Hello,
First, the component prices shown in Mike's listing (and Alan's
previous post) are nowhere near reality for a product made in qty.
(Seems he's not purchased components for multiple machines. And
likely not purchased in qty. from overseas sources.)
Also, the specs of the RR PCB mill 10x10x2-1/2 GANTRY are nowhere
near Fred's machine 12x12x4 BRIDGE. However, Fred's specs ARE pretty
close to the Wood duck (12x12x4 GANTRY) which was described and first
produced nearly a year ago...
Next, the 500 buck price has been clearly stated several times to be
a special price for members of this group only; in return for their
assembly, electronic knowledge(thereby requiring less product
support; the oft-forgotten cost of bringing something to market) and
beta testing of the initial units...
I have always said that the long term price would be in the 800-1000
range. Interestingly, while some things have increased in cost over
the last year (Steel, being one previously stated example), some
other key components have become less expensive. So it's still
possible to offer nearly the same deal as before.
But again, there is still a minimum qty. that must be made--of the
structural parts--for the project to be fiscally viable. Which is why
this whole thread was started by me. To see if that minimum could be
met. If not, we will proceed with another already designed and proven
machine--the Wood Duck. Capable of PCB work, but not really designed
for it specifically like the RR. The wood ducks are larger, and more
expensive.
I don't know if I mentioned Laser cutting before or not; but I've
said all along that the machine is 12GA steel, and laser cutting is
one common means these days to produce such items. (Fact is,
originally the plan was to use a turret punch. I even have an NC Di-
Acro 18 in the midst of a retrofit to do this; since I didn't have
the bucks to pay the sheet metal house... For some parts of the
machine a turret punch is still the best way. It was during work with
the designer at the sheet metal house where we determined that by
using laser; value could be added, a smaller initial qty. could be
made, and precision increased.
The world is a lot larger than a few CNC groups on Yahoo...
My hope was/is to provide some of you here with a machine at an
excellent value. In any business, decisions are made on facts; with
the goal being to please customers and make money. When the response
is in, we will look at the facts and decide what to do. Either way,
we're bringing machines to market...
Ballendo
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "lcdpublishing"
<lcdpublishing@y...> wrote:
>
> Hey Mike, don't forget, the investor is going to want a good chunk
> of the margins as well.
>
> Fred's machine looks very interesting - didn't know about that one
> till you posted here - thanks for the link.
>
> The pricing of these small machines is a tough one. Much of the
> high cost items are the motors, drives, screws, ways, etc. The
base
> pricing of these items creates a situation wherein a small machine
> isn't much cheaper to build than a large one.
>
> If Ballendo could make one for under $500.00 and as good as what
> Fred's machines look like in that link, my hat's off to him, or
> anyone else that will make them and sell them for that price range.
>
> Chris
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > All Chris said on this forum about ballendo is true. PCB driller
> that
> > ballendo is promising, is never going to happen which means to
you
> one
> > thing: guys, do not wait for it, build your own!
> >
> > Many things changed in 1.5 year since the original announcement
> and
> > many people built their machines, so what was hot back than, I
> don't
> > think is as hot any more.
> >
> > Your idea of a $600 machine needs to be revisted: you cannot do
it
> > although Fred did something similar:
> >
> > http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?
> PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=121
> >
> > as far as I can tell, Fred's machine resembles ballendo's specs
> almost
> > exactly, scratch the servos.
> >
> > I do not recall ballendo ever mentioning laser cut sheet metal
> except
> > for yesterday. Who knows, maybe there was a discussion on a CNC
> group
> > in the past and laser cutting sheet metal was mentioned? However,
> > coincidence of it, is stunning: one day Fred announced his
machine
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> and
> > few days later ballendo is doing a marketing research with the
> same
> > specs.
> >
> > Having said that, instead of describing a pattern of behavior, I
> am
> > asking a question, can a machine, like Fred listed, be built for
> $600
> > with stepper motors and a controller? I am not sure if ballendo
> > offered to add a Dremel but probbaly not so let's assume that a
> Dremel
> > tool is on top of the $600, ie, the PCB drilelr becomes a $700
> > machine.
> >
> > The answer is:
> > 1. Sheetmetal (material, laser cutting and bending): $300
> > 2. Leadscrews $100
> > 3. Motors (they will be direct coupled): $50
> > 4. adapters, screws, bolts, nuts: $20
> > 5. Machine has to glide on something, Fred's is gliding on slides
> and
> > they are not cheap, so: 150
> > 6. Machining, drilling: one hour=$60
> > 7. Packaging: $30
> > 8. Controller: $100
> > 9. Power supply (maybe he didn't include one) $40. By the way,
> www.mfj
> > is out of them until Nov 30)
> >
> > Total: $850 Of course, there is no profit in it (and no spindle
> either)
> > and I do not expect a product without a profit. Now, let's talk
> about
> > Fred's machine for a sec: servos $100x3, controller $600=$1000
> > Do you see that Fred's machine costs $1000, motors and controller
> are
> > another $1000 and software included is free? And he also gave you
> a
> > free spindle.
> >
> > Question is how long can Fred advertise that machine before
> increasing
> > the prise...
> >
> > Feel free to correct my numbers.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > as usual, there is a cheaper alternative: www.kleinbauer.com :)
> >
>