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Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-11 by Philip Pemberton

Anyone looking for a cheap SMD reflow soldering oven?

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4230302.htm

Get one of these, a solid-state relay, thermocouple and a PID controller 
and you're basically sorted. Or you can do it the same way Kenneth Maxon 
(ref: Seattle Robotics "Encoder" magazine) did and just use the dial on 
the oven.

Or even build your own temperature controller out of a PIC micro and a 
Maxim MAX6675 thermocouple interface chip...

Temperature goes up to ~350C in a minute or so with no trouble (despite 
the thermostat being set to 250C) and cools down to 50C almost as 
quickly when you kill the power to the heating elements. Also warms the 
room up quite nicely (it could probably do with a bit of insulation 
around the oven).

Of course, I bought mine when they were £60, now they're only £30... 
such is life.

-- 
Phil.
ygroups@...
http://www.philpem.me.uk/

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-11 by William Laakkonen

Yipes- seems like a lot of work.

I've been working with QFP (Atmega2580, AD9951) and 0603, 0805, 1206- hand
soldering is no problem using 0.015" solder and standard iron- but then
again with over 900 parts on one board, the oven approach is not practical
for one-offs. I wonder why so many are doing solder-paste screens, etc for
small lots. Faster to hand solder them IMO. Of course, if you want to spend
the time making it more complicated than it need be...

Use a Loctite mini-fluxer and regular solder and regular solder. If you want
to see how to solder a QFP I have some photos here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/worldradiolabs/PicastarComboBBDSPCodecDDSSections#


Best regards,

Bill
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Philip Pemberton <ygroups@...>wrote:

>
>
> Anyone looking for a cheap SMD reflow soldering oven?
>
> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4230302.htm
>
> Get one of these, a solid-state relay, thermocouple and a PID controller
> and you're basically sorted. Or you can do it the same way Kenneth Maxon
> (ref: Seattle Robotics "Encoder" magazine) did and just use the dial on
> the oven.
>
> Or even build your own temperature controller out of a PIC micro and a
> Maxim MAX6675 thermocouple interface chip...
>
> Temperature goes up to ~350C in a minute or so with no trouble (despite
> the thermostat being set to 250C) and cools down to 50C almost as
> quickly when you kill the power to the heating elements. Also warms the
> room up quite nicely (it could probably do with a bit of insulation
> around the oven).
>
> Of course, I bought mine when they were �60, now they're only �30...
> such is life.
>
> --
> Phil.
> ygroups@... <ygroups%40philpem.me.uk>
> http://www.philpem.me.uk/
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-11 by lists

In article <4B995142.5040206@...>,
   Philip Pemberton <ygroups@philpem.me.uk> wrote:
> Of course, I bought mine when they were £60, now they're only £30... 
> such is life.

Never mind, it looks like they are probably out of stock anyway.

-- 
Stuart
http://www.torrens.org.uk/ZFC/gallery/winsor.html

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by DJ Delorie

On 03/11/2010 05:11 PM, William Laakkonen wrote:
>I wonder why so many are doing solder-paste screens, etc for
> small lots. Faster to hand solder them IMO. Of course, if you want to spend
> the time making it more complicated than it need be...

In my case, if I need a paste stencil for a QFN-EP anyway, I'll include 
all the other parts and do it that way.  Plus, for lots of SMT parts on 
a board, it can be faster to put all the paste down at once, place all 
the parts onto the paste, and reflow it.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Henry Liu

I have done some detailed thinking about fastest assembly for prototypes.

I have still yet to find something better than Zeph paste in a syringe
+ hot air.  There's a video here for a QFP:
http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm

Hot Air Operations:
i) Paste 4 sides of chip, 10seconds per side

Total Time: 40 seconds and no cleanup.

If I have more than 5 chips, it would be faster to use a stencil
instead of syringe.  I have a laser cutter and cutting the stencil is
about 5 minutes but I still don't use it all the time because stencil
use requires clean up of the stencil and application tools.

However it's still 5 minutes + 2 minutes to align/tape the stencil + 5
minutes to cleanup = 12 minutes + disposables.

I still use my hot air gun to do the stenciled parts because my hot
plate takes 40 minutes from heatup to cool down.  If I had a push
button oven, I'd use that.

I'm impressed with the ability to solder fine pitch QFP devices.
However, soldering n pins requires n+1 glue operations where solder
paste is only 4 operations per chip.

Hot air guns are cheap : $50-100 off ebay.  $15 of solder paste in a
syringe has lasted me several months for the limited prototype
assembly I need to do.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:11 PM, William Laakkonen
<worldradiolabs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Yipes- seems like a lot of work.
>
> I've been working with QFP (Atmega2580, AD9951) and 0603, 0805, 1206- hand
> soldering is no problem using 0.015" solder and standard iron- but then
> again with over 900 parts on one board, the oven approach is not practical
> for one-offs. I wonder why so many are doing solder-paste screens, etc for
> small lots. Faster to hand solder them IMO. Of course, if you want to spend
> the time making it more complicated than it need be...
>
> Use a Loctite mini-fluxer and regular solder and regular solder. If you want
> to see how to solder a QFP I have some photos here:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/worldradiolabs/PicastarComboBBDSPCodecDDSSections#
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by William Laakkonen

Hand Soldering any QFP requires:

1. Apply flux from mini-fluxer pen or similar
2. Position chip
3. tack solder opposite corners
4. glob solder across all pins, shorting most
5. lay a *good quality (E.G. M.G.Chemical) Solder Wick across the globbed
solder on one side and drag the iron across the wick, lifting nearly all the
solder, repeat this for other sides.

It may be scary to consider globbing solder on a $20 chip- I've done it
hundreds of times on QFPs now and have yet to lose a part.

Elapsed time for an Atmega2560 (100 pin TQFP) about 5 minutes and no oven,
paste, etc. Mind you I *have* used paste, hot air, solder mask.-, etc. I've
used the above method successfully also with .35mm pitch parts since about
1992 and have done it hundreds of times. No special skill or tools needed,
other than a good magnifier which you should have working with small items
anyway. I'm not a young guy either, so I must work with the magnifier lamp.

After soldering many thousands of SMDs, my conclusion is in most cases,
solder paste is a wasted effort unless your in production. If you can see
it, you can solder it with a (good)  pen, solder, and wick. I use 0.015
solder for 0603 and up. I use .022 or 0.035 for QFP or SOIC devices and wick
up excess. I only see hot air and paste useful for things which you cannot
reach with an iron (flexible kapton boards with blind connects, BGA, ETC)-
and what hobbyist(s)) would use such parts unless they were free? I do see
"homebrew" in the title, which to me evokes a sense of doing more with less
and experimenting with new techniques.

Loading and soldering is only one side of a homebrew_PCB.

Regards,

Bill

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have done some detailed thinking about fastest assembly for prototypes.
>
> I have still yet to find something better than Zeph paste in a syringe
> + hot air. There's a video here for a QFP:
> http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm
>
> Hot Air Operations:
> i) Paste 4 sides of chip, 10seconds per side
>
> Total Time: 40 seconds and no cleanup.
>
> If I have more than 5 chips, it would be faster to use a stencil
> instead of syringe. I have a laser cutter and cutting the stencil is
> about 5 minutes but I still don't use it all the time because stencil
> use requires clean up of the stencil and application tools.
>
> However it's still 5 minutes + 2 minutes to align/tape the stencil + 5
> minutes to cleanup = 12 minutes + disposables.
>
> I still use my hot air gun to do the stenciled parts because my hot
> plate takes 40 minutes from heatup to cool down. If I had a push
> button oven, I'd use that.
>
> I'm impressed with the ability to solder fine pitch QFP devices.
> However, soldering n pins requires n+1 glue operations where solder
> paste is only 4 operations per chip.
>
> Hot air guns are cheap : $50-100 off ebay. $15 of solder paste in a
> syringe has lasted me several months for the limited prototype
> assembly I need to do.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:11 PM, William Laakkonen
> <worldradiolabs@... <worldradiolabs%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Yipes- seems like a lot of work.
> >
> > I've been working with QFP (Atmega2580, AD9951) and 0603, 0805, 1206-
> hand
> > soldering is no problem using 0.015" solder and standard iron- but then
> > again with over 900 parts on one board, the oven approach is not
> practical
> > for one-offs. I wonder why so many are doing solder-paste screens, etc
> for
> > small lots. Faster to hand solder them IMO. Of course, if you want to
> spend
> > the time making it more complicated than it need be...
> >
> > Use a Loctite mini-fluxer and regular solder and regular solder. If you
> want
> > to see how to solder a QFP I have some photos here:
> >
> >
> http://picasaweb.google.com/worldradiolabs/PicastarComboBBDSPCodecDDSSections#
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Bill
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Leon Heller

On 12/03/2010 11:55, William Laakkonen wrote:
> Hand Soldering any QFP requires:
>
> 1. Apply flux from mini-fluxer pen or similar
> 2. Position chip
> 3. tack solder opposite corners
> 4. glob solder across all pins, shorting most
> 5. lay a *good quality (E.G. M.G.Chemical) Solder Wick across the globbed
> solder on one side and drag the iron across the wick, lifting nearly all the
> solder, repeat this for other sides.
>
> It may be scary to consider globbing solder on a $20 chip- I've done it
> hundreds of times on QFPs now and have yet to lose a part.
>
> Elapsed time for an Atmega2560 (100 pin TQFP) about 5 minutes and no oven,
> paste, etc. Mind you I *have* used paste, hot air, solder mask.-, etc. I've
> used the above method successfully also with .35mm pitch parts since about
> 1992 and have done it hundreds of times. No special skill or tools needed,
> other than a good magnifier which you should have working with small items
> anyway. I'm not a young guy either, so I must work with the magnifier lamp.
>
> After soldering many thousands of SMDs, my conclusion is in most cases,
> solder paste is a wasted effort unless your in production. If you can see
> it, you can solder it with a (good)  pen, solder, and wick. I use 0.015
> solder for 0603 and up. I use .022 or 0.035 for QFP or SOIC devices and wick
> up excess. I only see hot air and paste useful for things which you cannot
> reach with an iron (flexible kapton boards with blind connects, BGA, ETC)-
> and what hobbyist(s)) would use such parts unless they were free? I do see
> "homebrew" in the title, which to me evokes a sense of doing more with less
> and experimenting with new techniques.
>
> Loading and soldering is only one side of a homebrew_PCB.

I drag-solder the leads with a mini-hoof Metacal cartridge. It's just as 
quick and no cleaning up with desolder braid is needed. Plenty of gel 
flux is essential.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by William Laakkonen

> I drag-solder the leads with a mini-hoof Metacal cartridge. It's just as
> quick and no cleaning up with desolder braid is needed. Plenty of gel
> flux is essential.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>
> New one for me Leon- I've never heard of Metacal or mini hoof. Here in the
states 'Metacal" is a dog food brand (but then again, my dog's name is a
butter brand in Finland). Can you perhaps give us this suggestion with
generic names? E.G. Cyanoacrylate vs. Super Glue.

73 Bill N4BKT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Stefan Trethan

I find I'm just much faster with paste. It does not require a tool
change for each component like hand soldering where I need to switch
between holding components in place and feeding solder.

Using paste it is more like an assembly line, first dispense all
paste, then place all parts, then solder all at once. I get very
efficient doing the same thing in a row.

I can set up hand soldering to be more efficient, for example by
tinning all first pins before starting to place any components,
then only placing parts reflowing that first pin, and as a last step
soldering all the other pins. But I'm still slower than using paste.

I'm prepared to race anyone wielding an iron ;-)

There are more minor reasons for me to use paste:
Positioning doesn't need to be accurate. Surface tension pulls parts in place.
Heating is even, some parts like ceramic capacitors are not specified
for the stresses of hand soldering.
Overall appearance is more like production, unless you put extra
effort into hand soldering.


ST


On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:55 PM, William Laakkonen
<worldradiolabs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hand Soldering any QFP requires:
>
> 1. Apply flux from mini-fluxer pen or similar
> 2. Position chip
> 3. tack solder opposite corners
> 4. glob solder across all pins, shorting most
> 5. lay a *good quality (E.G. M.G.Chemical) Solder Wick across the globbed
> solder on one side and drag the iron across the wick, lifting nearly all the
> solder, repeat this for other sides.
>
> It may be scary to consider globbing solder on a $20 chip- I've done it
> hundreds of times on QFPs now and have yet to lose a part.
>
> Elapsed time for an Atmega2560 (100 pin TQFP) about 5 minutes and no oven,
> paste, etc. Mind you I *have* used paste, hot air, solder mask.-, etc. I've
> used the above method successfully also with .35mm pitch parts since about
> 1992 and have done it hundreds of times. No special skill or tools needed,
> other than a good magnifier which you should have working with small items
> anyway. I'm not a young guy either, so I must work with the magnifier lamp.
>
> After soldering many thousands of SMDs, my conclusion is in most cases,
> solder paste is a wasted effort unless your in production. If you can see
> it, you can solder it with a (good)  pen, solder, and wick. I use 0.015
> solder for 0603 and up. I use .022 or 0.035 for QFP or SOIC devices and wick
> up excess. I only see hot air and paste useful for things which you cannot
> reach with an iron (flexible kapton boards with blind connects, BGA, ETC)-
> and what hobbyist(s)) would use such parts unless they were free? I do see
> "homebrew" in the title, which to me evokes a sense of doing more with less
> and experimenting with new techniques.
>
> Loading and soldering is only one side of a homebrew_PCB.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Stefan Trethan

The top quality soldering tool manufacturers all call their drag
soldering tips a different name.
Metcal calls it mini hoof, Ersa calls it power well, I'm sure there are others.

The basic idea is always that the iron tip contains a concave solder
reservoir which allows better drag soldering than a standard iron tip.
The special tips make it easier to create the right amount of fillet
without any shorts, but with some skill even a pencilpoint tip can be
used for drag soldering with no cleanup needed.

ST

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:54 PM, William Laakkonen
<worldradiolabs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> New one for me Leon- I've never heard of Metacal or mini hoof. Here in the
> states 'Metacal" is a dog food brand (but then again, my dog's name is a
> butter brand in Finland). Can you perhaps give us this suggestion with
> generic names? E.G. Cyanoacrylate vs. Super Glue.
>
> 73 Bill N4BKT
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Leon Heller

On 12/03/2010 12:54, William Laakkonen wrote:
>> I drag-solder the leads with a mini-hoof Metacal cartridge. It's just as
>> quick and no cleaning up with desolder braid is needed. Plenty of gel
>> flux is essential.
>>
>> Leon
>> --
>> Leon Heller
>> G1HSM
>>
>> New one for me Leon- I've never heard of Metacal or mini hoof. Here in the
> states 'Metacal" is a dog food brand (but then again, my dog's name is a
> butter brand in Finland). Can you perhaps give us this suggestion with
> generic names? E.G. Cyanoacrylate vs. Super Glue.
>
> 73 Bill N4BKT

Sorry, typo. Should have been Metcal:

http://www.metcal.com/

I use a second-hand STSS power unit with the MX-500 handpiece and 
cartridges.

Frequency is about 14.5 MHz so I could probably put the power unit on 
the 14 Mhz band with a few mods. 8-)

73, Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by William Laakkonen

I suppose it's a matter of preference- you can't tell my soldering from
paste and I do not stress the parts using a chisel tip and quick soldering-
though it could be a thermal shock in cold climates.

I see a "mini-hoof" is what I call a chisel tip. You definitely do not want
to try SMD soldering with a pointed and narrow tip- may be this is why so
many have troubles and go to the extra effort of ovens, etc? Seldom need to
use hoof tips.

I have always liked the way parts float into place with paste- but my
homebrew boards were never quite good enough to trust 100% for that. I'm
glad yours are.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>wrote:

>
>
> I find I'm just much faster with paste. It does not require a tool
> change for each component like hand soldering where I need to switch
> between holding components in place and feeding solder.
>
> Using paste it is more like an assembly line, first dispense all
> paste, then place all parts, then solder all at once. I get very
> efficient doing the same thing in a row.
>
> I can set up hand soldering to be more efficient, for example by
> tinning all first pins before starting to place any components,
> then only placing parts reflowing that first pin, and as a last step
> soldering all the other pins. But I'm still slower than using paste.
>
> I'm prepared to race anyone wielding an iron ;-)
>
> There are more minor reasons for me to use paste:
> Positioning doesn't need to be accurate. Surface tension pulls parts in
> place.
> Heating is even, some parts like ceramic capacitors are not specified
> for the stresses of hand soldering.
> Overall appearance is more like production, unless you put extra
> effort into hand soldering.
>
> ST
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:55 PM, William Laakkonen
> <worldradiolabs@... <worldradiolabs%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hand Soldering any QFP requires:
> >
> > 1. Apply flux from mini-fluxer pen or similar
> > 2. Position chip
> > 3. tack solder opposite corners
> > 4. glob solder across all pins, shorting most
> > 5. lay a *good quality (E.G. M.G.Chemical) Solder Wick across the globbed
> > solder on one side and drag the iron across the wick, lifting nearly all
> the
> > solder, repeat this for other sides.
> >
> > It may be scary to consider globbing solder on a $20 chip- I've done it
> > hundreds of times on QFPs now and have yet to lose a part.
> >
> > Elapsed time for an Atmega2560 (100 pin TQFP) about 5 minutes and no
> oven,
> > paste, etc. Mind you I *have* used paste, hot air, solder mask.-, etc.
> I've
> > used the above method successfully also with .35mm pitch parts since
> about
> > 1992 and have done it hundreds of times. No special skill or tools
> needed,
> > other than a good magnifier which you should have working with small
> items
> > anyway. I'm not a young guy either, so I must work with the magnifier
> lamp.
> >
> > After soldering many thousands of SMDs, my conclusion is in most cases,
> > solder paste is a wasted effort unless your in production. If you can see
> > it, you can solder it with a (good)  pen, solder, and wick. I use 0.015
> > solder for 0603 and up. I use .022 or 0.035 for QFP or SOIC devices and
> wick
> > up excess. I only see hot air and paste useful for things which you
> cannot
> > reach with an iron (flexible kapton boards with blind connects, BGA,
> ETC)-
> > and what hobbyist(s)) would use such parts unless they were free? I do
> see
> > "homebrew" in the title, which to me evokes a sense of doing more with
> less
> > and experimenting with new techniques.
> >
> > Loading and soldering is only one side of a homebrew_PCB.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Henry Liu <henryjliu@gmail.com<henryjliu%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Leon Heller

On 12/03/2010 13:21, William Laakkonen wrote:
> I suppose it's a matter of preference- you can't tell my soldering from
> paste and I do not stress the parts using a chisel tip and quick soldering-
> though it could be a thermal shock in cold climates.
>
> I see a "mini-hoof" is what I call a chisel tip. You definitely do not want
> to try SMD soldering with a pointed and narrow tip- may be this is why so
> many have troubles and go to the extra effort of ovens, etc? Seldom need to
> use hoof tips.

The mini-hoof tip is shaped like a horse's hoof, with a little 
depression that holds a small amount of solder. It's nothing like a 
chisel tip. It's held with the end parallel to the leads (it's at an 
angle to the shaft) and wiped along them.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by sailingto

That sure looks good, and I was checking out with a $14 tube, then when shipping was over $13 - I canceled.

I do like the idea - and the price sure is better than the $6 shipped for a 1/2cc tube.

Ken

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have done some detailed thinking about fastest assembly for prototypes.
> 
> I have still yet to find something better than Zeph paste in a syringe
> + hot air.  There's a video here for a QFP:
> http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm

Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by alienrelics

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
>
> I have done some detailed thinking about fastest assembly for prototypes.
> 
> I have still yet to find something better than Zeph paste in a syringe
> + hot air.  There's a video here for a QFP:
> http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm
> 
> Hot Air Operations:
> i) Paste 4 sides of chip, 10seconds per side
> 
> Total Time: 40 seconds and no cleanup.

Fast!

I guess it is a style decision for them to use that shape of base for everything, but it sure does seem excessive for the vacuum pick-and-place.

Simple enough to build the pre-heater. I don't see this system working well for BGA reflowing, unless that hot air tip can put out a lot more heat than it looks like it can.

Someone gave me an Xbox with the red-ring-of-death, you see...

Steve Greenfield

Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by alienrelics

Wow! What the heck? $12 shipping by UPS ground to Washington State for one tube. Gold plated shipping containers?

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> That sure looks good, and I was checking out with a $14 tube, then when shipping was over $13 - I canceled.
> 
> I do like the idea - and the price sure is better than the $6 shipped for a 1/2cc tube.
> 
> Ken
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@> wrote:
> >
> > I have done some detailed thinking about fastest assembly for prototypes.
> > 
> > I have still yet to find something better than Zeph paste in a syringe
> > + hot air.  There's a video here for a QFP:
> > http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Stefan Trethan

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:58 PM, alienrelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> I guess it is a style decision for them to use that shape of base for everything, but it sure does seem excessive for the vacuum > pick-and-place.

The weird pyramid shape is one of the reasons a Zeph tool won't find
it's way to my bench (apart from the vastly inflated price). How do
you stack something on top of a pyramid?

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Stefan Trethan

Some paste needs to be shipped refrigerated, and express.
The Zeph paste should not need that, since they claim it is good to
use for 6 months without refrigeration.

That reminds me, I really ought to order some paste while it is still
cold outside.

It's really worth storing the paste in a fridge. You can even still
use the same dispensing needle after if it has stood for months. And
you get a fridge for snacks and cold drinks at your bench, can't beat
that!

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:03 PM, alienrelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> Wow! What the heck? $12 shipping by UPS ground to Washington State for one tube. Gold plated shipping containers?
>
> Steve Greenfield
>

Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Al Daniel

What are your suggestions for working with mechanically cut PCB patterns for SMDs? In this case, the solder pads are separated by routed valleys, making it difficult to position the SMD onto the pads and difficult to add a solder mask. I have been applying a minimum and uniform amount of solder to each pad with a pointed iron. The IC is then positioned, with some difficulity, on top of the rounded pads and tacked in position by applying pressure with the pointed iron to two pins. Once this step is accepted, the remaining pins are rather easily soldered by applying pressure with a wide-tip iron. However, care is taken to not let any solder get into the valleys between the pads, for it is difficult to remove. Your comments?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Sz G

In fact, the site claims it "ships on ice". All the stuff looks quite professional there but I'm reluctant to believe all the marketing bull**** on the page Henry linked. Most of their equipment isn't unique at all maybe except the paste itself (I'd be happy to stand corrected; I can't determine the shelf life of these materials since I (and probably the most of us?) store them in the fridge along with some adhesives, cyanoacrylate, alkaline batteries etc. There's no room for cold drinks :) ).

I really don't like when a manufacturer tries to exaggerate their products' qualities well beyond reality. No matter where David Jacks worked, an inexperienced buyer will think Zephyrtronics actually invented hot air reflow.

Gabor
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 5:22:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>  >
>>      
> 
>Some paste needs to be shipped refrigerated, and express.
>>The Zeph paste should not need that, since they claim it is good to
>>use for 6 months without refrigeration.
>
>>That reminds me, I really ought to order some paste while it is still
>>cold outside.
>
>>It's really worth storing the paste in a fridge. You can even still
>>use the same dispensing needle after if it has stood for months. And
>>you get a fridge for snacks and cold drinks at your bench, can't beat
>>that!
>
>>ST
>
>>On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:03 PM, alienrelics <alienrelics@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Wow! What the heck? $12 shipping by UPS ground to Washington State for one tube. Gold plated shipping containers?
>>>
>>> Steve Greenfield
>>>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Philip Pemberton

Leon Heller wrote:
> I drag-solder the leads with a mini-hoof Metacal cartridge. It's just as 
> quick and no cleaning up with desolder braid is needed. Plenty of gel 
> flux is essential.

Where have you been getting gel-type solder flux from? I've never seen 
it in any of the UK distributor catalogues (Farnell, Rapid, etc.)

I've been using the Circuitworks (ITW-Chemtronics) and Electrolube flux 
pens and the Electrolube SMFL flux spray -- they worked OK, but the gel 
flux I "liberated" from a Chipquik kit worked even better...

-- 
Phil.
ygroups@...
http://www.philpem.me.uk/

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Sz G

I don't know if it helps, but I used concave tips (a chisel tip with a slight depression in the flat part to utilize the capillary effect) to solder .5 mm pitch AVX connectors a while ago. Absolutely no hassle, but the tip wears out sooner than other types do.

Gabor
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>From: Al Daniel <dantrol@optilink.us>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 5:23:40 PM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>  >
>>      
> 
>What are your suggestions for working with mechanically cut PCB patterns for SMDs? In this case, the solder pads are separated by routed valleys, making it difficult to position the SMD onto the pads and difficult to add a solder mask. I have been applying a minimum and uniform amount of solder to each pad with a pointed iron. The IC is then positioned, with some difficulity, on top of the rounded pads and tacked in position by applying pressure with the pointed iron to two pins. Once this step is accepted, the remaining pins are rather easily soldered by applying pressure with a wide-tip iron. However, care is taken to not let any solder get into the valleys between the pads, for it is difficult to remove. Your comments?
>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Leon Heller

On 12/03/2010 17:38, Philip Pemberton wrote:
> Leon Heller wrote:
>> I drag-solder the leads with a mini-hoof Metacal cartridge. It's just as
>> quick and no cleaning up with desolder braid is needed. Plenty of gel
>> flux is essential.
>
> Where have you been getting gel-type solder flux from? I've never seen
> it in any of the UK distributor catalogues (Farnell, Rapid, etc.)
>
> I've been using the Circuitworks (ITW-Chemtronics) and Electrolube flux
> pens and the Electrolube SMFL flux spray -- they worked OK, but the gel
> flux I "liberated" from a Chipquik kit worked even better...
>

I get it from Warton Metals:

http://www.warton-metals.co.uk/

They lost the details of my first order (they'd just started using 
on-line ordering). When I phoned them to find what happened to the items 
I'd ordered they supplied them for nothing.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by Stefan Trethan

Very fishy that they claim unrefrigerated life but ship on ice....

There's a separate fridge for adhesives and crap, none of that stuff
gets into mine! It would soon smell like a chemical factory and
storing food in it would be lethal. The solder paste is held in a
glass jar with the lid on tightly, in the medicine shelf which has a
separate lid, so I'm fairly sure I won't poison myself.

The glue and chemicals fridge is a right mess, I kept my paste there
at first but it's just too disgusting and people kept upsetting the
syringes so they no longer pointed down. Everything is coated in that
white cyanoacrylate haze and smells really dangerous (probably is).
You know how it is if too many people use some equipment and nobody
has a sharp eye on it things get out of hand really quickly.

I completely agree with you on the marketing at Zephyrtronics, It's
well over the top.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Sz G <the6hu8b@...> wrote:
> In fact, the site claims it "ships on ice". All the stuff looks quite professional there but I'm reluctant to believe all the marketing bull**** on the page Henry linked. Most of their equipment isn't unique at all maybe except the paste itself (I'd be happy to stand corrected; I can't determine the shelf life of these materials since I (and probably the most of us?) store them in the fridge along with some adhesives, cyanoacrylate, alkaline batteries etc. There's no room for cold drinks :) ).
>
> I really don't like when a manufacturer tries to exaggerate their products' qualities well beyond reality. No matter where David Jacks worked, an inexperienced buyer will think Zephyrtronics actually invented hot air reflow.
>
> Gabor
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?

2010-03-12 by piers@u-h-p.com

the paste i got from my local hobby place says 6 mo unrefrigerated, 12mo chilled. Assumed that was normal?

PG

---- Sent using a phone. 'Scuse the typos etc.

-original message-
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap SMD oven, anyone?
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
Date: 13/03/2010 05:58

Very fishy that they claim unrefrigerated life but ship on ice....

There's a separate fridge for adhesives and crap, none of that stuff
gets into mine! It would soon smell like a chemical factory and
storing food in it would be lethal. The solder paste is held in a
glass jar with the lid on tightly, in the medicine shelf which has a
separate lid, so I'm fairly sure I won't poison myself.

The glue and chemicals fridge is a right mess, I kept my paste there
at first but it's just too disgusting and people kept upsetting the
syringes so they no longer pointed down. Everything is coated in that
white cyanoacrylate haze and smells really dangerous (probably is).
You know how it is if too many people use some equipment and nobody
has a sharp eye on it things get out of hand really quickly.

I completely agree with you on the marketing at Zephyrtronics, It's
well over the top.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Sz G <the6hu8b@...> wrote:
> In fact, the site claims it "ships on ice". All the stuff looks quite professional there but I'm reluctant to believe all the marketing bull**** on the page Henry linked. Most of their equipment isn't unique at all maybe except the paste itself (I'd be happy to stand corrected; I can't determine the shelf life of these materials since I (and probably the most of us?) store them in the fridge along with some adhesives, cyanoacrylate, alkaline batteries etc. There's no room for cold drinks :) ).
>
> I really don't like when a manufacturer tries to exaggerate their products' qualities well beyond reality. No matter where David Jacks worked, an inexperienced buyer will think Zephyrtronics actually invented hot air reflow.
>
> Gabor
>

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