homepage.mac.com/arronclague/PhotoAlbum1.html
>
>IN case anyone can recognise the MFX cable type from the ports.

The small scsi. The center one of the connectors. The left one should
be an RS232 serial mouse connector.

>ANy help or tips would be gratefully recieved !
>
>Cheers,
>
>Arron

Hope it helps,

Best regards,
Harald.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:23:31 -0000, "Eight to Infinity (Arron)"
<arron@8inf.com> wrote:

>Hi Harald !

Hey Arron :) 

You're up late too :)

>I guess I will need to power the MFX myself via the exposed cables : There is no additional
>mains cable ! The unit shipped from Sweden, but im unaware of its original origins.

Okay,

I recall I read something about the MFX controller the other day and
if memory serves me well it said that initially the MFX was
controlling the CMI over MIDI. Now, I could be totally wrong, but if
that's the case, it could explain why the interface box you have has a
midi cable to connect to the CMI. Possibly the power cable for the MKB
electronics can also power the MFX controller through the wires that
come out of your MFX controller. The MFX 'scsi' cable then goes to the
box, which converts the signal into midi for the CMI. The MKB then
connects to the box as well so everything has its power. Please note,
I am thinking out-loud. I have no clue how the CMI would interpret the
midi info.

>Where does the blue center MFX port on the connect to the CMI ? 

It doesn't. The box probably converts it to midi. I am looking that
article up for you,

>Is their a special able to
>go from this centronics port to the 9 pin D port where the old alpha keyboard went ?

I have, as you correctly assumed in your follow-up, a separate port on
the back of my MFX-CMI.

>I did find some information on the KMI site about connecting the MFX keyboards, but I
>would have to say, there is no mention of the interface box !

If it mentions the MIDI control then you are pretty much on track I'd
say.

>I am kind of wondering that as the unit was only the 4th one made (according to the serial
>number) Fairlights' initial plan was to use the interface to connect it to the CMI, and maybe
>your CMI has extra cards or something on the rear pannel, and some of the electronics of
>the interface unit buit into your CMI mainframe ?

Very well possible ! I won't open it (yet) though :)

>I dont have anything corresponding to "MFX in" or similar on my Mainframe.
>Im guessing you do ?

Yes, you're correct.

>Thanks,
>
>Arron

If you need a cable, I am willing to figure out which pin goes where
on the cable for you. You might then be able to construct a cable
yourself.

Best regards,
Harald.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:07:32 GMT, feldmann@xs4all.nl wrote:

Dear all,

>I recall I read something about the MFX controller the other day and
>if memory serves me well it said that initially the MFX was
>controlling the CMI over MIDI. Now, I could be totally wrong, but if
>that's the case, 

I searched and searched and I am unable to substantiate this
statement, so please just take it as a comment.

Until I come up with the source of the info, please do not rely on the
correctness of my statement regarding MFX-2 and MIDI control.

Thanks ! :)

Harald.

> I searched and searched and I am unable to substantiate this
> statement, so please just take it as a comment.
>
> Until I come up with the source of the info, please do not rely on the
> correctness of my statement regarding MFX-2 and MIDI control.

Another idea: I don't think the MFX-2 translates (fully) to MIDI. What I
*could* imagine is the box translating the signal from the "Synchronizer"
connector (could be Sony 9pin, couldn't it?) to some sort of MIDI Time
Code. Or it could be used to operate the sequencer from the MFX transport
controls in a similar fashion. Does the CMI react to MTC?

-- 
Malte Rogacki gacki@gacki.sax.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't forget to TURN ON THE SYNTHESIZER. Often this is the reason why you
 get no sound out of it." (ARP 2600 Owner's Manual)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there Harald !

Thanks to everyone who has chipped in ideas so far : thanks very much !

I found this on the KMI site :

__________


MFX Inputs/Ouputs:
The MFX mainboard contains four DUARTS (68681), offering 8 serial inputs 
and 8 serial outputs (and various parallel I/O ports). A subset of these serial 
ports is connected to the CMI mainframe (requiring a new rear-panel 
assembly: CMI-354/355).
CMI -> MFX:
* CMI MIDI D output
* CMI PRINTER2 output (now called "/mfx" under OS9)
* MIDI from CMI music-keyboard (via CMI rear-panel)
* RS232 from Music+Alpha-keyboard (via CMI rear-panel)
MFX -> CMI:
* CMI MIDI D input
* "DIN" Q133 RS232 input
* RS422 I/O (via CMI rear-panel) 
Without the MFX keyboard connected, the RS232 from the Music+Alpha-
keyboard is directly routed to the RS232 "DIN" input of the Q133. Furthermore, 
the MIDI output from the Music-keyboard is directly routed to the MIDI D input 
of the CMI. This re-routing establishes the original CMI routing (see above) 
and is accomplished by a relay on the CMI rear-panel.
The MFX keyboard sends real-time, timecode, SysEx control commands and 
forwarded music-keyboard MIDI packets to the CMI MIDI D input. Here, MDR 
commands are encapsulated within special SysEx packets. In return, the CMI 
replies or requests MFX services via its PRINTER2 output to the MFX 
(especially for downloading new application software "mfx.runtime" to the 
MFX).
Optionally, a CMI music-keyboard and/or an Alpha-keyboard can still be used 
(attached to the CMI mainframe). In this case, their output signals is re-routed 
to the MFX (via the CMI rear-panel see above), which in turn multiplexes 
these signals with its own outputs (in its software "mfx.runtime") to the 
corresponding CMI mainframe inputs (MIDI D input and "DIN" Q133 RS232 
input). (Note: mfx.runtime only supports 3-Byte MIDI command packets from 
the MIDI-keyboard input, as sent by the CMI music-keyboard. No Real-time, 
Active-Sensing, SysEx, or omitted start-bytes are allowed.)
The MFX mouse port (RS232, 1200Baud) is used as a replacement for the 
graphics-pen of the Alpha-keyboard. (Supported protocols: Microsoft 2-button 
3-Byte protocol, MouseSystems 3-button 5-Byte protocol, ...) Here, the MFX 
generates an output stream compatible with the Alpha-keyboard graphics-
pen protocol.
See software section below for more information about MFX and MDR.

_______________

So , Im guessing all I need to do is :

1) power the MFX keyboard from the exposed wires

2) Connect the MFX keyboard via the mini-centronics interface

3) Plug the interface box into the CMI's Midi, Printer, and RS422 port

The only bit im missing is the wiring for all the cables : Harald : I will try to find 
a standard cable type for this type of port first, and source the components. If I 
cant work it out myself, Id love to take you up on your offer of testing the pins, 
but I feel it is likely to be a standard cable (why would fairlight rewire a 
standard cable after all)

Ill report back and let you all know how it is going !  

Thanks for all your help, and stay well,

Arron



--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, feldmann@x wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:07:32 GMT, feldmann@x... wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> >I recall I read something about the MFX controller the other day and
> >if memory serves me well it said that initially the MFX was
> >controlling the CMI over MIDI. Now, I could be totally wrong, but if
> >that's the case, 
> 
> I searched and searched and I am unable to substantiate this
> statement, so please just take it as a comment.
> 
> Until I come up with the source of the info, please do not rely on the
> correctness of my statement regarding MFX-2 and MIDI control.
> 
> Thanks ! :)
> 
> Harald.

> Hi there Harald !

Hurray :) You found it :-)

"The MFX keyboard sends real-time, timecode, SysEx control commands and
forwarded music-keyboard MIDI packets to the CMI MIDI D input."

> Thanks to everyone who has chipped in ideas so far : thanks very much !

You're welcome. Quite a coincidence I just read it a few days ago.

> 2) Connect the MFX keyboard via the mini-centronics interface
>
> 3) Plug the interface box into the CMI's Midi, Printer, and RS422 port
>
> The only bit im missing is the wiring for all the cables : Harald : I will
> try to find
> a standard cable type for this type of port first, and source the
> components.
>  If I
> cant work it out myself, Id love to take you up on your offer of testing
> the pins,

Good luck, you may want to try a second-hand Apple computer store, they
have lots of scsi stuff !

> but I feel it is likely to be a standard cable (why would fairlight rewire
> a
> standard cable after all)

That makes sense.

> Ill report back and let you all know how it is going !
>
> Thanks for all your help, and stay well,
>
> Arron

Thanks alot ! :)

regards,
Harald.

>> The only bit im missing is the wiring for all the cables : Harald : I will
>> try to find
>> a standard cable type for this type of port first, and source the
>> components.
>>  If I
>> cant work it out myself, Id love to take you up on your offer of testing
>> the pins,
>
> Good luck, you may want to try a second-hand Apple computer store, they
> have lots of scsi stuff !

Short addition: This won't help because SCSI is 50 pin centronics and the
MFX port is 24 pin.
I don't know if the wiring is "straight" - if it is the easiest way would
be to use ribbon cable with crimping connectors an both ends.

-- 
Malte Rogacki gacki@gacki.sax.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't forget to TURN ON THE SYNTHESIZER. Often this is the reason why you
 get no sound out of it." (ARP 2600 Owner's Manual)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------